David Senra launches new conversation show — 'David Senra by David Senra' debuts with Daniel Ek episode

and grows your company to the next level. We have David Senra live in the TBPN Ultradome. We have a video that we're going to play. Bring him on down. Let's play the video of his newest addition to the collection to the history to the world of business and podcasting. Welcome to the show. What are we see?

24 hours post launch. Yeah. What are we watching here? Oh, it's it's a drill. What is this? You have Explain this video. the text. Yes. Yes, I played it. Okay. That's the video, but do you have the text that Rob uh put above it? What did What did he say? He said, "The right way is the hard way.

" Jerry Seinfeld uh intro for Yes. They bought a Rolodex. This is for your new show. Break it down for us. So, this is why I was excited to partner with Rob Moore and Andrew Hubman on this because I've been friends with them for like three years. Yeah.

And I know um he said, "I just wildly so don't break your new microphone. " Um so, I knew how serious they take their work. The first time I ever met Rob was in they invited me to Malibu to check out their new studio. We talked podcasting for nine straight hours. Yeah, that's not an exaggeration.

Um, we stayed at the same restaurant. We sat there for lunch and then we started talking podcasting and like four hours later the waitress is like, "We're serving dinner now. Do you want to stay? " And we're like, "Yes, we had lunch and dinner. " So, um, I didn't even know they were doing this.

They they know that I was like kind of anti-intro for a podcast. I just like want to get right to it. They're like, "We're going to make a bumper for you. " I was like, "I don't even know what a bumper is. " So, that's what they call this. And it's like I was like, "It's gotta be short though.

" Wait, that's the Oh, that's that's from the video, the intro video. Oh, it all makes sense now. I remember seeing that and I thought, "Oh, it's just CGI or something. " No, it's not CGI. That's the man. They bought a drill. They bought a Rolodex.

Then they printed out all a bunch of companies and the founder names of people I've covered on Founders. And then they did all the like the editing. And so the whole thing is like the idea behind it was, okay, you turn on Netflix, you hear that sound, right? Or HBO, you hear that sound. I'm cool with that.

I don't want a super long intro. Like I want a very wealthy audience and we got to get to the goddamn point. Um so yeah, I just love that. It's like an indication of like how serious we're taking the new show. No AI. The first made it with a drill. I'm I'm a human AI. Yeah. The first episode dropped uh Saturday. Sunday.

Sunday. They're coming out every other Sunday. Every other Sunday. How's the response been? Uh I'm like wired. I couldn't sleep last night. You couldn't sleep Saturday night, too. I saw I saw Dave. David I called David yesterday. sleep eight. com. Yes, get a pod 5 5-year warranty free trial.

I actually enjoyed your eight ad integrated into the Daniel A episode. I guess I was I guess I was in solidarity with you last night, David, cuz I put up a 55. I didn't even see I'm staying at a friend's house in Malibu right now and I don't even have my eight sleep. We got to we got to correct that.

But um yeah, it was so funny. Yesterday I called David. We're just catching up and we realized we were like 30 30 seconds on the same on the same row on the like 500 ft from each other. So, we were like, let's just pull over and and hang out. So, I I got to get the the immediate reaction.

But, no, it really is there's there's uh to me one of the most satisfying things is watching ultra talented people do a new thing and and just demonstrate the le the level that they're on. And you and Rob and Andrew have done that. No, I appreciate it. Congratulations.

Uh, on the note of like you gota you got busy people, you got to get right into it. Uh, talk to me about the decision for how you think about the first question. I was listening to Daresh over the weekend. Uh, he kicks it off with like a pretty quick intro, but he does he does introduce the guest.

Uh, my guest is Richard Sutton. He's the one that he's very Daresh is insanely talented. Insanely talented, especially for a young kid. He's And you know who else is a talented podcaster? Chris Williamson, friend of Oh, he's text me today. And Chris uh kicks off with no introduction. Thousand episodes.

A thousand episodes came out today with me. Wow. That's amazing. Uh what a run. Um but uh they but they do introductions very differently. Uh they do Chris kicks off with one short punchy like ungooable question basically like there's no right answer to the question.

He'll just say you know uh what is the value of hard work or what is your life's goal? And then the person just tees off and it gets you right in the episode. Darkeesh gives you a little bit more of an intro and they go back and forth and then he hits them with a question. Uh, how do you think about opening an episode?

Do you like the way you're doing it? Do you think it'll evolve? We obviously open with one of the most over the top openings. You're watching TVN. Uh, and it's like this crazy thing that just evolved. Uh, how do you think about it? All right. I think the important thing is like I have I'm not interviewing anybody. Yeah.

And so like that the the tagline is like conversations with the greatest living founders. I have zero energy to interview anybody. I have unlimited energy to have long form deep conversations. You guys have been on the receiving ends of this.

