Mercury raises $300M Series C at $3.5B valuation, led by Sequoia, as startup banking heats up

him in the waiting room of ambitious founders. Welcome to the show, Ahmad. Thanks for joining. Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh it's always cool when you listen to your podcast and now you're on the other side and you get I love it. You're live. I'm so glad you've been listening. I I hope you've enjoyed the content.

Uh great to have you here. Can you give us a breakdown of introduce yourself, introduce Mercury, introduce what's going on today with the round. Yeah, I'm the co-founder and CEO of Mercury. Mercury provides banking uh to startups, e-commerce and professional services.

Uh we started in uh I guess we launched in April 2019. So relatively young company but you know a ton of startups use us especially after SVB uh and that kind of failure.

Uh and then yeah we just announcing our CVC uh Sequoia is leading the round with uh Spark and Marathon coming in as new investors and all of our previous kind of VCs are participating. So it's a 300 million round with the combination of primary and secondary. We're having Andrew Reed on the show later.

Who who at Sequoa did the deal? Who's the remaker? Yeah, Sonia Huang. Uh, she's she's been doing a ton in AI, including Langchain and Glean. Uh, and she knows a lot about fintech as well. So, excited to have her on board.

Talk about what it's like now raising these rounds that are in the hundreds of millions of dollar range. Is it still kind of feel very similar to the early days where you're just like, "Hey, let's grab coffee and hang out and you talk about the business. " And I haven't built a spreadsheet in years.

No, like I'm curious. It's like a surprisingly similar process to an earlier round, right? I did this in about four weeks. Uh and you know, at least as a founder, uh you're really still like pitching the big vision like how can this be, you know, another 100x, right?

Like that's that seems hard to believe like that's 350 billion, but like I want to do that. Uh uh it's the bit that's different is there's a lot more support, right? Like when I was doing a seed round, it's all by yourself.

Whereas now I have a finance team, I have a data science team and like a ton of stuff after that first meeting is done by them. It's like you know you have to have a great data room. You have to paint this picture of like where's the finances going in the next kind of year or two.

Uh but you still always have to tie it back to like how how is this going to be like you know even bigger and and what's the long-term vision and and bend that picture. Yeah. Just talk about uh this moment for you and the team. I mean the SVB crisis was obviously net positive.

It was, you know, tumultuous, but you guys benefited in a big way from it. Uh, but then there was also an entire maybe it felt like a 2-year period where it seemed like fintech was just over.

Everything in the public markets was so bad, but at the same time, interest rates were way up, so you guys were benefiting from that.

Does this feel like do you guys feel, you know, finally kind of like validated in this moment to say like, hey, we're getting, you know, repriced well beyond where you guys were at in in 21 and uh you're you're sort of like here to stay, it feels like. Uh so we've been profitable for 10 10 quarters.

Uh and profit folks love, you know, I really want to build a long-term company. I I really like the time where no one cares, right? Like I think that's a great time to Yeah. It was a great time to hire great people, right? Yeah, hiring in fintech was rare. There was amazing fintech talent out there.

Uh it was a great time because we didn't have that many competitors, right? Actually, I'm always worried that I think actually this is surprisingly uncompetitive space for how big the opportunity is. Uh like banking in the US makes $2 trillion. Like this is an insanely huge market.

Uh and I don't think it's like as competitive as like freaking B2B SAS, right? Like that's actually a smaller market. Uh so uh I like those quiet times. Uh but obviously it's nice to get like a big valuation boost. Our last round was at 1. 6 billion uh valuation. This is 3. 5.

Uh and you know we made a a ton of progress. Like we were a relatively small company. We had 140 employees back then. I think we announced we had about 40,000 customers. Now we have 200,000 customers. We almost 860 employees. Uh so we we made a lot of progress.

It's nice for I guess the world to see that and us to be able to talk about it publicly. How do you think about uh Mercury is in many ways the the bank of X, right? Like it's almost like it's it'd be hard to have been on X the past few years and not be aware of Mercury. Like you have a big following, all this stuff.

How do you think about reaching founders that maybe aren't on on X and and kind of like scaling up, right?

Because every single day there's entrepreneurs that that walk into banks and they are building a startup and they just walk into Chase or Bank of America and they create an account and how do you think about kind of reaching that next generation that that maybe isn't sort of hyper online or or uh already in the community?

