Alexis Ohanian on women's sports investing, the 'barnacle economy' around AI foundation models, and why social media peaked in 2022

still always make coffee. Well, uh let me tell you about Linear. Linear is a purpose-built tool for planning and building products. Meet the system for modern software development, streamline, projects, and product road mapaps. And we have our second guest of the show, Alexis O'hane. Welcome to the stream. There he is.

How you doing? What's up, gentlemen? What's up? It's been too long. Oh, thank you. Congrats, guys. I I man, I just can't believe it. In like a year. Yeah, you've dominated all things LinkedIn media empire. I I hope it look the LinkedIn is the cornerstone of our empire. It's it's where we think first.

But you you saw that you saw the vision. You saw the vision before we had done any guests, before we had gone live. Like very very still dying to invest, guys. You just happen to make the most profitable podcast ever and you still need investor capital. We manifested it.

Well, if you if you want to invest, why don't you go turbo long Microsoft? They own LinkedIn. We're going to make LinkedIn amazing. It's going to flip every other social network. You'll make a bag. Not financial. No, I like the early stage guys. I publicly traded stocks. I It doesn't doesn't stir my cocoa.

Well, you need to use a 1000x leverage then in the public market. That's that's you need to be able to make it you need to be able to make a,000x or lose it all otherwise otherwise you just don't get the rush to fund. What uh uh what about uh in you could invest in a Microsoft treasury company.

You could buy a seed stage startup that just holds micro holds a thousandx levered Microsoft stock and then you get the exposure. You get to hang out with the founder. You're on the board but and you see the same financial upside. It can all work out maybe. Anyways, it's great. It's great to see you. What uh what's new?

What's new in your world? Dude, I well, you know, was very kind. Uh, I think for my second appearance on the show, you let me plug my women's track and field meet now team-based league that's coming, Athlos. We just had our event in New York. Nice. Dope, dope time.

Over three and a half million people tuned in this year. Spectacle. A lot of fun. Thank you to the internet. Yeah. Uh, we went wide on the distribution, so you could find it anywhere. YouTube, X, ESPN, the zone, didn't matter. Um, but it was cool.

And then, um, I don't I I was really coming on in part because I wanted to congratulate y'all. It's been awesome to see the ride. I've had the privilege of separately funding or or seating or you know playing early investment with y'all separate companies.

It's just been so awesome to see the trajectory, the execution, the vision and you know congrats. Welld deserved. I know it's just the start and um and this is just me buttering you up so that one day I can invest in the tech someday on on the early side.

Um um by the way, yesterday I was trying to hang out with a buddy. He could not. He was at the Angel City game. Oh, really? No way. Fantastic. Yeah. What's the uh what what's what's the update on that front? I mean, we're we're knocking on the door. We might be able to get in the playoffs here.

Um it's going to be it's a little tough. A little tough right now, but I'm hoping I'm hoping we get in there.

But that that was probably one of my favorite like I was like March of 19 when I rage tweeted about how undervalued women's professional sports was and in in proper Twitter fashion, most people said I was an idiot. No one cared about women's sports. But that that obviously has done pretty well.

And uh and yeah, thank him for being an Angel City supporter. I've got a couple extra spots in the suite if you've got there's a couple of listeners who want uh tickets.

You have to figure out a way to give it away here for the last home match of the season, but I'll gladly we'll just uh we'll just run a a raffle on LinkedIn. That'll be the way to That's where everyone is. the new alpha%.

Uh the also uh we uh Stoke space you're they announced like a half a billion in new funding last week. Yo, there was the f believe it or not. So five years ago, first space tech investment I've ever done. Uh and and very one shot in space. I Well, I mean, come on.

It's it was a it was one of those dangerous it's one of those dangerous first investments in a sector because then, you know, you end up thinking you're you're a genius at it. But uh but Andy Laps and the team are doing a hell of a job.

And and look, obviously Elon Musk has has changed the world with SpaceX, but I think we would all agree a little competition is is a good thing and uh and Andy's got a vision to do these fully 100% reusable rockets and the first launch is going to be at Cape Canaveral this summer and and very very proud of that team and just grateful to be uh little part of that.

You'll have to be there. You're going to go in person. Oh yeah. Do I'm bringing the whole 776 team. We visited. There's photos. Oh, if I plan, there's nothing like watching one of your startups do a launch and just act, you know, but but in the case of space, you have to you get a really tight feedback loop.