Like when we have dinner, it's not like, "Oh, we're going to talk for 30 minutes. " No, we talked for like four goddamn hours. And so that's why I think a lot of some people came out and they're like, "You're talking too much in the Daniel Ek episode. " It's just like a conversation. I like it's important though.

I I think the your opportunity is to not be It's tough if you're a podcast and people only watch for the guests. Yeah. That's that's not a good position to be in, right? People watch Joe Rogan.

There's a cohort of people that watch Joe Rogan just when they're just when Donald Trump's on, but but a huge amount of people are watching it because Joe Rogan, they're like, "Oh, who's he talking to? " Exact.

So, like I think somebody I saw they did analysis on like 2,000 of Joe's episodes and he spoke like you know 45 or something% of the time. Yep. It's just like the the whole genesis of this and I think I talked about it on the Daniel Ek episode.

It's because you know Patricky who again I think is the best business interviewer in the world. Like if I'm going to start an interview show and compete with him like that's just stupid. Like the main message of founders the founders podcast is like the importance of differentiation. Yep.

So, like there's been a million let's interview, you know, business people shows. I'm not I'm gonna lose that game. I only want to play a game that I can be the best in the world at. Y um and so what Patrick, you know, we've been really close friends. We're brothers. We talk every day. We've have a ton.

He's in these dinners with me. He's in these conversations and it happens over and over again. And he's he's mentioned to me for a few years. He said it before I was on Colossus.

He's just like, "Man, I really think, have you ever thought about doing a show where you talk to other people, not just you sitting in a room reading books and doing the crazy that you do? " Yeah. He's like, I've been around this like no one can have these conversations.

And so what really pushed me and I said it on the Daniel episode was me, him, and Daniel had this super intense 4hour dinner. I don't meet with anybody. When I the first time I met Michael Dell, I flew to to to Austin. Five hours. We talked for five hours. You think I sat You think I sat silent?

I can't sit silent for anything. And they don't want me to sit silent. The whole point is like you're like this weird like human AI with all this knowledge and they want to like prompt and like get me going. So, um, we get in the car cuz I'm we're leaving New York. I'm going back to Greenidge.

I'm staying at, uh, Patrick's house at night. And the first thing he says to me when we get in, uh, with his driver, he's like, "You have to start recording these. " Yeah. He's like, I He goes, "Uh, I've known Daniel for four years. You got more out of him in four hours than I did in four years.

" He goes, "I talked 2% of the time. He talked 49% of the time. You talked 49% of the time. " He's just like, "No one can speak to the soul of the founder like you. You have to start recording these. " Yeah. It's fascinating. There's that story. It's the whole idea. There's no interview.

It's just like I'm going to talk to the greatest living founders and we're going to have insane conversations that are not predictable. Yeah.

There's uh there's that story about Mark Zuckerberg that he has like extremely high uh question to talk ratio like he lets other people talk a lot and that was seen as like you know bullish on his ability to like hoover up information. Uh, at the same time in the content world, I feel like there is a natural urge.

Like I noticed somebody sent me a short that we didn't post that someone else posted of me and Jordy talking to Mark Andre and it was clear that it was like Mark had a funny take and so that was what would get the views and so we were there kind of as like a cooal to the main event.

And there's uh like window dressing doesn't get uh like window dressing and and so there's just like there is a natural pull in the algorithm for if you're starting an interview show I should just get someone really No, that's the point. But I'm saying I'm saying like did you not just No, no, no, no.

What I'm saying is that is that if you're just purely viewaxing, it's like go get a viral clip machine, point a camera on them and say go and then just film and then and then say what's next?

what's on your what's on your mind and and and those two things you have to actively resist the view capture the algorithm capture and that's what you're doing before I didn't even know you know I don't VMAX I didn't legitimately before we did the giant ramp deal for founders right I did not know how many people listen to founders you didn't look at the analytics it's great what does that tell you I don't give a I want the best audience not the biggest reason the ramp deal came about because somebody we cannot name who If you know, if you're elite in tech, you know who this person is.

Whatever the opposite of a public figure is, this person is. It's interesting that the probably the smartest and best one maybe the smartest and best person in tech behind the scenes. Like no one knows like invisible. Literally came because he's like, I was at Michael Dell's house.

He wouldn't stop talking about your podcast. He didn't know we were friends. I know 10 to 15 billionaires personally that listen to your show. We have to find a way to work together. That's the genesis of all this. It wasn't how many downloads you get.

It's you have the attention and the trust of the elite most elite people in the world. Look at the guest list on the new David Center show. Yeah. It's like David Center by David David Center the when you pull it up on Spotify in your car. It says says Daniel David Center David Sandra David Center.

It said it three times. Are you ready? Are you ready? Some somebody in the chat says, "Hey David, I saw you at Malibu Country Mart yesterday. You're quite tall and handsome. Let's hear it. Are you ready to be Are you ready to be Are you ready to be a household chat?

