Bucky Moore joins Lightspeed on day one and explains why AI wrappers are becoming much more than wrappers

with him. He has been on a podcasting road show. Yep. Uh, road show for sure. He's been making the rounds. Making the rounds. That's great. What else do we say? Anyway, let's bring him in to the studio and talk to Bucky more. How you doing, Bucky? There he is. Oh, man. Great to be here with you both. Fantastic.

The Temple of Technology. Uh, yeah. Give us a break. We're stopped today and then I I promise I'm done going on podcasts. Oh, yeah. You've been on quite the tour. Honestly, road show. Like four podcasts a day for the next 40 days. Just run it up. Do them all. just wind up on like Hawkua and like Yeah.

Why is Bucky on Bill Maher today? That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you shouldn't be able to listen to pod a podcast in the month of May without having Bucky join at least for five minutes. I want to get confused with the politics. Do Tucker, but then do Pod Save America and no one knows where your politics align.

Just talk about early stage venture, right? Yeah. But I'm I'm particularly excited to be here today because I think you guys have been hitting on some really big ideas in this podcast just in the past couple weeks alone.

I'd love to just kind of riff on those a little bit with you because I think they're so important and I want to encourage you guys. And so I think that comes to the first one that comes to mind for me is this this sort of make hotel gyms great again uh moment you guys are having.

This is this is a really important discussion. It's not being had anywhere but here. There's clearly a hole in the market where someone needs to build an insurance product that allows for those folks hitting leg day on Friday to max out at above 500 lb. Yep. It's just not happening out there. So this is a big problem.

I'm glad you're talking about it. It's a big market failure. It's the kind of thing that maybe it's not a venture, it's not a place that venture dollars should go, but maybe a group of investors like should say like, hey, for the good of America, we need to there needs to be a company. I think everything's venture now.

There will never be enough venture dollars. I think we need to put this firmly in the venture bucket and then do I think it could be a fit in one of these uh, you know, sort of AI turnaround funds that are being spun up by a lot of the big platforms. Like it's it's just got to happen, right?

It's It's gone on for way too long and all of us travel a lot and and we need to uh we need to be dialed in, especially as professional yappers like BCs and podcasters. Yeah. I mean, maybe maybe we just boycott all travel until the dumbbells get up to 100. The economy will collapse.

We'll we'll start to have a conversation at 100 and then go from there. We'll start the We'll start the negotiation at 100. Yeah. Yeah. Like like a trade war, a real standoff between the capital allocators and the luxury hotels.

This is exactly so I think it's our cross to bear and I just wanted to say I'm glad you guys are talking about it. Yeah, I feel like there's an early stage bet here. You AI powered, you put cameras in the gyms and then and then the underwriting is based on the form of the of the average gym goer.

And so if you just have like mass monsters in there all day, they're just throwing around the 100. No one's getting injured. Take those insurance rates down. Hardware offtheshelf AI models. It's doable. It's doable. There's an infamous list VCs for Kamla. Yes. What if we had VCs for dumbbells?

We could throw that up today potentially. I think we could get a 100 signatures in in 24 hours. And unclear how much overlap there is between those two lists, but it's a good idea. It's a big tent. It's a big tent. The mass monsters. It's a big tent. It's a big tent. Yeah. Get get them all in there. Why not?

And look, I think before before we talk shop, I also just have to make sure I I uh really reinforce the what you guys are doing here. Really trying to turn LA and more broadly Southern California into the Silicon Valley of media. like this is a this is a gargantuan effort but a very important one.

And I think you have this foundation emerging over in Malibu where you have these esteemed podcasters like the Rick Rubins, the Andrew Hubman's, the Jordy Hazes kind of settling in. So it feels like you're well on your way. And the last thing I'd say on this Yeah. No, go ahead.

I I just think it's important that we dream a little bigger than that, right? In the sense that that Southern California is the the closest thing to the Amalfi coast that we have in America. Yeah. you look across to Catalina, it's our Capri. There's no super yachts. There's no super yacht. There's no luxury experience.

Like, we got to fix this. And so, I just I just want to encourage you guys to keep going on that and and keep pushing. And I think it'll lead it'll lead to some really great things for what I think is all three of our our hometown of Southern California. Yeah.

I mean, the natural evolution is, you know, potenti we had 100% tariffs on foreign films get potentially announced yesterday. I don't know how real it is, but I mean a natural next step would be, you know, 200 300% tariffs on foreign podcasts. Yeah.