At least if somebody launches like a SAS company, it's like, oh, how how how do signups look after the first 24 hours? This is like how how does the rocket in one piece after 20 seconds like you know you know whether or not it worked. Yeah.

Um on on on the early stage side, uh I'd love to check in with you on just uh how you're feeling about AI because we had this foundation model war. Uh, it seems like that's cooling off.

Like Mark Zuckerberg's poaching different found co-founders of different teams, but it still seems like there's a bunch of fertile ground in the early stage, not even call it an AI company, but just a company that's like pulling AI off the shelf.

And I'd love to know kind of how you're thinking about the mobile era, like where the pockets of interesting value come from, what you're what excites you when you see a pitch.

Uh because I imagine you're not getting maybe you are but I imagine you're not getting excited about like yeah we're going up against open AI you know we're we're going to do everything that they're doing but better and it's like that ship has sailed. So so where are the ships that are leaving the port right now?

Um it feels like okay I'd say the companies there was this existential crisis probably two years ago where some of these 21 and 22 vintage companies that we had seated were like oh [ __ ] like the world has changed. Yeah.

And and a lot of the I think the the the smartest ones frankly pivoted hard to decide like how do we sell picks and shovels? How do we find ways to just get involved in this? And and we've seen a couple they won't even let me talk about them because their revenue is going so well.

They're like don't tell people about it. But there's a there there there's a type of company that is selling to all those foundation models that is it's basically like throw money at this problem. We don't need to be expert at it. We just need X. Maybe we need training data. Maybe we need whatever.

Here we call it here we call it the barnacle economy because the whales are are are getting so big that even if you're a barnacle you can go zero to hundred million dollars in a couple years. Uh and it's like a good way to kind of like get started. You're hitching a ride on a rocket ship.

You're riding a wave and then you go off and kind of you know source other customers over time and establish your market position. I I love I love Barnacle Economy. That is a good that is a good meme.

The the other one that's starting to peak now that you all would have great instincts on as well is that it's that whatever the application layer.

It's like how do you build the stuff that's actually dope for the end consumer that you know assume some of these larger models are going to continue to just be uh a solution for a lot of stuff but like let's say you want to see how you look in a Canadian tuxedo. There you go. Like uh this is dogee shameless. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like if you can make a delightful user experience and for a consumer social guy, this is where I feel like now a lot of my product instincts can start to shine because now I I think we're almost about to see consumer social get fun again and get good again.

People are realizing y'all are This is going to seem like I'm just kissing ass, but you all prove Let me continue. You all prove the point that so much of the internet is now just dead. This whole dead internet theory, right? It's not not my idea.

whether it's botted, whether it's quasi AI, you know, LinkedIn slop, like having proof of life, like live viewers and live content is really [ __ ] valuable to hold attention.

And and so I think we'll see a next generation of social media emerge that's verifiably human cuz like because it's all going down in the group chats now. That can't be that is not novel tech. There's got to be some next iteration of that because that's where all of us are getting our like really best info now.

And and similarly, I think we're going to get really delightful, fun consumer experiences where, you know, some scrappy founders in Brooklyn like the Doge guys can say, "Hey, let's make shopping fun again using this tech.

" And and even if you know the Googles of the world launch some janky tryon experience, like we know those companies are just terrible at innovating product and and aren't really a threat. Yeah.

The thing I've been thinking about is is uh is social is what we think of as a social media platform even harder to build now when you think of you're going up against generative media platforms that you know like Sora and like uh Vibes that are basically saying we'll spend hundreds of millions of dollars on compute to try to bootstrap this network.

It's like the last generation of even even the Tik Toks of the world was like, "Okay, you can compete against American social media companies. You just need to burn billions of dollars.

" What was the what was the vibe from you with Reddit back where you're like, "Okay, we need a little bit of cash and we need to, you know, clone ourselves a bunch on the platform. AWS credits or something. We'd get you going.

" Like it just But if you guys had needed like a hund00 million to burn on compute, it wouldn't necessarily have been able to pull that off. $72,000. That's always nice for 12k tiny gong. Yeah, we need a baby gong. Y massive gong for scrappiness and then 60 grand from an angel check from Paul Graham.

I actually You got 12k from YC. That was the first check for 7% of the company. It was worth it. Still worth it. But that is a different time. It's 2005. If you show up to saw this this day in history, uh, Intel IPOed and raised $6. 5 million. I mean, even inflation adjusted. Yeah.

