Sam Altman and Bill Peebles on Sora's launch: 70% of users are creating, and this is 'the GPT-3.5 moment for video'

data analyst that works for you. Connect your data, ask questions. Data super intelligence it is. And we are joined by Sam Alman and Bill Peeles. Sam. Bill, how are you doing? What's going on? Hey guys. Hey guys. Great to see you. Congrats on all the progress. Uh I've been enjoying Sora a ton.

Uh personally, I've been enjoying making them. I had a ton of fun making uh the collab post yesterday and uh I was wondering prompting your cameo feature. John made it so that uh he always appears as a bodybuilder if anybody's cameoing him. So you guys got got to experience led to some some chaotic results.

Uh do you have favorite Sora posts that you've been uh coming back to or that have you know stuck out to you as particularly uh you know creative uses? I I mean definitely all of the ones of like me stealing GPUs or doing other crazy things to get GPUs have been funny.

Uh in in the last few days the there at least in my feed there have been these like very beautiful sort of fantastic scenes that are just not things that could have ever existed without something like Sora or wouldn't have been easy to make.

And watching people build those and watching as sort of the trends flow through that has been pretty awesome. Uh what about you Bill? Uh any favorite uh uses of Sora so far? Oh man. Uh Mark Cuban came on the platform a few days ago and there have been some hilarious Shark Tank memes. Those are probably my favorite.

Pitching pitching some Sora features also uh leveraging the the prompting function to always include an ad for cost plus drugs I thought was especially hilarious considering he's been one of the most vocal opponents of of advertising in AI. He uh uh is leveraging the feature to the max. Yeah. Yeah.

I think they're going to be all of these weird new dynamics that we see emerge that just weren't possible in previous kinds of video. And uh this is like a fun period because it's all going to be so different every few days. Man, I'm watching this poly market ticket go by.

Ticker go by and it's so tempting to like say things to all these. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be clear, not we're don't don't worry about the don't worry about the ticker. I don't think we're including uh I don't I don't think any of those markets are being being featured in the ticker, but uh Yes. Yeah.

Again, this is the the new world we're in. Yeah, you can move the market live on TBNN, but today people, I'm sure, will be happy or disappointed we're here to talk about Sora, of course. So, uh none of the uh other topics. I But I I mean, I also want to know about ads. Uh why no ads in Sora on day one?

I feel like you've laid out a really great, you know, mental model for how you think about ads on stratey on the Andre Horowits podcast. I've I I'm bought in. Uh, is it a technical thing? Do you need scale? Do you need uh to think about it more? Uh, why no ads on day one? This is like a 10-day old product, right?

Like it's hard to get anything to work at all. Uh, and we we like we we don't we we don't assume success. We we got to like go hard earned success and then we can then we can think about monetization for it. But this is like it's gone great so far.

It's still very early and there's still a lot of work to build something that a lot of people are going to love. First, what about uh surprising capabilities of the model? You mentioned that you've seen some fantastical scenes.

I'm interested to know about specific like specific breakthroughs that you've noticed that Sora to the model is particularly good at. I noticed one about uh reflections being great.

Obviously, people love the cameos, but what what has surprised you in terms of just like technically the model can do something now that it couldn't do before? This model is a huge leap forward in terms of physics IQ.

So pretty much all past video generation models really struggled with prompts that you know involve like back flips, gymnastics routines, etc. And this is really the only model that exists today which can reliably handle these kinds of really complicated dynamics.

Um, one of the big features that people have really loved on the app so far is the steerability of the model. So, you know, if you give it like a really simple text prompt that's maybe even only a few words, this model is really good about kind of telling a coherent story with like a beginning, middle, and end.

And doing this like automatically in a way that doesn't require like a lot of direct steering from the user. If you want to like go into, you know, a ton of detail about exactly how your prompt should be laid out and how the story should unfold, it supports that too.

So, it can kind of meet you wherever you're at in the creative process. But really, this model is just like so hyper steerable and it's like just vastly higher physics IQ just makes it able to do things that were like not possible a few months ago.

Is that all within the model or is there some sort of like reasoning step where you're hydrating or unpacking my prompt and writing a bigger prompt or breaking down the problem in some way? Can you share anything about that? Yeah, it's a good question.

Um so you know the intelligence for these text conditional video models kind of lies both in the the core model itself like Sora and some amount of it also comes in through the text prompt.