Um and to really kind of like, you know, generally I'm a free trade guy, but when it comes to podcasting, you know, I want to support we were in Ohhigh this weekend and we noticed that it was just devoid of high finance and there wasn't a single Goldman Sachs office or high frequency trading operation there.

Uh so we announced our campaign to save Ohhigh and bring finance to Ohhigh and really uh get the cubicles there, get the stimulants flowing, get these folks to work hard and really save Ohigh. But we need we should do that for uh Catalina. We should save Catalina from the problem of boats under 50 ft. Yeah. Yeah.

Because it's a big problem out there. Most of the fishing fishing small notoriously unreliable. You might have a good year have a you know a lot of lot of yield and then you might have a down year.

Whereas hedge funds, you know, figure out a way to to to generate, you know, alpha in any market condition, stock the ocean with new fish to to hunt. And related to this, Augustus was talking a little bit about what to do with Alcatra, right?

I mean, who isn't a mega yacht owner in San Francisco that wouldn't want to bring their boat into the San Francisco Bay and enjoy what Alcatra has to offer. So, I think there's another dimension we can kind of take the Alcatraz conversation that uh sort of aligns with what Catalina has in terms of its potential.

So, there's a lot of good work to do here and I just want to say I appreciate you spearheading this effort. Yeah, there was kind of a controversial post uh from uh was it Christina uh over at Bane Capital, right?

She was saying that uh Alcatra should be a Four Seasons resort where you pull up in a fancy water taxi to White Lotus style, not a federal prison, but I mean a lot of people were firing back being like this would obviously be better as like an Aman and instead of a water taxi pulling up in a super yacht.

I haven't heard of a VC going to a Ford season in about decade. Yeah. Uh but both these places have a lot of potential. Yeah. Yeah. What what is your top pick for for Alcatraz uh re revitalization? I'm not sold on the idea of reopening the prison.

Anyone who's taken a tour of Alcatraz realizes it doesn't look like The Rock uh the movie that is, which is which is very disappointing if you're a fan of The Rock in that shower scene where it all starts.

But uh I I think this I think this fivestar destination in the making idea that Christina floated again upleveling the Four Seasons to the Aman uping water taxis to super yachts like I think this might be the best idea at least floating out there right now.

I like the idea of turning it into um what are the what are the regions in the Mediterranean that like don't or not not Mediterranean Caribbean that don't really have any financial sort of rules like like tax haven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So if we turned it into a place that VCs could generally solicit, you know, it should be the Puerto Rico of the Bay. Yeah. Yeah. You should and if you go there, but you have to spend six months in a day on the island. Yeah.

If you we're trying to insure the crypto industry, so you know, all those folks living their life in Puerto Rico right now, this might be the answer. So yeah, it really should. Keep pushing these big ideas. Somebody's got to do it. And I think you guys are doing a really good job. Yeah. I love it. Amazing.

Uh how's your how's your first uh real day on the job today, right? Yeah, change doesn't happen often in this industry. So, it's been really exciting. It kind of feels like the first day of school or something where I'm just meeting a bunch of people I've never met before, getting up to speed on how we do things here.

And there's, you know, a lot of similarities in how the firm operates relative to where I was at Kleiner Perkins. But given the the global footprint and just the the scale of the firm, there's there's a a bit more process that we that we use to run run our operations here that I'm kind of getting used to.

But super excited about this opportunity. I mean, I think it's just such an incredible time to be investing right now.

And uh given we're kind of in the midst of this super cycle, I'm just really really excited to kind of hit the ground running here at Lightseed and and uh make the most of the opportunity in front of us.

And and it's a pretty big change in terms of like your actual focus because I always thought of you as like the growth guy at KP and now you're early stage. Is that right? Is that a correct characterization? So Everett would be the growth guy at KP.

But I think what's unique about KP is we all we preside over the growth and venture funds together, right? So every every investor makes growth investments, every investor makes venture investments. And for me, my roots have always been early stage.

I love, you know, pounding the pavement, going to Stanford, figuring out who that next postoc is that's going to start a company, figuring out who those amazing people inside of these juggernaut companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are kind of those next great founders.

And I think the tension for me has always been like how do you put your best foot forward on early stage while also running running growth stuff down.