So, it's funny, but that's and that's Oh, god. Okay, that's the other part that makes me a little nervous right now is the Well, I guess look, the everyone's seeing the rounds, everyone's seeing the markups and the valuations and stuff for still fairly early stage companies.

the founders that can maintain their discipline with a ton of cash sitting in their bank account are going to dominate in such a great way because we know you aren't going to need to blit scale like a decade before.

You have no excuse for trying to get hundreds of employees when in reality if you're a pure software company you want to build the Navy Seals, right? You're having dozens who are going to be able to get you on the revenue.

So if you can spend that money intelligently, obviously you got to drop a lot of into compute, but I I think it'll be it'll be interesting to watch because the blit scaling model didn't really make many people happy. There aren't many CEOs who are like, "God, I really loved when my company had a thousand employees.

" Um, as long as these guys and gals can be good stewards of the capital, I think we can keep this party going. It's just uh yeah, a lot of lot of lot of companies raising a lot right now. uh early uh what was your uh takeaway from the whole Tik Tok deal?

I know you were you were in the mix and it ultimately efforts it it ultimately ended up going for well beyond what it feels like the intrinsic value of the asset is especially in comparison it's like would you rather own Perplexity at 20 billion or Tik Tok at 15 right or at seven that like it feels like a big platform I I am still uh DMs are still open if they want to get me in the mix.

I do think, look, I I had a hunch. This this to me always felt like the kind of deal where you knew you were going to get it. Like, if you knew you were going to win it, you were going to know a minute ago. Sure. Uh and and and that is what it is. I'm still happy.

I've been publicly talking about how problematic Tik Tok was for sure years and years and years as a vehicle of the CCP. So, I'm I'm happy it's an American possession. Now, um I do think look, there's still there's still a lot of value to that zeitgeist to to affecting that.

And I don't know, it'll be interesting to watch. I mean, I did just say I think social media is about to get upended in some interesting ways, but I think with the right leadership, look, it's still look, it's still meaningful as all hell, and with the right leadership, it can continue to endure in this new era.

This is a fascinating question because Tik Tok feels like for the last maybe decade almost like they it has been the engine of innovation for social media in the sense that the first like hack of like let's actually use licensed music or a lot of the cap cut stuff and a lot of the oh remove the background automatic editing tools a lot of the collab features live streaming like they were definitely pushing the product design very fast.

I wonder if the last two years have just been like total chaos internally and like basically frozen product development because it's like not an exciting place to work. Everything's going to be under crazy scrutiny.

So even if there's some innovation like oh like instead of just like and retweet there's like a third button that's going to work really well like that hasn't rolled out. And where I'm where I'm thinking this goes is that um you know we heard OpenAI was going to do a social network.

They did Sora that was like somewhat telegraphed. Uh it makes a lot of sense that Meta would launch Vibes something in the AI social network AI Tik Tok. But Tik Tok should launch AI Tik Tok, right? Like and they've been they've been they've been fantastic at machine learning and AI.

They've had huge data centers running these incredible recommendation algorithms. That's why the Tik Tok algorithm feels so creepily accurate. You swipe five times on a car and it's like all car content for the next week. And they're really good at understanding like you like this car instead of this car.

And that's because of AI and and and their machine learning chops. they haven't brought that to bear in generative AI yet. And it seems logical, but I'm wondering if there's still a team there that would push that forward or if they'll just be way more reactive.

I you you bring up a really good point, especially because we've seen this creep up. And it felt like look, part of the advantage to uh to building in the space is you're right. I mean, they when we talk about the algorithm, we're talking about Tik Toks, right?

the effectiveness like you said that they were able to use machine learning to send you more of the stuff you want to keep swiping uh does feel like they've been frozen in time the last couple of years I think you could get look it's a it is a large enough property with enough cultural influence that I think you get some really talented people to come go build on it and look and company they know how to attract talented people to come build on stuff I wouldn't count it out yet the part and this is look a big reason why I'm still spending so much why why I continue spending more and more time in sports investing in sports teams league etc.

I think it's the last bastion of content and attention when you know 95 think of the future of Hollywood the entertainment industry the music industry it's going to be largely AI generated or assisted the the appointment television aside from live you know breaking uh tech and business news uh sport is like guaranteed huge and the the celebrity of being an athlete also endures even in the age of AI because why you're famous is not because people know about you it's because of the stuff that you do and and So I like there's got to be I think I think whatever that next platform is is either going to feel deeply intimate and human.

