Joe Weisenthal on a weak August jobs report: manufacturing down 78K, rate cuts now near-certain

Anyway, we had some fun with that. Uh, well, we have our first guest of the show, Joe Weisenthal, on the phone. On the phone. Wired on the play. Hey, we got Joe. Pull up this picture uh that we just commissioned of Joe. There we go. That's real. And it's a real picture. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah.

You look You sound as good as you look. I understand why you me. I had a very Yeah. Yeah. I had a very active summer. I didn't want to reveal it to uh everyone, but happy to have you with the exclusive on my new look. That's fantastic. Incredible.

Uh, always great to catch up and always uh I'm surprised you're away from your terminal on a day like today. Uh, but yeah, it's jobs day. It's the Super Bowl. It's the It's Joe's Day. It is the Super Bowl. You know, it is the Joe day. It is the Super Bowl day. It is the jobs day.

You know, after 8:30, you know, obviously there's the initial hit and then there's the rush and then there's the market reaction. And as as much as it is the Super Bowl, by the, you know, by the middle of the day, I'm already like, okay, I'm I'm good for the day.

I had such a such a high from following the numbers and seeing all the reactions and reading all the tweets, etc. that it's like, all right, I can sort of run some errands in the afternoon on jobs day. There we go. Well, thank you for squeezing this, Aaron. So, yeah, take us through the numbers.

I mean, the market reaction, the the Dow is down half a percent right now. NASDAQ's off 23. Bitcoin's up 1%. So yeah, you know, it's an interesting So like the number was not great obviously uh coming in uh solidly below expectations.

I think everyone sort of had a feeling it was going to I think there's just been a lot of anxiety about the state of the labor market right now. You know, people talk about the so-called whisper number where it's like, okay, here is the forecast that Wall Street has, but here's what everyone sort of really thinks.

was pretty clear that I think a lot of people just sort of thought it could be a miss.

Um the uh last month actually was revised up a little bit but the month before was revised down substantially such that uh June was actually uh now negative which is the first time since uh I think December 2020 that we had a month of job losses which I think is uh interesting.

Once again um healthc care employment so that added 31,000 jobs in the month. So what that means is that once again if you exclude health care the economy overall has been shedding jobs for some time which is including manufacturing. Yeah. So manufacturing employment down 78,000 so far this year.

It was another decline this month. Look, like this is what I would say about manufacturing, which is that I wouldn't nec, let's say a tariff strategy were going to work um in the long term and we were going to have this sort of, you know, strong re-industrialization of the United States economy.

I wouldn't expect it to work right away. I mean, the tariffs were unveiled on April.

But what we can say is that so far those numbers to the extent that this is a real priority of the administration or policy makers or others to the extent that this is a real priority priority it's clearly going in the wrong direction in 2025. Yeah.

Um also I mean last night there was that dinner at the White House with all the tech leaders and the numbers that were thrown out were staggering.

600 billion from Apple, 600 billion from Meta, but that doesn't necessarily mean massive jobs growth because building a data center might just be a multi-billion dollar uh check that's written to TSMC.

This is the funny thing with the sort of data center AI sort of thinking about its massive impact because first of all, you're obviously correct that these huge checks don't necessarily mean massive jobs growth. And if we're going to take seriously the promise of AI, it shouldn't lead to jobs growth. Yeah.

The test of AI is arguably jobs destruction, right? It's about what jobs that currently exist in the economy can be replaced by something that we call AI.

And so not only do the data centers not add to uh employment in a meaningful way, if those turn out to be good investments, if there's a payoff, if they drive productivity, you would expect them, you would almost hope them to be labor market negative.

Maybe I mean there is a world where where it's like a a worker plus AI is additive and you can underwrite hiring that. So there is a hiring. Well, in our conversation, so we talked with I'm not a I Yes. Yeah.

I'm not a doomer like in the sense I I'm skeptical of this I find myself just from a sort of pure thinking about it through the economics lens of this idea of oh AI is going to lead to mass unemployment just for all the obvious reasons that anyone can say I have cost savings because of AI well I'm going to like spend that money somewhere yeah but the question is do these investments actually free up resources or enable new things that uh expand our capacity of what we could do with labor that's really the question more than the direct job creation.

