Dylan Field on Figma's IPO day: design is now 'how you win or lose,' not just how things look

Fantastic. And I think we're going to hop on with Dylan right now. Welcome to the stream. Here we go. Looking incredibly sharp. Thank you so much. Fantastic looking suit. Great. Uh, what do you have there? You have a gallon. We're going to ask you to hold this.

You know, I mean, he's got How many times did you ring a bell today? Because you rang the opening bell. Walk me through your day. What did you actually do today? Have you gotten any sleep or your day started? Okay. I don't know. I don't know. Is that how bad I look? No, no, no. I just know the schedule is is brutal.

Intense schedule, but it was a great day and um the team was incredible. And yeah, the uh in terms of the gavvel, I mean, I just feel like you're holding this thing, you know, you can do anything. You can do anything. So powerful. It's a powerful gavvel. I feel like it's time to make a bunch of product decisions. Yeah.

Not sure on what yet, but like, you know, just Well, you also shipped a bunch of product updates today, too, right? What were the highlights? I mean, a lot of highlights, but the things that I was super excited about, one was offset vector because we've been getting requests from that uh from the start of Figma. Yeah.

And then also for dev modem MCP we made a bunch of improvements and you know it's interesting with dev mode MCP. I mean this is one where uh the team was like yeah I think it's time to release it and you know we kind of did the walkthrough. This is for MCP servers to AI agents essentially. Yeah.

Basically it lets you translate uh you know designs to code. Yep. And pull that in via MCP. Yep. And uh kind of an extension of our dev mode functionality and I was nervous uh because I just felt like we have so much to build out still and we do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's been great to see the reception.

Yeah, the reception has been really positive. And then today we made some more improvements to it. But this is just the start. There's a lot more coming on dev mode. Yeah, we were talking. We were talking about this earlier uh kind of making the argument.

I think we both agreed that uh Figma fits the traditional definition of like a platform that was design was I think defined by Microsoft. Uh this idea that the value that's created on top of the product is greater than the product the value that the product captures.

Um but how do you think that's going to change or what is the shape of it right now? Now, I know that there are we we have friends who run agencies that probably wouldn't exist if Figma did not exist. I'm sure they would find a way, but there like they have built a whole company and business around it.

Uh, and they're obviously incredibly synergistic with you. Every single every single thing that I've done in my career. Yeah. Arguably Jord's career is is like I don't think I've ever closed like even Figma. I always love using it in the browser because it's just as good. I don't think I've ever closed the tab open.

Figma has just been like, you know, 99. 9% like Yeah. It's your operating system. Yeah, it's your operating system. Yeah, I love love love hearing that obviously. Uh but also I mean it's it's it's folks like you who are in the product so much every day that give us the best feedback and we learn from it.

And the thing about designers is they are so thoughtful with their feedback. Yeah. And they really helped steer uh us and really orient us towards the right things to build. And then you know of course you got to also take some bets where everyone's saying one thing and you're going to do another thing.

But uh or or things that you know people aren't thinking about yet and so we try to do a mix. Yeah. Uh but it's the feedback from designers I think is consistently just like probably some of the best feedback in the world. I saw big it was crazy. Standing room only and standing ovations. It was like Woodstock.

It was crazy. Um I want to talk about organizational design in the age of AI. Um how is the org structure changing if any at all? Um, I imagine that you have your own team of designers and then developers and front end and backend down to hardcore WebGL folks, right?

And there's some sort of, you know, uh, uh, different tiers and different groups and product groups, but how does AI fit in? How does it change it? Obviously with Figma make it's kind of its own product team, but then I imagine that there are folks using AI all over the organization.

So, how do you think about AI playing a role either as a vertical product focus or horizontal slice or support teams? Like how are you tussling with that? I think it's got to be kind of uh many things at once.