So it's it's the better version of the group chat that we all have. And I don't know if maybe it's another level anonymity, decentralization. I know the crypto bros are excited about that. There's there's potential there. Um or it's it it leans more into live um especially here in the west.

I feel like whatnot and others are still kind of scratching the surface whereas in China it seems like a much bigger part of the culture. So I I don't know. Um, but I'm I'm hopeful I'm hopeful we keep seeing more innovation here because as a as a consumer guy, I I think we've been starved for a long time. Yeah, totally.

Totally. Jordy, uh, there was some recent reporting that time on social media uh, in the Financial Times, time on social media peaked in 2022 with young people cutting back first. Uh, is that something? Did you did you ever predict that?

I mean, they're they're kind of you have to factor in I feel like COVID a little bit here. people going back to work, spending time on basically. It's really just people remote work ending and people like, "Okay. " Yeah. You literally go to the office and like Tik Tok is banned on the Wi-Fi, so you can't use it.

I like Okay, I like that we're beating this up. I definitely quote tweeted it because it validated my own worldview. And so I was like, "Well, obviously this is right. Let me victory lap. " I think I mean, look, okay, anecdotally, um, I should actually just look at this.

I'm I track all this [ __ ] So, I could probably just look at even just on my mobile phone time spent.

I don't know how far back that goes in that app, but but okay, anecdotally, look at um look at online dating and look at how I mean thankfully I'm married because I don't run, but like run clubs have become this new version of how to meet people. Um especially for younger generation. I got tired of swipe culture.

It it definitely feels like there is a younger generation of folks who are using the internet to find ways to commune offline whether it is events or run clubs. It feels like there's a there's a bit of a culture shift that's like Wait, did you say you're married so you don't run?

No, I'm saying I'm married so he doesn't go. It's also helpful that I also don't run cuz I like the idea that the only reason people run is to meet people. Like that is the like part of the TAM expansion. It really has been. No, no, it's a good point. No, but guys, guys, we can break I can break down why this is.

So, I'm very lucky. I know I know Whitney fairly well from Bumble, but also the OkayCubid guys from back in the day, I'm really dating myself. The the secret of online dating, assuming straight dating only for a second, is high-V value women get inundated by messages from guys.

And so, if they have a bad experience, they churn and your app fails. Yeah. And so, every successful dating website is on some level away to make sure that they're having a good time. Yep.

And what's interesting about run clubs is it it creates this social dynamic and a sort of physical real world one where if you literally cannot keep up and and so I like there is an interesting dynamic there that I think again I've taken a few of these pitches the the run club app the the dating app for real life like there's there's versions of this that are foaming up and so I want to believe I want to believe the burnout is real and then You combine it with just again the fact that so much of the stuff we're seeing is just it's to some degree botted or fake.

I mean I'm meeting I'm meeting founders. Let me give you a perfect example. Okay. So and this is something I wouldn't be surp Okay so CPG days you know how important having a subreddit is to the success of your product right huge. I got about nine months ago I heard from a founder.

I won't say what the subreddit is but he told me he's like oh I just bought the um breadmaking r/breadmaking. I just bought the breadmaking subreddit. I was like, I didn't know you could buy a subreddit. He said against toos.

I imagine that's against we definitely but but we found the seven moderator accounts and we bought each of those accounts. And so now we own those accounts. We can't we we control who becomes a new mod. So we own that subreddit.

And so very quietly every day on our it's not r/breadmaking but r/ breadmaking we make sure that there are posts that do well that are like oh I love my you know blahy blah bread because the value of the GPT um sort of training the engine what is it GEO now whatever GPT optimization the SEO of of today of the AIH it's so valuable that there's such an economic incentive now and you know if that's what the cracked founders are doing and I just learned about that six months ago, eight months ago.

Surely it was happening even before. Should we? And it it it it makes the underpinning of so much of what we consume online, you know, very much at risk again, which is why stuff like this starts to feel a lot more real and tangible. Should we buy out all the mods of our/communism and start killing them on capitalism?

We'd have to. I mean, it's it's it's interesting already for probably I imagine post luxury watches. I imagine they would be very principal if you tried if you offered $10,000. They'd be very principled. They'd be like, "There's no price that I would, you know, sell my account. " You offer them a million dollars.

