Severance production designer Jeremy Hindle on building iconic sets, Hollywood's decline, and the craft of world-building

but we are live. Would you mind introducing yourself and what you do for the stream? Uh, Jeremy Hindo, production designer. Uh, I designed Severance, Top Gun Maverick, Zero Dark 30. A couple things. Amazing. Just a couple things. Why don't you go say a few more just first few were so impressive.

It's uh and a few thousand commercials. Yeah. And Detroit. A few other movies. I have a new Kathern Bigalow movie coming out. Oh, cool. Uh in the fall on Netflix. Awesome. We're just finishing that up now. Where uh where are you based normally? Los Angeles. Nice. So are we. Talk me through. I never worked there.

I moved I moved from Toronto 19 years ago. Okay. To work in LA. You've only done one film in California. Yeah. Wow. Why? Even when you moved it was already it's just so there's so much shooting abroad. I mean it's good for like c certain projects like Zark 30 you need to you're always going to need to travel.

It's just now that there's you know other than but severance feels like something you could film in LA. So no. So we shoot in New York because Ben still lives in New York which is awesome. So we're not going too far which is nice and it's nice.

It's great to be in New York and a lot of the cast live there and the crew are amazing. Do you agree with the criticism that Los Angeles and Hollywood have should have done more to prevent God? It's been bleeding for years. Yeah.

The the the interesting thing that the the the tariffs on foreign films news came out Sunday and I forget the guy's name who was kind of spearheading that.

He was saying like these other countries, you know, it was like the the local state and county leadership in LA have to take some responsibility for creating an environment where you know, it's just like economically unfeasible.

Do you think that was just hubris by the elected officials in Los Angeles and Hollywood to say, "Oh, we don't need to compete with Atlanta because we're Hollywood. " Honestly, I don't know why they I mean, I think honestly the tech a lot of tech moved into California into Los Angeles. Oh, sure.

And I kind of think that might have distracted Oh, interesting. I'm not sure they were paying attention coming, you know, and they saw that and I don't know, but you if like the studio system, but and all the prop houses, they've been closing for the last 5 years. All the best ones are gone. They went bankrupt.

A lot of them through COVID and then a lot of them hung on till the last year, but they're all closing because no one's shooting in California. It's it's the stages. I think it's I've heard 40% empty.

I mean, we No, we've been looking for a new So, we've been looking for uh like effectively a sound stage, new studio space, and we we found a space that we like. Everything's empty. But but uh it was shocking negotiating.

We we would tour a space be completely empty then we'd start the negotiation process and they would have these even the spaces you know maybe the way that the management or however they're capitalized but they would start throwing out numbers and I'm like you realize I've been in the space and I know that there's no one there.

I'm like, I know you're kind of who's your who's who's your backup offer because Yeah. And then of course like everyone who's ever been involved in the building management ownership, they're all of a sudden flying in to see you for just touring one little stage and you're like, "Okay, I this is a big deal for you.

" No, there's something wrong for sure. And I think it's just um you know, most countries there it's so like I did a movie in Australia and it's so incentivized. Totally. It's not because what a lot of these countries are giving is above the line. All the money is the above the line. It's actors.

That's the big money and places like California. New Jersey starting to do that now. Is that just tax incentives or actually Well, it's a tax incentive for crews and shooting and postprouction, but not always. A lot of places don't cover the cost. You know, if an actor's $25 million, they don't cover that part. Okay.

But now New Jersey is covering that part for Netflix. Like certain people have their own deals. That's where the real money is. Yeah. State of New Jersey is giving a tax write off for for that. Like a certain part of above the line. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And a bigger because a lot of them are capped at like a half a million.

Sure. It doesn't save you much when someone's getting 30 million on a movie. Yeah. You know, and say you have two or three of those people. Yeah. That's a big chunk of money that it's it's a lot. And I mean crew-wise for most people I know, everyone's making the same money they made 101 15 years ago. Yeah.

It hasn't changed much. So it's just how even if even if you've progressed a lot in your career in terms of doing, you know, I still think what I make I still probably make the same as Rick Carter would have made 20 years ago. the same number. Yeah. And the currency is not even close. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a good number.