So uh one dynamic that's always interesting is uh you have to motivate research by having uh you know great product applications but also you know if you don't have the research done sometimes people go ah I can't build the product application part yet and I think you just have to break that chicken and egg. Sure.

you have to um you know motivate by showing here's what's possible and then you have to also uh try to break through and find new ways to do research uh so that you're able to inspire people on the product side and it's just a virtuous loop if you can get it right but the um the thing I'd say more broadly on organizations beyond even just Figma is you know the core thesis of Figma is like over the last decade we've had this point of view that as the inputs to software change uh as more people are creating software as there's just an exponentially more amount of software in the world then design craft point of view that's the differentiator and I think that there's a really interesting dynamic that we're observing you know is like two decades ago uh design was lipstick on a pig you know make it pretty and maybe a decade ago the conversation shifted to okay design's how it works you got to really think about design through a whole process and designers were like yeah We've always been saying this, but finally everyone else kind of got it.

And then now I think it's literally it's how you win or lose. Mhm. Yeah. And I think there's um if you look at some of the companies that are doing the best, they uh you know, some many of which have been on your show. I familiar it is my number one complaint between many of the modern products.

I wind up making a making a decision not on the foundational technology but instead on the user experience UI which feels crazy in the age of benchmarks and like something that's so quantifiable and yet I find myself making decisions based on the unquantifiable.

John John Lily had a had a post earlier uh congratulating uh you and the team. Uh he said in a 2003 interview about the iPod Steve Jobs famously said design is not just what it looks like and feels like design is how it works.

M he said that you just built like around this like core idea from from absolutely but I think it's evolving. I think it's now how you win. Yeah.

And the companies that are understanding that I think are just we're seeing them outperform and the ones that are sort of like catching up uh they're investing a lot in design and not just in the design team and how to get everyone in the organization to be part of the design process.

And I think this is really interesting for the designers role because designers are the ones who are then going to have to lead the charge. Yeah. That's going to be a lot of power and we're going to start seeing so many more designer CEOs. Yeah.

So many more designoriented folks who are, you know, leading and shaping directions of the future of software and of companies more broadly because every company's becoming a software company now. Yeah. And I just think that um uh it's it's going to be quite a shift.

I I suspect we're already seeing this a little bit, but you know, maybe not at the level of magnitude of, you know, Zach throwing these offers at uh researchers, but like but like I think there's a parallel at a different scale. Yeah. Uh on design. I think that the design talent wars are heating up. Yep.

And people are realizing that they have to get ahead. Yeah. Yeah. It really I mean the the like clearest example here is despite how far Gen AI has come and how many new capabilities there are incredible designers are more in demand than ever.

It's like you just get hit up all the time and I think there's like few people in my rolodex that I'm like these people are truly incredible but like good luck recruiting them because like they have 50 other offers and and infinite optionality. Yeah. Talk to me about research.

you mentioned doing research in the context of the of of Figma and I'm interested to know and this dates back to Evans Evans work before I was thinking about the WebGL example I was thinking about you know watching GPT3 come out GPT4 and kind of understanding capabilities research like walk me through the understanding of like how do you think about design translating to tokens and then AIM like how do you even test all these new functionalities like you can operate on pixels diffusion models or tokens and HTML.

There's so many different angles like what does research actually look like in the Figma context? Yeah.

Um without sharing too much uh I I think one of the high level framing might be you know diffusion models uh are excellent uh in just like if you look at sort of uh some of the things that we've seen with diffusion the results over time I mean it it's really felt like more of an exponential um obviously with LM's whether it be language or uh toy problems and code and math uh I that feels like an exponential Yeah, I think that uh neither is quite the approach for design just yet.

I mean, obviously with LMS, sure, you know, we use uh models to generate uh make outputs in make. Yeah. And Figma make we're super excited about and I think it's the ideal case because you go from zero to one. Yep.

But we are still in a world where uh there are constraints and to actually get to the point where you're differentiating the output where you're adding that craft that point of view. Yep. uh you know the financial models don't get you there. Yep.

And even if they were to be able to increase quality of visual output, I I think it actually only makes design more powerful.

Y uh because if you had you know five different designers in this room who are experts of their craft and they're all looking at uh you know some wonderfully uh generated design that was actually very good which is not maybe where we're at now. Yeah.

They probably have five different points of view and if that's how you're going to stand out is your design craft, your brand, your marketing. Yeah.

Um I think it requires intentionality and systems thinking not just in the design and software context but even beyond cultural uh business constraints and so you know we have in the front of the New York Stock Exchange today the sign design is everyone's business. Yep. It's so true. Design went public.