" This is a live chat, you know, okay, this happened twice. So, first of all, I land cuz I came out here just for you guys, just so you know. Like legitimately, I was like, I don't want to You guys are really important to me. Uh, I want to like do this in person.

We got to talk about the how much has changed since here, but yeah, this it's kind of I don't like to think about this because I walk in some I don't know which case this is.

One happened at the Tesla Supercharger and another at I walk into Sunlife and get a smoothie and like I walk in there's only three people in there and two guys turn like David Sun and I'm like what the wrong? Um and then another guy was charging and you used to only get recognized that Aman properties.

Now now now it's about to be everywhere. I have I can't tell you everywhere. Oh well, the new show is going to be the first one that's associated with Iman. That's very exciting.

Yeah, I shouldn't say anything yet, but like we're 99% sure that this your your personal brand's already associated with uh how much variation do you think there'll be in episode length? A ton. A ton because like again I'm not there's no formulaic. There's no formula here.

So like the way I think about it's like founders is just the books that give me energy that I'm excited to learn about and in many case they're aren't even books. Like I think the the the Colossus profiles that Patrick and his team are making are so remarkable. I didn't know who Thomas Pery Perty is.

I read that pre uh the the article just came out. Do you guys know about this guy? He's worth $80 billion. He's 83 years old. I think he owns 80 the AI will not make you rich article. No, no. This this is a guy I think he started Interactive Brokers. Oh, wow. 80% of it. Okay. It's legit. Okay. Yeah. He's size chat.

Yeah. He's He's a Hungarian immigrant. But you read this profile. I'm like I couldn't put it down. I I called Patrick. It was midnight. I like I literally got on the phone. I was like, "These things are incredible. " And I was like, "Okay, I'm so excited to that I read this even though it's not a book.

I have to make an episode. " So that's the episode I'm working on, right? So that's how we think about Founders. Yeah. David Senro by David Center by David Center. Hosted hosted. Yeah. Why did you pick David Center to host the David Center show? You could have you could have any.

You're leaving a lot of room to slot other hosts in. Easy. easy. The funniest uh response was by uh Christian Keel. I think he used to be at Astronis. Yeah. He's like, "Where'd you come up with the name? " Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Great.

But but with with with the Founders podcast, I feel like you have uh you your thinking on on episode length, how you divide up the episodes has changed and you have a philosophy around it and and you've kind of narrowed the aperture a little bit as you've become more laser focused on what it takes to deliver a quality episode.

Do you think that will happen over time? No, because this is the thing, okay? I am a control freak. Yeah. Right. As you both know. So like the Founders is a oneperson thing. Sure. Like I to the point where I'm now hand editing the transcripts. Yeah. Everybody's like outsource it.

This is why I wanted to play this thing because Jerry Seinfeld way, the hard way is the right way. Right. It's like I'm complete control. It's like permissionless. I feel like I'm like, you know, creating a statue or like some kind of art.

It's like a very intense love affair that I have, an irrational love affair I have with that show.

this one I'm now I have a partner and they're like I didn't even mean I have an entire team now have a team of founders what I mean is like there's some I don't have control over what that person's going to say whether they're going to be interesting or not and so what we've noticed is every single person that we've recorded with and they're we have a crazy guest list they all came from the audience the founders audience because that way at least they have like they know what what I'm into who like what I like to talk about they're more prone to say yes for an unreleased show But there's wide variance between like some in many ca in some cases like they're we've recorded some with incredible people and they halfway through I'm like oh they want me to do a founders episode for they just want literally they like just I'll ask them a question like hey what about this and then they'll like look at me and like want me to talk.

I mean that has to be the same case for Joe Rogan. It's like if you're getting invited to the mothership you're like yeah I want to hear I want to hang out with Joe Rogan today. Yeah. So, no, I I I have to like what I'm learning. Yeah. And you know, this is new to me is just like loosen up a little bit.

Like obviously the quality stuff has to be good. Like we have to edit ruthlessly. We're not going to There's a bunch of different ideas. Most of them came from Daniel E. I can talk about like uh one example he gave me. Um and again like the guy is most powerful person in podcasting. He's willing to just counsel you.

You should take his advice. So he's like listen you need to build up the original feed, right? and then maybe a year in, whatever the time frame is. He's like, "You need to have a bunch of separate feeds. " So, he's like, "Have the twohour conversation that we had and then edit it.

Have another feed where you edit those conversations down to like 30 minutes. " Interesting. And then he's like, "Then you need a third feed where it's just, hey, Daniel had 10 clips that were incredible. " Just that. Isn't that uh something that he should be solving on the product side?

Like when I when I went to your show, I saw that I could do in Spotify. I could do I watched it on Spotify out of respect to Daniel. Uh but I noticed that I could switch as the artist as the host and the guest intended. Um and I also left a comment and it I had fun in the comment section.