So you know where however the user decides to kickstart a prompt you can have like a language model under the hood adds some details in.

But for example you know when it comes to things like again like doing these back flips or any kind of physical interactions how refraction is modeled uh you know when you're pouring water into a glass all of these details have to be captured by the core video model itself.

So that that's intelligence which is really innate to Sora. Uh and certainly you can supplement it with intelligence from a language model as well but it's not necessarily a prerequisite to get kind of amazing results out of these things.

Are there any areas on the physics where you think that uh the model falls down and you want to improve? I mean we went through the era of like six fingers.

It seems like reflections and water are solved but someone was saying something about doors being hard or I I haven't noticed that one personally but a lot of the stuff's great. But what have you noticed is like the next version is going to be even better at this is still very early.

A thing Bill said that I appreciated is this is this is the this is like the GPT 3. 5 moment for video. I agree. And if you went back to use the actual GPT3.

5, you'd be like, okay, signs of great promise can do the occasional impressive thing, but it was really not until GPT4 where these text models started providing real value for people. And we know how to go make the GPT4 equivalent of video models and we will do that.

And then a lot of these things that are currently annoying like doors or, you know, once in a while something goes through something else it's not supposed to. In the same way that the world, you know, love to complain for a brief period of time about where 3.

5 fell down and oh, it's never going to be useful, it's never going to do this, it's never going to do that, and then we were able to just keep making it better and better and better and better.

The model physics IQ is certainly the best I've ever seen, but it is nowhere near as good as it will be um in the future versions.

And I think I hope we'll see a similar thing to what happened with the GPT text models, which is people will always demand more and better and they will always find new and better things to use it for, and the world will just make ever more amazing videos.

And how quickly, oh, sorry, we're early on the curve for video here. Yeah. um like GPT1 really was Sora one uh for this modality and the progress we've made kind of in the last 18 months getting to this 3. 5 moment right it's really compressed compared to how long it took to go from GPT1 to 3.

5 in the language domain so we're really expecting progress to continue to be meteor here in the near future how quickly do you expect the cameo feature to be cloned that feels like a a a equally important part of the you know the the models made a leap but the product is and the experience erience and that the the experience of creating uh these assets is uh wildly innovative.

We saw stories get cloned. We saw saw uh you know algo video short form feeds get cloned. I I expect many other platforms to be looking at this functionality and realizing that this might be uh the future. You guys certainly believe uh that that it could be uh important.

So how quickly we're actually totally okay with a world where we do the product innovation and everybody else copies and I don't think it works for them as well as they think it does like the the you know a lot of people have tried copying chatbt uh in you can go look at some of our competitors apps and they even copy the mistakes they even copy the design decisions we really wish we hadn't made and maybe it's worked well for them I guess I kind of hope it has but it's been fine for us yeah I I think like the the the key to this is not any one innovation but it's repeatedly putting them out again and again and being first to come up with them and put them into a cohesive offering and you know that's what we want to be good at and if other people want to clone the stuff that works we also sometimes clone stuff that works that's fine but but mostly we want to be able to drive the innovation and I think Bill and his team have done an incredible job of figuring out how people actually want to use these video models what the models need to do really they've approached this as a full stack problem from how do you train the video model to how do you make this enjoyable for users, but cameos are one out of many ideas they have from here on the journey to like the product that we hope to eventually build.

And so if people take some inspiration from us and copy us along the way, I'm sure they will. It's fine. How do you think about the like popular claim uh that we want AI detection, I want AI content flagged? Is that a stated preference that's not a revealed preference?

Because personally, I don't want bad a AI content, but I don't want bad humanmade content either. I want great both. And I'm fine when someone comes up with something genius and they instantiate it with a video model. Uh, how do you think about it?

I I think that is the real thing is you don't want slop, you want great content. Different people, one man's slop is another man's treasure for sure. But what you care about is like good, original, thoughtful, new, helpful, whatever content.

And whether that is generated entirely by a human or entirely by AI or what I expect will mostly happen in the future, which is toolass assisted human-driven generation. Um, I don't think you care that much if the content is great.

uh there's a lot of like you know stuff that is technically written or drawn or filmed by a human but is completely derivative and much less original than what an AI has generated and I think that will be what people really care about long term. You just want great content.

Um now I also do want some human connection with it. Like when I read a great book, first thing I want to do is read about the author that wrote it and what life experience went into that. I don't think that'll go away. But if they're using an AI as a tool to help them make the writing better, sign me up.