It also does seem particularly like uh reinforcement learning resistant because there's no like taste benchmarkeristic. It's nondeterministic. Yeah. How did you think about uh adding to your board uh heading into the IPO and beyond?

Every single uh investor uh that that led various rounds from from Andrew to to Danny to Mimoon talked about your thoughtfulness around choosing the right partners at each stage. And I'm and and I know you added Mike Kger and and Bill and I'd love to to Louise too.

And yeah, we're super fortunate to have just the most incredible board. We also have two other independents. Lynn, she's the former CMO of Salesforce and on some other incredible boards, too. Uh Kelly, uh Kelly was the former CFO at Cisco. Oh, wow. And uh they are are just powerhouses. They're amazing.

Uh and yeah, I'm just my mindset whether it be on the VC side, uh independent side, uh although I think as of right now, everyone's now independent. Um technically as a few hours ago, yeah, a few hours ago with the with our Gavl, um changed everything.

But uh yeah, I think that you're looking for folks that you can learn from. Yeah. folks that you love spending time with because the perfect board relationship is one where you know you're going to be calling them up with questions and you're going to really enjoy spending the time and working through it with them.

Yeah. I don't think they have to be folks you don't have to find board members who are universally great at everything. That's a high ask. Yeah. But when you can find people that spike in certain areas uh and then you know what to call them for that is awesome.

And so I think we have a very great group on the board, also in our exec team where we just on all these different levels of the company have folks that really spike in different areas and then coming together they uh really have they can really help everyone in the group get to the right decision. Yeah.

Do you think your team pushed NY to the limit? You can't walk anywhere in the building without seeing like either the most iconic merch on the back of somebody down on the trading floor or, you know, this like meticulously designed sign pointing you to like a storage closet or something like that.

You know, I I uh I had some early previews, but it's nothing like walking around for real. I mean, this was incredible to probably the best this place has ever looked. I I haven't been here before.

uh you know first time so I can't comment on that but I thought today looked exceptional and they were great great to work with. It was great. Yeah. Uh talk about the evolution of the company culture over just the entire journey.

I mean, I have to imagine that like just the vibe changed from being, you know, pre uh pre-release for four years and then and then growing on this kind of steady trajectory where it was obviously tier one after tier one coming in, but never felt like super overhyped and never saw you on like the deified podcast circuit, if you know what I'm talking about.

Um, we're doing that right now. DeFi. Yeah, this is well you and Evan both both kept you know a fair a lower profile than other companies with your financial and everything performance and growth and so where do you see the company culture going uh from here on out?

Is anything changing or do you think there's an evolution or shift? Yeah, I mean I think you look at the folks that come to Figma. Yeah, we sort of shine this bat signal in the sky of uh through our product and the folks that are want to come work at Figma, a lot of them are people that use Figma. Yeah, of course.

It's a very creative team. Uh we're very oriented towards craft. Uh we I think as a group our very first principles oriented. We're in the weeds, but we can talk about strategy. People need to be able to go across all those different levels.

And I think very growth mindset, very humble, very kind, and uh I I just think we're builders. Yeah. And I uh yeah, I would imagine that in the future that will all be the same. Um I I don't see why that would change. The things that, you know, I think about a lot right now are just clarity.

I think that um in order to this is true for I think a lot of organizations just the more clarity you can create uh for your team both top down uh but also noticing and creating processes for stuff to bubble up from everyone in the organization and then have it be in the middle and quickly have a great cycle time where you're able to figure out okay what is the right decision here and progress that's what will make it so that you're able to adapt rapid rap in an era where everyone has to adapt rapidly right now.

Things are changing that fast. Yeah. Uh how did the the product demo go the other day with with the investment bankers? Are they are they converts uh converts now? You know, I did have one uh investor come up to me in the road show and say that they wanted to be a designer now. Wow.

So, I don't know if they actually quit their job and, you know, uh started. It's never too late. That's what I told them. It's never too late. I was like, "You can be. It's okay. " Yeah. Yeah. For me, we didn't have time to go deep on it, but like I was excited to hear that. I had never taken a design class.

