Chris Black on book publishing strategy, AI in fashion, and the future of social media

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Let's bring him in. Chris Black, how you doing? Bring me in. What's up, guys? How are you? What's up? What's happening? It's uh it's great to meet you. I uh I' I've wanted to chat for a long time. I I actually bought your uh what was that little green book that you you made all those years ago. Wow.

We got an OG on our hands. I know you think you know it all was I think it was 2015 I did that with Powerhouse. So, thank you for being a ground floor investor. I had that I had that in college and I felt so cool to be a college kid that was cultured enough to buy a a table, you know, coffee table. Coffee table black.

Yeah. I think it I think it turned into more of a bathroom book than coffee table. It's very it's very small. You would like you would like the form factor. Sure. Sure. Sure. And what was inside the book? Break it down. Uh I mean Chris can give some more context.

The thing that I remembered in a quote that I've brought up a bunch uh was the it was the Andy Warhol quote in there that was something like making money is you know uh business is art and making money is art and good business is the best art. You you guys loved that. You guys love that. Yeah.

I mean the the the book was just like a fun advice book kind of. Basically it was it was um it did really well as a uh graduation gift purchased from Urban Outfitters that year. That's that's we sold a lot of books. Thank thank god. So it was it was fun to do that. It was very it was very fun.

Did you go through a traditional publishing house? Like what was the workflow? Did you write the whole book and then shop it around? Like I've never published a book. So curious. It was ba it was based on Twitter. Honestly, it was based kind of on that idea of like life soul instruction book.

The classic form factor to use your term meets sort of Twitter. So I went through wrote them all. Yeah. I did it with powerhouse which is like sort of in and out of business from what I can tell. Um, but I'm working on a book now for Simon and Schustster that should come out in 2026.

So that that's a little more of a the process you're talking about. What's the concept of the new book? It's kind of it's kind of like a essay memoir, you know, a little bit everything from like some high school stuff to being a drug addict to work to kind of everything.

Um, and that process is a little bit more like you're talking about, like you write a full essay, you know, you outline uh some chapters and then you take that out and and sell it. And CIA helped me. Obviously, I wasn't doing it myself, but it's daunting, but I'm excited. Yeah.

What's the su What's the secret to like a good book launch these days? We talked to uh Ezra Klein's co-author and he was saying that interestingly like when they went on hour-long podcasts they sold less books than like a five minute hit on like TV because if you listen to an hourong podcast you're like I got the gist.

I don't need the whole book. But if you listen to five minutes you're like oh I could do I could do another hour. I'll buy the book.

That's a fair I have a friend who's a very successful legendary author who told me an anecdote that he sold more books from doing Tucker Carlson when he was on TV than he sold from anything else. Like a clear bump.

And I mean, you know, this was years ago, but I think that I mean, we were talking about this earlier today. Jason and I actually were talking about this and about how sort of um podcasts have replaced not only late night obviously with this like kind of like Steven Cobear news.

It's but also like Good Morning America The View. Like it's still fun to do that stuff. I don't but it might it might move books, but it doesn't seem like the publicists think that it it does based on the priorities of what they're having their clients do. Yeah. Is it is it speedrun 200 podcasts?

Is that is that the playbook now? I mean, if you pay attention to people Yeah, kind of. You know, if you have if you pay attention to an actor or writer or whoever has something coming out, it's like, you know, music. We we talked to a lot of musicians on How Long Gone.

So, we're part of that in some ways, but like there's the Dak Shepard's Joe Rogan's smart list, Caller Daddy world that I think is basically that's the new Oprah that, you know, that's what it is.

I almost feel like there's a world where some podcasters, certainly not us because we're a daily show or news driven, but some podcasts, I'm thinking of like acquired FMs, like business deep dives or some true crime podcast, like they kind of fill the hole of an audio book.

It's like you get two or three hours every month and it feels like it's just a more it's like an easier financial model for them to be like, well, I'm selling 12 ad slots and I have subscribers that feel like they're getting something. They're not waiting a full year for the next thing.