And so here what I'm really excited about is we've got a dedicated growth team and I can really go back to focusing on those early stage roots of where I started and that was a big big driver for me about why I was so excited about this opportunity.

Is there some sort of like how would you how would you define the delineation between growth and early stage at light speeded specifically?

Is it like certain round size, certain valuation, certain just like you're getting out an Excel model for the first time, so the growth guys have Excel installed and the the the early stage team hasn't touched it in years. Yeah.

I mean, I think that's a fair depiction of it in the sense that if there's real venture risk to a company's standing in terms of like a total loss of capital is a possibility. There isn't a ton of repeatability in revenue generation or how they put product in customers hands.

I think that feels a lot more like like a venture type of investment.

Whereas if there is that sort of repeatability which for certain companies especially in AI can come very early in their life given just the market pull that we're seeing setting aside quality of revenue and that whole debate uh you're you're you're starting to see more and more that uh these companies become growthstage companies very quickly.

So I think what I'm really excited to focus on here at Lightseed is like how do we get into those companies as early as possible because you know they can be six seven months old and suddenly it's a growth stage opportunity.

You've kind of missed the opportunity to get that venture exposure that really does at the end of the day drive a lot of the returns for this industry at least historically. Yeah. What what what is the shape of like these AI companies and where they fit between growth and venture?

Because I saw some some firms were putting open AI at 27 billion in venture which wound up being like a venture style bet like it, you know, it could have kind of zeroed with, you know, all the all the complexities around you're investing in a nonprofit at that point.

Like it it does have binary risk, but again, it's like almost 10xed or something. It's been like a venture style return very quickly. Uh on the same time, you have a lot of these very hyped uh AI companies that are maybe rappers would be the the negative critique.

They're generating a lot of revenue, but everyone's worried about churn and durability of that revenue. It reads like a growth stage company, but maybe it's more of a venture bet. How are you seeing the AI landscape kind of break down? Yeah.

So, so to the question about OpenAI and that being a venture bet, I think it's even more clear today that the investors that participated in that round, again, there's a lot of dilution that comes along the way, but if you look at it just on like a multiple evaluation basis, there is absolutely a venture-like return to be made at that round.

And, you know, that's going to make a lot of funds that that went in big there. Yep.

Uh I think with respect to your to your second question about just like how these uh these rapper companies sort of fit into this box, the first thing I'd say is I think it's becoming clear when you look at the mature companies that were once referred to as rappers like the Harveys, the Cursors of the world, they're getting a lot fatter in terms of like how much of the tech stack they own themselves and how much differentiation you can argue that they build in.

So an example in Kurser's case is like they've been very publicly public about like the people they want to hire are people that can help them train models. Why is that? Well, um the the cost that they have to pay to the model providers, as we all know, is non-trivial.

Hence, this rapper distinction being a bit peorative in nature. Yeah, of course.

And so, what I think you're going to start to see happen is that these breakaway companies that were once AI rappers, once riding on top of the existing frontier model companies are going to get a lot fatter in that sense and start routing as much of the queries that their users have to models that they can that they can control and own and customize for that use case.

So, that's like one trend that I'm seeing. But I think to your point about the quality of revenue there, the the the capabilities that these products bring, especially those that kind of have a proumer adoption motion, are just so alluring and magical that everybody's going to try it, right?

And I and not everybody's going to stick around. Not everybody's going to stay with that product and they might go to another.

But from my perspective, I don't think as much about that because I just think the poll for these is so extraordinary that uh over time, you can think of that as a bit of a marketing cost and and and the quality of the revenue at steady state, especially as these products get brought into to larger companies uh go from kind of credit card swipes to invoicing customers.

You're going to see that these companies look a lot like traditional enterprise software businesses, but in theory, they're going to grow and compound at much much larger scales. Yeah.

How do you uh how do you think about the the competitive dynamics and differences between B2B sort of enterprise focused agents and consumer agents from from my point of view and evaluating a lot of consumer agent businesses lately a lot of my thinking comes down to okay this is not necessarily explicitly on enthropics or openai's roadmap but I can imagine you know six months from now they just sort of like immediately enable something like this where on the enterprise side when you look businesses like for example like Harvey something like that it's like okay there's a a ton of functionality and features that that to me feel like there's much more of a of a long-term kind of like value proposition and moat here but I'm curious to to to hear how you think about the differences so I I agree directly with everything that you said and with the caveat that I'm not a consumer investor it just it intuitively looks to me as though a consumer agent is only useful when it can do everything from planning my kids' birthday party to booking the flight, everyone's favorite example, to really just like automating away all these tedious tasks that I would otherwise be clicking through websites to accomplish.