Yeah, we've been kind of, you know, I've always thought about Mercury as targeting digital entrepreneurs. So that's beyond startups, that's e-commerce, that's professional services, like anyone that spends all their time in front of a computer to run their business.

Uh And these people, you know, most entrepreneurs have friends that are entrepreneurs or they are in communities. So it's not just on X, right? Like it's Facebook groups, it's uh YouTube, it's Reddit, etc. And like Mercury is all over those things as well, right?

Like we we more than 50% about 60% of our customers come through organic word of mouth distribution. And that's not just in the startup space, that's in all of these spaces. Uh and our NPS is 82. So customers really like Mercury. No, no one's out there saying like go use Chase. It's the best customer experience ever.

Like you'll love it, right? Like Mercury kind of stands so far apart from kind of these incumbent banks that uh we are still growing from that core word of mouth. Uh but we do invest in other things as well like we built a bunch of kind of virality into the into the app and the product.

So you know last year we launched invoicing and bill pay and part of that is that those are like viral payments methods, right? If you send an invoice via Mercury, often you're sending it to another business.

So obviously they can just pay it but they can also sign up to Mercury and the next time they have to pay an invoice it's instantaneous and like super easy to do.

Uh so trying to think about these things as like creating this kind of payments network that like every business and and now consumer as well is part of uh creates this kind of like added uh kind of Yeah. Talk about focus maybe.

I think people had been asking for mercury sort of personal banking for so long and it was an obvious opportunity for you guys. It felt like something you could have sprinted towards and launch.

How did you, you know, what was kind of the thought process there of was there a certain scale that you wanted to be at before you launched personal or or what did that look like? Yeah, it was definitely like the biggest feature request for us for a long time.

Um, yeah, it's m it's definitely a matter of like execution, doing it at the right time. Uh, you know, we did it with a relatively small team. I'm a big fan of kind of doing these new things with like initially fairly small teams and seeing if it works and then investing. So, I think we had a fivep person team.

We one of the drivers was we found this amazing guy Alexi uh who previously had had his own kind of uh startup Neo Bank in the consumer space and then he he helped Albert launched their consumer bank and then did the same at Mercury.

So yeah, having great leaders uh what's the term Keith Roa likes having like shotgun barrels or whatever uh is part of like knowing when the right time is. Uh but but yeah, you know, we we do a lot but we also try to be really focused, right?

like banking and doing an amazing banking experience for for startups is the core and that's where we have like the biggest investment. Can you talk a little bit about uh underwriting at the earlier stage these online businesses? How is that different? Is it riskier?

How are you thinking about the risk profile of like a non-brickandmortar customer coming on the platform? Yeah. I mean we don't give them loans. So like underwriting isn't necessarily about like u credit risk but it's about like KYC and KYB. Like how do you really know someone?

Uh definitely startups are actually easier right like people have a pretty big digital presence uh they have better websites they have a LinkedIn they have X etc uh and you know their descriptions and their VCs like if a you know if a Sequoia funed company shows up you can underwrite that very quickly uh I think it's a lot trickier when it is like a you know professional service consultancy and they don't have online presence and like you have to kind of uh learn more about it quickly.

uh there we think of like a tiered approach, right? Like we uh if we understand less, we'll ask you more questions, ask for, you know, proof of address or uh that kind of thing. And uh and then we end up setting like kind of lower limits and things like that as well. So a startup will have a lower risk here.

We'll give them a lot of flexibility. A company that we know less of will, you know, initially uh they won't be able to send like a million dollar wire. they'll have to kind of earn their way to building up the our understanding and the kind of like uh features we give them. Yeah.

How do what do you think is the future of uh venture debt? You know, over the last year it's been in the news because of some sort of high-profile shutdowns, but obviously it's an important tool.

Does that is that like you know become a meaningful part of the business over time or is it just something that you guys want to have available but you know it's not a not a huge focus? Yeah, venture debt is actually like a smallish market.

Like people talk about it in the VC community, but even SVB, which you know, by far was the biggest SB venture debt provider, I think they had like a $7 billion portfolio uh when uh when they failed. Uh so I think there's a good way to do it and a bad way to do it.

A good way to do it is like you're you revenue generating company and you know maybe there's some cash flow need because your AR takes a while or you have some equipment etc. and then you do it. That's great.

I think the cases where I don't love it uh is yeah you're some AI company that's not making any money today and you want to like go extend your uh extend your kind of fund raise and uh runway by like 20% or something.