I'm not complaining, but it's not what it's it's the same number. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. It's interesting. And they still go that's, you know, it's but it hasn't caught up in a lot of ways. And I'm not asking. I I have a nice life. Yeah. It's more I just like to be home sometimes. Yeah.

Well, take me through uh the production design workflow on a project that um we might be familiar with. Start with like is there location scouting involved? Pho photo photographs, are you sketching things? Are you in a particular software like what is your process?

I mean basically severances you know it's it was I when Ben sent it to me it was two scripts. There was only two scripts for the first 10 episodes. Sure. And tonally it was it was really nothing there. It was very funny. Um and it it was a great concept like this people will want to be separate.

It kind of scares me but I could go well I know half my friends want this if I could get it. And but it didn't have a look to it. So I wasn't it read like the office. It was budgeted exactly like the office. shoot in a location, great cast.

Adam was already attached to it, you know, it could have been parks and it was the same sort of tone, like that feel. And I was like, I don't really, it's not my thing. I want to do cinema. I want to do something really visual. Yeah. He said, well, what do you want to do?

And I'm like, give me a couple days and I'll put a lookbook together. I didn't know him. I just put a lookbook of what I thought it would look like. I'm like, if you want to do this, I'll I'll I love this.

I had an idea that I really fell in love with and he loved it, you know, and it was sort of conceptually like the outside was always going to be like it should always be winter. It should always be really sad outside. We have to kind of accentuated.

It was and then when we go underground it has to be you know very um particularly designed and also all the technology should be all the tropes that I as a kid grew up with that if you came out in the outside world now and told somebody you worked at this CRTC screen with a track ball you no one it wouldn't make any sense it had to be things that made no sense to anyone outside the world especially young people they never even seen my son doesn't even know what didn't even know what it was he's 20 like he still doesn't know what a track ball is really so it's trying to like that's the initial part is really conceptually what does the world look like?

Yeah. And then I start I really always start everything with a researcher. Her and I we just bang stuff out for a while and then I start with re with a concept artist.

How much of uh moving from a a look that's similar to the office which is very docu style to something cinema where you wound up is driven by actual budgetary choices versus just picking the right tools out of the same tool. didn't have any on service. We just abandoned that thought.

Like the cinematographer Jess and Ben and I, we were like, "What do we want to make? " Yeah. And we just made it. Okay. The budget exploded. It really did. But what drives that?

Because you people think about like, "Oh, we're filming with Cook lenses or Ari Alexa, and it gets expensive, but on the production side, uh, you know, not to degrade it, but it does feel like it's desk. How how expensive can it be? " Well, it's it's it's five stages a set. Sure. It's a lot. It's volume. Sure.

Like it a lot of shows like say parks and wreck, it's one set for the entire show. The entire every Speaking of a lot of sets, uh the rehearsal that's a lot of sets. A lot. It's a Yeah.

I mean, every new scene is like the amount of sets and then the amount of actors that come in and the amount of time it takes to shoot all the sets and pre-light and camera tests. It all just and the lighting probably gets more expensive as you're going for more cinematic look, right?

As opposed to just because we have sets that, you know, the birthing cabin in season 2, we we built it. It's only in one scene. Wow. Yeah, but it's a particular scene. It's that's destroyed. Well, never it doesn't exist anymore.

So, you start to you have to offset like how but a lot of shows are you know like Law and Order is designed to the sets are standing sets. It's a courthouse. It has and then the only sets are the only other ones are locations. Ours are whatever we want.

And also all the locations like they have to be places that we've never seen before. Like we go to we shoot in Utica, we shot in Newfoundland. We're all over the place because I I can't have somebody know that train station. We can't know it.

And then we alter take a location that's unique and maybe hasn't been, you know, popularized before and build on top of it. Absolutely. And then we do a lot of visual effects after. We augment and alter it because it's really about creating a world that everyone doesn't know. They don't know where it is.

Like we're always I would say we're in Poland for all I know. Like nobody knows. Yeah. And I don't want people to know we're in upstate New York. There's nothing identifiable really that people could pick. And it's not it's the intention is really just for people to go down that rabbit hole.

It's not to really trick them. It's just it makes it believable that they can't go, "Well, I hike there all the time. " It's just Can you talk about uh previs or is generative AI playing a role? Is everything do you interface with storyboard artists?