I'd never uh considered myself a designer. I knew I was creative. And I did have this moment like in 2021. And I was like, "Wait, am I a designer? I like use Figma a lot. I make a lot of designs.

" And I it was this like realization that it was like the reason you know a lot of like what what um all the people involved here talking about today is like everybody's everybody can be a designer, everybody can create things, make things uh and it was true from the very first moment that I use the product.

Um and just balancing that you talked about having team members that have that range to be able to talk about strategy and then get in the weeds and Figma the product.

What makes it so incredible is the range where you get invited to a file, you just land in it, you're there, you can see your buddies there in the same file uh all all together with your cursors.

Uh but then as you understand the product more, there's no I don't think I certainly haven't hit the limit of what the product's capable and I don't know that maybe anyone has.

So yeah, I mean I think it's it's there's this tension always of you got to make things both approachable uh and you know you also have to cater to the most power user functionality and for folks that are real power users of the product how do you make sure that um you do both and I think that um that's always a balance we're trying to strike.

One thing that helps though is pulling out new areas and use cases um into their own products. That lets them breathe, but it also makes it Figma design focused on product design. So, for example, Fig Jam was the first one we did it for and we're like had noticed for a long time.

Okay, people were doing brainstorming, whiteboarding. I would make the jankiest whiteboard diagrams and like I would pre-esign graphics and then I would like make them look nice and then you had to like copy and paste them all in this like weird way. And then you guys made Fig Jam. I was like, "Okay, cool.

That's I was like making this myself in the product for years. We saw that with many people and then uh by taking it and bringing it to his own space. The other thing that we thought about was during pandemic times especially people were treating Figma design like a space to hang out in.

This is what I told Chris people watching the stream six different people. I told this to I told this to Chris. I Figma during the pandemic era was like a virtual office where I would open I'd open my computer after my my son would go to bed. It'd be late at night. I'd pop it open. Figma would be open.

I'd see Brandon in there. I'd see his little cursor. I'd go over, put a comment. Hey, what's up? How you doing? I would mess with him. I'd change the button colors on him. I'd move stuff around, you know, but it was just like it felt like a virtual office.

I ultimately didn't adopt any other virtual office tools because I was like, well, I kind of I think at one point we even designed like an office in Figma that everybody would jump in. You could move your character around a little bit. Exactly. I mean, that was part of the insight for how we differentiated Fig Jam.

You know, I told the team, you know, maybe a month before launch, hey, like our differentiator for Fig Jam is going to be fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember having a board call and I told, you know, the team this and everyone looks at me like, "Oh man, you've been sheltering in place way too much, buddy. " Yeah.

Because that was I mean, there was a bunch of companies that were dedicated to whiteboarding and I don't even I haven't heard about them in a while. But uh it wasn't like a category you just waltz into, you know?

Well, and and to team's credit, I mean, I said this and at first there was skepticism and then people were like, "Okay, let's do it. " We did a one-day design sprint camp with like, I don't know, 30 ideas or something like that.

I think four or five of them shipped uh including many of the features that are like the hallmark features of Fig Jam uh and stuff that's really gone very broad and like cursor chat for example where we see that pattern replicated in other surfaces now and that all came out of one day.

So it's like you when you got this amazing creative team making it so that you're able to unblock them and just let them go and if you just point them in a direction uh it can be incredible what you find. Yeah, we have to let you go. I want to thank you for having me.

I want to talk about uh everything from quantum computing to Dyson spheres, but that will be for the next one. We would love for you to hit the gong with this mallet if you would do us the honor. I don't know. We might want to use the uh we might want to use the regular mallet.

I want to I want to keep the the precious gong safe. There's I guess we'll use this for the really serious stuff. Yeah, use that one. There's a mallet right there. Okay. Oh, there we go. There we go. Iconic moment. All right. Have a good night, everybody. And thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.

So great to be here. You're a legend, guys. Congratulations. You guys rock. Incredible leader. Uh have a great rest of your day. You guys are taping. Uh we are taping. We are live. We're still taping. We're still live. Great time there. But we'll we'll talk to you more after the stream. Thank you. You're the man.

Congratulations. It's fantastic. And we will bring in our next guest. Who we got? Who do we have? I think we have Lynn from Nicy. Do we have our next guest available?