Delian Asparouhov: Jared Isaacman is the best possible NASA pick, and the moon is the right pit stop on the way to Mars

partner at Founders Fund, co-founder of Varda Space Industries in the Reream Waiting Room. Now he's in the TBP and Ultradome. And if I'm not in correct, are you in Miami?

Uh, you know, there's uh, you know, so Sunshine in California as well. Okay. Sometimes it sometimes does feel like it.

I'm just wondering about your your backdrop. Uh, is this San Francisco? Where are we? Where are we? Take us I mean, you're so used to seeing you in the Va office. True. Today you're catching me in the Prescidio. If it's too bright, let me know. But I think turn down the blinds. But I like uh I like just getting blasted with sunshine whenever I can.

Great.

I think it's actually uh I think it's actually adjusting. So you look great. Um

I feel great.

Fantastic. Um take us through uh take take us through the It's been a while since we caught up. Thank you for hopping on the show after a a hiatus and breaking your silence. Um I I I want you know the quick update on Jerick Isaacman first. uh what's the status of things there? What are the implications? Uh what's the mood in the in the space economy? What's the mood amongst your team? Are people excited? Are people thinking that that's going to move forward?

Yeah. Look, I think I can't imagine you're sort of a better you sort of leader for NASA um than you know, sort of Jared, right? Somebody that like literally is like willing to put their life on the line and actually do some of the like I mean he did literally the first commercial spacew walk that's ever been done in human history, right? Um, so he's like, you know, putting his neck on the line, but then also somebody who's obviously built a phenomenal business and understands, you know, how to think about ROI, how to manage a workforce, you know, how to think about connection into, you know, capital markets. And so, um, yeah, I would generally generally say like across the entire commercial space industry, like, you know, ecstasic mood, um, you know, my like, you know, various moles in the US Senate, etc. Make it seem that, you know, things are all, you know, sort of, you know, tracking on plan and, you know, going going well there. um he's definitely got to you know sort of pay the piper and you know shake hands and everything but uh he's you know you know uh done that and then in some ways it's like the likelihood that they pull it for a second time it's like man you already you know shot the guy down to the ground once like you know can't can't do it again so feel highly likely I think like there's a ton of implications you know for that probably the one that I you know get excited for the most you know just as an American um is the likelihood that we make sure that we you know sort of beat the Chinese you back to the moon I think just you increase significantly you sort of through there's already, you know, some rumors starting to, you know, you know, come out of, um, his interest in starting to get, you know, more and more options to the table in terms of how we, you know, sort of get to the moon, uh, beyond what's been, you know, sort of currently contracted. And so, um, I like that and I like, you know, I think we talked about this in some of like our prior, you know, sort of discussions. But I really like this program called clips, um, within the Lunar program where basically rather than trying to set a budget and say, here's how I want you to build XYZ thing, the way that they basically pay contractors is, um, just a flat fee for each kilogram of down mass down to the lunar surface. Basically, it's just like, you know, you get something onto the moon, we basically give you, I forget, I think it's like basically $100,000 basically a