Um, what does that look like as you're trying to go from just this idea on the page which you said was very blank to something that you need to get to the point where you're like this is exactly what we're basically what I do is I I concept everything and you do iterations like sometimes probably 50 times to get to the way we like the set looks the way we all think it should shoot like Jess the DP and and now she's one of the directors on Severance and Ben it's really the three of us that just run with it when we're in shoot mode.

Yeah. And it's really they they both storyboard like crazy together. Like we we're really tight and very opinionated. We we ride each other like crazy. We argue all the time. Yeah. But in a really passionate um collaborative way. We have we're like there's zero egos. None of us have an ego about it.

It's just passionately what is the best thing? Like if it's not perfect, we don't shoot it. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. Uh, do you ever feel like the materials that you're working with to build a particular piece of furniture, for example, actually matter beyond just how they read on camera?

Is there something about a heavy desk that actually brings out a better performance? Oh, yeah. Even though you could just make everything out of balsa wood or something. Well, it's like the desk, the main desk like, you know, it was just it just the script said four desks, one large room. Yep.

And I was like, this it has to be this is like the I kind of treat it like a spaceship. It's like the control room of Star Trek, right? You know, it's like you need one thing to set the tone and everyone buys off on that set, they'll believe anything after.

So, I'm like, the desk has to be let's let's build this desk that's very interactive. They're like 5-year-olds. We treat them like once they're they're birthed into the Audi on the on the boardroom table, which Dan calls the womb. Yeah. Of the office. That's the birthplace.

You go to this work and you're really five years old. You don't know anything. You just start to work at this computer. I'm like, let's make it really playful. Like let's treat it like kind of like a playground. Yeah. And but I I want them to be able to jump on it. Like I want Zach to be able to jump on it.

I want it has to be structurally insanely strong and we just think of everything so that that way there's they they're not impeded by anything. Whatever they want to do, safety first. Go do it. What? It's just amazing. Did you I'm assuming you made the uh you you created the activation. Where was it in New York?

It was in the middle of that's so marketing for Apple is amazing.

That's all Mark that's all they are amazing and that the one in Grand based on based on yeah it's all based on what we do and then they but they're really interesting how they take it to the next level that one worked out really well well worked not in a good way but the fires so the premiere was canceled because of the fires in LA so that was happening at the same time and all the actors were going to be we were all going to be at the premiere they all just jumped on a plane and went to the event so it would have just been like you know people cast to be there but they all showed up unknown to everyone I I wasn't there.

I didn't know they were going is I feel like I feel like that the the just the imagery there's so many different images from um severance that have become iconic and and in some ways just got outsized attention on the internet just because they were so Have you been Have you been to the Apple website?

Is it still Yeah, you click on it. It's the first computer they sell. I don't know if they still have it or IKEA started making the desk. Like in Austria, they issued it first. Yeah. It's on the cover of IKEA. It's Yeah.

But but so is that is it is it the work that you're most proud of in your career or or is there is there something else that maybe didn't get the same level of attention that that you I mean I love the process is the best part. Yeah. I mean Top Gun was hilariously fun. Terod 30 was amazing challenge.

Like um they're all it's about for me it's the experience of it's a year or two of my life. Yeah. The people I'm with like I'm so particular who I work with. It's like you better be they better be interesting cuz why are you going to spend your time with them? That's really for me what it is.

What it goes out into the world when people make it is I mean this is exciting to watch. Not unlike Top Cut was well I I I you must appreciate you know uh product design is is is really hard right there's there's no doubt about that.

But uh somebody can have an idea for a product and you know within maybe call it 10 minutes to an hour they can have something that looks somewhat like the end state with with you must not have a lot of sympathy for for that given that you when you're like oh we need to design this like you know entire scene and we're going to need to import you know wood from you know this this region and that it's just a very difficult but it's also AI is a funny one because we don't use any AI nothing but well no because I I mean my biggest problem is I don't need ideas I just need money to make stuff.

I have so my ideas just fall out of me like and the older I get. So you want like you want humanoid robots that can you know assemble. I really just want you know support you know really we just want artists that we can we're making art. Yeah which is amazing and it's it's not actually a robot wouldn't work for me.

I need the person who has an opinion like I have this amazing sculptor who does all the sculptures. He's full-time. I've never had a full-time sculptor. I could go panko make let's make this let's make a bus. Let's make this piece of art. Yeah. He makes it in a day and it's and it's all in his head.

