Bernstein semiconductor analyst Stacy Rasgon: AI demand shows no signs of slowing and it's not like 2001

mentioned in chatbt. Reach millions of consumers who are using AI to discover new products and brands. Are we in a bubble? What's going on? [laughter] introduce yourself for a second.

Sure. Uh my name is uh Stacy Rasgun. Yeah.

Uh I'm an uh stock analyst, an equity analyst. I'm a managing director and analyst, senior analyst at uh Bernstein Research,

where I look at the US semiconductor and semiconductor capital equipment space. And

thank you. Clearly AI has been uh the the only topic for a couple of years now.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Um I want you to react to this uh Catrini post here. says, "Just reviewed a bunch of stuff for our November macro memo. We might low-key be going into a recession, boys. No clue if this matters at all for stock prices anymore, though.

That's a good point. You could argue some parts of the econ and I'm I'm not a macro guy. I'm not an economist. However,

you could argue some some parts of the economy are already there, right? Right. I mean, they people use the phrase K-shaped recovery, which is sort of interesting, but

I think especially like the the the lower half of of the population is not actually doing all that well, right? And we've actually seen that more recently in a lot of just not not the semiconductor reports, but

a lot of the consumer reports and the restaurants and you you know the retail. Yeah. So there's probably parts of of the world that are already there and and clearly the infrastructure spending um the AI spending has been supporting GDP.

Yeah.

Uh and it's been supporting the stock market. I mean Nvidia's I can't even remember 8% 9% of the S&P now. So yeah,

that's remarkable.

We we may be there already.

Yeah.

So we had a we we had a thesis that uh that uh Nvidia is going to do just fine this this earning cycle. specifically the only reason not not just overall demand but that Jensen was slamming beer.

This is the most quantitative research. You can't get this out.

He's not acting like a CEO that's like really worried about his quarter. Although he I don't know that he would generally care anyways. However,

you know, they just did an event in in DC a couple of weeks ago called GTC. And

I mean he put a slide up behind him that basically said numbers next year are too low. Um what the slide said uh it said they had $500 billion in cumulative orders for Blackwell and Ruben. Blackwell is their current generation [clears throat] of AI servers and Rubin's the next generation. 500 billion cumulative across 2025 and 2026. And they said we've already sh I can't remember it's like 20 20 million chips for orders. And they said we've we've shipped six to date.

So we got 14 million left. They they've got five quarters. You and you can sort of figure out how much it is and you can compare that to where the numbers are. and he's basically saying numbers are too low. So I'm not terribly worried

going into the quarter on Wednesday. Now,

you know, with with stocks is as always it's not just the numbers, right? It's it's the numbers relative to the expectations. Totally. So I think everybody expects it to be good. So we'll see how how good he can make it.

It does feel like we've entered a period over the last month maybe where even beating would still result in a sell-off. Is that just everything priced to perfection? What's going on there? Yeah. I mean, especially in the AI side, there's been, you know, the sentiment es and flows. Yeah. Right. And and we've been in a bit of an eb.

Yeah.

And there's been a lot of stuff. You know, we had we had Bur's comments about a GPU lifetime and depreciation.

And we had a couple to be honest, a few I would what I would call selfowns on the part of the OpenAI folks, Alman and Meer. Um, a little like unnecessary angst that they that they caused.

Um,

they did they did that to inspire themselves to to have to work harder. H maybe maybe it's [laughter] you know it's it's right um look and you your early guys are we in the bubble or not I mean so bubbles are as as bubbles are right um you can look at a lot of things you can look at valuations

I mean Nvidia's uh mid mid20s price toward earnings right now it's not we haven't got anywhere near

crazy yet I mean I'll say the same thing I've said since this started and it's this it really got started you know chatb showed up in November of 22 and Nvidia's sort of print heard around the world was May of 23. That's that's when it started. And even then, people worried about, oh, okay, 2024 is going to be off, right? I'll say the same thing I said then. At some point, you know, nothing goes up into the right forever. At some point, you'll have a digestion or an air pocket or it's it's not now. It's clearly not now. That that's all I can say. I don't know when.

Yep.

But it's not now. It's not this year.

Yep.

Doesn't look like it's next year. And then all of these projects that OpenAI is is, you know, signing with with Broadcom and Nvidia and even AMD,

they don't even start to ship until the end of 2026.