I think in those situations like when you run out of that you know as you start getting into that 20% or like it's it reduces your options right like when you have a fund raise a VC fund raise and you're in that last 20% sure you do layoffs you kind of rep prioritize you cut your founder salary you do whatever the hell it takes to survive uh but if you have like a kind of this fixed burn rate that like is caused by venture debt that's not a healthy position to be in so I think if you use it in the right way it can be quite beneficial you know my last company Yeah, I raised a million dollar venture then and like it saved the company and actually like got us to profitability.

So, it's really important for us and I know I think people kind of like uh with like most things on the internet at least like people tend to say these extremes like never do it blah blah blah. I think it's like is the right thing at the right time. That'll be the capture we use on this. We do provide venture debt.

Yeah. When we post this clip, it'll be like breaking news, never use venture debt ever. Watch for the full reaction. I had a question about interest rates. Uh, do you want to go first or go for that and then I have a Yeah.

I I want to talk about how interest rates affect your business and what how you think startups could prepare for this. I mean, high interest rates, you're making more money on interest. Low interest rates, there's more business formation, more venture capital flowing in. Is it does it just net out where you don't care?

Do you have a preference? What what's your view on interest rates right now? I mean, obviously, we can't control it. So, under every circumstance, we'll try to we'll try to win. Uh I think the ideal interest rate for us is like something like 3%.

I think there's lots of kind of VC funding and uh business formation at 3%. Uh but we also have the opportunity to make money on our deposits better at 3%. Um and you know for us and I think most startups like I think you want to operate like whatever the macroeconomy is and like try to set yourself up in that way.

So you know we we grew a lot when interest rates were zero especially during kind of the big big bubble.

Uh and you know there was definitely like a struggle in terms of growth during like some of that 2022 period but you know since then it's picked up and we've obviously grown our market share and things like that as well. Uh you've invested in hundreds of other startups.

I imagine the first of every month is pretty chaotic in your inbox. You're just getting you know flooded. You're like right I have another 300 uh emails to get through. Uh talk about your sort of personal investing process.

I imagine you you have such an amazing you have one of the craziest networks in startups because so many of uh you know the best companies in the valley are running on Mercury. Uh but talk about your personal process.

You're busy running a multi-billion dollar you know business that's doing you know hundreds of millions of of actual uh Ibida. Uh at this point, are you ever making investments where it's just, you know, a good friend or a founder you back says, "Hey, you should invest in this company.

" You just email them, say, "Sure, I'm in. " Or is it, you know, what does your process actually look like? I talk to every company I invest in. Um I do I probably do like 20-ish this year. I've done about 300 all together.

Uh you know, main reason I do it is I just like talking to entrepreneurs and hearing like these crazy fun ideas.

like I've done a bunch in space and defense and things like that where you know it's very new to me very different from fintech and it's always like a great learning experience and and I really want to give back to entrepreneurs like I've been doing startups since 2006 and uh I think it's a great way to actually be helpful to people uh but you know if I invest I really want to believe in them like my my rough criteria is if this person texts me at like 5:00 p.

m. Am I going to be excited to like do a call with them or am I going to be annoyed that I have to talk to them? So like I definitely want to do that 30 minutes to like have like a bar of saying, okay, you know, I won't be excited because I like I love this space and I want to help this person out.

So uh yeah, that's definitely a key. Uh and yeah, uh yeah, it tends to be a broad set of kind of things and I'm still an active active investor. So hit me up if you if you're raising.

No, it's amazing that it's actually mo most people have to like really justify, oh yeah, I'm angel investing and it's gonna, you know, benefit me in these ways and maybe get some return, but for you it's like hardcore customer development feedback, uh, talking to customers and and maybe you invest as well.

So, very cool. You got anything else? Yeah. Uh, can you talk about how AI is impacting the business? I'd love to know. There's the boring stuff, which I feel like is just LLMs are great at text processing. I'm sure you're there's a lot of stuff that's no longer paperwork.

Maybe you're scanning documents, OCRing them, throwing them through LLMs. Is that working? And then uh how does that compare to just having your engineers be more performant because they have cursor and cloud code and devon cognition in the mix? Uh what what does the AI strategy look like right now?

Yeah, I think the most exciting kind of short-term stuff for us is the back office stuff. So, you know, my part of the thesis of starting Mercury was like what if the marginal cost of serving the next user is zero, right?