So, when I hit their credit card with a $20 charge this month, they're getting one.

We were talking uh I think we were talking on Friday this concept of like releasing a book on Substack because you could get somebody to effectively it creates this like community experience of like reading the book together but then it's you know you might charge $25 for your book but somebody might pay you I don't know $10 a month for your substack.

Uh no I mean there's all these I mean I I think there's all these ways to do it. I am extremely traditional in the what I think is cool and what works. Um, I would like to do it about as buy the book, no pun intended, as possible just because I think that's cool.

I think all of these modern approaches though are often more more profitable and also maybe um, like you said, easier for people to stomach. Like the attention spans aren't there.

Even if you break it up like that in their minds, it's like easier to read in a weekly dispatch than it might be to sit down for an hour every day and read a book, you know? Yeah.

There's also something about like I mean when way I' I've heard somebody say like when you publish a book like it's the easiest way to get like a comma with a phrase after your name every time you're in print. Like if I wrote a book that's just like you know how I became awesome.

Everyone would just be like okay like you know life life as someone awesome forever. John Kugan author of of the awesome life. That's why I'm awesome. Chris's book I'm assuming the memoir will be called just goatated. goatated. Just goated. That's what I'm thinking. I'm workshopping it now.

But no, I mean I think you're right. I mean, I had another friend um uh Mattie Mat, uh the the chef and cookbook author and you know, actor and he told me he was like, "Dude, like New York Times bestseller lasts for the rest of your life. You can you you get that forever if you do it one time, you know?

" And like I I think that also that is so interesting because it's such like a classic thing that we all know but no one really knows the formula of how you get like it's not just sales.

There's all these factors that like no one knows you know which makes it even more it's interesting to think about would you rather have be featured in the New York Times? Is it is it more valuable to be featured in the New York Times four times a year forever or just be a New York Times bestseller?

Because I we had we had a couple buddies get hit pieces last week in the New York Times and they just like really they only get attention if you give them attention. Like they Dude, I was I That's so funny you say that because there was a story in the early days of How Long Gone.

There was a story that wasn't favorable, let's say. And I was like, "Wait, was this was this the um was this the whole lawsuit thing? " Because I got the t-shirt back then, too. The t-shirt? No, not the New York Times. No, this was not the New York Times lawsuit.

This was not this was not the cease and desist for making fun of the daily. This was a it it's you know it's um yeah sand don't striand it. Don't striand it. You know speak really generally so nobody can figure it out. You know what we're moving on. We're moving on.

Uh anyway the the other interesting thing about books versus podcasts is uh we have a buddy who runs an AI podcast, the Dwarash Patel podcast. great show, great interviews, super researched. Um, he published a book and the book was uh an uh like a an oral history of AI.

And so it was a collection and it was actually kind of like a digest of a bunch of interviews that he's done. So he didn't start from a blank page and just start typing out like a thousand pages and and refine it.

But and in some ways it's like it's just kind of a different instantiation of the same thing that he's been doing. But I love it because I'm there's no way for me to go to like randomly remind myself in five years that I should go revisit a Dark Cash podcast unless someone like clips it and shares it.

But if I put that book on my shelf, I might pick it up randomly in a few years. And there's something about like just the tangible physical. We're very into the physical stuff here. We print the No, for sure. It's real.

I mean, I think also that's I mean I think that like everything else, it makes a return to some extent. You know what I mean? Like I subscribe to the Financial Times. I subscribe to several magazines like a lot of my friends do.

I mean, obviously I'm 42 years old, so it kind of makes sense, but I think that like young people are fetishizing print the same way they fetishized vinyl, you know, a couple, you know, 10 years ago. It's the same kind of thing.

Once it is, you know, once it's basically past its prime, print is just objectively better than vinyl, though. I got to say I'm not 100% in that it's like it's it you can go to the very like you can't like you know like just bringing a piece of paper to the beach and letting it get losing it whatever. It's nice.