So at least from a spending standpoint, from what we can see, it's probably not 2027 either. Now, we'll see what the stocks do. Like they tend to be anticipatory, but in terms of like an air pocket or something in spending, I'm I'm not really all that worried yet.

Yeah.

When I don't know, but like it's not now.

Yeah. Do you do you how much of you uh subscribed to this idea of like rolling rolling bubbles? So like right now like it seems like we've had we've had like explosion you know a lot of excitement around neoclouds this year. All you know pretty much all of them have sold off a ton in the last month maybe partly because of some of the comments uh out of the opening I camp and lack of lack of confidence. Um but uh but at the same time, you know, Seagate, Western Digital, these other companies are up, you know, tremendously.

I mean, yeah, the storage, they're covered by a colleague of mine, not but but I mean, they they just go up 10% every day, right? [laughter] But I but but that's the thing. It all really comes down to demand.

Demand is off off the charts. Nobody can get enough compute. The NeoClouds are all, you know, even even with Cororeweave, they there was they had a bit of a delay. They just don't have the capacity, right? They're they're pushed out a little bit. It's still there.

Um again, the storage guys are ripping because the memory prices are going through the roof because there there's so much um uh there's a lack of supply relative to demand.

Um all we've seen from the hyperscalers is is capex numbers going up and up and up and up. Like nobody can get enough compute right now. That that's where we are. And I think that is

sort of the overarch and that's the overarching thesis like either way. Like you go back to the to the question about GPU depreciation deprec uh uh GPU lifetimes for example

this is what Bur was getting at. He was saying oh well you know the they're all using you sixyear depreciation lifetimes in you know these things don't last more than three years because you've got new stuff coming. It's not true right now right? I mean you you can look they're still renting out old GPUs for I mean I for much more than it costs them to operate them. It's clearly possible to run them longer than than three years. It comes down to demand right now. demand is so strong it is absolutely economic

to run that stuff. If demand weakens maybe maybe it won't be but if demand weakens we're all screwed anyway, right? [laughter] I mean that so to me all of the bare cases that you that you come up right now to me collapse under the same thing. Is demand there or is it not? Right now it's it's it's there and it's not showing any the demand side is not showing any signs of awakening. What about the uh the the leaked phone call from Sarah Frier, the CFO of OpenAI, where uh there was this idea that uh potentially there was we

what she said was user minutes user minutes were dropping which implies

in the core chatbt app which feels like the leading indicator for all AI.

Yeah, but it's more than just open AI too, right? Now, now you could argue that we want open AAI to be there because like Altman's driving a lot of this incremental, you know, so we'll we'll we'll see, but I mean there there's there's lots of there's lots of demand. It's not just open, it's open AI. It's anthropically. It's Gemini.

Totally.

Um, in general right now, I mean, usage is going up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I'm sure we'll get more information on the on the Google side.

A little wary about some of the when you see these leaks like you always have to be a little careful about about

Yeah. It was very odd that it was like from an investor only call like what investor would leak back.

And by the way, we do we do calls like that and stuff gets taken out of context. So I was I don't I don't know what they said. I wasn't on on that call, but

I'm always a little hesitant to take I do this for a living, right? I'm always a little hesitant to take stuff at face value. You have to,

you know, you have to diligence.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean at the same time like to your point of the like scurve nature of these adoptions, it's possible that you know 800 million is a lot of people. You do at some point saturate everyone and you only there's only so much time in the day.

There's 8 billion people in the world.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean it took it took Facebook years to get up into the high

and that is that is the thing by the way. I've been doing this job almost 18 years.

Yeah.

Um same seat.

I've never seen anything like this before. Yeah.

Right. I mean this is this is unprecedented just in and that's why people get nervous.

Yeah.

Because the numbers have gotten so big. Yep.

So quickly you just sit there and stare at them. It's like this can't be sustainable.

We've been hearing it for for two and a half years.

Yeah.

Still going.

Yeah. So I mean in this idea of the K-shaped recovery or this uh you know cycle of little bubbles popping up and popping um how do you process something like corewave like it feels like everything is going so well and and to the point where the the the negativity around AI that is like a rumored leak of a phone call but then we're seeing a company trade down by 50% in a month.

Yeah. Well, again, I won't talk about core specifically, but but I mean, look, any anything that goes out where valuations are high, expectations are high, and

you know, it's not just that. Lot lots of things have have have weakened, you know, off off of peaks. I mean, it's fine. Yeah.