Like if you think about a normal incumbent bank, like you're walking into the bank branch, you're talking to someone, you know, everything is like actually quite expensive for them to serve a new user and that's why they have these onrisk fees for small businesses, right?

Like it's just hard for them to make money from like a small business. For us, it's like how do we get it to be a database row? Uh but it turns out like there is a lot of customer support, there's a lot of compliance, there's a lot of onboarding and a a lot of that is like textbased stuff.

So you how do we make it so if someone submits a utility bill to prove their address we can like automatically process that and not just it's not just cheaper it's also instantaneous right like instead of waiting 3 days for a human to look at it we can give them a great answer straight away uh so lots of applications and compliance risk uh and onboarding and uh support and lots of it we have rolled out already lots of it we are rolling out I'm really excited about it I think it's like a genuine improvement for customers uh you know engineering productivity I I haven't seen as much of a boost as I would like to see.

I think it's really good for making an app from scratch. Uh when you have a huge codebase with that's all interlin, it's just not as good. And we also built in like a weird programming language hasll. Uh which has been great.

Amazing engineers, but I think a lot of these kind of coding LLMs are not trained on HASLL as well. So like when we were like a late adopter at least on the back end side. Um and then lastly, I think the user features uh there's some interesting stuff coming.

Uh I'm not a fan of just like shove a chatbot in front of it as an interface. Like I think it's easier to like have structured data and be able to do things. Uh but we've done some stuff around search and OCR. Uh and I think like in the long run, right?

Like if we have your finances, if we have your financial workflows, we have all that data. Uh there's lots of ways to help you automate your business, help you help you speed up getting insights and things like that.

So yeah, I think there'll be lots of like kind of really meaningful ways to incorporate AI that that customers like. Yeah. On that last last note there, are you guys thinking about uh LLM uh result optimization? You guys benefit, you said something like 60% of your growth and new customers are from word of mouth.

Obviously LLMs are just another form of word of mouth because they're just sort of like taking all this, you know, content and then, you know, sort of organizing it and channeling it. How are you guys thinking about that or is it just happening by default?

You mean like a founder that goes to I go to chatbt and says what bank should I use? What bank should I use and you hope it says Mercury? Yeah. Yeah. I did a I did a tweet or Z or whatever they call it now.

Uh and you know we've got a graph of like how our number of signups is growing with LM and it's like fully exponential especially in the last two three months.

uh still a small base uh but you know if the growth rate continues it'll be significant and yeah I'm using chat GPT to ask about services and what should I use uh and mercury actually just naturally gets shown up right because so much of the content is like this kind of community based so if you ask for it like what's what's a bank I should use for my startup like you know mercury is like likely to come up uh one thing that we're I'm thinking about is like how how are you even more active on these communities right so obviously I'm on X and I'm very active there but a lot our conversations that happening on Reddit are not like with me or someone at Mercury kind of participating.

So I do think you can change the sentiment and like improve your visibility by being active in communities. And I think that's like a big part of like how you influence LLMs. Uh I think like you want to basically create like real content, right? Like it's a new type of SEO.

This is like community based kind of SEO and recommendation. And I think that's like uh that like probably genuinely aligns with like building a good online community anyway. It makes no sense. Well, thanks for stopping by. Congratulations on the round. Big milestone. Massive for you and the whole team.

And yeah, good luck to you. We'll talk to you soon. Talk soon. Um, on the Fed rates issue, he wouldn't take a stance, but thankfully that's why we have Poly Market. Poly Market has an open market on what the Fed will decide at their May 7th meeting. This is the FOMC meeting.

It's 41 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes, and 27 seconds away. Um, I know you've been counting it down, Jordy. What do you think Poly Market's expecting right now? They are they the options are 50 basis point cut, 25% 25 basis point cut or no change.

The market's pricing no change at 86% but they are expecting a 25% basis point cut in on the next meeting June 18th. Um and then it's wild the uh the volume on on this is pretty substantial. There's eight almost 9 million of volume just on this one poly market. Wow.

So yeah useful tool if you're if you're monitoring rates. Uh he what uh I think Ahmad's probably sleeping pretty well these days with an extra 300 million in the bank and that's right he's probably sleeping on an eight folks go to eightle.

com nights that fuel your best days turn any bed into the ultimate sleeping experience do you have a snore sound on there or something just the gong okay the wake up to the gong wake up I would I bet there's a way to to add a custom custom sound in here but uh we also got the studio giblly photo of the eight sleep looks fantastic on the previous slide.