That sounds great. Similarly, I would rather watch a video about someone I know than some random AI generated character, which is part of why I think this was cool to offer.

One design decision the team made that I thought was really great and I I was actually pushing them in a different direction earlier on and uh then I decided they were totally right and I thanked them and dropped it was the fact that the feed is um AI only and not a mix of AI plus some uploaded videos I think is a subtle but extremely important design decision and how people are relating to this.

Yeah, it was a very weird experience for me.

I was I was thinking about the collab post that I was making announcing this interview and my initial thing was like well I'm going to have to think of a script or I'm going to have to think of you know what I say or I should record a piece of this and then I'll use it and it was like no I just type the prompt in and then I get the frontfacing video is remarkable.

What are you what kind of indicators are are you guys looking at uh as Sora can transition from uh what it was the second it launched which was a creative tool into something that's more of a consump like a consumption platform traditional you know social media platform like what talk about kind of what you guys are pushing for to uh because obviously you're seeding seeding the the network with with the tool uh but it's it's certainly much harder to turn it is something uh that people are spending hours a day in purely consuming content and not creating content.

You know, we really wanted to design this from the ground up to be centered around creation.

And a lot of the metrics that we've been focused on optimizing here are really aligned with making sure as many people as possible are actually like getting their hands on the sore model itself and you know able to create content with their friends and like for the rest of the world.

One metric that we're really proud of with this launch so far is that 70% of our users are actually creating content even to this day, you know, a week and a half after launch. And that's like vastly higher than on any other social media platform.

And I think it really speaks to just how fun creation can be with the right tool set. Right? If you look at any of these kind of legacy platforms, there's just like so much friction from like getting off the feed and like into some creative flow state, right?

you have to like put the phone down, you have to go get like a camcorder, start recording yourself, find your friends, like do a dance, etc. It's just like a lot of work, right? On Sora, like you can just pick up your phone, find a like any video you like in the feed, remix it, uh you know, cameo any of your friends.

And I think one insight that was not obvious to us at first, but we've kind of clearly seen as an emergent behavior of this product is just like there's there's all these people out there who would not necessarily want to be like, you know, influencers or something or have like a big social media presence, but the fact that like all of their friends can just access their cameo, right?

Put them in all of these crazy situations actually like kind of gets them into the playing field in a way that felt really high friction before. And so, you know, we're closing in on close to like 2 million weekly active users now.

We're really excited that such a huge percentage of that user base to this day is like still creating with Sora and we're going to continue pushing on that direction and making sure people have even more powerful tools in the future. Yeah. So 70% of Sora users are creating content.

Uh the typical benchmark that people kind of quote randomly is like uh 1% creation, 99% consumption, something like that. And that certainly feels like my experience on Instagram. I post a photo every once in a while, but most of the time I'm just kind of scrolling.

And I'm wondering if you think that that 1% will be much higher on Sora in terms of actual time in the app, time prompting versus time scrolling. Uh, and if you have any data, that'd be super interesting.

But then also, uh, does that make it more of like a competitor to video games than traditional social media because it's such a lean forward experience versus just layback? What do you think? Yeah, it's a great question.

Um, we still need to study this more exactly how creation versus consumption habits kind of change over time for folks on the platform. It's still pretty early days.

I I do agree with your point though that I think over time this is going to feel much more immersive um in a way that like video games kind of do like you have more agency when you're actually using the platform, you know, not just kind of like mindlessly scrolling a feed uh like hours a day.

And like one interpretation of this product which I think is kind of interesting especially from the research perspective right is cameos in some way is like the simplest way where you can kind of like inject yourself into the model right so it's a very low bandwidth communication channel right now you know you're only giving like a few seconds uh of video footage uh of like any given individual like into the app.

Uh but like over time right you can imagine like these models know more and more about your life. they really like deeply understand your friends, how you want to like show up in the world. And like over time, this can almost become like a little mini like alternate reality, right?

So like you're not just generating like videos of yourself with your friends, like you actually just have like digital copies of yourself running in the model on the Sora platform interacting with other people with agency.

And so I think over time we're really going to see this platform evolve into, you know, something that feels kind of familiar today into something that really leans into like the full intelligence of Sora 2 in the future and like really leverages all the world simulation capabilities that we're working on internally.

Yeah, I I would add to that that if if you think of this like spectrum of the kind of entertainment you can have in front of a computer, at one end you have like watch a two and a half hour movie and you hit play and then you lean back and you don't do anything at all.