kilogram. But like you get margin on that, you figure out how to do it cheaper. Great. That's all on you. But that's like to me where NASA should be. It's like for these like things that aren't yet really commercial and don't make sense, be the first buyer, establish the market, and then that's what kickstarts basically the commercial, you know, sort of economy side of it. Um, so that's obviously been like a ton of activity. Obviously, there's a whole set of SpaceX things, you know, that have been, you know, sort of happening over the past year sort of month. Yeah, let's let's pause on this on the SpaceX stuff. I want to stay on uh on NASA. The the way I was thinking about uh Jared Isaacman uh and just kind of framing like the broader discussion of the lunar economy, the this the the orbital economy was uh this idea of like are you a Mars guy or a moon guy in the short term? And and I don't know if this is like too simplistic, so maybe you can just bring a bunch of nuance, but it does feel like, you know, Elon has been beating the drum on like Mars, Mars, Mars, and like maybe the moon is like, you know, a pit stop along the way. And then some other folks, some of the more legacy space flight providers are a little bit more focused on the tractable get to the moon. But then you have different folks breaking different ways like Casey Hanmer's really obsessed with beating China to the moon. Uh obviously Mike Salana at Founders Fine is Moon should be a state. Uh and and and and and there's a whole bunch of different things, but is there do you think that there's a real trade-off between like should we be prioritizing moon or Mars in the short term? How how do you think about that? You know, when I think about like why Elon was so dead set on this like, you know, call it, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, um I think it had more to do with the fact that um the moon can be seen as a distraction if our capabilities as a species are limited because the moon is not a place where you can send up a you know sort of permanent colony that is you know so sustainable and independent of Earth, right? You know, sort of no atmosphere terraforming is impossible in some ways like you know because of that likely to be highly highly dependent on Earth. it's not really like a backup, you know, sort of function, you know, you know, relative to, you know, sort of Mars. And so when I think about like Elon of 10 years ago, it was basically like, look, we're so decrepit as a industry in the United States or, you know, across the globe that if we like set a goal, we need to like really keep the goal very very focused and so you have to go straight to Mars. I think just like the world of today is fundamentally very different where we're just like much more capable of an industry in terms of just like you know I don't know if you guys saw this but I tweeted that you know in November was the first time in human history where there were more orbital rocket launches than there were days in the month. That's right. That's the first time that's ever happened you know in human history. Um and so that obviously you points to like we just like are much more capable as a species. And so in that world of more call like space abundance, um I don't worry as much and I admit that I've always been more in the like the moon is absolutely the right pit stop on the way to Mars and you know advocated for that for a long time. Um and I think in this world of abundance it's a lot easier to see that and now you even have Elon you know in some ways has totally reversed course of like yeah he talked about like making a mass driver on the moon. So you make like huge amounts of solar panels and data centers there and then are shipping them up you know basically you know to orbit. Um