It has that human and it has like Yeah. And it has his heart and it has I love that. And it's not necessarily what I wanted. It's I want what they want too. Sure. Sure. Sure. Put that into where there's so much doom and gloom in the world. The movie industry. No, not the world. I actually world config. It's great.

Config. No, but but specifically in in entertainment, you know, film making. It is pretty gloomy these days. It is gloomy, but clearly there's amazing work being made.

There's all these new tools that people are going to have access to or already have access to that that that make variety, you know, different parts of the process easier. Where where are the bright spots to you? What what gets, you know, you excited? I miss the John Hughes movies. I miss scripts.

I I'm so tired of seeing guns. I really am. If I was the poster with a gun on it. Yeah. I just I find it really sad. Yeah. And I really I miss John Hughes.

Like I my kids know them all and most people know them, but there's nothing to really take like adolescence is is an interesting thing for young kids to watch because it's about real life, but it would be nice to also give them something that's to look forward to that's like how to fall in love for the first time.

Like yeah, the things that I find young generations are not getting. They're literally getting I love John Wick. It's fun, but they can't all be John Wick. Yeah, you know, we do have a lot of John Wick. Yeah, we we were talking earlier the need for uh positive science fiction, right?

You can still have a you can still have a dramatic story but not dystopian. Not cyber punk necessarily, maybe solar punk or like ours I think ours is funny because it's really still a love story. Yeah, he loves her outside and he fell in love inside.

It's just about love and that's really all we all want and it's the hardest thing to figure out how to have and how to let you be vulnerable is not something that's being allowed these days. Can you talk about production design in the context of a film where there's going to be a lot of shoot shots on location?

Like I mean I imagine that the nature of an aircraft carrier plays into the design production design even when you're on a sound stage. Um and there's less things that you have full control over.

Um, but how did you think about that in the context of Top Gun or or Zero Dark 30 similar where you know there's a certain grounding in the real world that you need to pull into the rest with the lighting design but also the production design. I mean honestly I I I think we can do anything really.

We built a Sabbin London compound. It's the size whole area. It's mass it's massive. That's amazing. I'm like why wouldn't we build it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was 300 people laying bricks for six weeks just non just it was a factory line. It was amazing. All these Egyptian That's remarkable brick layers.

It was incredible. Like I we built the Jet on Top Gun. Like if I just don't think you can't do it. I have zero understanding of no or why not. Like I always go why not and they go why? And I'm like I said why not? We're doing it. Show business. What about uh what about CGI like set extensions as a tool? Amazing.

Are you reaching for that more? And then how does that change your process? We use it a lot in severance. We use it a lot. I use it on everything. It's it is and I do a lot of cleanup now. Sure. Because you're shooting so much faster. you're prepping so much faster.

It's a great tool that's doesn't allow you to waste your time stressing over it that I can't do this in 3 weeks, but I can do this and then I'll do the rest after. And it's it's more economical and it's way less stressful.

But it the hardest part is the production studio producers, it's hard because that bag of money hasn't been put aside until people are just starting to like I'm like, put it away. Yeah. Let's commit to this amount of money and leave that money.

But how much of how much of your process is a dance with the you know whoever's funding project where where you're just trying to understand you're like dancing with the bowl right you know where you're like you know trying to figure out if I if I push the budget you know 15% maybe they'll be fine but if I take it you know 22% you know you kind of can read a room like anybody like you know and and I love just I'm I'm just like let's just talk to them let's can I just how about I just pitch let them see it and then if They say no, they say no.

You got to nose a lot and you have to adapt, but you have to keep pushing. It's it's just a battle. Like film making really is a war and it's a war till the end and every it's just how it works because and I I respect their job. Like we can't all go rogue.

You have to be responsible but you have to they do hire me to trust my instincts and if you don't do that you don't make good art. Yeah. I can't. How confident are you? Film is, you know, television, it's a hits business.

How confident are you, you know, mid during your process around uh what what the, you know, commercial, you know, commercial or just reception of a project will be. I have no I I honestly have for a long time I did commercials because I couldn't pick a movie because I was terrified. Is this going to be good? Sure.