Um,

you know, the the the neoclouds in general, I mean, they're all seeing

tons of demand, right? They're, you know, it's it's I'm I'm not really worried in general right now about where the demand is going. The only thing we're seeing

in terms of spending intentions and everything else is right now is is is and again I think that that is the question how long does it last? I don't think anybody knows.

Um if you just look at like I said what at least what is

currently being forecasted by the companies that are doing the spending at this point there's no signs of a slowdown. Not not yet.

What do you think of this thesis that some of the hyperscalers are maybe offloading risk to the NeoCloud?

Oh they clearly are right. I I yeah which is which is fine. part of the purpose I think that the NeoCloud serve.

Sure.

You know, you're kind of at the tip of the spear, right? It's it's it's it's it's boom bust, right? Yeah. I mean, but that's that's part of their business model, I think.

What about what if you go further on the tip of the spear? Uh is a company like organization like Blue Owl or some of the on the financing side because Blue Owl is another example where you know uh like Google's doing very well, Microsoft's doing very well. uh the the hyperscalers are doing well very well even open AAI is doing very well growing a ton um but then you have some some froth in the neo clouds and some more froth in the private credit markets um what's your take on what's going on

yeah I mean those are probably frothier parts anyways um but I mean the financing question is interesting because

I I'd say some of the these debt deals again if you're looking at you know parallels to prior bubbles that is one thing that there's a few things that people worry about um

raising a lot of debt to do to fund this stuff and then they also worry about what they've called kind of circular revenues, right? There's a lot of like cross talk. Yeah. Between a lot of the the companies around here and maybe to address both of those,

I'd say on on the the the debt side, most of this capex is still being funded off of off of income statements. And again, that is one difference now versus say 2001 is

the companies that are driving the spending by and large are the largest, most profitable, best businesses that humanity has ever devised. I'm sure you remember what the actually largest business was in 2000. It was Exxon Mobile and Chevron. [clears throat] Different world.

It was big big oil and big oil was not driving and they were not funding the telecom build out.

I mean a lot of the companies they I mean they were raising money they weren't profitable. That does not run.

It was a very different thing. There wasn't like an immediate beneficiary that was that was just the oh the biggest companies are just getting bigger. So it is a very

and so in this case we are seeing starting to see some debt deals to fund this. But I'd say the by and large the vast majority is still being funded off of operating cash flows. That's I don't feel too bad.

Out of the 2.4 trillion that the Wall Street Journal estimated, the number that was funded by cash flows was 1.4 trillion and then there was 800 billion in uh in private credit. So it's

it's still a pretty reasonable debt to equity ratio in my opinion if you think about that way or debt to cash flow

for now. For now. Yeah. So that's and then in terms of like the the called the circularity. So I mean Nvidia is behind this. They're investing a lot and

they have deals in OpenAI, but I mean Jensen's got his fingers pretty much in every he's in every startup, right?

He's been doing it for a long time, too.

But think about like what else can he do with the cash? And and so I'm I'm hardressed to think of a better usage if you we'll see where the numbers go. But if you believe the numbers,

they're going to be generating hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of free cash flow over the next like five years, say.

So what can he do with it? He can't do big M&A. Nobody will let him,

right? Just nothing's going to get through any trust. They have a buyback and a dividend, but relative to their market cap, it's it's going to be dimminimous. There's no choice. And so,

is there anything better that you do except invest and help to grow the AI?

They also have a wildly different business in terms of M&A. Like with Microsoft, they buy LinkedIn. That makes a lot of sense in the Microsoft ecosystem. Uh, you know, Teams, they grow Azure, like there's all these different places where they can plug other businesses in. Like if Nvidia bought LinkedIn, we'd just be like, what is

But he tried to buy other stuff, right? He tried to buy Certainly certainly other pieces of this.

Could you imagine if he'd been able to buy ARM? By the way, he'd be unstoppable, right? So, nobody's going to let him do anything.

No one's going to let him. Yeah.

How uh how important do you think the Chinese market is to Nvidia? We we debate this.

It isn't and it isn't in the near at least it's not important to the numbers right now because it's out of the numbers.

Yeah.

So, and and and Nvidia, even AMD, they they took it out. So, that was smart because it's still questionable whether or not they will be allowed to sell. Um and so from a numbers standpoint it's okay. Um from a strategic standpoint I I think it is important and Jensen hasn't hidden this

second largest computing market.