Yeah, Jordy. Uh yeah, one uh point we we interviewed Palanteer CFO and obviously Karp as well yesterday and they said something like revenue is obviously up massively in the last few years. Headcount is only up 12% and they said specifically we expect to have fewer people in the future.

Yeah, I saw that quote which I found to be really striking and it is sort of again this sort of very weird condition. Maybe we've talked about it before.

I'm not sure not, but it does seem like we're in some sort of uncharted territory here with respect to the fact that, you know, I don't know what's happening on a given day. Okay, maybe the NASDAQ's down a little bit, but you have all these names that are at or very close to all-time highs.

any other time in history uh I think where you're talking about sub sector near all-time highs you are also associating it with a massive expansion of or at least a significant expansion of headcount typically this is just sort of how it is in any industry tech or otherwise you intuitively link stock performance with headcount and so it's interesting that here is a situation in which not only is is this being articulated this sort of divorce between revenue growth and employment growth but also it's not it's not just a theory.

It's clearly been happening in the industry for some time already. Yeah. I wonder what Trump's like bull case is. I haven't heard him kind of reconcile what's going on in AI and re-industrialization. There's like broad strokes of like let's bring back the jobs.

There's not a lot of early evidence of that, but I I'd be interested to hear from people in the administration about just like paint me a picture of what it actually looks like. What does the American jobs economy look like in four years if everything plays out like you want? Like what what what are people doing?

Because it does seem like that we're going through a period of change.

Uh I don't know what about uh no I mean I do I think I to and in defense of the administration right a lot of people are I think people all over the place are scratching their heads over this question because what I think people want but what the dream is when they close their eyes and they want to see an economy in which you don't have to be an absolute superstar computer science PhD um from uh Carnegie Melaner or whatever or Stanford to get a great job.

there what should be some sort of broad middle of decent employment whatever it is and into defense of the administration I don't see many of people anywhere articulating well what that ultimately uh what sectors or what ultimately drive that sort of employment abundance so to speak the youth unemployment uh data as well is absolutely brutal Bloomberg economics had had a chart showing it basically ramping in a way that it hasn't Uh it's youth unemployment is rising at the fastest pace in in the past 15 years other other than the pandemic sitting at um sitting at what's the number 10 and a 12.

5% between the ages of 16 and 24. Yeah. No, I think it's it's important to so there has been this debate in the labor market which is very important and interesting which is we know that the pace of job creation has slowed. No one is disputing this fact.

Every month we're you know it's just the number of new jobs in the United States is uh going down. Then the question is well maybe some of that is because of the changes in immigration practices or maybe some of this is has to do with just sort of normalization of the economy after a crazy few years.

And so maybe some would argue that the pace of job creation slowing down does not automatically say okay we're heading into a recession. That being said, the question then the test then becomes, all right, what about just the ability to get a job if you want one?

And that's sort of essentially what the unemployment rate is. But it's interesting to watch some of these demographics that historically are sort of more marginal, more vulnerable. The youth unemployment rate is one. The black unemployment rate is another. That also that was at its highest since October 2021.

And so even though the headline unemployment 4.

3% still pretty low by historical standards, what we're seeing is this deterioration of the uh of the job finding ability for some of these sectors of the economy that tend to you know maybe the uh the sort of first to let go or some of these more marginal uh marginal um marginal segments of the labor force.

Is there a narrative coming together about what's driving the uh health care employment numbers and the healthcare job growth because it yeah it feels like a lot of our elders are moving beyond UNK status to I mean they there weren't massive layoffs America because I mean there weren't a lot of like healthcare layoffs during co if anything those were the people that kept their jobs and then healthcare isn't particularly sensitive to interest rates before we get into this too much.

I mean, I think the big thing is is CEOs broadly, even if they're seeing massive revenue growth, it's hard to go out on an earnings call and say, "We're seeing massive efficiency gains. We're we're leading in AI in our industry.

We're getting all these benefits from AI and then be like, well, okay, our our employees are getting so much more efficient. " And then be like, "Well, you also are ramping why are you ramping headcount the same, you know, same way or or um Right. Right.

Well, I think so on this point specifically, I also do think there was maybe you even though I think many people would say that the formal Doge hasn't accomplished particularly much. Maybe other people would argue otherwise.

I just think there is just a quote vibe shift on quote so to speak where a lot of people are just sort of proud of the fact that they're keeping um head across all of these things.