And then I had a friend of mine who's done a million movies because you have to just kind of he said just let go. You have to let go. Just pick the people you love to work with and forget about it because you know he did you know Silence with Marty and you know that movie didn't do well.

It's a great movie though but you don't know why and you can't bleed over it for the rest of your life. You've got to do another one and another one and you just can't predict what people are going to like. And honestly you just you have to not care. I couldn't care less. Yeah. You'd love to care.

Like wouldn't we all love to care to make everyone happy? that I don't know why people like anything. And I think once you just give up on that and just look, they want what you want. If you are a visualist, they mostly want what you want. Yeah. I have a conspiracy theory I want to run by you.

Um, someone was posting, this is just a random person on on the internet, but they said that uh Apple is preparing people for a world where we're using virtual avatars in the in the Apple Vision Pro by using a more highkey lighting style in shows like Severance and Ted Lasso. Do you think there's anything to that?

No, I don't think I've ever none of us have ever even heard of it. Yeah. I mean, our be odd that it would bleed over, but our goal is really we are we when I like Justin B and I really wanted to make a movie. Yeah. A 10-hour movie and another 10-hour movie. Yeah, that's great.

Because everyone has a huge like I have a 140 inch screen at home. A lot of people have a projector now. And you can buy one for 500 bucks. Project it on your wall. It's still amazing.

I think most people have the, you know, a lot of people have the potential to see it bigger than watching it on their phone, which a lot of people producers say, "Yeah, but everyone's watching on their phone. " I'm like, "I don't agree. " Yeah. And I think some of these shows could be shown in theaters.

I think it could go back the other way. We just screened Severance episode 10 at the Dolby Theater a couple weeks ago for 3,000 people and it was like the Rocky Horror Picture Show in one. How would you is incredible. How would you fix the theater industrial complex?

because the the the sort of 100% tariffs on foreign films plan involved government basically subsidies to help theaters like fix their bathrooms or at least that was what was put out there and I was like I'm going to go out on a limb and I and I don't think the reason our theaters are are suffering is because they haven't had a new toilet in you know 20 years.

I honestly I don't I don't I think everybody just wants like companies want this guarantee they're going to make money. They got to take risk. Yeah. You know so you fail. I'm sorry. I fail all the time. what we do. Humans are failures works and sometimes it doesn't.

It's like so you have like their odds are still going to be good people like look at what people will watch and if there are like I couldn't believe how many people came dressed up as characters like they could screen on a weekend all 10 episodes and I guarantee you the dome if the arch lake was still open would be packed.

It would be sold out. You could sell it out for weeks. Yeah. Like I I do believe that because I see what these kids want to see and I have a 25-year-old daughter. She had every Friday night she had severance dinner night at her friends. Everybody was doing it.

It's like that's what Rocky Horror Picture Show was like when I was a kid. That's there was there we had those experiences. People want them and they want to walk out and talk about them. They don't want to watch at home and then look to the left and to the right and then go back on Instagram.

There can only be so much laundry TV, right? Like it's fun to to communally watch something and then talk about it and hang out on the street like and Yeah. On that note, do you have a take on You guys have to get it back. That's the thing is you have to you have to demand it. Sure. John Johns. Yeah.

I actually organize movie nights with all my friends and I just text everyone in Los Angeles. I get 20 tickets. I text everyone in my phone who's in town. Say, "Hey, do you want to come? " And then if people don't show, I just refund the tickets. It's greating. And and just put together his movie night.

It's just an activity to go out. It's better than going to the bar with your guy friendss. I'm not really that into sports. I've always been more into movies. But I think that's the thing is I don't think that they're look baby boomers have obviously lived too long.

They're still controlling how we live then there's you know my age and there's not a lot of like there needs to be a lot more control for at your age that's really controlling a lot of this and demanding that this is what you guys want. They still think they know. Yeah.

The 65 70 year old guys they still think they have the answers. It's like nobody wants to go. No, you don't want to go out. You're 70. You want to sit at home. You loved co. It's like 25 year olds don't want to sit at home. They want You go to Paris, the movie movie houses are packed. Yeah.

Every little theater's jammed all the time. Yeah. Yeah. You will go if they're available. I've actually been surprised. I mean, we're a technology and business focused show, but I've been surprised to not see more attempts at, you know, I'm surprised there isn't like a sweet green of theaters, right?