But uh you could watch video, switch to audio, but then there were also short form video clips that were all linked to the same profile. I didn't have to go find Davidson shorts. Yes. Uh why will there be different feeds when that's something that they could solve on their side? That's a really interesting I don't know.

I'd ask them. I'll ask them. Um I'm not sure but uh but this was we were in Stockholm together this he told me this in January so a few months cuz the original idea I I I I guess I should back up too the original idea was to launch in April because again like you guys have a deep relationship with RAM just like I do.

And you know, I had this idea, give credit to Eric and Kareem for the level of trust they put in me where I was like, I want to do this where I have long form conversations with starting with the people that are in my audience and like I think it'll be good, but like I think I would love if you guys are the presenting sponsor like done like immediately, right?

And the original idea was to launch in April. April of next year. No, this past April, but me and Daniel couldn't sync schedules and I'm like, I'm not launching until he's got to be number one. Yeah. Because of the pod father. Not that it's like the respect I have for him.

Uh the like I just knew like out of every I'm friends with a bunch of people recorded, but not to the level of like I've spent hours and hours talking to him. I just knew he's just so wise and he's not I just knew I could get stuff out of him that, you know, I hadn't seen him talk about anywhere else.

And so we recorded that like a few months ago, but it was like the beginning of the summer. And then I talked to the head of business at Spotify and the head of product and they're both like you don't launch a show in the summer. And so that's why I got put pushed back to uh end of September. Yeah.

Because everybody's like they're just distracted. It's just like you want maximum impact. Yeah. And so we we waited for a while. Yeah. I mean the launch you expect to to record and scrap episodes entirely.

Do you think that'll be frequent or do you think that if you bring the right energy, you can always get I the unfair advantage we have is that like I do a monologue podcast and maybe better than anybody else in the world and so like if they're going to sit there and listen to me talk I can I can go forever like forever.

No, I don't think I'll scrap it. I just think you have to be again you have to respect the the the the time of the audience and so but this is different. So you you mentioned the founders the formula for founders like I don't like doing them longer than an hour. Yeah. So that way you're listening on 1. 5.

So it's like a 40 year 40-year career, 40 hours of reading, right? That you can listen to in 45 minutes. Yep. That's the value prop of founders. Yep. And that will give you a very high-end audience if you just just idea after idea after idea. Yeah.

This other one like if if I can have an interesting four-hour conversation, they're going to be four hours long. I don't think I can. I think I could talk for we could talk for four hours and you should edit it down to probably like two. You going to do Gaston Glock's daughter? We should do the first. Did you see her?

No. She's on X. No. Yeah. She took over the company. I believe it's his daughter or maybe granddaughter. But did you listen to that episode? Oh yeah, it's one of my We could do the three of us could do a 24-hour podcast on podcast business podcasting for sure. We could do that.

It would be boring as hell for the audience, but you guys have invited me before. You're like, do you want to be here for the whole show? And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. You can do it. Like I I can't live stream for three hours. I will get in trouble. It's easy. It's easy. Watch.

There's a woman in San Francisco charging $30,000 to name your baby. What do you think? You're using that? Were you using that? No, you shouldn't have a kid if you need somebody else to name it. Good take. See, it's easier than you think. No, but I will get in trouble.

I will literally get cancelled because I don't have a filter. I can't do live. Remember, I can edit the out of I think the only thing you do is swear. You're very you're very very tame. Other than that, you just always divert.

You're just always any you naturally divert to history and talking about Okay, so that's that's the key where it's like if you go back to differentiation, right? This is somebody said the funniest thing where there's like a um Red Bull futurist. Yeah. Okay.

He's like somebody ripped literally said we're going to be the TPBN of Europe and then he quote tweeted them and and no disrespect to them. I don't know them but like he's like of course like the TB Europe works two days two days a week. To their credit they leaned into it and they were like which I really appreciate.

No but that's the point. It's just like God bless your soul. It's just like then you're you want to avoid direct comparison. And I can tell you right now, they haven't asked me for podcast advice. Yeah.

But there's I can't think of other people in the podcast industry that I'd want to avoid direct comparison than you two. It's like you're going to lose that because everybody's going to be like, "Let's compare this to TBN. " What is this thing? What is this? The Ultra Drum. Go to the wide. Go to the wide.

Go to the main. Go to the main wide. The big wide. We're here in the dome. The I don't know where the what camera I should be looking into. There's like 10 of them in here. You don't understand how serious because someone just copied our last set and we completely changed the set.

You don't understand how serious these two guys take it. It's just stupid. And there's a great line in 0ero to1, right, where Peter Thiel says, "If you're copying Mark Zuckerberg, you're not learning from him. " Yeah. You copy, you don't copy the what, you copy the how. Yeah. It drives me insane.

So my point is like I'm not going to start another interview show. I'm gonna say, "Hey, I'm gonna have conversations and the for conversation show. " No, no, not even that. But there's other conversation shows like Joe Rogan what you just said, I can't help myself.