Um, and then at the other end, you have like a very intense video game and you're like, you know, sweating and your heart's racing and it's like super super active. Um, AI is going to push things to be more in between there.

So, you'll have maybe you're still watching that movie, but now you can like say something a few times throughout the course of it and it changes what happens as the movie plays out.

or with Sora, you're seeing this amazing new phenomenon where most users are creating in a in a world where traditionally only 1% of them did. And so you're yes, you're like watching a video feed, but you're you're doing a little bit more.

And it, at least for me, really changes how fun the whole thing is and how I feel about it. Then maybe you'll do what Bill said and you'll have like you'll be way more actively participating in the Sora feed. And I I think you're just going to see that continuum blur a lot more.

Did you see Bander Snatch by any chance, Sam? Have you seen this Netflix?

It's like a Netflix choose your own adventure and it was really cool idea but ultimately people it never really took off and became like something they do again and again and again and I'm wondering if it was because it was like not customizable enough um or people just want to just sit back and see a director's vision.

I don't know. Anyway, I never heard of that but it sounds cool. Yeah. How do you think uh uh question for Sam? How do you think about allocate allocating compute to Sora versus the rest of the business? I imagine Bill is constantly in your ear. every every other uh hour. But uh how are you thinking about it?

You know, my real answer is I've entirely changed my focus of how I spend my days to just go get more compute rather than have to make the comput allocation decisions.

Yeah, I still do have to make some short-term comput allocation decisions, but I hope we're heading to a world where I am instead telling people you got to find a way to use more compute and uh we're going to be we're going to be very aggressive here.

It feels like you're doing a great job of like bringing things within your control within the supply chain. What is outside of your control at this point? I mean, most of it. Um, but I feel like you have great you have great partners all up and down the stack, multiple partners in different parts of the chain.

Like when I think about scaling up Sora, I I I I feel like it's crazy to bet against you. Like you're going to you're going to get the chips. You're not going to be try to buy like 10 g of power for delivery next year. It's not so easy. Uh, it's funny. How are the conversations going with uh with Hollywood? Oh, yeah.

Oh, actually, yeah, you take it. Yeah, I I was going to say we've been chatting actually with a few, you know, very notable folks in in Hollywood over the the last week. You know, I think people's first reaction to this is like very understandably going to involve a lot of trepidation and like anxiety.

um when we've gotten to just sit in a room with these folks though, you know, and really explain what we're building.

I've actually been pretty struck by like how excited uh folks in Hollywood are about this, you know, we were chatting with um with one actor recently who mentioned that, you know, on Twitter like a year ago saw like a deep fake of her generated with one of these like open- source models uh which really had like a lot of nasty content.

Oh yeah. uh created and when we really like it walked her through kind of all of our safety mitigations, right?

How we're making sure that we have this like very well- definfined model spec which dictates the behavior that that we allow on this platform and how we are really leaning into like full control of likeness, right? More so than any other platform. Like you have to come in through the Cameo process.

You can't just like upload an image of yourself and just like generate a video of it of like any person. You have to come in through Cameo. Um, I think it became clear her that, you know, we're really setting the right standard here, uh, in terms of making sure people are in full control of their likeness in Hollywood.

And I think that's where like a lot of this anxiety comes from, right? It's this feeling that, you know, some random person can just kind of take videos or images of you and do whatever they want with them and create all of this like like like terrible content that's like outside of your purview.

Um, but we've really been like designing Sora from the ground up to put users in full control of their likeness end to end from the moment you sign into the app to, you know, needing Cameo permissions to like access any of your friends uh, generations.

So, you know, I think we need to engage more with Hollywood and we're going to continue to do that. But once we really explain the story of Sora, you know, they're very receptive to it. Do you think there's a world to add something to that?

I like, you know, I the team asked me before launch if they could put my cameo in their open access and I of course thought about for a second and said absolutely yes. I had all these Hollywood celebrities then messaging me on the first day being like, "You're absolutely crazy. This is insane.

This is like the dumbest thing I've ever se. " And then by about the third day, they were like, "hm, that was really smart. You got like a lot of, you know, free publicity. Maybe we need to be doing that. " And I think you're now seeing actual celebrities say, "Okay, I'm going to do this.

" And I expect a lot more of them will similar thing on other kinds of characters in IP.