It gives you the benefit of leaving your phone at home. That's the powerful thing. When I finish a book, I leave it wherever I am. Like on back in the backseat of the plane on on like I leave it so somebody can hopefully pick it up and take it because I'm usually I usually have a couple with me if I'm traveling.

If I finish one, I got to lose some weight. You adding You're adding adding stuff on the way. That's amazing. Exactly. When are we going to get How Long Gone Pressed on Vinyl? We got to do a couple special episodes. We did do a CD.

We did do a CD a couple years ago with with Jag Jaguar, which is a really fun project to do. But I mean, I think for us, we're still I mean, you guys have have have done something so interesting. I think it's so cool the way what you guys are doing and how you're approaching it.

I think this live daily thing is like really powerful. Sure. Um, and I think we're trying to figure out what our version of video is. Wait. So, yeah, you guys are doing What's this thing? Uh, I read it in in Feed Me, uh, like you're doing a live show, like a one-off live show. We we did, we're on tour right now.

We're just have a couple days off. Um, but we did a show at Turf Club in St. Paul, Minnesota. Um, at this basically with this service called veps. com, which is started by the Madden Brothers from Good Charlotte, but then Live Nation bought it. Um, and it's basic.

They send a full sort of very pro crew to shoot your show live and you can pay, you know, buy a ticket online and watch it up to 48 hours after you pay. Um, what's the idea? It's like Vampire Weekend, How Long Gone, Alicia Keys. So, I don't really know how. I don't really know. Podcasters in Control.

Podcasters in Control. What's the right live show for you though? Like, do you feel pressure to to have like, you know, the hottest takes? We're doing DC on th we're doing DC on Thursday and then Friday we're doing Toronto and then we go to London. Um but this this show is actually different.

We we we used to just go up there and shoot the [ __ ] We'd bring a guest up, you know, depending on what town we were in. Um much like the the actual podcast. This time it's the How Long Gone Guide to Life and it's a visual. It's like basically a keynote that we're walking the audience through with like our commentary.

And we've only done it twice so far, but it feels it feels sort of like it's taken us from a live podcast to a show. Sure. Which is what our goal was, and I don't think we could figure out exactly how to do that. And I think this is is kind of pushing us in that direction, which is great.

What's uh give give us the the threeinut summary of the guide to life so that people have to still go see Yeah. Don't give away. Get the tickets. Get the ticket. Yeah. No.

Uh it's um it's by by the way we we did we did one live show together in Miami and we had only made like two episodes and so nobody like nobody knew us as a duo.

They didn't know our humor and the and the live show the live show is like we made like like a very serious uh like um argument for why venture capital firms should get their founders on like peeds.

So like testosterone like like a that's a great that is ext I would watch pay attention to that yeah exactly and and I don't like half of the a half the audience was like these guys are dead serious half were like kind of laughing like what is going on this it's a mixed it's a mixed bag. Yeah.

I mean ours we basically cover all of the stuff that we talk about on the show from like restaurants and restaurant etiquette to the gym and gym etiquette to dating and sex and drugs. So it's like we cover it, you know, it's like one slide that's going really well for us is polyamory is for ugly people.

Be single or cheat. That's going really well for us. But you know, it's just like funny stuff that you can just kind of talk about and also will inspire a response from the crowd cuz we we like to go back and forth with the audience. It's fun.

We're going to create we're going to create a rival guide for life and and we'll just go guide for guide. We go for guide. Look, I think we I think we have different enough audiences where we cover a lot of territory, you know, cover a lot of stuff. So, so going back and forth, I want your uh restaurant etiquette.

This morning, we go to our cafe where we have breakfast every morning. Normally, really like I never noticed the music. It was always quiet and chill. And today, they were blasting in sync and Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears. And maybe it was just the mood because it was kind of gloomy in LA.

We're having some like late June gloom going on. It was terrible.