It's something that's like welldesigned and has healthy snacks and food and tired of the food. Isn't it awful? Yeah. Yeah. I mean I that that's a big part of it is like I haven't eaten movie theater. Yeah.

Our play with that a little bit in LA and and but a lot of them a lot of them they they end up focusing too much on avantgard film and all that. You just want to you know if they were just playing Yeah.

I I I do feel like yeah mixing in the hits and and creating these like big re-release moments can be good for kind of getting back people back in. Like look at Top Gun. People saw it five six times. Oh yeah. Totally. It was amaz It was exactly how I grew up. you had to see in the theater and I loved it.

And it's like I there's also there there why can't there be more? Well, so here here's another funny the the concept of scarcity could be interesting to implement. It's like you figure out a way to Hey, we're going to pull this film off the internet everywhere for a year off all the streaming. That was the way it was.

No, but you see it and then nine months you have to wait. Now it's on demand the next you can do it. Take take a movie, pull it off every everywhere for a year. Yeah. Bring it back. If you guys want to I would I hope someone starts an app and I'll I'll give the idea away for free.

Do one that doesn't track you or focus to you. You have to be It's like going to Blockbuster, walk around and find it. Like interesting. You just get sexy stuff. It's awful. Yeah, there's so many good like go to join the Criterion Collection, which not a lot of people do. There's a billion amazing films on there. Yeah.

And and start watching them. They're they're available. You just have to get off some of the, you know. Yeah. We got to get him the Criterion Collection. He hasn't seen any movies. I've seen everything. So cheap, too. Is it 10 bucks a month? I know. I love It's like the same price of a coffee with it, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We got to get him through that. Uh, so we're actually going into a production design session, building a new studio. Uh, what are the common pitfalls where we could get stuck in quagmire? We've been looking at big news desks.

We're thinking about putting some TVs behind us for, you know, graphics and displays. It'll be a pretty basic set, but we do want it to have to be more opinionated than just one newsroom, please.

We want something that that speaks to a more modern brand, but we have a little bit of this like, you know, we wear suits even though we're tech people and there's a little bit of that. But where where would we get stuck? Where are the pe who are the people that we need to be talking to to really nail this project?

Yeah, because I don't think it's whoever did CNN's set. Those sets are so old. Yeah. I mean, honestly, this is a fun set. Do this do this at large. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I think the cool thing is to make it really what it's real. Those sets are they're just designed for this.

They're all they care about is their logo. So boring. Like make something like I remember Letterman Leman was hilarious when he throw that card through the window that didn't exist and you heard the sound effect. Like just make it just make it fun. Yeah. Like like an interactive cheap doesn't have to be expensive.

No one cares. Yeah. Just make it fun. Fun is fun is key. Like I Back at our home studio, we have uh a range of exotic sound effects that Yeah. We're building the soundboard, but we also have props. We have a tin foil hat for when we're talking about conspiracies. We have a crystal ball that we pull out.

We have bottles of champagne and books and we've kind of built this whole like library. Come back and come back and hang with us. Totally. I live in Studio City. Oh, fantastic. Just go to CBS Radford. It's the best. CBS Radford. What's that? It's where they shot it's Laurel. It's Laurel and um Ventura. Okay.

Yeah, maybe we should check that out. Well, this other where they shot Parks at Rex where they shot Gilligans Island. I mean, everybody the other CBS is is a place where we were looking at Television City. Oh, I don't know that. It's another CBS lot. Bill Maher films there. Oh, yeah.

Uh, but we were touring it and it was pretty empty, but it was very cool. I mean, it was it was the real deal. Docs Bill Maher. I think that's public. No one wants to go there anymore. So, no. I mean, there's like seven layers of security to get in that building. I think it's And it's a it's a live studio audience.

People go in all the time. Right. Right. Anyway, um are there any uh are are there any new trends that you're tracking in in production design or or kind of advice for upand cominging folks who want to get into the industry? Is it uh like what is the path?

Because I imagine you don't just call up a studio and ask for your first job. You you need to build a resume of some kind, but it's kind of hard in the Tik Tok age to do anything related to that. You know, it's funny. I tell all my kids, like all their friends, you just have you have to do what we did.

You have to knock on doors. Knock on doors. Like my son's graduating from LMU right now. He's interviewing for these jobs that have five positions, 8,000 applicants. Wow. Yeah.