And I just haven't seen a consumer agent that can really do that in a holistic sense yet. And I think someone will figure it out.

And I think that someone will most likely be one of the frontier model providers because this is just such a an important use case for them to get right to kind of maintain that core consumer mind share that they have today.

So on the consumer side, I my bet is on the the model providers, but I just haven't seen anything that that really lives up to the product that I would be compelled to use.

And I think like one distillation of that is like the moment you ask it to do something and it can't do it, you just get a little frustrated and and and it breeds distrust and you kind of move on and go back to doing it your way. So that's sort of where I see consumer today and where I see it going.

The enterprise side on the other hand is much much more interesting to me because I think you can create a tremendous amount of customer value by going narrow. So you mentioned Harvey, there are companies obviously doing this in in codegen and trying to abstract away parts of the software engineering process.

There are some really interesting companies that are kind of going after like the people that use data dog for example and helping automate the human intuition that goes into munching through all that data when your software breaks.

Uh there's obviously a ton of stuff happening kind of more on like the process automation side of the back office that like a financial institution or large enterprise would have.

So I think we're already seeing those products like hit runaway trajectories and the reason for that is because like the products work and they do a simple job really really well and I just think that's a lot harder to to deliver on the consumer side in a way that's compelling.

So my sense is the inflows that we see into like agent investing will be very heavily concentrated on the enterprise side. And I think that those companies are going to get very very big for the obvious reason that they're starting to chip away at human labor budgets rather than tool budgets.

Um and I'm seeing that with my own eyes today. Like I feel like I'm seeing the future every day when I meet these new companies that uh can can just they just have superhuman capabilities in terms of some of these enterprise tasks they're automating. Yeah. Uh yeah. What is your take on like the rapper meme?

It felt very it felt like a VC scop basically to me in the sense that like a lot of VCs were like hey maybe there's some rappers out there that um they might get steamrolled but they're going to be fantastic lifestyle businesses for a few years.

And then and then we had the wind surf rumor about, you know, kind of a a pretty fund returning uh result uh if that deal goes through.

Uh, and so it feels like is the wind surf acquisition potentially like a uh an Instagram moment where it kind of unlocks like a new mindset around the ability to go and build businesses in AI and it won't be totally winner take all or like the the uh the category as a whole will be there will be monopolies but not just one there will be pockets of value all over the place.

Credit to Bucky too. Windsurf angel investor really very nice proud angel investor before it was Windsurf and I have to give credit to my former partner Lee Marie for for leading that investment at Kleiner Perkins and she's uh amazing and uh you know it's it's a really special company.

So what I'd say about the Windsurf rumors if true to me what it foreshadows is this notion that there will be probably more chips to fall not just in codegen but also just more broadly in these like core categories of agentic work that the model providers are going to want to get into.

Um, OpenAI famously uh said anyone who's an investor in a company called Glean is not allowed to invest in OpenAI anymore. Um, Glean is an enterprise search product that kind of does retrieval over all of your business data and incorporates it into the model so you can gain intelligence from that.

U to me that's indicative of, you know, them looking at that piece of turf as something that they want to occupy.

So to the rapper SCOP question, like I would completely agree and you need to look no further than all the top funds voraciously trying to invest in as many of these companies as possible to know that that's a scop.

Um that said, I think that the scaffolding of why these companies are very very interesting to me is that ultimately the way you do retrieval of all this enterprise kind of first-party data is what makes these products like good versus great, right?

And so in a sense, if you look at Windsurf versus Cursor, Windsurf has figured out some tricks as to how to essentially pass the model better context and in doing so generate better outputs for their users.

And what that to me says is that like really the IP of these companies is going to largely be around how they do that retrieval and how they bring that data into the model at the right time and in the most efficient way.

So I think and given cogen is the most mature category you're kind of getting to see how that plays out.

So I think what you're going to start to see is like a the winning companies like be it illegal or cogen or you know any of these other categories that we've been talking about are going to be the ones that that figure out the best set of retrieval steps to give the models optimal context.

And then coming back to what I said earlier, I think these companies are going to look a lot fatter than the rapper uh name might indicate over time. And again, you're seeing this with Cursor Windsurf.