And I was a little bit tired from the weekend trying to get back into it and I was like trying to read like a pretty detailed analysis about like tech and stuff and I was just like I can't I and funny thing is that two days ago I was in a grocery store and I was like jamming to the Backy Boys and I was like this is the greatest thing ever.

I was loving it in that context but in the morning but it felt like such a violation of trust because we go to this place every so reliable and it and it sets me up for the day. am prepping the show. And so we kind of made a we made a slight comment. We were like, "Oh, is the music different?

" But I want to know etiquette wise, how should I I don't want to be I want to speak to the manager. That's weird. But also like I'd like a change. What should I do? What What kind of like uh like you get as a regular? Like what are your rights as a regular? What are your rights as a regular? You're right.

You can't say anything. Sorry. If you say no. If you say something, they're never going to look at you the same. You're not whether you're right or wrong. I'm just telling you they're going to they're going to think of you differently. The bra it's not going to be made with love anymore.

It's not going to be made with love. No. So So am I supposed to vote with my feet go somewhere else? I I we were running the numbers. We go there every single day.

We're like we're basically employing a single person there paying the I like I like how you think about this like it's logical and then you can sort of figure out a way to make it work. It's it's a barista hates all of the customers and that's Yeah. Yeah. It's a feature.

I mean that's I understand what you're saying though. I I think restaurants like there was a trend for so long and it's still going on where like restaurants play like hip-hop, you know, and like I don't want to hear Kanye West while I'm eating spicy pine, you know?

I want I want to like I want to hear nothing is preferred. If you go to certain kind of old school like I think Leader Dan in New York doesn't play music and it's just it's like the bustle of the restaurant and the chatter. I' I'd much rather hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating.

Jordy, where should we take it now? Fast. I have a I yeah I wanted I wanted to just get uh some some broad takes from you on a bunch of different topics that we don't we don't cover closely. So one first off is AI psychosis real? You experienced it yet yourself?

Let me let me let me tell you something about AI and I'm sorry to all of your I just could I'm assum I'm assuming the hottest I don't care less. I think it's I think it's a reality. I think it's very serious. I think it's coming for us good, bad, and ugly. I just don't care.

and like other things in my life, I'm going to put it off till the very last minute. And when I have to deal with it, I've never downloaded Photoshop. I've never used Inesign. I I' I've put off all this [ __ ] in my my entire life and it's worked out.

So, I think I'm going to do the same thing with AI until until I have no choice. And and you're So, you work uh list off some of the clients that you've worked with over the years. It's basically everybody, right? Oh, I mean Yeah. I mean, everything and on the in the on that side of the business. Yeah.

I mean, New Balance, um, Tom Brown, Stuy, uh, Jay Crew is is an ongoing one. Um, Banana Republic for a couple years. So, yeah. I mean, I love Banana. A little bit of everything. John's 68. So, Banana Republic, yeah, they signed Kevin's 69. Jason's 69. So, he has the same suffers the same size. And he has the 14 15.

Jason's a 17. So, it's really Oh, okay. Moged. He goes to he goes to these like funny websites to find stuff that like we haven't heard of because we're dark web big and tall. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So So you're going in when you're working with these clients, it's kind of like Rick Rick Rubin mode.

You don't know how to use any of the tools. You're just kind of like they just pay you to to tell them what what I mean. No, I think it's a little bit of um a relationship thing and and hopefully a taste thing.

Like I I think taste takes years and years to develop and I think mine is is um suited for certain people more than others. I think J Crew is like a perfect fit because I grew up wearing J Crew. I I was raised in Atlanta. It's preppy. It's southern.

But I think I have a little bit of a different point of view because I I got into punk and hardcore and you know skateboarding and all that stuff. So it's like a little bit of a hybrid of all that of all those things.

But I think with with clients, it's all about sort of taking the real talent at the company and making sure that it doesn't go off the rails, you know?