mass driver define that. Um, yes. One second. We just uh shut the blinds real quick.

No worries. While he's shutting the blinds, let me do an ad read for Cognition. Cognition is the team behind the AI software engineer Devon. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. He's also an investor, so I don't feel bad doing an ad read for his own company.

I feel like I just kind of got paid for that a little bit, too. Like, yeah, you know, Rob's got woo, baby. So,

if it was a if it was a competitor to FF, I wouldn't do it. But I I got to sneak these things in. Got to pay the bills over here. Uh anyway, so take us through what is a mass driver on the moon.

So um on Earth, um uh there's been a variety of ways that we've hypothesized basically, you know, sort of getting things up to orbit. Only one that is, you know, sort of really worked, right? Uh which is basically, you know, chemical combustion, you know, put, you know, liquid fuel and an oxidizer, you know, basically um you know, in a rocket and launch up to space.

There's people that have tried to work on um other alternatives. So, um, if you guys remember Spin Launch, the company that would basically spin things up really, really fast,

yeet aerospace. They would ye it out into the aeros space.

Um, so that's the spin version. You could also imagine the like rocket or like you know, sled version. It's like an electromagnetic sled that is super super long. So rather than like spinning fast, you basically like, you know, have like a mag lev train effectively, but just like many many miles long. So you get it up space and shoot it up. Um now the reason that that's difficult on Earth is um down here on the surface where the spin launches or the mag left sled thing would be are still in the atmosphere and so by the time you're getting to like you know caught if you got to orbital velocity you're still like in this thick atmosphere and so just like crazy heat crazy drag etc. And so really difficult EW basically to do and so it's basically why we effectively use rockets is because like they have a way of starting off slowly while they're in the atmosphere getting out of it and then going more quickly once you're out of the atmosphere. Um on the moon there is no atmosphere. Um and so the advantage there is you can basically set up effectively like a you know mag left track. You also don't have to go that fast because the moon's gravity well is way less. Um and so it's super easy to basically like imagine a world where we you know mine a bunch of like very simple metals and things like that on the moon. Make this like magnet train and now all of a sudden you just have something on the moon that you can like point towards Earth if you want to like send something into like lower earth orbit. But also now if you want to like point it out to Jupiter or Mars etc. It's just like a phenomenal effectively you can think of it as like train station effectively where like I wouldn't be surprised that even if we are going to Mars there's a world where like you know yeah maybe the humans are just going straight from earth to Mars but I wouldn't be surprised if like a lot of the materials or metals or like you know produce things especially if we have like an industrial outpost on the moon the moon is the one that is like sending the solar panels to Mars or is sending the bioreactors or like the like agricultural equipment etc. That stuff's all coming from the moon because it's like literally basically like free to effectively like send it um um send it to Mars. Yeah.

And so that's an idea that's been talked about in sci-fi for a long time. Partially in some ways it's also like it's the best weapon in the world. Um in that like you can just shoot a rock, you know, at the really fast and then hit, you know, anybody that you want and you basically can't stop it. Um but yeah,

speaking of space weapons, is there any movement on Golden Dome?

Um uh so I don't know if you guys saw, but uh MDA, uh basically put out this um shield, um Idiq for where they're going to do a lot of the Golden Dome work, not all of it. Um uh they I want to say it was like now two Wednesdays ago. Um maybe it was a little earlier than that. Um maybe it was last week. Um but uh they basically announced that about I think it was 3,000 people had applied to be a part of the program. Um you know about a thousand contractors basically got awarded to be on contract um and to you know sort of um you know acknowledge my colleagues. Thank you to the you know Varta team for putting together a great proposal and technology and we got to be a part of that. Um, still would say all the stuff is, you know, sort of, you know, early in that, um, there's definitely some, you know, the Space Force actually announced that they, uh, you know, gave out their first, uh, space-based intercept, uh, contracts. They didn't, um, name who won those contracts because of national security reasons, but yeah, you're starting to see stuff that was like, you know, sort of theorized early on in the admin. Um, and now Space Force has obviously handed out those first contracts. Missile Events Agency has handed out those first contracts. Um, and so becoming real, I'd say in terms of like first demos, fielded capabilities, you're still a little ways away. I think by like end of next year, you'll probably start to see some of the first stuff really, you know, start happening. And then in 2027 is where I think you'll just have a bunch of like, you know, demonstrations across everything from like space radar or space intercept, you know, space to ground stuff um you know you know advanced ground radar systems, advanced hypersonic interceptors that come from the ground um from all these you know sort of new um you know both your traditional you know sort of primes and some of these like neoprimes um you know coming to the table for golden dome. So um yeah becoming real. I think the important thing for something like Golden Dome is like you want to make sure that um if there's a change in administration, you get to keep some of the advancement capabilities. And the best way to ensure that happens is like make sure that they're fielded. Like if a new admin comes in and it's still like an R&D land, it's easier for them to cancel it versus like if it's something that like the war fighter literally like has access to and is using. Well, then it's like you know sort of much more likely that um you know much more likely um that they're going to you know should keep it keep it around because the war fighter will insist on like hey we like built this and we use it and this helps us deter China. Why would we like unfund it basically?

Yeah.

Do you have any idea how uh Jared thinks about the NASA budget? It was about $25 billion last year. I could see one stance where it's like $25 billion is a lot of money and it's enough. We can do a lot with it. There's another I could also imagine him being like we got to get those numbers up.