That's the He's in marketing and wants, you know, marketing for somebody like event planning or um uh film promotion or he was work he was interviewing agencies. Connect us. We're hiring. Yes, we're hiring. No, it's really it's amazing. But that's what they're up.

And the other thing is they're all having to do these stupid Zoom interviews. You can't Oh, yeah. That's You can't not I tell Sam, don't take one. You need to know if you like them, too. And you'll know their chemistry. If you I find Zoom interview is waste. It's like I don't know. I can't get a vibe from them.

But the second I sit with you guys, I'm like, I get their vibe and you want to hang out. Exactly. And you know who you don't want to hang out with. Totally. And that's what's being lost.

That's the art of I think that whole thing is just chaotic is there and and really lazy since co a lot of you no I go super quick it's typically one call 10 minutes come hang out let's meet up in person and meet up at coffee shop and really you can just tell like there's a million things their style there's they look at you do they shake I don't know I feel like the etiquette of a human you need to meet um are there any particularly underrated films from a production design perspective that you go back and you think yeah play Playtime.

It's the one I reference all the time. Jack Tati's Playtime. It's a France Copala still talks about it. It's It's what you know, Metropolis is going to be another one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're bombs. Like Playtime is a masterpiece.

It's It's my biggest reference for Severance was was there's artist like there's cardboard cutouts. There's people in the back. Wait till you see the airplane. It's just Wait till you see it. Okay. Awesome. And it's it's he it was all his own money. Yeah. He went bankrupt and and nobody watched it.

And it's like now there's books. It's a It's one of the greatest films ever made and sometimes that takes 50 years. Yeah. Sadly, he's not, you know, he doesn't see it. Wait, so when is when does Metropolis actually release? It's out. It's out and it bombed, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it was long.

I think people could watch it. Will it be will it be appreciated in the fullness of time or or just, you know, I think sometimes it takes 20 years for people to want to watch. Maybe it's too close to us. It's about us and we don't really like watching about ourselves, right? We don't like what we're doing to the world.

So, I think in 20 years they people will the young people your kids will be like watch this people like but but in a weird way people like White Lotus because it's it's like watching their own family vacation. Is that amazing? But that's different different.

Yeah, White Lotus feels like being at a luxury resort and just eavesdropping on everyone and their lives are full. But you're doing great. than eaves dropping. I know you're sitting there the whole time going, "God, I'm so lucky. My life is exactly here. I'm eating the same food, but look at these freaks.

" Yeah, look at these freaks. That's great. Yeah. Anything else you're you're tracking or watching these days? Have you seen the studio? I did. Yeah. Okay. I don't I don't Do you think it rung true? Because for me as an outsider, it felt like it was this great introduction.

It felt honestly like the world of Silicon Valley and venture capital with with like episode two, he he he is giving notes that he shouldn't. Yeah. And then episode three is he has to give a note but can't bring himself to. And and it showed that you know it's not just a there's not just a blanket rule.

Studio exec never gives notes. No, sometimes they do have to. And that that kind of uh back and forth was really I mean I think it has to be true because they're all Seth's experiences. He's regurgitated. Yeah, of course.

And I have a friends who have, you know, pitched me like I don't do I don't have that sort of relationship with studios. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but a lot of my director friends who've pitched and pitched and they and they laugh. They know they're like, "Oh my god, that's that guy. That's her.

That's it's based on real people. I think it's hilarious. Um I don't know if other people get it. I don't know because it feels very fily. I mean sometimes he's doing Woody All and that cracks me up. Like the one episode four I felt like Mad Had Murder Mystery, you know, he's I get what he's doing.

He's just trying to be fun, which is cool. Yeah. Uh what's like the most expensive item you've ever had to procure during a production build? Has has there ever been any moment where it's been like this is really high stakes. We got to get that shot. The jet for top gun. The jet for top gun. It took me a lot of time.

How did that work? You built it, right? Yeah. And everyone kept saying no. No, it's going to But you build it out of now you get why the F-35 is a trillion dollar, you know?

It was only it I think it was about 3 million allow to build, but it's only it's not it obviously doesn't fly, but to build a prop that's a lot of money for a prop. Yeah.