So, the creativity people who are true geniuses and really creative like powerhouses need to be brought back down to earth a little bit, you know, and like reminded in a nice uh gentle way that if we don't, you know, make money, this is all over. You know what I'm saying?

like this like like we can do all this stuff, but sometimes you got to feed the beast to make sure the lights stay on and it buys us more time to do more fun stuff. And I think it's like a I think as an outsider going into a company, you're able to do that a lot easier than like a a salaried employee.

Yeah, you can stir things up. Uh are you um but but so so going like slightly deeper your client like I have to imagine every single brand that you've worked with or will work with in the future is starting to try to mix in AI generated imagery and I'm sure that's sounds like that's triggering to you.

It's just stuff that that you don't you don't want to like how do you see the kind of market kind of bifurcating in the sense that you think every brand do you think any brands will take a hard line and say like we only shoot you know farm-to-table organic content here we never I think that's exactly what's going to happen I think there's going to be like a division where it's like obviously certain things are easy to automate I think everybody will do that because it's a it feels like a freebie I think some of the creative stuff I think a lot of at least I clients I work with would sort of be like, we need a human being to take the pictures like that.

Like pictures specifically, like to me, there's so much emotion involved in it. There's so much skill involved in it and you just can't to me I haven't seen it mimicked correctly. Like asking Chad how to fix your car is different. Like this is something that requires like a human touch, I think. Yeah.

And I I think there's actually there's laws in place that that make it so that chain restaurants can't photoshop their food, right? Because they would just photoshop a burger and then they're trying to sell it and it just doesn't look anything.

And I think I think it's possible we'll see I don't know on the apparel side it'll be interesting because everybody's had the experience of like buying an item and it just looks amazing online or it looks great when it gets there or whatever and then it just like doesn't fit or whatever.

And so I think that that will probably accelerate as you have these sort of upstart brands that never even do product photography, don't even know if they're if their stuff well product photography and like ecom photography is like a science and it's pretty hard to get right.

And there's a lot of discussion at these at these companies about how to do it, who who's going to shoot it, how it's going to appear.

And I think that stuff is very interesting because it directly relates to sales and like the bottom line like some styles work really really well and that's what everybody wants to mimic and some are a little a little harder to to pull off you know. Yeah.

What about on what about how do you see like you know the music market evolving. We we don't cover much music at all. Latest Justin Bieber album. We got two two songs on the drive home. Check out swag. I mean, we we talk about music and on how long gone.

All that's all we do and like a lot of my my best friends are musicians. Um, most of them are successful at this point because they've been doing it long enough. But I think it's like every everything else in our in our lives, I think we're just paralyzed by choice and the barrier of entry is just too low.

You know, the there's too much stuff and music suffers from that maybe more than any other genre that I can think of.

And you mean you mean because be you know growing up you'd buy an album, you'd invest dollars into it and so you would listen to the full thing and you'd like really pay attention to it and now if you can stream an album for two seconds and be like ah it's whatever. Yeah. You don't care. I mean I think yes.

I think that I also think that it's just if if the three of us wanted to make a song right now and upload it and have it on iTunes and Spotify this week, we could do that. Yeah. And I don't think that I don't think the world needs that from us or from many from many other people.

And I I think that but yes, you're right. I think when you would go to the store, um access was harder. I mean, we talk about this all the time. Like I grew up I remember the day that we got internet at my parents house, you know? I mean, we had the Dell in the [ __ ] family room. I remember it like the whole thing.

And if you remember a time before that, I think the effort that was involved to like anything or or to to understand anything was so much greater because you had to piece it together through like magazines and going to a show and that kind of thing. Yeah.

You go to a show, you go to magazines, you look at the liner notes of an album and see which bands get thanked and then go find those bands, you know? It's like it was that it was kind of that tactile and that granular.

Um, but yeah, I I think it's like I I think that like Spotify and and streaming in general, like I know people that make a lot of money on streaming and they're very happy with that. I know a lot of people and the the I think general sentiment is no one gets paid enough.