And I think sort of Elon Musk may have sort of uh shot the starting gun on this vibe that everyone can look within their organization and say, "Do we really need all of the people that we've hired, particularly after the boom years of 21, 22, and arguably 2023. " But I agree on the healthcare employment standpoint.

I mean, I would say two things. One is, yeah, it's the uh it's the aging population. There does not see it's hard to imagine what would slow this train down. I guess it's slowing down a little bit because of course there have been some of those Medicaid uh cuts to Medicaid growth etc.

So uh there is reasonable to think that maybe at the margins the monthly numbers of new headcount into the space is going to not be as fast as it was. But it is very hard to envision what could happen in the short or medium term.

That wouldn't automatically mean this sector is just going to need a lot more people every month.

I'm certain if you talk to any sort of health care network of any sort that's on the ground in any community, I'm certain still today in September 2025 that they would identify acquiring talent as one of their big challenges right now. Uh talk to me about what we're seeing from the Fed.

The uh poly market has the number of rate cuts uh spiking today. three potential rate cuts in 2025 spiked from uh 18% up to 38% and uh and the chance of just a single cut is is falling as well as two cuts. So Paul is certainly expecting more cuts to come and most people Yeah. most people pricing I mean it's pricing cut.

Yep. Yes. So I think you know it's funny the last time uh I was chatting with you guys was from Jackson Hole and that was a really interesting moment because you hit you if you talk to a lot of the regional Fed presidents like I don't know like there's still so inflation still looks kind of warm.

Um it's not totally obvious that a cutting cycle or certainly an aggressive cutting cycle but you said I remember you said you said the labor market is clearly softening. this is the case for cuts like you you you uh you said that and laid that out. Thank you. Thank you.

I I if I said something smart I appreciate you remembering it. Uh but you know Paul's speech at Jackson I called it. That's that's the main takeaway here. I called it.

Uh no but you know it is it's uh Paul's speech at Jackson the whole clearly clearly centered risks to the downside with the job market and I just think everyone has come around to that view.

And so now the question is especially in the wake of today's number is that not only does September seem like a lock, it is for a rate cut.

I think the decisions in like 10 10 days, the question is could they go 50 basis points, could they go aggressive kind of like they did uh last September and then also I think uh October which people thought maybe they take a pause after a race cut that is now perceived as a good chance.

So I think this sort of world really is coming around to arguably the Paul uh the Powell and then the Christopher Waller view. He's probably been the most dovish uh of the Fed governors over the last six months. He's been pretty forceful and saying look um the labor market is clearly softening and rate cuts are due.

And I think right now um it's the uh it's the Waller Powell sort of view that's winning out in markets and the expectation is they'll be able to get the rest the rest of the FOMC behind. Uh do you have any insight into what's going on with the Treasury doing a bond buyback to lower yield?

Uh someone in the chat is uh joking that they're printing money to buy back printed money. I don't know if that's real. Same old same old. I I you know if I to be honest I I do not put I think these things tend to be very marginal and sort of plumbing related.

You know, ultimately the sort of long end of the yield curve comes down to the market's view of the inflation trajectory and what the Fed is expected to have to do to maintain essentially its 2% goals. Some of these Treasury moves, you know, they may have to do with liquidity, etc.

But I my advice to people when I've encountered these topics in the past is that generally these things are somewhat noise and to keep your eye on the ball about what's happening in the economy over the medium term and how you expect the Fed to respond to.

So what's the next uh date on the calendar that we need to be tracking? Is it the next Fed meeting that's the big news or is there going to be more data? Yeah, so that's in Yeah. So that's in two weeks.

You know, the thing in the meantime, what I would say is, uh, yesterday we had the weekly initial jobless claims data that's been creeping higher. I think you should keep that comes out every Thursday.

Um, and I think people should keep watching that because one of the ways that the economy has been characterized for really like over a year now is they talk about this low hiring, low firing equilibrium, which is that there aren't a lot of layoffs, but also it's not a great time, you know, not a lot, as we've been talking about, not a lot of headcount expansion.

The initial jobless claim has been picking up a little bit lately. Yesterday we got 237K, I believe. That was ahead of it was a bit higher than expectations. And you don't have to wait.

You know, like I say, jobs report, Super Bowl once a month, but you get these mini Super Bowls every Thursday where they talk about initial jobless claims. It's no year data. Oh, one other thing, so keep an eye on that. Yep.