Um I think politically right now the you know White House's budget was actually less than you know 25 billion. Um and so the likelihood of him you know coming out politically and saying I want more probably doesn't totally jive with like you know hey Trump just reappointed you. Um, but I think keeping it flat but using it far more efficiently that I can see him being like a huge advocate for and like yeah he's made it pretty damn clear. We've talked about this before but like

I mean especially now with you know one thing oh one thing that we haven't talked about you know is New Glenn right like you know for the first time we have a second you know orbital rocket that is reusable in the United States and by the way that thing is like really big right like you know much larger than a Falcon 9. And so at this point when you've got both Starship flying regularly and you have New Glenn flying regularly, the idea of like NASA still building rockets through the like SLS program is like even more crazy because it's like you have multiple commercial providers and by the way like Neutron from you know Rocket Lab will probably be online next year. Stoke space will be online. So um I think the exciting you know thing about you know Jared is just like a a strong willingness to go slash out budgets that are things that the commercial industry is already doing more effectively more cheaply and then go assign that to things like clips, lunar landings, etc. where I think Jared is going to be the advocate of keep it at 25 because there's just like a bunch of things that like are very large programs that now can effectively just be cut to zero.

Yeah.

Do you know what's going on with asteroid Bennu? They discovered some some like sugars sugar stardust. This was like last week it got announced but we we didn't really get a chance to cover it.

Yeah. So um you know uh funny story of this um so if you remember um the first VA mission where we got stuck up in orbit right uh we launched in June of 2023 the original goal was to land in August September of 2023. Part of why we chose where we were going to land was because there had been some early like um cosmic you know sort of dust and uh both sorry solar um dust and co uh asteroid dust missions that had landed in that same range. But the other reason that we chose it was because in um uh it was going to be Halloween of I believe 23 Osiris Rex the asteroid sample mission from Bennu was also going to land there. Um uh obviously we ultimately ended up getting delayed and so rather than VA being first in the asteroid you know mission coming in and said it was the other order asteroid mission came in but point being our team paid a lot of attention to that asteroid sample coming in given that like that was sort of the precedent for Varta being able to you basically come back uh from space um and that mission was the one that had the venue um samples on board.

Okay. So it's just now it's just now getting like disclosed or or talked about.

Yeah. Yeah. basically um you know obviously with something this material and significant like you want to make sure that you've you know dotted the eyes and cross the tees and also like it takes time to go analyze these samples and like handle it etc. So yeah, the asteroid sample, yeah, landed like I want to say October, November of 2023. Um, and now obviously this is all starting to get published 2 years later. Uh, what they effectively, you know, sort of showed was that on the asteroid, um, you have effectively like the building blocks of, you know, life. Uh, which, you know, yeah, uh, uh, which, uh, and this is my favorite, you know, term in the world, uh, uh, um, uh, build more data for the panspermia, um, hypothesis. Um so the panspermia um hypothesis is that uh uh the early building blocks of life are plentiful uh in the universe. Um and a part of how um they um get distributed in the universe is through um you know basically collisions that end up you know you have like you know some early protolanet it collides with some other big planet um and then there's crazy asteroids that get sent out at high speed but those asteroids have a little bit of like sugars and ribos etc. That's what actually like basically like incepts planet on a future or incepts life on a future basically planet. One of my favorite graphs um that I saw you know um which I could you pull this up right now but um uh if you look at the average length of a genome on Earth over various periods of time right if we look at like old fossils etc. um the most complex genome basically has a perfect linear relationship between basically the age of earth um and the you know sort of genomic length.

The thing though is if you were to extrapolate that line downwards if you go to when the start of earth is um it was already at a relatively complex genome like if you look at like the length of a human genome the length of bacteria length of virus etc. It would predict that earth has not been around long enough to have the level of complexity of genomes that we have given this linear relationship. And so it strongly supports the idea that like the reason we have life on earth is actually like there were some earlier solar system planet etc that did the early building blocks and got a certain stage and then kicked us off because like it collided with something some asteroid then went and landed on earth and the building blocks sort of started us you know a little further in that like you know trajectory of life. basically the plot of Prometheus.

Exactly. Yeah.