Everything I hear, read, anything, it all ties back to the that I learned from founders.

So, it's like, oh, like the first time uh I met Michael Dell when I flew the first time, you know, we were talking, we went through uh Zack Dell's base power, we're going over and they were showing like me these these dashboards, everything else.

Within like the first five minutes, I'd made references to like Jim Casey, Fred Smith, Brad Jacobs. This is like this just comes naturally. Yeah. Um so it's like the important thing about podcasting or in I think any kind of business has to be like natural to you.

So in our private conversations we pull ideas from Olga all the time or anybody. Um so yeah that's exactly what I want to do. And so people are like I liked it but you should do this. I don't know what to tell you because it's like this is just who I am. I can't I'm not acting like I can only be who I am. Yeah.

I think the thing that's so I think I think the conversations that uh giving people the experience of you being at dinner with Daniel or oitz these people like I I feel like incredibly blessed that I get to go to dinner with you and hang out with our friends and get get the David Center experience of like having a normal conversation but then always you're always pulling it back and like contextualizing it with history.

It's like incredibly addicting. I could just I could do, you know, go to dinner for 6 hours because it's still going to just be wildly interesting. But now creating that product, I saw somebody uh somebody in the chat was looking earlier.

They were looking at the first few guests and they were like, I might need to come back to this podcast later after I've made a few billion. But it's actually the exact opposite of that. It's like no, just giving this product is something that's completely free.

anybody can just go listen to it and you get to be get the experience of being at dinner with you and and somebody that's created a $150 billion company, a10 billion dollar company. So there's two things on that.

So I did this like uh my very first viral episode of Founders because I don't obviously don't try to go viral is when I did the I had dinner with Charlie Mer episode. I remember that and it like it went so viral put Founders to the top of the charts over for all podcasts.

Funniest thing about that was that uh didn't you get some inbound from journalists who were like he he didn't want people to write about it and you got scoops like because reporting on it or something like new information Birkshshire's so again reason why people love Munger and people people I admire it's like they're chaotic uncontrollable people I am one of those people right it's like Rob is not going to Rob Moore is not going to be like we I'm going to try to box this guy just like there's just no way.

So Bergkshire was they're they're very like they understand the power of story. They control everything and Charlie was uncontrollable. And so it was not like I I they knew I was a podcaster. They knew like I was going to make a podcast about it. I wasn't going to record anything. Yeah.

Um and so Bergkshire's PR was super mad because they kept not because of the episode. They actually the episode was very positive. Yeah. It was amazing. But what they were upset about is then you had all these journalists hitting them up. They're like, "I thought What did you mean by this?

I thought Charlie didn't give interviews. I'm a uh this one. " Yeah. No. So, he's like, "Uh, he's not I thought he doesn't give interviews. " I'm like, "I'm not a journalist. I'm an enthusiast. I This guy is my idol. I have a bust. I have a bronze bust of Charlie in my house. I'm not a journalist. I'm an enthusiast.

Enthusiast. " That's true. Enthusiast. And so then I feedback. I was like, "Listen, if Charlie if Charlie says delete the episode, I will delete the episode. " But some lady at Brook. No, that's not going to happen. Like I'm very proud of that. Have him call me. Have him call me. Here's my number.

And and then we found out Charlie didn't give a because he doesn't he didn't give a He's almost 100 years old. So to answer your question or to to piggy back on your comment.

So I was doing all these like I had dinner with episodes where I'd have dinner and then I'd summarize in an episode but you didn't hear anybody else. And so the original idea I had for David Center by David Center by hosted by David Center is record.

There's this there's Jay-Z is one of the most fascinating people to me. Sure. Um, episode 238 of Founders is his autobiography and he doesn't ever do podcasts and he did a podcast that was a title exclusive when he was trying to build up title and the podcast was fascinating. It's called Rap Radar.

They rented they were in a private dining room in Beverly Hills. So, it's the two hosts and then Jay-Z and they just have lunch, right? You don't he's not like chewing that. So you edit that stuff out and I'm like that's that's exactly what I want.

Like because what you just said, how much would people pay y to have dinner with Brad Jacobs? Yeah. Or Daniel E or Mike Oitz. I'm going to New York again in like two weeks to have dinner with Oitz again. OIT's come like a crazy friend. Like he texts me all the time. He just booked a guest. I can't tell you who.

Let me tell you the funny Oitz experience I had this this week. Uh he goes, "Hey, I just had dinner with X. " Okay, I'm not I can't say who. Elon Musk's son. No kidding. And he goes, "He's unbelievable. You should get him for the new show. " And I was like, "Do you think you can help convince him?

" He goes, "That's why I'm texting you. " Two hours. No, but give him credit. He's like, "What's your email? " Like the email to the person that can book this for me. Two hours later, date done. Like he's a he's a shark machine. That's fantastic. He's crazy. So, I do want to say one other thing about being free.

