The Infatuation's CEO on dining trends: non-alcoholic boom, 5:30 dinners, and LA's tough year

Speaker 1: Very cool. What have Great to have you on the show, Paul. Yeah. I Chris, your cofounder, is a good buddy. And, and, yeah, it's great to have you here.

Speaker 8: Thank you. Yeah. Chris and Andrew started Infatuation now sixteen years ago.

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 8: So we just celebrated our sweet 16 Sweet success. At the Selka in New York. Yeah. Exactly. Longevity is a good thing. It's And we're really proud to be carrying the tradition on and to continue to shine a light on all the great restaurants all over the country. That's what we're out doing this week is talking about our best new restaurants campaign.

Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. Break it down.

Speaker 8: Alright. So our team all over the country and in London, we went to over 5,000 restaurants this year. Mhmm. Spots, bagel places, pizza places all the way, especially out in LA. You guys have a lot of fine dining, a lot of omakaze. And we checked it all out and we crowned some of our favorites. So out in LA, places like Baby Bistro, River, Mustard's Bagels, Beethoven Market, and a bunch more. And then all over the country, looking not just at the best restaurants. I really liked Juul's in San Francisco this year for pizza. Smithereens is our number one in New York. But also looking at the trends. And what are we seeing out there? What are the threads? So obviously, marketing is continuing to

Speaker 1: How many people do you need to to properly evaluate 5,000 restaurants? Like, what does a team look like to pull that off? I'm assuming it's some internal, some external.

Speaker 8: Some of it's internal, some of it's freelance. The fun of it is bringing your friends because, you know, you can't go to a restaurant as one person and try everything. So we do a and a lot of restaurant critics, The Times and other places do it also. But we bring some folks around, we dine anonymously, we book under fake names, we pay for all the meals ourselves, Call it as we see it. And, yeah, it's a big effort from a lot of people. It's also we go back. And so we wanna give places that chance, especially when we're talking about a best new restaurant category. Wanna give people the chance to really show their best. And, yeah, we have a team around 50 people who who work on this for us. And then, yes, some freelancers and other folks as well.

Speaker 1: That makes sense. What is going on? Give us an update on the restaurant industry broadly. That was, you know, I obviously, restaurants tend to reflect, end up reflecting the state of the culture and the economy. And there was some reporting last week that we touched on briefly that, like, McDonald's is seeing a drop in in in purchasing from some lower income folks. That was surprising. I think people were pretty bearish about that. Maybe there's a different story there. But talk about kind of the health of the of of Yeah. Restaurants broadly. I'm assuming it's like a it's a pretty wide disparity.

Speaker 8: Yeah. And it's a complicated situation because you've obviously got Chipotle and others who've been out talking recently. But then, you know, The Wall Street Journal, I thought, had a good piece a week or so ago about how in New York, the kind of rich are keeping the party going. I think definitely when you talk to restaurateurs, look, folks in LA have had a tough year. No question. I'm sure you guys hear that a lot. Hopefully, starting to come back and

Speaker 1: And is that driven by the is that is that downstream from, like, the film industry not doing well? So just people in the creative world film are are just entertainment are just eating out less? Mhmm.

Speaker 8: You need expense accounts, you know, especially if you got a lease in Beverly Hills or you got a lease in West Hollywood, like, need people to be able to, put a corporate card down and and, spend a little more freely. But look, I think it's interesting also, you look at some of those trends and then you also look at things like $10 pastries and really elaborate matcha drinks and these small indulgences that people are definitely still treating themselves to. I mean, the cinnamon roll situation in New York had a outrageous year.

Speaker 1: Think you Wait. Is that

Speaker 9: is that

Speaker 1: the name of the restaurant?

Speaker 8: No. It's just you got one

Speaker 1: I thought I thought a restaurant called the cinnamon roll situation. It's like like we got a situation down here.

Speaker 8: It's a situation that we're monitoring. We're But we, I was on Yeah. Squawk Box this morning and the Today show earlier, and we brought pastries to all that. And it was like one cinnamon roll just got crazier than the next.

Speaker 2: And That's hilarious.

Speaker 8: So definitely, like, I think the restaurant industry situation is a big complex narrative across QSR, across fine dining, etcetera. I think the customer indulging themselves, treating themselves as another situation. And then look, there's no question that people drinking less is a huge factor for restaurateurs. And the folks who we're all, you know, friends within the industry, like, definitely, if you're not selling wine and you're not selling cocktails, that's a major headwind.

Speaker 1: Your profit margin.

Speaker 8: Yeah. Interesting. But look, you see the you see the $20 mocktail on a lot of menus now. Yeah. And definitely folks are trying to make the non alk stuff happen, and trying to make some money off non alk. But

Speaker 1: what you're seeing much. Yeah. So from what you're hearing or seeing, like, is it is it some people have gone from drinking to no drinking, and then a lot of other other people have gone from a like heavy drinking to just moderate drinking, and so they're seeing, like, both both types of of of, of guests just kind of like

Speaker 2: I recently went from no drinking to heavy drinking. It's been great.