Uh I I really enjoyed making these and yeah, they should throw that up on social. Throw it I'll send it over. Uh I got a 95 last night. My uh eight sleep autopilot made adjustments to the temperature of the bed overnight to boost my REM sleep by a whopping 17%. So double digit increase. You're doing great.

Uh thank you to Eight Sleep for supporting the show. You can get an eight sleep by going to eightleep. com/tvpn. Get $350 off your pod. Just do it. Totally clipping the audio. Someone just had to take out their their headphones for that one. Rough. Uh well uh let's let's let's move through some of the timeline.

Then we got more guests joining in about nine minutes. Uh Salma says, "Okay, GPT4 cooked. I fear I generated this creative ad for Bick pen. The prompt was create Bick creative ad. Add the pen as a hair accessory used to tie models hair up. Compelling message. Wow. She didn't even say what ad copy to use. Yep.

And it says twisting hair since 1945. And that's a pretty good ad. Now, with these things, you know, you're in this like uncanny valley where it's possible that the prompt was a little bit more like you never know if somebody did a little bit more work on the front end, right?

This is this is what's happening with like the vibe coding thing where people are saying, "Oh, I just vibe coded this game. " And it's like, they actually spent more time on it. But I think this is real. I I I think this really was the prompt. And I think if you went and tested this right now, you would get there.

And it's photoreal, not uncanny valley at all, and it looks great. And uh yeah, if I was Bick Penn, I'd be printing this out and putting it in the New York Times. Send it to the printer. Send it to the printer. Um anyway, uh it's a knockout dragout fight for the next format of Studio Gibli.

Web Weaver Deep Fates is advocating for uh Rick and Morty anime, which is terrifying in my opinion. I don't know if we can even show the full image, but it's very funny and it does look like uh like Rick and Morty. Uh, I liked this studio Gibli of the uh New York Stock Exchange on the next uh on the next slide.

Um, and it reminded me of our sponsor Public Investing for those who take it seriously in multi investing industryleading yields and they're trusted by a million folks. Go over to public. com and sign up. Uh, fantastic. I like that one. Uh, Theo says, "Sir, another giblified historic photos.

" I wasn't done doing an ad for public. Oh, you were? Okay, all right, that's enough. Go to public. com. Thank you to public for supporting the show. People are having a lot of fun with these Studio Giblly photos. There's George Bush receiving the information about 911. I actually don't think uh good effort.

I don't think they they did uh W that well on this. It just doesn't really look like him. It's the right orientation. seen some of it. I've seen it botch the likeness a couple times thing a couple times. Well, the Fiverr illustrators still have a job, I guess. Yep.

Um, Mometic Theory Mass, who uh we've been has been on the show before for that uh fun swing project he did. Uh, if chat got if chat GPT has rejected giblifying multiple of your ideas, you're not trying hard enough. You were running into that yesterday. Uh, big issues.

one giflified his his uh his swing which is very nice to see. Um Sam Alman says tremendous alpha in images and chatbt right now. It's very true. The new version of images and chatbt is still rolling out so please try again later today if you don't have one. He says it's an incredible technology product.

I remember seeing some of the first images come out of the model and having a hard time uh thinking that they were really made by AI. We think people will love it and I think they have loved it. They're really enjoying Yeah.

This is why I was saying this is, you know, very clearly sort of Sputnik uh Uber for dogs kind of moment for AI. Yeah, exactly. It's like Sputnik of iPhone moments with little sprinkled in. Sprinkle a little deepseek moment in there. Yeah. Uh should we talk about Nikita Beer? He's making moves. He's over at Salana now.

Officially an adviser. Yeah, officially an adviser. Not a full-time employee, but uh cool moment. I think he had been a pretty big critic of crypto historically. He he went on this sort of uh generational uh [ __ ] posting run where he just kept saying like I'm going to I'm going to launch a coin. Lunchcoin never did.

I don't think he ever did. Okay. Well, maybe it's coming soon then. And uh anyways, uh big big pickup for Salana. Yeah. Uh Salana, especially after the rough and it's just like a new it's a new surface area for Nikita.

It's, you know, undoubtedly one thing that we know is some of the best social products or many of the best social social products are providing entertainment and crypto is very good at providing entertainment, right? Yep.