H actually this communism thing sucks. I think 20K might do it. Everyone's going to have their price.

What do you think about uh I feel like there's been an idea I haven't I've I've seen some pitches over the last couple years of people uh selling this vision of like Instagram but it's just you and a million bots or and and so that feels like the social network the well it feels like a social network that you don't need a you know a billion dollars like to start like something like a Sora like very expensive not not any old team can just build that absolely Absolutely right, Jordy.

Thanks. Thanks, John. Um, it's not this, it's that. Um, but but but and and I think the reason that I think is somewhat interesting is people can say bots are a feature, not a bug, right? Like X clearly doesn't take bots as seriously as maybe they should.

And I think part of that is probably just brings back it's hard to solve, but it also brings it's like a notification, right? It brings people back to the app. there's a reason to uh check the app even if you're not getting real engagement.

But I've generally been bearish on these sort of just like entirely bot networks because I think people still want to feel like even if they're getting a notification from like an account that could be a bot, they're still running the calculus of like, oh, maybe it is a real person. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

It would have to be the utility of the bot, the why of the bot would have to be so great that no human could reasonably do it. So Reddit had a version, a third party version of this was like the remind me bot. Oh yeah. Where you would just tag in remind me and some amount of time and it will message you back.

So like there that that isn't it right. No no no reasonable human would keep track of all that [ __ ] Great use of a bot. Yep.

Um there there there could be uses for that but it would really like in each one of them it would have to be so worth it can't just be sick fancy like it has to be like no this actually adds some value that no human could reasonably do.

I think for me to get excited about it because people can still find the sycopants one to one. Yeah. Do you really need a hundred or a thousand and frankly, you know, probably 10% of humanity will fall in some way in in love with or in obsession with some kind of an AI.

Uh in the same way we lost people to MMO RPGs or what have you, like there there's a version of that to exist, but I I don't know about the one to many.

At the same time, it feels like about 10% of the population maybe will do the exact opposite and instead of getting lost in the hyper futuristic infinite gest, they will just go back to like logging off complete retro stuff.

Uh I want to know two things like the general take on on retro electronics, throwback websites, throwback tech. And then I want to know specifically uh what game are you playing on your mod retro chromatic most often these days because you've been posting a lot about it dude. Um I don't know if we totally announced it.

Well, okay. I I'm going to have to disclose. We're also an RIA. So now anything I say so I mean it is a 776 company. We're very lucky to invested with Torren and Palmer and and it is I am an unabashed gamer. It's it's I have I mean I have graded video games actually graded video games.

Oh, like uh like like older copies that are kept in the box. Look at this, guys. That's cool. This is original Game Boy. Wow. Like this is my art. Wow. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I I this was I I coveted this as a kid. We could not have I've long had this thesis now, Dad.

I I I've long had this thesis that I I don't know how it'll play out, but like uh in many ways uh video games can be the new golf for a generation of young people that grew up playing competitive video games and then they will like play games with their crew uh like online and like it'll actually like kind of be this place where people have business discussions in the lobby of Fortnite in a few years like once they get No, it is.

So three years ago, two years ago, uh was an early long time ago was an early investor in row row health. Z Ray Tano, founder and CEO. After our board meetings, we play Fortnite. Yeah. So, will this has been going on I think he does it with some other CEO.

I heard some hilarious story about a a kid who runs a company and does all his meetings in COD. He's like, "No, no, seriously. " I mean, he's like some like I don't know, crypto founder or something and and like he's a very small like lean company.

He's just like, "Oh, yeah, like let's just hop on Rust if we want to like hash this out. " Uh, but first, uh, I do want to know, uh, top mod retro game. I got Tetris, obviously. I got a few other games, but what should I get? Here you go. Self simulated. It's a platformer. It's a lot of fun.

It involves your robot dying in an infinite number of its clones having to make its way out. I may or may not be working on a game of my own. I was about to ask.

be ready for the holiday because if the mod retro chromatic install base gets big enough, you could potentially develop new games and it would probably be pretty cheap to develop because you're not trying to do GTA 5 with networking and stuff, right?

Like you're actually just like you could maybe even vibe code it a little bit. Like it's pretty doable. That is exactly right. I mean, this is an indie game and what's crazy is the amount of money I'm spending on this game is tens of thousands of dollars and that's everything.