Speaker 8: You guys are keeping the you guys are keeping the industry afloat. Look, I think there's a lot of people obviously, wellness is a huge, like, factor in so much stuff. We also see that in the hour people the hour people are eating. So, like, all of a sudden, 05:30 is a really hot time to go to a restaurant where, you know, a few years ago you were like embarrassed to ask someone to go to dinner at 05:30. I think

Speaker 7: It's there's a lot of people

Speaker 1: so clearly the problem. I just I I like to go to dinner at 05:30, sometimes five. I like to I I don't like to be digesting food when I'm going to bed.

Speaker 2: Really like that.

Speaker 1: And I don't I really I have, like, one one drink a month.

Speaker 2: Our audience is a lot of tech people. Do you have a recommendation for a restaurant that might be particularly good for planning a coup? If you're planning a boardroom coup, or maybe celebrating a successful boardroom coup, do you have a recommendation for a restaurant?

Speaker 8: And this needs to be in, like, the South Bay?

Speaker 2: I mean, ideally, San Francisco, but boardroom coups are happening all over, maybe in New York as well.

Speaker 8: San Francisco, look, a lot of great places. I mentioned Juul's Pizza earlier. That's where I would plot my coo.

Speaker 2: Is it quiet? Right now. You're not gonna be over There's

Speaker 8: like some corners.

Speaker 1: You could Yeah.

Speaker 8: Could tuck into a corner. We could

Speaker 1: tuck into a corner.

Speaker 2: I like

Speaker 8: The mayor was there recently and was, like, blowing them up.

Speaker 2: And Okay.

Speaker 8: Okay. They're where the action is.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like I feel like the the proper environment to plan a coup is sort of, like, leather leathers leather booths

Speaker 1: Ideally, some mahogany.

Speaker 2: Some mahogany, something like very where every little booth is, like, nestled off to at the side. No one can really see each other too much.

Speaker 8: Know in New York a New York little interesting development this year that did not get a lot of attention, but Fort Charles opened a private dining room. And so for as hard as it is to get a reservation at Fort Charles, the private dining room, if you got, like, $12 for a table of eight

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 8: They will have you any night you want,

Speaker 2: and it has exact billions of dollars at stake. So, know, what's What's

Speaker 1: the guy who's spending 12

Speaker 2: k on a stake? That's no problem. Yeah. Always like Pacific Dining Car in LA. That feels like a good place to plan a coup. I like a mafia movie vibe.

Speaker 1: How how is is is is Instagram still having the like, so so I don't I don't identify as a foodie at all. I I enjoy food. I don't I don't spend a ton of time, like, think seeking it out. But it there's been a lot of conversation over the last probably decade now around how Instagram is just driving every city on Earth to look the same. So like no matter where you go in the world now, can get like a matcha and you can get like New York style pizza from somebody who was maybe in living in New York like two years ago, whatever. Is there anything like, is there any parts of The US that are kind of like fighting back against that and like really trying to create a more localized food culture? And is that even possible anymore?

Speaker 8: Yeah. I mean, think definitely everything you're saying, you see, like, the matcha thing get crazier and crazier month by month. I saw Lauren Sherman said over the weekend, like, matcha is like kale. Like, people are just doing things to matcha that shouldn't be done. I think you've got, you know, pizzas everywhere. No question. And really good pizzas everywhere. And to your point, like, Mexico City is everywhere now.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 8: Where, like

Speaker 2: What is that?

Speaker 8: Every New York City like, every New York big opening this year is, like, Mexico City inspired in some way or another.

Speaker 7: Interesting.

Speaker 8: I would say, like, Nashville, I'd point to Texas. Like, I there's definitely pockets where you're seeing people really do something that's very unique. I think Miami has been an incredible food scene for us in the last few years. And definitely Miami even if it's not cuisine per se, like the personality of a Miami restaurant, Sunny's, which is one of our favorite steak houses down there, like, that restaurant could only be in Miami. And you definitely, like, feel that you're in Miami when you're there. But look, Beethoven Market, when you're sitting out on that terrace in Mar Vista, like, there's stroller parking. It very much feels like, oh, this is the West Side Of Los Angeles. And Wild Cherry, which just opened in the West Village Of New York, which is the a 24 restaurant. Like, it very much feels like, oh, we're in a kind of, like, New York canteen connected with a small theater. So there's definitely still places that are kinda creating that sense of unique personality.

Speaker 2: This is very cool. Thank you for coming on and giving us the update.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I got it. I've I've held up, by the way. I haven't had a matcha in at least a decade. I had tried it a long time ago, and and I haven't I haven't gone back. It's not for me. Yeah. It's not for me.

Speaker 8: We'll send you there's some good powder ones you can make at home Okay. That are really easy and pretty good to

Speaker 2: check out. Fantastic. Thank

Speaker 8: you, and congrats. Everyone's watching, man. Everyone's watching.

Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on so was lot of fun.

Speaker 1: Thank you for giving us an update

Speaker 2: on I'll get you back on

Speaker 1: state of the market, and, congrats on the on the launch.

Speaker 2: We'll see you. Have a good one.

Speaker 8: Yes, sir. Bye, guys.

Speaker 2: Let me tell you about public.cominvesting for those who take it seriously. They got multi asset investing, industry leading yields. They're trusted by millions. We are completely switching gears now from food and beverage to Jordan Nannos at, Semi Analysis taking us through the latest from ClusterMax. This is ClusterMax two point o. Correct?

Speaker 10: That's right. Yeah.