And of course, I always want artists to get paid more because they, you know, it's a soundtrack to our lives. It's like important for culture.

Um, but I also think that people forget that these are just giant corporations and they've got bot again, they've got bottom lines and like they're going to do whatever they have to do to make that work. Yeah. Do you think corporate jingles could make a comeback? They have. What do you mean?

I mean, you know that, you know, famously Push A Tea from Clips wrote the McDonald's jingle. I'm loving it. No way. Yeah. I have no idea. He'll never have to work again, you know, from that alone. Yeah. So, I think it all that stuff. I mean, it's like the way that like John Ham is the voice of Mercedes.

Like, everybody gets it how they can, you know what I mean? I think the jingle or I mean, what we talk about a lot on How Long Gone is like sync culture, you know? on like how there used to be like a you would be a sellout, you know, if they used your song in a in a Jack in the Box commercial.

And now it's like, well, that's the most money I'm going to make. If they're going to give me a quarter million dollars to use my song for 30 seconds, like, I have to do that. You know, the choice isn't isn't quite as clear as it used to be. And so, we've talked to a lot of different musicians about regret.

You know, how they like pass something up because they were high on their horse in their early 20s and now that they're 40, they're like, I'm a [ __ ] idiot. Like, was it was half a million dollars. Like, who cares? Yeah, that makes sense. You wait, you said that they've made a comeback already.

Like, is there a more modern example than the than the McDonald's song? I I mean, I feel like you might be right. I I feel like they're just they're ingrained in my brain, so they feel new totally, but like Cars for Kids or something is probably 20 years old.

If you guys ever lived in New York, there's 1877 cars like you. Yeah. No, I I Yeah, I know it. Well, I'm just thinking about like of the new companies that have emerged. Airbnb, Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, Open AAI, like SpaceX, like Tesla doesn't have a jingle.

Like like I I don't know if those would be even like on brand, but like even funny even even like Prime from Logan Paul like he he's done a song like he did he did like it's everyday bro with his brother I think or maybe that was just his brother but uh you know like there are influencer brands. Mr.

Beast has a a chocolate bar.

I don't know that it has a a jingle and I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact that like the nature of advertising has become like way longer tale in this in the in the creative like we we don't see that many like shelling points for like wow they made an iconic ad it ran at the Super Bowl everyone's talking about it.

It's more like they spent the same amount of money on ads but it's just in the form of a thousand different Instagram ads and everyone saw a slightly different one that was more tailored to them.

So the guys saw the one potentially alpha making a jingle right now and using the same jingle on like thousands of different creative. So it's always the same audio and different and then I think we're on to something here. Time is money. Say both. Find your happy place.

I mean with car companies they they obsess over like the sounds the cars make. You know you know what I mean? Like I drove this new Mercedes from Atlanta to um Miami for the F1 and it was like there was all this detail. I'm a huge Mercedes fan. We love Mercedes over here. We We have tons of them.

I'm in I'm in Bedford, New York right now and I borrowed a a CLE AMG convertible. Couldn't be better. But I just notice all the But when you drive these car, you notice like these little kind of sort of Yeah.

brand moments where it's like a little noise when something starts up or like it is audio or like how famously like Porsche has a guy whose only job is about like the way the door sounds when it closes because it sounds so much better in a Porsche than other cars, you know?

But it but it's just a funny I think there is these audio elements that are happening from a brand standpoint, but they're not quite as overt as a jingle, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It does feel like uh Doug Demiro has this take that like power is on demand. Like the latest Rivian truck, electric truck has 1,200 horsepower.

It's the same as a Bugatti Veyron. Like it is it like you can't go any That's what you want. Is Rivian a sponsor? Is Riven? No. No, no, no, no. All right. cuz that Rivian is Rivian's like the that that is like the Austin mesh hat yet Yeti cooler of cars and I just don't I don't get the popularity.