So if you look at sort of the like Fermy's you know sort of paradox

what this implies is that highly likely the great filter is actually basically behind humanity in that like um given that this likely suggests that there is you know sort of the building blocks of life all over earth but that we do not yet see signals it means that there's probably some filter that makes it difficult to go from like early building blocks to intelligence more so than you know basically like intelligence being you you know uh you know risky for you know being able to like spread out into the stars and so it is there's this great graph that showed like um all the potential you know basically like um answers to the Fermies paradox but this one basically shifted it significantly towards the world of like there is abundant um non-intelligent life in the universe and we just happen to be the first intelligent one. Um and as we go out we will probably see lots of early building blocks and as we spread we may start to see other very early you know sort of life you know sort of planets that maybe are just getting into bacteria or like early mammals and things like that. So um

yeah it's really exciting time means the universe is plentiful in terms of life.

That's f fascinating. Uh poly market just uh skyrocketing on the odds of UFO disclosure. Are you are you long or short aliens being real? Um I mean especially with this panserbia hypothesis like you know very you know sort of you know long um I think there's obviously some sort of insider gov info that is coming out like you see a polymark market like that spike so much somebody knows something and is driven on it. Um so you know what I love about poly market it's like people are like is it insider trading and it's like yes that's the point.

Finally saying saying it out loud.

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's wild. Um what what about uh I mean I I want to go through a bunch of stuff. Um I

SpaceX stuff.

Yeah. I mean I imagine that you can't comment on the actual like IPO rumors, but uh I would be interested to hear about like what you know key like looking back on 20 25 for that company looking forward to 26. What are you excited about? Uh and then also like what do you think people might misunderstand about SpaceX uh that uh that that you know is the story that we start seeing told maybe if they hypothetically go public one day.

Yeah. Let's see. Um, you know, to me, um, it feels like the company's like, you know, sort of very on track in that, um, you know, when people started talking about Starship in like 2020 21, I remember telling people like, look, this is like super exciting. But if you just look at the complexity of that vehicle relative to Falcon 9, it's a huge step up in complexity, but that's also roughly the step up in terms of like size of company that SpaceX is and complexity that they can take on. And so then my like quick math is like well then it'll probably take about just as fal as much time as Falcon 9 to get to like you know true production rate. And so there were people that were like no they'll be like you know like fully online by 25 commercial flying super regularly and I always remember saying in like 2020 I was like I don't think that that's going to you know sort of be the case. I think it'll be closer to like end of decade because that's you know roughly the time frame that Falcon 9 you know sort of took. Yep.

Um and so that's where I kind of see them where it's like yeah they like are obviously making phenomenal progress you know sort of with Starship. Um, I don't think that we're going to be seeing like, you know, you know, this year it's going to be on the order of, I forget, I think like 200, you know, sort of Falcon 9, you know, sort of rocket launches. I don't think that we're going to see 200 Starship launches until, yeah, probably end of decade would still be my like, you know, sort of rough bet. Um, but I still think it's like a really phenomenal outcome.

Yeah, they're going they're going similarly on on timing and speed, but they're blowing up more rockets than Falcon 9 because I think the third Falcon 9 rocket was successful, something like that. Uh, and

yes, but they had a bunch of landings that they blew up, which is a more complex market. Like, you know, people forget that like Yeah. I mean, for what it's worth, Starship is already functional and online. It's just like not, you know, fully reusable.

Yeah. I I think a lot of people I think a lot of people misunderstand that like when it's blowing up, it's usually blowing up like on the way down. Like, it's not It very quickly was like, okay, it takes off successfully. It gets up to the top and then it and then it starts blowing up on the way down.

Bounces off the No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not bouncing off anything. It is in fact going to space.

It is going to space.

It is Space is real. Space is real here on this show.

It glances off the top.

That's very funny. Um, okay. Are are you Yeah. Sorry. Continue.