Um, also this coming Tuesday, there's something called the and I don't remember what this acronym stands for, but it's QCEW benchmarker division. So, it probably says for quarterly census employment something.

This is actually how they sort of reset labor market data because we know it's all very noisy, but every quarter they draw from actual um a a complete sample of everyone who's paid into the uh unemployment system.

And so they get this very big snapshot and it could show there's this view it could show that the pace of job creation for all of 2024 going back has was lower than expected.

So they're they're always doing these revisions, but I suspect that Tuesday will be interesting in terms of what uh what it says backwards looking about just how much employment uh there really is right now.

Yeah, I'm I'm looking at the quarterly census of employment wages and it says that Santa Clara, California has the largest fourth quarter over the year wage gain at 15%. And now I'm thinking if uh if Menllo Park will see a massive spike in average wages because of the the AI trade deals.

It's just they hire five people at a billion dollars a year. Yeah. Speaking of big pay packages, did the did the new Elon pay package feel low to you? Yeah, they're just paying them a trillion dollars. What's the point of reinccorporating from uh from Delaware to Texas if they're only going to bump your target a Yeah.

Should something. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere where you can really where an executive can really get paid for the work that they do. Look, for once, I want 100% of the dollars that I create in the shareholder value here.

And were were you disappointed to see that the White House snubbed Meek Mill on the invite to that dinner, the AI dinner last night? It felt like they really it was a big FU to Philadelphia broadly. Yeah, I I would agree. I was shocked. I was shocked by that.

Uh it's time it's time to shake that room up in terms of who uh who are the big tech names that get invited to these things. But clearly our upand cominging AI entrepreneurs uh you know uh regardless of what industry they're currently in or had been in uh need to have a need to have a voice at the table.

I do think going forward too we really need to have inflation data excellent and low power.

Um just generally when when you see these sort of when you sort of when you see these sorts of wage gains so concentrated we need to start having a formal you know on the Bloomberg and be CPI 4 CPI 4 CPI X-Men low power that's the kind of data that we need.

I mean there's also a $10 billion tender offer going on at OpenAI.

So, you know, if you're in the market for San Francisco, somebody somebody was running the numbers and and showing that there's like there's there's only I think a few hundred homes that are in the like4 to$10 million range in the in San Francisco competitive and and and so imagine you just flood the market with like $10 billion in like fresh cash and you get a bunch of cash buyers.

I mean, yeah. Uh last question, we'll let you go. There's something in the chat. Someone's talking about the US Open, which I I guess is uh US US. Okay. United States open market operations. United States open. Yeah. Oh, open. Yeah. Maybe uh isn't there like a real estate company? Maybe it has something to do with that.

I'm not sure. Anyway, but do you have a prediction? They want to know. They want to know if you're watching tennis and if you have a prediction or favorite, who are you rooting for? I don't I'm so embarrassed.

Every summer I try to get into tennis and I actually take a few tennis lessons every summer and it's like this is the year I'm going to go to the US Open. This is the year I'm really going to pay attention.

No, I I said we have nothing to despite my efforts year after year, once again, nothing positively contributed to this discourse. Yeah, me too. I I have no idea, but I uh hopefully I will see some more uh great capital allocators photographed in paparazzi uh shots. That's what I watch the open for.

I watch the paparazzi feeds. As do we all. As do we all. Anyway, anyway, uh Joe, enjoy uh enjoy your afternoon. We love you. We'll talk to you soon. Talk soon. Talk to you soon. Byebye. Bye legend. Um, did you see linear? Yes, it's a purposeful built tool for planning and building products.

Meet the system for modern software development. Streamline issues, projects, and product road maps. Start building with linear. It really is a it really is a crystal ball for your road map. Yeah, it is. Um, anyway, what did you see? Uh, this is interesting.

Uh, Guido Richter uh is doing a hunger strike outside of anthropic. Uh he said, "Hi, my name's Guido. I'm on hunger. " Couldn't get in. He couldn't. He said, "I'm on hunger strike outside of the offices of the AI company Anthropic right now because we are in an emergency.

Anthropic and other AI companies are racing to create ever more powerful AI systems. These AIs are being used to inflict serious harm in our society today and threat to why inflict increasing increasing we'll get to that. I think it's very likely that he's hitting rate limits on it that might make sense.