Does it go on some sort of like robotic arm or But we also built it to be real real at um China Lake and Tom see I wanted Tom be able to touch it, see it, interact with it. He gets in it. We tow it out all the way till it takes off is all real. Wow. And I'm like I'm just a believer everything should be real.

And you know I there's some feedback was like but we can do we can he's just going to change it and post later. I'm like we're not going to change it. We love it. If we make it that's it. That's it. And it's you have to find certain directors that can commit to that too. A lot of directors want to change.

So producers are like, "We're not going to pay for this. He's going to change it anyways. " We didn't change anything. And there's a unique dynamic with Tom Cruz specifically. Correct. Because he I I've heard like he even has his own insurance so he can do stunts. But can you unpack like what's with him?

So when we did the cockpit like we built you basically, you know, when you did stuff like that, especially with Tom or you have to build plywood versions. So we built it to make sure because Tom's an amazing pilot.

So, we built it in this wooden cockpit and with the wooden windows and a template and he's like, "It's not comfortable, guys. We got to make it comfortable. " Like, "Yeah, we know it's a plywoods, but he's really he's he's really adamant. He's going to be in there a lot. It's got to be really comfortable.

" And Ron, who was the aircraft designer I was working with, he's done about five movies with Tom. He got he got it all. But Tom is very specific where he likes buttons. Like, he moves things to where they want that where he is. If he was a pilot, that's where he is a pilot. Oh, no. I want I would put it there.

So it so it's all so when he's in that mode he's perfect because it's so custom to him and it and the inside cockpit we we did it with skunk works we had a whole deal with skunk works really I was out there Joe and I were there all the time we co-designed the cockpit with them there are components there's buttons in there that are two $3 million that are from prototypes that only 10 people know what they are and and and they're nods to those people they're not they're not for us they're but they would bring them into us in these little boxes and we'd put them in and Yeah, you know, and it's just that part's amazing.

It's such a little touch, but you know, it just goes a little bit further. And it's like that finishing that last 1%. It takes 90% of the time. Well, and for me, it's it's, you know, in severance, a lot of the actors say it to me. It's like they look around the room like, there's so much we won't see.

And I'm like, but you're seeing it. Yeah. And they're using it. And it's it's not just for the audience to see it all. They feel if they walk into this bonker set and it's all feels real and there's things to do, they just get lost like you naturally would. Yeah. So it's just the way you have to design.

A lot of people say we won't see that. It's like I don't even know what that I just don't ignore it. Creating a world. And as hard as a lot of designers, they will cut it out. They'll be like, oh yeah, they won't see it. It's like you don't know that. And every director like Katherine Bigalow, everything's a 360.

You don't give her a half set. Yeah. It's like because if she if you do, she will shoot that other half and it'll be in the movie. Like you have to do the whole thing. Yeah. But you just have to be She wants to be immersed. Our job is to create a world that actors feel real in. Totally.

And then when you watch it, you believe it. Yeah. Should there be an Academy Award for production design? There is. There is. Yeah. But does it It doesn't happen during the main event. It does. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My friend Patrice won for Dune last year. I don't know who won this. Okay. I can't remember. Yeah.

It's a big award. I thought there was There's one category that I I I have to imagine you're going to be this will be an Emmy for severance. Yeah. There you go. Um, I hate to cut this interview short. This is really fun. Super enjoyable. I'll happily do it again with you guys. Yeah, this be great. You'll be in my home.

I'll try my best to put down the busy guys. You can drive it on drive it onto the set. Do a burnout on the set. Don't go west side. It's too damp. No. No. We're We're going to Hollywood. Nice. We're bringing it toollywood. Come to Hollywood. Yeah. All right. Bring media back to Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, thanks so much. Cheers. Great hanging. It was great. I got to watch Playtime. Um, 1967 comedy drama. Never seen it. Bye guys. Later. Hi. Um, yeah. What a delightful conversation. Not someone that we normally have on the stream, but we need to do more Hollywood. We should do a whole Hollywood day. Welcome. Hey.

Hi. How you doing? Welcome to the show. It's great to have you. Great to be here. Really, really chill day, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Super relaxing. Just plenty of time to just come hang out on a podcast here. And let's adjust that microphone so it's it's towards your face. You can just adjust the mic.

I think we'll be there. We go. That's good. Um, would you mind introducing yourself for the stream? Tell us who you