I was going to say, yeah, people under appreciate that like Starship is actually a very successful rocket already. Um, it can take things up to orbit at like very large scale at very cheap prices literally today. It just happens to be that like Yeah. They're still figuring out the landing thing, but obviously they want to figure that out before they get to like super mass production rate.

Um I think the other story that is really going to start to be told is um just their shift to like more things that are, you know, extraterrestrial and that like you are going to see SpaceX do I think some very impressive things that are way beyond the bounds of lower Earth orbit over the coming, you know, sort of couple years. Obviously, they have a huge contract with NASA to like figure out how to land things on the moon and that type of activity is something that they like are spending a lot of resources on internally. But I don't think it's like that public of a story relative to like Starship, Starlink, etc.

I saw something uh I saw I saw this like uh article that had like all these motion graphics uh very cool and it was explaining star how Starship will take stuff to the moon and it was something like they're going to do like 26 refuelings in space and then get that just feels like we in the 60s we could just go straight there and now we got to stop for gas 26 times. Like why should I not be blackmailed on this? Is this like this is crazy? It just seems crazy to me, but break it down. What's actually going on?

Um, so funny um historical fact from the like Apollo days, there was actually a huge um debate internally at NASA whether or not to take the um like fuel stop approach versus the like shoot straight for the moon approach. Okay.

Um there was a significant chunk of NASA led by it was like Pete something I want to say that really wanted to do the gas station approach. The reason being that they saw that as what would make it so that going to the moon was just much more long-term sustainable because you have these like pieces of infrastructure and it's easy to like send things mission by mission without each individual mission basically being super risky. Yeah.

And the other you know side of the approach which was just shoot straight for the moon was largely led by Verer von Braun. A part of why he liked the shoot straight for the moon thing is because it allowed him to just make one really really big rocket rather than launching lots of small rockets. Um and I think he was just like addicted to put one out. I do think probably that was the right call for the time and allowed to like pick up your skis etc.

But counterintuitively the like refueling and you know sort of fuel stations approach is actually the just like the much more long-term sustainable one and that like as we think about like you know going to Mars very regularly going to the moon.

You don't want to necessarily have to take on the risk of like you know just like on a car trip you don't take all your fuel literally with you like your gas along the way and that makes it so that the vehicle that is moving things is much simpler. Same thing here. You want to set up a more stable logistics and supply chain. actually do want you basically these types of fuel stops.

Um but yeah, that's a part of what SpaceX needs to prove is like um you I think that number that you're citing in terms of number of refuels is more for a full Mars mission for the moon. I think it's more like three refules. So it is definitely you know sort of simpler by uh going going to the moon.

Also it does seem like we've rebuilt the capacity to just yeet stuff directly to the moon because didn't Firefly land something up there like like and China's going up and stuff direct like like we we we we seriously have checked that box like several times. It's not even like humans on the moon once. Like I think we sent six manned missions, right?

Um.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But I think we want to get that to like 600. It's going to be like through the fuel stop, you know, approach probably. And what I like is that we're parallel tracking which like the things that Firefly and China have done. Those things are just amplified by the fuel stop, you know, basically approach when like that, you know, comes online. So I like that we're parallel tracking it. And this goes back to a little bit of the Jared Isaacman thing. Like, man, if I were in Jared Isaacman's shoes right now, I would basically just go to like, you know, NASA and just be like, hey, Fireflies like figured out how to land on the moon, I don't understand why we wouldn't just jam a bunch of funding down their throats and tell them like, don't just do it once a year, but I want you like doing it on a quarterly basis, and I want you to basically now establish like a regular supply chain there. So, now I can go fund a bunch of companies that are like making lunar humanoids and lunar robots and pavers and solar panel assemblers, etc. So like while we're in parallel doing the like fuel stop human architecture, we also just like have these direct approaches that are landing robots there. So we're just like landing equipment there non-stop and figuring out how to like you know basically make sure that by the time the humans are there we actually have like a bunch of like robotic infrastructure that's like you know autonomous and basically set up and so um yeah I think like that that parallel approach

that that is super sci-fi. I love that. Uh but that feels like if we can do that we can certainly put some data centers in space. What's your how's your thinking evolving on that? Because uh Casey Hammer just came out pro data center in space like you had you had us in the

Elon's been been posting about it.