It's it's more than that though. So it it is the second largest and again he's talked about $50 billion of lost opportunity and over the long term it's probably bigger than that right I mean China China's big but I think it's more strategic. You have to remember the the Chinese developers want to use Nvidia. They have better products right they do. However you're not going to stop China. So, China has has like companies like like Huawei, for example, that's basically a stateowned enterprise and

they already have parts in China that have higher performance than what Nvidia is allowed to sell there.

They do. They burn a lot more power. Chinese don't care. They just throw up another plant, right? But

but the thing is they're much harder to use. They don't use Nvidia's ecosystem. It's called CUDA. And the Chinese developers want to use Nvidia's ecosystem. If you don't allow him to to sell there,

what you do is you potentially encourage those local developers of whom there are a lot to coales potentially around a local alternative like like a Huawei for example and start to build up potentially over time a more robust ecosystem in in China and then then you're shut out and then the longer term be is once it's it's robust in China does it move out of China and now do you have a more robust global competitor? Um, and so that's why I think strategically, and he said almost exactly that, he hasn't tried to sugarcoat it. Where I think he gets a little bit of a benefit is at least with Huawei,

the parts because of some of the other US sanctions,

they have to make their chips at local companies like Smick on deficient process technology. So, the chips don't work as well. They're not as power efficient. I do not think those chips will really be competitive outside of China where they will be competing on a global basis with much better products from Nvidia or AMD or or whoever. So I think that helps.

Um but ideally you you and and you know Lutnik said this. He what did he say? He said we want to get them addicted to our technology and to I wouldn't have said it that way but he's [laughter] out of line but he's right.

Right. Um we'd like him using it and to have some control over it and and and if and we're letting that slip away.

Yeah.

And so yeah and I I don't think it's it's great that he's not able to sell strategically. At least from a number standpoint it's it's out right now. I want you to react to this uh quote from the CEO of KKR. Uh he says, "And candidly, when we read some of these headlines, it's clear that many of us have PTSD from the financial crisis and are looking for what will trigger the next one. Like where is the next boogeyman?" From our standpoint, this market and economy really don't provide a simple narrative like that. What do you think?

It's I think that's true. And to be fair, I started this job in April of 2008, about three weeks after Bear Sterns failed. That that's when I made my move to Wall Street.

Yeah.

And so I was forged in that fire and I have the financial crisis like tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. [laughter] I lived through it. It was a remarkable time by the way

uh to live through Wall Street. This is this is not like that.

Yeah.

Um that was people thought the world was coming, but we we'll we'll see like if there is an air pocket may maybe it will become like that. But people really thought the world was coming to an end back then. Um, but are people looking for the Yeah, maybe. Right. There's people are always investors always looking for pattern recognition. One thing that I go back to on the patent recognition side is just um I feel like for it to feel like there is a world where there's some massive correction and like a lot of the top players see big haircuts but uh it's just hard to imagine a big widespread like with the dot boom every random person on the street was trading.com stocks. Uh with the NFT boom everyone had Bitcoin. They were telling you, "Oh, you got to buy Cardono, you got to buy this, you got to buy that, you got to buy this NFT." And then in the housing bubble, everyone was like, "Yeah, I just got a second house. More didn't zero down mortgage. They didn't check my income." And so there was a lot of like places where just hundreds of millions of Americans could participate in the bubble on the way up and on the way down. And here it just feels harder.

There there's some I mean there there's a lot more retail participation I think in the market than there Yeah. Robin Hood and all this, you know,

and they they they get a little nasty sometimes. They trade these zero day to expiration options and all that. So there there's some of that. I don't think it's maybe as widespread as as what we've seen in the past, but probably is some of some of that.

I just Yeah. I just wonder if like if you go to the the the median American uh do they have significant exposure to the data center buildout right now?

No. So I mean maybe their electric bills.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that's but if there's a collapse that's going to go down that's going to be cheaper

presumably and by the way there's two ways that it could quote unquote collapse right so and and they have different implications. So one is just you know there's a digestion cycle there's an air pocket there and you look at the hyperscalers how they spend money even before AI they would tend to build and digest and build and digest it happens

and I always say like what's the chance of a digestion cycle it it's it'll happen at some point

I like this digestion cycle

but that wouldn't be structural like a digestion

it would be good for the you get hold it through that like the way it quote unquote collapses is and it gets back to some of your earlier questions on on the return if it turns out we're spending all this money there's no return Then the whole thing comes crumbling down. Totally for everybody. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. But it's like it's like I I just really struggle to imagine a world where it's like, oh yeah, like it was so bad that like Apple's at a 10 PE.