I um I just retweeted my own tweet. Here we go. Because I think this a pat on the back. No, because I I I think this is important what you just said about the fact that it's like a miracle self is free.

And I was feeling this today because like the message I've been getting for the for the Daniel episode and it's like podcasting is a miracle. You can receive a world-class education on any subject you want on demand while your eyes are busy for free. And I understand that I've been doing it for almost 10 years.

It's still a miracle to me. I still cannot believe that I can listen to these conversations. I can it just I I I never I I still I still I I still feel that uh podcasts were much more important to my education than my traditional education.

I I thought back of of uh I was lucky to discover like Tim Ferrris when I was 18, right? And and being able to Yeah. You just did the show with Tim.

Um, and just like being able to sit on on those conversations and learn about different perspectives on life and different ways to live and and how to work and how to be healthy, all these different things were were incredibly formative.

And I just thought I was never growing up, I was never in an environment where I was in any of those rooms at all. Right. I had a you know uh uh uh there's some people that are that benefited from that and I just feel like it is the greatest public uh public good. You nailed it.

Like, okay, if you went to Harvard or Princeton or Ivy League, like my parents didn't even graduate high school. That was just never going to be an option. I had to work full-time.

Like, maybe you get world like there are a small percentage of people that get world class education and they're surrounded by the crazy network. Like, think about like the majority of my friends were all at Harvard. They're all like Jewish. These these like Jew Jewish genius Harvard people.

They were all at school at the same time. And then you fast forward, they've been out of school for like 15 years and they're all completely like absolutely dominating. Like I couldn't imagine what that experience would have been like to have that when you were 18. Like lifechanging.

And they're still doing you go you go you go to your friend's house for the weekend and the dad just the conversations at the dinner table, right? But now those conversations are actually widely accessible to everyone. Exactly. And so like I've learned more. I'm looking for this.

We you know you were one of the first advertisers on Founders years ago and I'm actually looking for this text now. text that you sent me probably like 2023. Um Oh, way back. Yeah. But you were just like, "Founders is essentially like the only show that I'm listening to these days. " Yep.

Um we go and I want the response though cuz my response was kind of arrogant. Well, no. I tried it. I I asked if you were open to being acquired, I think, and you were like, "Yeah, and then you wanted you wanted to buy all Oh, no. Um you're like the only podcast I listen to religiously. " This is Hold on.

This is going to be funny. Do you think this is an act? So this is back in March 22, 2023 is when this is happening. Okay. So you text me only podcast I listen to religiously. I go, "No days off. I'm coming for everyone. " Fact check. True. Like narrator, he did come for everyone.

How do you uh explain your approach to work?

because I know you my experience you're working around the clock like you're you're you're always on but it doesn't always look like being in front of a a you know a computer you know editing an episode or whatever but what what and and what have you kind of pulled from the greats to kind of inform your own process?

So I I think like man sometimes so I just did Tim Ferrris and sometimes like I think I said this on Tim Ferrris like I say stuff and I'm like I should not be admitting to this. Uh but then every time I do people are like man I'm so glad you said X Y or Z because like I feel that exact same way.

What that you procrastinate sometimes? No no no. So my issue was I think for years episode 222 of founders Ed Thorp and if you look at the subtitle of that episode it's like my personal blueprint.

And what I thought was interesting about Ed Thorp was like oh this guy like mastered life more than almost anybody ever come across out of the 400 episodes I've done. And what I mean by that is like he actually was like balanced like he you know he has a he lived crazy adventurous life.

He um invented the system for counting cards in blackjack. Built the world's first wearable computer with Claude Shannon. created the world's uh first quantitative hedge fund, made more money than you could ever spend. Uh he but he he like took care of his health. He was a good family man. And so that's what I meant.

I was like, "Oh, he's like all well balanced. " And I was like, "This is my blueprint. " And the closest thing I have to like a mentor, I would say, uh like an explicit mentor and kind of like an older brother is Sam Hinky.

And I was on the phone with him recently, I mean recently, was probably like nine months ago because I I kind of understood this about myself for a while. And I'm like, man, I think I'm lying. Like, I think I'm lying when I say like that's my blueprint. Like, I don't like I don't want to be balanced.

Like, I don't like I like I think I'm much more like Enzo Ferrari than I am like Ed Thorp. And, you know, I think Sam's point, he's just like he's a way better person than I am. Like legitimately better human being than I am. And his point is like trying to pull me back in that direction.

And I just think that's like not going to happen. So to answer your question is like if my eyes are open then I'm thinking about work and I'm only thinking about work and it doesn't feel like work because I just have this irrational obsession. Dude, I don't want to talk about this.

I literally like this sounds so so terrible.

I literally like had tears in my eyes when I woke up yesterday because this is so important to me and I knew it was I knew that yesterday was like a a big turning point in my life, but I woke up from a private message from Daniel and it's like I read it and like immediately started crying like not like sobbing, but like tears in my eyes because to have somebody that you respect so much say you're like you you're I'm really proud of you.