Anybody that's sort of invested in one of these tokens, it's like you're watching the chart all day long. You're following it. There's sort of this like team oriented element to it.

So, and yeah, I mean when you think about the the hope for pretty much every cryptocurrency project over the last decade has been let's cross into the average users on the consumer side, not purely just as an investment vehicle, but let's help developers create crypto projects like Poly Market that really really broke through during the election cycle and was just a news source for people basically even though there were crypto rails underneath.

I'm sure Salana wants to power that and that's what Nikita has been writing about online for years talking about how to grow consumer apps and uh spec specifically take advantage of a bunch of different APIs and iOS figure out how to link contact books and whatnot all techniques growth hacks that should benefit Salana if it's building its own apps or yeah developers in the ecosystem and so Grock summarizes it saying this development viewed as a significant boost for Salana, particularly due to recent favorable changes like regulatory clarity, increased app store openness, and the upcoming launch of Salana's mobile device Seeker.

The community is highly optimistic, seeing this as a critical moment for Salana to expand in the mobile app market with expectations that consumer crypto applications will see accelerated growth.

And so, uh, Nikita writes, "While the jury is not out yet, Salana has the fundamental building blocks for something to break out on mobile, and certainly many apps are making headway. So, today I'm joining Salana as an adviser to help select companies and la uh, help select companies launch and grow their apps.

So, let's hear from Nikita. Some personnel news on the timeline. You'll love to see it. Some people making moves. Spoke with Nikita last night over DMs. We're going to get him on the show at some point, which would be cool. Um, and speaking of crypto coins, we have massive drama going down on Hyperlid involving Jelly.

So, for those that don't know, Hyperlid is a sort of decentralized exchange. It's very popular right now. It's already publicly listed itself. Trades at around a 14 billion valuation.

Uh and so this one is in there's some drama involving uh Jelly Jelly which is a token that was launched by Slow Ventures portfolio company. So Sam Lesson was was helping them out with it. Uh which remember we covered it sort of ran up to mult I think $300 million valuation in 24 hours or something crazy like that.

It came back down to Earth. Um, it's been at a $20 million market cap and sometime in the last 24 hours a trader opened a massive $6 million short position on Jelly Jelly.

Oh, did I just need to pause you because like when you say like as I process this like jelly jelly like Sam has posted some images of what the app is supposed to do, this new social format. I'm like, h, you know, could work. It's kind of ridiculous. Like I I like people taking shots at wild apps.

You tell me it's a $20 million market cap company. I'm like, yeah, like that's awesome. like that sounds perfect for this. Like it's a seedstage company. Like go for it guys. Like I'm in full support. If you tell me the token's trading at like 20 billion, I'm like okay let's maybe let's pump the brakes. Is this real?

Um but it's so funny that you can have a $20 million market cap startup essentially like a YC stage startup in terms of size and then someone can come and take a $6 million short position out on you. That's like it's a only in crypto is this possible and it's very very weird dynamic.

But take me through what's happening with Hyperlid. you know, they're getting a Slack message. Hey, somebody's shorting us with size. Yeah, it's like we're actually just a preede we're a preede company about 500 companies. Yeah, we're being shorted with size. Actually, shorted with size.

Uh, so the trader del deliberately self liquidated themselves by pumping Jelly Jelly's price on chain, essentially forcing himself out of the trade. Hyperlid was left holding the toxic short position, currently at a massive loss to $10 million P&L.

Jelly Jelly pump from a $10 million market cap to 50 million in under an hour due to the forced squeeze. Hyperliquid could face full liquidation if Jelly Jelly races reaches $150 million market cap, which would be a 3x away. Y market is watching closely. But is that is that that big of a deal for Hyperliquid?

I mean, we were talking about this earlier. It seemed like 14 billion organization or coin. It seems like yes, obviously losing 10 million or even more would not be great, but uh it seems sustainable. This doesn't seem like a true run on the bank situation. Yeah.

And I'm looking at Jelly Jelly right now and it appears what's the market cap that they are still at around 20. So Hyperlid seems to be doing just fine. So uh massive drama but not a full crisis. Yeah, over at Jelly Jelly. Very interesting though.

Yeah, we'll have to talk to Sam about it and get this before we get our next guest in here. Uh, he's actually ready. He's ready. Let's bring him in. Let's