Um and uh threaten to inflict incre inflict increasingly greater damage tomorrow. Experts are warning us. Okay, we're going to trust the experts here.

Experts are warning us that this race to ever more powerful general intelligence puts our lives and well-being at risk as well as the lives and well-being of our loved ones. They are warning us that the creation of extremely powerful AI threatens to destroy life on Earth. Okay, Tyler, what you got?

So, I think it also could be, you know, Dario just said they're not selling AI to China anymore. So, he might just be uh, you know, SPV holder and he's interesting, you know, mad about Yeah. less revenue from not selling internationally. That makes sense. I mean, this is usually incredible market.

a public company, you can't really take out a short position and become an activist. This is incredible marketing for anthropic. Yeah. Do you think this is like some sort of like mischief style stunt like to promote the company? Yeah. You if you Yeah, you need to get protesters.

It's so funny to single out anthropic, the most safetyoriented. Yeah, they are the most safetyoriented like why not just like like XAI is like we will just put everything out like it's it's uh it it the first name is actually Adolf Mcca Mcca. Yeah. Um anyways, a lot of lot of big buzzwords in here.

Uh uh power power bottom dad says this is so crazy I'm kind of for it. Yeah. Does the does the post look ones-shotted at all? Victoria says, "Bro, you're on a fast. If it's good for you. If you get to seven days, it'll do wonder wonders for your health. Is this bodybuilding related?

" People People are just responding to his post with pictures of their food. Okay. Oh, that's so mean. Uh, wait, but are there any uh M dashes in the post? Zero M dashes. It's not this, it's that. Nothing like that. Okay. I mean, it basically says pure the same thing over and over and over. Okay.

Um, kind of a I I wish he put this into Claude and and kind of like up Guido Reich Reich Reich. Interesting. Well, good luck to him. Hopefully he uh dries out and cuts down on the body fat, gets uh extra diced. It uh we, you know, say it's bulking season, but it's not right for everyone.

Some people got to cut and no better way to cut than go on an aggressive path. He is the co-founder of a company called Stop AI. Mhm. And he has he has one connection on LinkedIn. Stop AI. Oh, wait. You're connected to him. No, no, no. I wish. Okay. His only experience on his LinkedIn uh is has he stopped AI?

Has he stopped anything else? Yeah. It'd be crazy if like his last job was like co-founder at like stop NFTTS or like stop time travel. He's like I was successful. We don't have time travel. Stop teleportation technology. Stop hypersonic planes in America. There's not much on not much on Guido.

He is interested in LinkedIn news according to his interests on LinkedIn. Interesting. Interesting. Well, um, one AI you should not stop is putting your sales tax on autopilot with Numeral HQ. Sales tax on autopilot. Spend less than five minutes per month on sales tax compliance. Go to numeralhq. com.

Um, on the more optimistic side of things, Everyday Astronaut has been reflecting on the Starship program over the last week and one thing has become obvious to him. This is from Everyday Astronaut, a fantastic space related content creator.

Uh he says SpaceX is enjoying the freedom to try and fail in a way they couldn't with Falcon 9. Doing anything experimental on the Falcon 9 was risky because it was SpaceX's only source of income. It was their lifeline, their workhorse.

Making any tweaks to the Falcon 9 to try and land a booster back in the day was a delicate balance. Don't push the envelope too hard because it could lead to a failure of the primary mission, which did happen twice. Yes, I believe that they blew up a satellite that Facebook was putting up.

was very dramatic and kind of foreshadows the the showdown and the potential MMA fight. Uh but uh of course like they have a contract and I I think the money flowed appropriately. The companies weren't actually upset at each other, but it was kind of a crazy crossover moment in tech.

Uh anyway, uh Everyday Astronaut says, "When SpaceX first landed a booster almost 10 years ago, they were fairly they were they were fairly slow to refly and those first nonblock 5 boosters were only capable of a couple of reflights.

This gave pause to some in the industry community fearing all of this reusability hype wasn't going to pan out. But SpaceX learned from every landing attempt to develop their block 5 Falcon 9 which has now gone on to have a single booster fly 30 missions. Absolutely unheard of. That's wild.