I can totally imagine a world where our problem in a year or 6 months or maybe even less is not that people don't want their cameos or their characters appearing but they think we are not fairly having their characters or cameo appearing often enough. Yeah, this may turn out to be a really big thing for fan connection.

Now, it may be that kind of the previous generation of celebrities don't want to do this and the influencer celebrities all do. I don't know how that's going to go, but but I bet this will be like a pretty deep kind of new connection. Yeah, it seems like it's been good for DiCaprio in the memes.

Like, he's not directly monetizing those when you show the champagne meme or him pointing at the TV, but like you know, it builds his aura in some way. A friend of ours posted something yesterday. This this is Jeremy Ganon.

He said, "The reason we're so upset about slop is because it's obvious we're all going to be going to love consuming it in 2 to 3 years. It's not going to be slop for long. " Do you agree, Sam? I mean, some of it will be sloped to some people and some of it won't.

I I remember like there was a real reaction like this in the early GPT days where people were like, "I can't believe anyone reads this. It's like total crap. It's full of hallucinations, you know? It's like it's not useful to anyone.

" And then it became more useful to some people, but they said, "I can't believe anybody like ever thinks this thing writes a beautiful sentence. That's insane. " And then with GPT5, you have authors saying like, "Wow, this is a useful tool. It sometimes like writes a beautiful sentence. " Yeah.

Uh and I kind of think it'll follow a similar trajectory. What do you think about the fact that people feel at least I don't know if they actually can, but it feels like you can still clock GPT5 writing, you know, it's not this, it's that, the M dash.

Like will we still see these artifacts in 3 years in Sora 5 that people are like oh if you know you know you can tell but most people can't. Yeah. It's like what's the mdash of of video because I don't think it's like six finger. No no definitely not. That's the typo which doesn't happen anymore. Yeah.

I think right now the mdash is like this like slightly wired speech pattern in Sora where it likes to say a lot of words very quickly. You know these these generations definitely have like a style to them.

M um I think analogously to GPT, we really want to give users a lot of control over exactly how their videos show up right on the platform. Like if you really want kind of like a very soothing experience, right? Not a lot of shot changes going on, we want to give users the ability to generate that.

Uh and we're going to continue to give more optionality to people. So, you know, there'll be some default kind of behaviors and quirks of uh of Sora for sure, but uh we definitely want all power users to be able to be in full control. Random question. Where did the name Sora come from? Yeah. Oh, this is a fun one.

Um, so the original Sora came out uh in February 2024, the OG blog post. Yeah. We uh did not have a name for it. I think like up to two days before you like revealed the model to the world. Uh we just could not agree on the team what it should be. Did you at least have a code word or something?

Like how we just called it like videogen. Okay. Um, and so, uh, at some ungodly hour, I like just started pumping a bunch of crazy ideas into chat GPT. And then like we basically ran out of like English words, so then we switched to like Japanese words. Wow. Uh, and then Sora came out.

I was like, "Wow, that sounds really nice. " It means sky, you know, link with like imagination, like all the the possibilities of creation. And so then we just like last minute ship Sora. So yeah. Yeah. It was kind of a mad dash. Okay.

Speaking of Japanese stuff, uh Sam, you said you were looking for an Acura NSX a while back. Uh it's kind of this throwback car, very It's not a Whimo. Uh what do you think the piece of content or format will be that uh remains loved uh in an age where everyone's taking the Whimo of video, the Sora video generation.

What do you think is like Well, first of all, I got that NSX and it lived up to all of the childhood hype. I mean, just incredible. That car is so fantastic. And I I don't know. I kind of think there's going to be a lot of stuff like that for people that generated or not where you still you want the real thing.

You want the thing that you had the kind of childhood connection to. Uh you know, someone like a kid today is not going to want the NSX, but whatever the a cool car like that is, they will want.

And at some point like the fact that they can have like a crazy VR experience, they'll still want the real thing and the connection to it and everything they have. So I I think there will be a huge amount of that. In fact, I think the future looks like much more of that kind of stuff, not much less.

How quickly do you want to create an economy on Sora? It feels like there would be a number of ways that you could create incentives for creators to create things, for IP holders, for individuals to just be passively monetizing their likeness. Bill, what do you think for timing on that?

I mean, this is like a top priority for the team. You know, there's clearly such an incredible value proposition for celebrities, for rights holders across the board here. Um, we think cameo is like a great entry point for this, right? You can imagine right now we have cameos for people.