Like Google is no longer valuable. It's like these companies have been valuable for decades. Like where are they going to they can go down a little bit, but like they're just not that exposed at this point. Anyway,

someone in the chat asked, "Please ask Stacy about CDS spreads affecting debt financing costs." So that's Oracle and weave

uh i.e. how does the domino start?

Yeah, it's it's it's a little out of my wheelhouse the CDS, but people are looking at a few specific areas like like Oracle.

Yeah.

And Oracle I mean Oracle is not not exactly a hypers scale but they're trying to be a hyperscaler sort of um and and they don't have the balance sheet and the income statement to fund it. So they are going more to the debt market and core weave I mean clearly you know they they have to to fund with debt with debt. Most of the other ones you look at look like look at a Google or a Met or an Amazon like you're not in that kind of a stage right they're still they're raising a little bit of debt but they're still primarily funding this out of out of free cash flow basically out of cash from operations. Yeah.

So uh

but it is people people are starting to look at it like for sure

for sure.

Yeah. Have you have you tracked uh situational awareness the hedge fund Leopold Ashen?

I have not. No.

What is that?

Uh uh former openai researcher. Oh, this is that kid that started the He's got four billion under management.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

And I was curious. So, so his strategy like he he raised the fund like at the beginning of this year or closed it.

Closed it. He was raising it for

he'd been raising it for a while, but but started deploying aggressively this year and and has performed

really well at least.

It's the best performing hedge fund. Okay.

In the world.

He's in the right place at the right time, right? And the whole thesis was just AI is going is real. Do you think do you think some more traditional hedge funds have sort of just overthought the AI trade over the last year? I don't know about

because it's not like he it's not like he was buying like somewhat somewhat uh

he had a somewhat unique uh take.

He had a very informed take but it wasn't

but he also didn't go Nvidia. He went Intel. He went other places on the map.

So by the way Intel's gone up not because of AI. Intel's gone up because you know Donald Trump wants the stock to go which is a bull case. that's fine, you know, but it's not an AI story. Um, my view in general, and yes, I don't know if specific hedge funds have been, you know, overthinking or not.

I haven't wanted to overthink it. My my general call this year has mostly been own the high quality AI names. Ignore most of the rest. Like that's that's been fine, right? It hasn't had to be complicated. Number go up, right? That's [laughter] right.

It hasn't had to be it hasn't had to be complicated.

Number go up.

Well, well, I mean, what do you uh what do you put in that high quality name bucket? Uh, do you put the iPhone?

I mean, we've covered like Nvidian Broadcom, for example, mostly those. Um, yeah. And, you know,

we've been more lukewarm on AMD and and and that's one I've missed, right? Because, you know, it it's also like ripped. They haven't necessarily had to be quote unquote high quality to work, right? Because right now, we've been again, if you think of an S-curve, if we're on that that

exponential growth part, it it it takes everybody up, right? It's been fine. But again, you haven't had to over complicate anything. Uh, not yet. Yeah. What about uh I mean talking about not over complicating it like if you just bought Google and Microsoft that's a pretty broad index on AI between you got to remember like like it wasn't that long ago that people were looking at Google as an AI loser.

Totally. Yeah. No, it changed. It completely changed. Completely changed. Um they positioned themselves very very well. Um uh Catrini has another post here on the 2022. I saw a lot of very smart people in 2022 f uh fail to recognize the reality of reflexivity i.e. stupid headlines that with a few hours of research could reasonally dismissed as nothing of consequence would add fuel to the fire and result in further downside. Understanding that this dynamic works to the upside as well as the downside means that yes, even if you know that the CDS on Oracle and Coree are blowing out because the CDS market is easily pushed around by a few parties, trying to get cute and hedge their exposure to AI lending. Uh you also recognize that if enough people view that CDS widening is indicative of a problem, it will become a problem. What do you think about these stupid headlines?

I I mean headlines have certainly been more of the bane of my existence [laughter] probably over the last couple years. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, yes. So, there have been lots of movements

from headlines that if you if you were had any depth of of subject matter expertise, you you'd know the headline itself didn't mean anything.

Yeah. What do what do you fall back on? Do you go to the earnings reports or Yeah, I'll give you an example.