Yeah, Elon I mean you really kicked the horns because it's like Elon Sundar like this YC company seems to be doing pretty well. There's like there's like four different attack vectors on you and I love it. It's contrarian position but are you maintaining it or is your thinking evolving? Um, look, I'm gonna, you know, uh, uh, maintain my position because no information has changed. Okay. U, you know, people, you have said words, but they have not presented compelling, you know, sort of arguments.

Okay.

Um,

where I think there's a little bit of like a gray area is like, look, I currently have two data centers that are in space.

Sure.

I'm not doing like AI comput on them, but I have like a bunch of computers up in space that could go do inference and like training, etc. Starlink each of the satellites has compute that's on board. They could be you know basically you know sort of data centers in space. So I think the question more is like

you change up your you change up your tune Delian. You're looking at the next 20 billion public company.

I think so. Can we smack this? I saw you hanging out with uh with

I don't know if you're doing your duty to shareholders in the way that you're spending this.

Come on. Yeah. Just stop being so re realistic.

Too modest. Too modest. Too much of a

real We're putting a quantum computer on it too. It's

I literally have like multiple shareholders that have opinion and been like, "Okay, like I know that you don't like the data center space thing, but like what if we use the space factories to make things that go into the data center

exactly fab a little bit and I'm just like love you guys like you know my job is to build a business that like you know delivers revenue and shareholder returns not just pure hype." Um, but yeah, I think it's where it's like it's on the margin where it's like look, do I think that like the SpaceX like economics are going to beat out like

nuclearpowered data centers run by Crusoe in Texas?

No, man. Come on. Like I just like in order for that to work, you have to be like short nuclear, short, you know, optical fiber on the ground, short the ability to like, you know, build buildings, short solar panels, short batteries. It's just like all of those things are making incredible progress super rapidly and in space those things are more complex. are there going to be, you know, sort of marginal, you know, sort of areas and use cases and more broadly as we just like have more and more of like internet and connectivity where there there are real benefits to being in space and so then you by default just have more infrastructure up there. And so yes, some of those things may be dedicated to compute, but like yeah, is Crusoe almost certainly going to have like better economics than like a space-based data center in 2030? Yeah, I think that's going to be the case. And so that might mean that like 98.5% of data centers, you know, are all on the ground. If some small sliver for certain use cases or you're doing like compute on things that are calculated in orbit or like you know um you there's you know cameras, you know, that are up there and you're trying to you should do things or it's like there's people that are up in orbit and you know they want to catch GBT in orbit then yeah again there might be these like slivers but it's going to be you know feel very confident that it's going to be slivers. Who knows? Maybe we'll look at this recording in 2032 and like you know I'll been like

people will be mocking you. dunking on you. The young The young Delion will literally be saying like Delian's been like the next Delion. You know, the young guy that loves Yeah. They'll be like, "Oh, he's chopped Del.

I'm Del."

Yeah. He only predicted humanoids assembling pavers on the moon, not data centers. Uh anyway,

big detail guy. Big

Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. This is a lot of fun.

Always always great to chat. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. We'll see you soon.

Merry Christmas. See you soon, boys. Bye.

We're going to tell you about eight.com. Jillian's an investor. Exceptional sleep without exception. Get an eight for Christmas. Gift it for Christmas. Get a good night's sleep this Christmas with eight sleep.

I got a 92. Jordy, how'd you do?

O, I got an 86.

I got a 92, but I'm in a terrible sleep debt, which is rough. I'm on like a 4 hour or 5 hour sleep. I don't care that you won because I'm in such a good mood because of this Christmas music. I like it. It's really going in.

This is the longest. We have Yes, we