Maybe you have cameos for like, you know, your character, uh, or like your brand or something. And so, we're actively working on the team right now, uh, coming up with like the right monetization model here to get this rolled out.

But it's really important to us, right, that our creators on the platform are rewarded and that there are clear, you know, financial incentives um, for like the incredible work that they're already doing. So, this is like top of mind for us and we'll have updates here over the coming weeks.

This is like something we're actively working on. I I I will I I think it's super important and awesome. I I will say I would like to know how many hours of sleep Bill has averaged for the last few weeks, but I bet it's not enough. So, we got a lot of stuff.

The team's got a lot of stuff they have to do in a short period of time, and it's going to take a little while. Okay, let me put one more thing on your plate, Sam. Uh I mean, uh earlier like years ago, you built Looped locationbased product. Have you thought about how AI and locationbased content fits together?

Like on most of these social apps, you can tag a location. That wouldn't even make sense in the current sore app. But what does the AI maps product look like? I haven't thought about AI and location that much, but I've thought about like how AI can really change the social experience for people. Mhm.

We don't have like a for sure answer yet, but we have like a lot of interesting threads to pull on and I have thought back to like my days running that startup there more.

My instinct is it is possible to make a very interesting new kind of social experience connecting you to people, helping you find people that is intermediated by AI in an interesting way. Um but you know we'd have a lot of exploration to do there. What advice are you giving to startup founders these days?

Uh I remember in the GPT 3. 5 GPT4 days it was like don't build a company that assumes model stagnation. How do you think about in the age of Sora? That's been really great advice. It really has. It planned out it played out exactly like that.

There's a bunch of great companies that aren't built that way and they've done great. Uh, but if you if you were just, oh, I have a special prompt that tunes up GPT4. Yeah, bad times. But how are you thinking about it now in the context of video and Sora specifically? You obviously do have an API. You have dev day.

There's people that will build on top of this. Is it a different shape of the problem? Totally. The the reaction to um the API has been nuts positive. Like I at least the fastest ramping revenue I've ever seen for one of our new models in the API.

I mean, maybe there was something faster that I'm not remembering, but congratulations. The demand there has been just incredible and people are doing awesome stuff with it. Um, Bill and I have not had a chance for a one-on-one since launch cuz it's been so crazy. We're doing one later. We're doing one later today.

But one of the things I was going to suggest to him was that we given how much excitement there is to build on this stuff that we do something we don't usually do and put out our intended road map of the things we're going to prioritize because I can imagine really cool new startups that simply were not possible that will be possible at each of these new things we'll ship.

So I I I had a question when you guys released the uh Sora 2 via API which was that if Sora has the potential to be a Instagram or or YouTube scale business, why release part of your edge for the entire world that they can integrate into other creative tools and then use the model to generate content that doesn't have a watermark, that's not in your feed, that you're not able to get that feedback loop on that you guys do with the SOAR for chatbt.

We also put out a great model in the API and people can theoretically compete with us on chatbt and some try to but like we are willing we're never going to build every cool use of the technology and we want the world to get all that stuff.

We're delighted to also get paid on people using our API but like we just want AI to flourish out in the world. We're not going to build every great use of what you can do with video models either. we'll build one and I think it's pretty awesome.

But people have a lot of other ideas of of businesses and products to go build and we'd like to enable those. Okay, last question back to cars. What's wrong with the Porsche 911? Yeah, you said earlier the timeline was in turmoil.

You said if you were worth uh somebody said uh if you million when you buy a 911, you said no. You agreed with PG. What What did you mean by that? Yeah. Uh I mean it was maybe it was like a tasteless joke. It was kind of like late at night. I was, you know, whatever.

But uh I I have an unfortunate proclivity for expensive cars. Yes. And and the response was like, "Would you ever spend 250k on a car? " And I took that literally. That's amazing. Hit the size gong for taking it literally. No, no time for 250k cars. Not But I probably That was not my best tweet, you know.

No, I I I enjoyed I enjoy it now that I have the context. Congratulations on all the progress to both of you. Thank you so much for taking the time to stop by the show. Really appreciate the and very excited to see where this goes. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon. I I don't think anyone read it. No one.

No one got it that way. That's amazing. 250K. How about two and a half? Very good. Uh anyway, we have our next guest joining in just a few minutes. In the meantime, let me tell you about Linear. Linear is a purpose-built tool for build planning and building products. Meet the system for modern software development.

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