And that's for basically developer, designer, a little bit of soundtrack, music stuff. Like it's it doesn't that's not GTA 6 money. Like that's that's accessible for just like an artist with like a couple backers. There's going to be a new crowdfunding boom potentially.

You could get new Kickstarter stuff going actually delivering stuff. That's super cool. And and and what I love about the constraint is similar to a great tweet, right? You're limited on characters. You got to make each one count. You're limited on pixels. You make each count.

And it forces you to think more about gameplay and do weirder interesting stuff. Like there's a sea shanty like Guitar Hero style game uh that I actually need to try uh on the chromatic where it's like that would have never been man come.

I loveies took the cost to be reasonable enough that you could get experimental and turn around a really high quality in a game. So, I'm bullish on it, especially cuz you know, every new Call of Duty, every new Battlefield, like the graphics get marginally better, but it's diminishing returns, right?

Oh, the buildings are now 99% more destructible. That's cool. But it doesn't it's not a huge step function. Like, will I buy the new Grand Theft Auto when it ever comes out? Of course. Of course. But but there's there's room for this kind of simpler format that it's it's very dope.

And, you know, Palmer's not stopping there. Uh, so if you've seen any of the tweets, there's some very cool hardware on the way. Uh, I'm very excited. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's uh I think he's on the schedule. Yeah. For later this month. Last question. How what's your framework and and view on AI companions broadly.

Uh it feels like one of those things that uh everybody has like kind of a moral framework around investing into. Elon obviously ran the calculus of it feels like a market that uh a lot of the other labs didn't want to lean into heavily. He was willing to uh to lean in. He went there. He went there.

Um but what's your because I'm sure you've gotten pitch uh probably hundreds of pitches. You haven't tried Claude sexy mode yet. This is where Oh Lord. This is definitely where I feel like uh there's probably look the market's gonna find the market's not necessarily going to regulate itself.

Th this is clearly one of the endg games for AI for some percentage of the population. Y I'm not like jumping out of bed to fund that company and you know thankfully Elon's doing it with those hentai uh characters, you know, but um but I do think okay the version of it that I think is very interesting to me.

There's and I've been using I mean maybe it just ends up being chatt or anthropic like I use them as a as a kind of executive coach in real time when I'm looking for feedback on emails or just my own sort of notes on stuff. Like there's there's some version of that that I think is interesting and compelling.

I like I I've been actively looking for the version of it that is kid-friendly but not you know and there there's been some interesting ones that have gotten funding.

I don't know I like because the way I use AI with my kid right now is it's just the always on tutor that we can sort of ask questions to or will provide trivia questions um for us on the use case.

It's been fun and it's great and we do a little creative storytelling, story writing, but it's always with me because I she's eight, right? I I still I want her to think of this as a tool that's going to give her superpowers to solve any problem she needs.

I'm excited to see here's another one uh you know that I think the Palmers of the world will be thinking about is if you're focused on consumer electronics like consumer hardware, the the way this generation, this AI native generation is going to interact with UI and UX is different from us.

And it's the same, it's the version of the kids swiping the magazine back in the day. Oh, yeah. They thought the iPad was broken, but it's a paper magazine, right? Cuz that form factor was so native to them.

There's an AI first almost a voice first version that I'm expecting like cuz even I I watch my daughter when she gets on her iPad for iPad time, like she usually uses the microphone to dictate text into the the prompts or what have you um instead of typing.

Like I'm trying to get around the whole quarity thing, but again, if I'm realistic, I'm like, well, this is way faster. These things, like literally, these things were designed to be slow so that the keys wouldn't jam on a typewriter, right?

And all the D'vorak keyboard people are like, "We told you finally we're validated. " But I actually think this this should feel like a relic from a bygone age if we build the right interface for it.

So, I think voice is going to get more interesting and I'm I'm looking towards the younger generation for just helping us uh get ideas out of our heads. Yeah. The combination of kids toys plus LLMs is interesting, too. I'm sure they'll be jailbroken in terrible ways immediately, but if you can combine like actual Yeah.

But we never did that on the internet in 2000 either. Yeah. If you can combine like like novel IP that's a hit plus the LLM layer where the the kid just doesn't love like a certain plushy thing. I mean, super underrated that OpenAI has a deal with uh, you know, everyone talks about Broadcom, Nvidia, Oracle.

They have a deal with Mattel. Like, or OpenAI and Barbie are in business together. Like, let's think about that for a second. And Ken,