Like what you're putting out is excellent, really great. And to have that and also love it the way I do. It's like the reason I said Enzo Ferrari because he said a man dominated by passion such as mine like can't be cut in half. His whole point was like he wasn't good at anything else but thinking about Ferrari.

And so my work thing is just like I'm in infinitely curious. And so like today, you know, I worked out and then every other thing was just reading and like I'm reading two books at the same time. I'm working on founders episodes. I'm trying to respond to messages about the Daniel episode. Like I don't know.

And then I just come over here and like we're friends but this is kind of work too. And then after this like I'm going to go back and work some more and like that's all I want to do. I have a follow-up question but first I'm going to tell you about adquick. com. Out of home advertising made easy and measurable.

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Uh, my question, do you think that there is a material difference between retired and live player, active CEO, post FU money, posteconomic in terms of the shape of an interview, what you get out.

If I if if you took a random listener and they had no idea who Daniel E and Brad Jacobs and uh Michael Dell and all these different folks who you're going to interview were I'm not interviewing them. What? Yeah.

Talking to um do you think that they would be able to tell okay this person's still in the arena this person is post economic checked out? It's not it's not a money thing. It's not a retirement thing. It's like a personality thing. Wait till you see the Brad.

I cannot believe some of the stuff we got on film that Brad Jacobs does because that guy just can't help himself. He is who he is. And obviously like he's a public company. I don't know if he's a CEO of he's definitely a chairman, but like a lot of these happen to be public company CEOs.

So like I have to be, you know, they have they have comms people and they have all this crazy stuff and I'm not going to I'm not intentionally trying to get in in trouble with anybody. You know, again, I'm an enthusiast. I'm not a journalist. I just think, hey, you're brilliant.

Can I pull something out of you that other people I benefit a lot from talking to you? And so it's kind of selfish that I get all these lessons and this inspiration and this education from you. Are you cool us sitting down and just recording the conversations we have any anyways?

And so person like Brad doesn't give a He is 68. He's got the most energy of anybody else I've been around.

He also has nothing to be insecure about because he started eight separate billion dollar companies and he's a he wrote the book on starting billion dollar companies and he's and I guess you're also not asking for you know like are you bullish on this particular market that you may or may not have bags in.

That's not relevant. I don't we don't talk at all about current affairs. Sure. Current events like which is this is why we're beautiful yin and yang because obviously we're focused on what's happening.

Another huge point of uh differentiation against like a Rogan is like you go in Rogan it's going to be like well let's react to the news right now. It's very different. No. And my point like I'm not you know I'm not we talked about this be John was like will you do a podcast with me? I was like what are we going to do?

He's like talk about tech news. I'm like talking about tech news. No I'm not going to talk about tech news. Uh would you uh RAV is asking would you interview David Senra on David Senra by David Senra hosted by David Senra. Okay. Would you interview yourself? Okay.

So, the the the the hold on the reclusive genius that we all know and then we can't name his name. Literally called me yesterday. Yeah. Um and had a long conversation about this and he had a I'm not I can't say I'll tell you guys off here, but he had a great idea and he's like once we we should do this for episode 100.

And I'm like, yeah. Well, there's another great idea. Go to getbzzle. com. Your bezel concier is available to source you any watch on the planet. Seriously, any watch. Get a look. Uh last question I have on my side, then we should we should grab lunch. Uh, I'm sorry.

Do you think we're exiting the hobbyist era of podcasting era? We had this conversation yesterday. It was I mean there was a there was a beautiful there was there was a there was about a a a decade and a half where you could start a podcast and have a you know I was doing media part-time. I was one of the worst Yeah.

But we had this conversation. No, we had You convinced me. I I had this conversation when I came in because uh it it was just obvious. We'll talk about this later. Like it's the first video I saw of yours. I was like, "This guy, we had to be friends. He's a generational talent. " Like, it's just obvious.

We had a we had a guy stopped John while we were at breakfast this morning. Had no idea about TVPN, but was obsessed with John's videos. And John's like, "I haven't published a video. I haven't published a video in like over a year. " Yes. I was like, I want to think it was that early, but I came in really years early.

Um, so anyways, we we me and Joy just randomly talk about this because we can't help ourselves. Um, yesterday when we randomly ran into each other. Uh, this is where I like I don't mean any disrespect to other people. So, we are live. I know this is I have to be very careful. So, and that's a great place to end it.

No, no. So, um, okay. No disres. There's no way this guy's watching. No, no, no, no, no. It all gets back. Okay. Okay. Right. Okay.

I was induced into a state of rage because I was I was at a dinner and I was introduced to another podcaster and they mentioned like again they're from like the old school right when you can like come in and like it's just different and basically his point was just like yeah there's like I have to figure out like a new form.