I don't think it looks good. I mean I guess it's an alternative to Tesla.

So that's part of the Yeah, I I think the main thing was that like Tesla hadn't come out with a with a truck yet and then they came out with a very controversial design and then the F-150 Lightning was pretty expensive and the Rivian kind of was just pure play like didn't confuse anyone and and then they did have the full size SUV or like close to full size SUV in the electric category a little bit sooner than the Hyundai Ionic 9 and a couple others.

It it says a little bit more, but uh it is interesting because between Lucid and Riven and Lucid and there's that Pstar. Pstar is technically like a Volkswagen or Oh, is it? It's It's not Volkswagen. It's the Volvo like Volvo.

I I go to I go to Copenhagen Fashion Week a couple times a year and it's all and the drivers are It's all polestar. It's all I mean, every brand is confused with what to do with electric.

Like it's like do we throw a is it a is it a powertrain and we just throw a little I at the end or an X or an E at the end or do we do a whole new subbrand or do we spin something out? Oh, what do you have you seen that? Have you seen the new the new Lamborghini? What is What is the the EV? Oh yeah.

What was that called? It's called the Why do they have to make them look like Lanzador? The Lanzodor. You got to pull up a picture of the Lanzador. This thing looks wild. It is. What is it? What is it? A Lambo? Yeah, it's a Lamborghini Lanzador. They they're calling it an SUV, but it just looks like a really big car.

Like a lifted sedan. It looks like a lifted No, it looks like a lifted. It's kind of sick. It's kind of sick. And then there's the slate truck which is coming out which is like the small thing, but but I think that some of the new companies like they're so focused on like just deliver on the basic value prop.

They're not in that like surprise and delight category yet. Although Rubian did kind of do that with like that gear tunnel. you you know about that in the I don't know anything I like Okay. Yeah, that is a that is just a a big old car. Yeah, it's a big car, but they're calling SUV, guys. Like a Subaru. No joke.

No, that's that's the uh that's like a Subaru Halo car. Like that that should be there. Subaru. Uh uh total uh total tangent, but I did have uh one question and then one idea that I wanted to throw out before before you jump. Do you think that any social media apps will become truly Lindy?

Like will we be on X like 30 years from now chopping it up on the timeline or as a as a I call it Twitter still. I'm a I'm a traditionalist but for this purpose I will call it X. I X is the most enduring platform that we have because I think it's not imagebased. I think that's what sets it apart.

it it feels more comedy and information and those are two things that I feel like aren't as affected by trends in some ways whereas like Instagram I love Instagram I use it every day but like people get when people get very exhausted by it because of what they have to see you know I think Twitter I don't know I'm a I'm a Twitter die hard I'm a power user I have been forever um and I will never change that that's awesome I hope yeah it's one of those things like is is is it digital news or is it like the form is it its own like form factor like vinyl that will just perpetuate forever.

We're gonna find out. Last uh last question, media media and entertainment question because you're an entertainer. Do you think there's room in the market for uh next election cycle? Uh pay-per-view boxing between both political parties. So, so, so like Democrats versus Republicans betting on the line. Very American.

I'll pay I'll pay $100 for the PPV for that. I mean, I think that I I don't think we're that far away from honestly. I know that's a joke. I don't think we're that far away. No, I'm not. I'm actually I think every four years you get 10 10 Dems, 10 Republicans, get them lined up in different weight classes, $100.

Duke it out. Settle settle it. I would I would love to see some low-level, you know, firstear senators just bloody themselves in the on the on the opening round, you know? That's what we need. Yeah. doesn't even it could just be angry online posters too, you know, settle.

Well, that that's a that's a a category of fighting that has not been monetized yet. Something we should think about. Yeah. It's like Dana White's slap boxing thing or whatever. No, no experience required. Slap boxing would be huge. Awesome. All right. Well, this was super fun. Come back on again soon. This is great.

We'll talk anytime, guys. Thanks so much. All right. Have a good