Now imagine if SpaceX could have had the freedom to not worry about flying customer payloads to get data during Falcon 9's reusability campaign. Imagine if they could have tested engine out procedures or push booster re-entry profiles or try hot staging or what or what have you.

This is the phase that SpaceX is now in during the Starship program. I know we hear the talking point of quote today's payload is data and it could seem like a gimmick or excuse even but that's a freedom almost no rocket program has had before.

to just uh to know you can just try things out, fly real life hardware without bankrupting the company is the ultimate development platform to be able to push engine out capabilities, remove heat shield tiles on purpose. And we saw that with the video is like this crazy like garbage floating around.

They removed heat shield tiles. The thing barely made it back uh because they're pushing it to the absolute limit. Uh they're not just trying to reach orbit. They're trying to do something that's never been done before. Build a rapidly reusable rocket. a rocket that can land and refly.

This could have never this has never been done before. And honestly, it's silly to think you could do something like this without trying some extreme things. That's what we're seeing today. And that's extremely exciting to me.

I can't wait to see version three of Starship fly because uh they've learned so many lessons already and they have a factory capable of making rockets at scale. And we just get to sit back and watch the cook. It's an exciting time to be alive. Kitchen's open. Kitchen's open. and they're cooking.

Uh anyway, you want you want us to take us through the next few timeline posts, Jordy, what you got? Absolutely. I I just feel bad because we kind of glossed over some of uh Allen's trades. 2021 bought a house in Carb for 70 million, sold it for 96 million 2 years later. Wait, Carpenteria. Yeah, 96 million.

That's a huge number. Wow. That must Another one bought a house for 7 million in 2017, sold for 11 in 2018. Another one uh bought uh rebought a house for 14 million in 2021, resold it for 2021 or sorry 21 million in 2023. And some of these so so quick, you know, buy in buy in 2024, sell in 2025, uh $10 million gain.

I mean, she's just pushing this home hills same year. She bought she bought a house for 20 million in 2022, sold it for 36 million in the same year. That's great. an absolute dog. The Usher House. Usher listed the home for sale uh for $35 million in July 2019. We just can't quit the m the mansion section today.

Should we talk about the house of the month? Um what else is in here? Why don't you call call Eric right now? Oh, yeah. Okay. He's ready. Yeah. Well, let's get Eric Lyman on the phone. I got an important question for him. Uh we saw the news about the billion dollar run rate and we just had one question to ask.

Let's get Eric Glyman, the CEO of RAMP, on the phone. Hey, Eric, how you doing? You're live. You're live. We're We're live. What's going on? Uh, give us the update. There's some milestone that just dropped yesterday, I believe. It is. Uh, we we couldn't be happier.

Ramp is now doing more than a billion dollars a year in revenue. Let's go. Congratulations. Uh, I just have one question. Is the job finished? Job's not finished, guys. Not finished. We're just getting started. Fantastic. Well, I'll let you get back to work. Thank you so much for Thank you for calling in.

We'll talk to you soon. Great to hear from you. All right. Cheers. Have a great weekend. You, too. Talk to you soon. Bye. It's not the weekend yet. It's not the weekend yet. Uh Mark Hannis has got a buddy from high school who's on his fifth AI startup in two years. No technical engineering background. He's an MBA.

hires engineers with a low budget to do all the work and build the product while he is CEO and manages just started a new AI education uh startup wish I could short I wonder how this will pan out. It could work. I don't know. Um depends on exactly what he's what he's doing, but it certainly is not the YC path.

Not the make something people want. It is a very uh management consultant, very MBA coded strategy. Yeah, good luck getting into YC with this strategy. Good luck. Good luck. Uh, Naval says, "If your smartest friends start saying crazy things, pay attention. A paradigm shift may be underway.

" I think he's talking about people getting oneshotted. You think that's it? Could be. I don't know. It might be, you know, he might be talking about AI, right? Like you you have really smart friends and they start saying crazy things like, you know, they discover. Yeah. All this other stuff. Not that, not that.

But actually like you know the idea of of super intelligence is a crazy thing to say. Uh but it might be real you know it might be it might be real and it might and it might start in your customer service organization with Finn.

ai the number one AI agent for customer service number one in performance benchmarks number one in competitive bayops number one ranking on G2. Um so we we covered the jobs gains. uh they were all part-time. Um full-time jobs dropped by 375 356K. Part-time jobs grew by 597K.