These companies are, you know, really out there trying to take more and more of a stack on versus just being like, you know, dependent entirely on a frontier model provider. I think it's safe to say the same about Harvey.

They recently published a a really interesting blog post that kind of shows the architecture of their of their app in terms of how it interacts with the AI models. And what you see very quickly is it's a lot more than just a wrapper.

And so I think that trend is only going to continue and it's why I think uh you know we at Lightseed are very bullish on this this form factor of company and I think you're going to see a lot of uh activity from us there over time from uh how have you personally evaluated you know businesses that are looking to eat into effectively uh labor spend through rolling up businesses versus companies that are looking to get into that on a groundup basis.

And I don't have a ton of context on Harvey's business, but from what I would guess right now, it maybe looks more like a SAS business today, but over time it could look like more like it, you know, it's sort of eating more of the of the value chain like what Salesforce did where they where you they get comped on per ticket closure as opposed to just pure sales.

Yeah. Results results basically output. Um, but I'm curious. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. just just this nature of you know groundup you know new software businesses that are leveraging AI versus this sort of buy and and build on top of strategy. Yeah.

So I think this question is sort of being answered collectively by the industry like as we speak as in like there's a lot of chips on the table around this notion of like hey what if we go and buy the BO in India and inject AI into it or what if we go and you know buy the homeowners association administrative businesses all over the world and inject AI into those.

Yeah, just just an idea off the cuff I have and uh uh and then on the other end you're seeing companies like Harvey that are saying no the right way to do this is kind of to deliver like AI native value in the form of a co-pilot like product and then over time you start to chip away at the labor spend and and bring more automation to there.

Um the first thing I'd say is that uh I think one of the mistakes that a lot of investors have made looking at these companies early is seeing the product as it was like then and not imagining how fast it was going to get better.

Part of that is obviously just the models getting better and I think just like when you have like logarithmic rates of improvement, it's just really hard for the human mind to like intuitit that and look forward and actually feel like confident in okay this is what it's going to look like a year from now.

So for example, I think it's fair to say that uh if you met Harvey at, you know, C or series A and you saw the product, you'd say I don't know if there's like a lot here. It's hard for me to see how this is going to be like a daily active use for the average lawyer.

But what's happened is that product has gotten so much thicker and and more capable to some degree because of better models to another degree because of the in-house engineering work they're doing around how the information is retrieved and delivered to the end user.

And so that product is just a totally different beast than it was, you know, a year or two ago. And I think you're starting to see that reflected in the growth rate and more importantly the the product engagement of these of these products. So that's kind of one point on on that end.

And then I think with these turnarounds like I I haven't spent a ton of time digging into these. I think my my high level concern would be uh one do the people that know how to bring the AI into these products know how to run the uh you know the BO or the call center operation or the community association administrator.

I just think these are these are uh kind of oil and water like DNAs and it feels a little bit like you know Doge coming into the US government and telling all these people what to do. I think there's going to be some friction like that.

Uh but on the other hand um you know having that existing distribution and scale is really really powerful. So I can see how there'll be a lot of enterprise value created by these if they can kind of manage that DNA mismatch that I foresee being being an issue. Yeah.

Uh so if you're asking me I'd much rather invest in the AI native company. Uh one and the other thing I'd say is that uh if you're the AI native company uh say competing with the company that's transforming itself around AI.

What I see out there right now is that there's sort of a board and CIO level mandate to just adopt as much AI as possible and and they look at it almost as existential as if like their business is going to perish if they don't do this right and more immediately they're going to get fired if they don't do this right and I think if you can and what I see with the best companies like you could you could say this about Windsurf you could say this about Glean and some of the other companies that that I've been somewhat close to is that if you can get mind share with the CIOS there's this mimisis that plays out where then the next one has to buy it and the next one has to buy it so I think really being first and being looked at more as like a true pioneer of the space rather than like a company that's being competent about how they bring AI into their existing products is just a much uh let's just say sexier position to be in when you're going and talking to CIOS and CEOs of these really large corporations.

And so uh that's the side of the fence that I'm I'm more inclined to to bet on as an investor. Uh makes makes a ton of sense. Let's talk about outcomes.

I think in 2021 2022 or you know especially early 2022 everyone was writing of like writing to lots of 10 billion dollar outcomes that was like maybe the general sentiment. You shared recently that you're thinking about you know trillion dollar outcomes.