There were a lot of people that saw podcasting as just like a marketing side hobby. But but you can't say I need like I need to fix my show and I need a different like I need like a new like take on my existing show and also tell me that I'm going to take three months off to do something else that's not the podcast.

And I told him, I go, "You're going to get up. " Like, because what's happening now, this is exactly what I said, though. But this is what's happening now is people used to come in and they're like, "Oh, I'm just going to like I can do three other things.

" Podcast could be your third, fourth, fifth most important thing in your life. Yeah. It's just 90 minutes once a week. Yeah. But now you have people that act like founders and entrepreneurs coming in.

And the conversation we had, it's like, so I think of like obviously I approach this as if if an Enzo Ferrari was doing what I was doing, if a Munger was doing what I was doing, if a Steve Jobs was doing or Edwin Lamb was doing what I was doing, what would they do? That's exactly how I think.

And then I come into this and I'm like, oh, and I knew you guys think like this anyways, but what I was just telling them because I was like, where did the rest of you had like 15 people last time I was here? The interns went back to college. Yeah. I'm like, no, they're going to learn more.

I go, these two or one of our interns didn't go back to college, but I go, this is what I said. I go, "These two are going to take this as far as it can possibly go. " There is no way if you have a front row seat to that. Skip a year of college. They're going to take this as far as possible.

You guys are not at You're not p you are podcasters, but you're entrepreneurs and you just realize like this is the product. Look what it's got. Your one-year anniversary is what? 4 days from now, I think. So, yeah. We need to figure out when episode 365 probably. But look at what you guys we didn't start.

We didn't Well, we didn't Yeah. We didn't start doing daily until I cornered you at the Fina in Miami and started yelling out of love. That's the real That's the real founding date. Yeah. But my point being is like we were just looking at episode one right before I came on and look what you guys you're entrepreneurs.

You've iterated tremendously in a year. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, good luck competing with John and Jordy. You're not going to do that. Yeah, it's also I mean the function of you know John spending years building up figuring out how to create great content online.

Me starting my career basically selling ads on the internet. Just a bunch of different and then I don't know it's uh would not have been possible if we hadn't each spent a decade doing what we did prior.

But then there's also something that is not copyable, which is the chemistry between you two, which is why I was so like emphatic about you need to take this more seriously. Not that you weren't, but like you you had there's just you can't buy that chemistry. What do you mean chemistry? We're mortal enemies.

No, you just play the amount of time. Yeah, we're just great actors. We're here in Hollywood. There's so many times where like I remember when I went to casting and they were like, you're going to play this guy. This is a lie. You don't lie to your audience.

There's so many times when the character the friend a character that's friends with for the other there's so many audience they're lying there's so many times when I'm with one and the other one calls the other one and it's just like they love each other like I can't hang out anybody as much as you guys hang out and then still like them.

So like nobody I just Nobody likes talking about 225 is not going to match itself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we can't. Who else will I get to shily spot me while they're on their phone and I'm dying the sex threat? I've I've definitely I've gotten better at spotting.

But but when when in the morning when we're working out, it's uh it's going to be a couple times John almost lost his head because I was locked in on the news when he was bashing. Dude, your back the joint workouts are working. I saw the pictures of you at the beach. Your back's getting big. It's way wider.

You guys are on the juice. Look at this. No juice. I do. I do that. Here you know the secret. I eat a ham I eat a double smash burger every morning every secrets stuff anyway secrets. Uh this is a lot of fun. Let me tell you about wander. You want to sing with us. Find your happy place. Find your happy place.

Book a wander with inspiring views, hotel, great amenities, dreamy beds, top cleaning, and 24/7 concier service. It's a vacation home but better. Tory case. I just have to say uh I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. Congratulations.

Uh I feel lucky to have met you before you became a household uh name and nobody in my career has done more for me than you with zero financial incentive anything anything along those lines. Um so it's one thank you very much.

The second part I think is really important is because at the end of the day if you're insanely talented is like people chase money when you should really be chasing relationships.

Like that is all like Outside of work, I care deeply about the friendships that I build and like I don't purposely, you know, I talked to Kareem about this. He's like, "Man, you're selling all these ads for other podcasters. You're doing all sort stuff.

" Kareem from RAMP, one of the gene, maybe the most brilliant mind working in finance today, technical mind working in finance today. Listen to the Daniel episode and you'll see how he's similar to how Kareem's working style is very similar to Daniel's.

Um, and he's like, "Why don't you start like a, you know, business doing this? " It's like, I don't I do it because I love the PE. I love podcasters and I love super talented people that take their work very seriously and it's like I like seeing my friends win and no side hustles. Yeah.

Then that's another reason never side hustle. Well, uh let's ring it for the first episode of Thank you. There we go. Great hit. Uh thank you for tuning in folks. We love you. We'll see you tomorrow. See you tomorrow. Thank you. Cheers.