That kind of stuff tends to correct itself over time, too. I mean, you get pops and I mean, I'll give you example for from my own coverage and and this is a stock that that I like. Qualcomm announced um uh and this was this is their headline. It wasn't like some stupid headlinear, but they announced like an AI like server

and there was wasn't a whole lot of information the pressure the stock went up 20% the moment of the and then and then it kind of gave it back as it but it had a you had a pretty big pop

on the headline just because it was AI whereas if if you know you kind of know and by the don't get me wrong I mean there there's you we'll see what happens with that with that uh product with them and

you know again you can argue it's option value and everything but they go up 20% on on one day was was probably overdone and it gave it back you That's fine.

Yeah, makes sense.

Giving it back, I feel like, has been the story of Oracle. They got this, you know, tremendous pop off the OpenAI deal. Now, they've retraced to below it. It's lower than it was before, which to me says like either the market

doesn't believe that

it's it's real and or that the other reading would be it's real, but it's not going to be ROI positive. Right.

Yeah. Um again for Oracle without making any comments on on Oracle I mean th those are the for for any of these investments those are the worries that you're going to have right yeah either because again especially if it's open AI

so Alman's committed to a tremendous amount of capacity I I mean it's just between on on the chip side between Nvidia Broadcom and AMD it's 26 gawatt

right and just for some context I think the whole global data center installed electrical capacity know I don't I want to say something like 70 gigawatt something in that ballpark right

all right so It's it's a lot. I mean, he was even making comments he wanted to deliver what was it a gigawatt a week at one point. I I mean it's a lot, right? And so

you already are wondering can he actually deliver on that or or or not? And and those are valid questions and and I but I wouldn't I wouldn't count Altman out like he's a aggressive but you know he's got like like large aspirations. Um, but then with someone like an Oracle like who doesn't have the balance sheet or the income statement that some of the others do and and you look at the size of the the I can't even remember what it was 400 billion dollars or something. It was a massive step up 300 um in in one quarter

like you wonder where it was coming from. It's always around like can they deliver it and can they pay for it and and those are the general worries I think for anybody that's announcing something. Yeah. Are you gonna have

how do analysts try and dig into uh you know there's quality of earnings, quality of revenue, quality of backlog feels like an important thing to dig into, but I don't know that the contracts are available.

They're they're not right. So look, I I mean you you talk to whoever you can and

you know you've you've been doing this while you look for pattern recognition, but I mean look, nothing in semiconductors is ever really baked.

Sure.

Right. I I mean, in fact, we just discovered why like during co they a lot of these companies were experimenting with with quote unquote non-cancellable orders.

Sure.

And we saw what happens. It's like, yes, maybe I could contractually force my customer to take a year's worth of parts they don't need.

Yeah.

Am I really going to do that? Historically, the answer was no.

Yep.

During co for some companies, the answer was yes. And and those particular companies are are still paying for it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because Okay, great. I just took all my parts. I don't need to order anything from you for for a year. Right. That makes sense. Um, and so I'm always a little hesitant of of of backlog and and commits. And even some of these, by the way, even with these open AI deals, they put out big numbers, but it's not like the whole thing is committed like maybe the first gigawatt at this point. Totally. Totally. And which is how it should be.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense.

It's great.

Are you AGI pilled?

No. Probably not. [laughter]

Probably.

I'm not exactly sure what AGI means yet. You know, there's a lot of different definitions and sometimes it tends to change.

Well, do you find AI useful in your day? No, I I I I do. I have to be a little careful because

from a regulatory and compliance standpoint, it's not like I can just start throwing stuff into I'm very limited. We have some internal stuff that we can use which is

enterprise plan.

Yeah. And and it's it's it's ring fenced and everything.

Um but I mean simple stuff, right? I I I mean you what was this notebook LM? I can literally take I could take a YouTube of this what is it three-hour podcast and toss it in there

and it'll give me a summary. Not just a summary. Then we can take that summary, put it into another model and say, "Make me a three hour."

Sure. Yeah. [laughter] Pretty soon it's just AI is making and watching podcast, right?

A slurry of content.

But that's just one example. Like so there there were there were clearly

ways where it's influenced my my experience in my in my workload. And I'm probably on the low end frankly of of of what I could be using if I am I am constrained.

Sure.

On what I can can do with this. I' I'd love to use it more if I could.

That makes a lot of sense. Uh well, thank you so much for coming by the studio. This is a lot of fun.

Thank you, bud.

Have a great rest of your day. We'll talk to you soon.

Cheers.

While he's hopping off, let me tell you about Linear. Linear is a purpose-built tool for planning and building products,