Now, is that is the is the right framing as sort of a scaled platform fund to be thinking about making sure that you're in the handful of companies that that over time can be trillion dollar businesses versus just expecting tons and tons of you know these these uh uh you know 10 10 billion plus companies. Yeah.

So just to reiterate my position there that you mentioned like what I see happening right now is that there are companies that seem to be scaling into market opportunities at a rate and scale that we just really haven't seen before that can they can actually convince me that there will be companies that cross trillion dollar valuations in the private markets.

Like of course many companies have done this well I shouldn't say many but some of the great household name companies have done this as public companies and a lot of the value has been created there. Obviously now these companies are staying private longer.

they're growing faster and therefore I think it's not unfathomable to think of an open AI or a SpaceX, you know, getting to this place where we're talking about trillion dollar companies in the private markets. So what does that mean for the venture business?

What it means is there's even more headroom in this later stage investing part of the business that the mega platforms operate in that uh to generate alpha there that I think just wasn't there before.

So that's hard for me to ignore personally and I think why these mega platforms like Lightseed are are in a really unique position to to capitalize on that.

I think there's an obvious question as to, you know, are these the are these companies a point in time thing or are they more foreshadowing of more of these to come. I think that's something that we're kind of figuring out as an industry and watching.

But my instinct will be that just the the problems and the ambition of the problems that founders are going after these days are just so like fundamentally massive that I think we will just see much much bigger outcomes uh aligned with those companies that succeed at going after these like really fundamental problems like space travel uh like intelligence for example.

Uh and then I think with respect to the $10 billion outcomes, I mean, look, you're uh you're still going to see a tremendous number of those, right? I think that these these AI app companies are like the the large platforms are going to be very inquisitive of these companies.

I think you're going to see things like move works, which you know, Service Now announced or uh or you know, the Windsurf rumors that OpenAI and Windsurf are having conversations around. Like I think there's a lot more of this to come. And so I think the the the venture business will still be driven by those outcomes.

But I think when we have these trillion dollar outcomes, even if they're few and far between, it just completely distorts and and changes the shape of the industry. And I think that the mega platforms are well aware of that and and and and architecting their setups with that in mind.

Yeah, in many ways, you know, these these bigger companies uh would prefer to avoid, you know, four or five rounds in a row that are predominantly random SPVS with hundreds of underlying shareholders, you know, that are then all trading those positions over time. And it's very chaotic.

If you could just have, you know, if you could uh get the majority of your cap table around a single dinner table uh for a few more rounds, you might be more inclined to to stay uh to stay. Sure. Uh last question. Any lessons from Warren Buffett? He's uh transitioning out uh out of Berkshire Hathaway.

Obviously a very different style investing from early stage venture, but at the same time uh if Lightseed keeps scaling aumum, who knows? Anything's possible. Yeah.

So I guess the the thing whenever I think about Warren Buffett and I think technically Charlie Munger said this but I sort of think of them as one and the same for all the lessons that they share. U the one that I always come back to is this notion of the too hard pile, right?

And so what the two hard pile refers to is when they see a business that someone is trying to pitch them um on being a really compelling investment.

If it doesn't necessarily fit in the box of like their circle of competence and their ability to underwrite that business like with an unfair advantage, it goes in the too hard pile. even if it ends up being a great investment. And look, I think venture is all about exceptions.

But at the same time, I think knowing your strengths in terms of how like the type of people that you can read and work with, the types of markets that you can understand, the type of companies that you can start to really like dream with and and and kind of look out forward and have a sense and intuition of what they can be.

There's this notion of a two hard pile in venture there where I think sometimes the mistake that venture investors will make is they'll run after things that they don't actually understand either at the personal level or the market level.

And what I think I've really learned in the 11 or so years I've been doing this is like there is a notion of a too hard pile and venture and just like sticking to your strengths and really being open-minded but at the same time like understanding your core strengths that you can anchor on as a picker.

Um and so that that would be my answer. That's great. Great answer. Well, thanks so much for stopping by. Congratulations on your job. Come back on again. We love personalities here. We really appreciate you hopping on. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you for having me. Bye. Cheers.

And next up we have Katherryn Bole from Andre and Horowitz, the uh the pioneer of American dynamism. Uh what one of the top coinages of the last few years. Yeah, for sure. And uh and more relevant