David Senra on why founders are the only real storytellers — and why compounding is everything in media

We have David Senra in the studio in the TVPN Ultra Dome. We're going to bring him down. We'll talk to him about podcasting. Maybe we'll touch on podcasting. Maybe we'll touch on media. No, you know what I want to talk to you about first? Uh we've beat this story to death, but a few days ago, uh this uh Wall Street Journal article went viral on how all tech companies are trying to hire storytellers, and I want your unfiltered thoughts on on storytellers and and uh entrepreneurship and whether storytellers can be bought or or they merely exist. um a lot I I I think the read just to set the table was that so basically there are a number of jobs that have popped up in Silicon Valley $250,000 um for someone whose job title is just storyteller and that feels very broad because is that a copywriter is that someone who buys ads what what are they doing?

Do you think it's important for a founder to be good at telling stories?

Yeah, of course.

I'm just kid I'm just kidding. [laughter] Well, take us through a lot.

Well, and and so my my take was like the best storytellers are just not for hire because they're running companies, right?

I mean, who do you think is the best storyteller or salesman alive today?

Probably Elon.

Yeah. And before him,

basically

Steve Jobs.

There you go. Yeah, it's very important. Steve Jobs.

There's a great uh quote um from Don Valentine, the founder of Sequoia, who talked about this

and I actually put it in my ads for one of my partners

and he's like, "The art of storytelling is critically important." Most entrepreneurs that come to us can't tell a story

and that learning to tell a story is really important because money flows as a function of the stories.

Uh so yeah, I don't know. I I didn't read the article. I don't read any of that [ __ ] Um

but I do [laughter] but I do um listen to you guys and I heard you go over it

and I think uh like Vanta was one of them trying to hire. Yeah.

Yeah. So like

I I think Yeah. They were one of my big partners. like they pay a lot more than $250,000 and I think I'm just like the person that needs to tell that story and I think that's the Yeah, I think like obviously Christina is really good from founder level. Um but even if you don't have like the very few people have the Elon or the the the the Steve Jobs skill set and so I think like we've talked about this over and over again and like you just partner with the people that are able to tell that story.

Yes.

Like let me give an example. Um Mr. Beast texted me like two days ago. He's like look up my Spotify rap and number one was the was founders podcast. Yeah,

I want to talk with the new show, not founders, but so we'll get to that in a minute.

But um he we're in a group chat. It's me, him, and all the founders of RAMP.

And his whole thing was that like he didn't know what RAMP was. He he text this to Kareem and Eric and he's like now we've switched over my company to RAMP because like I feel like I know every single thing that's going on inside ramp because I get a minute or two minute update every week from David. And if you listen to my ramp ads, it's not like this is, you know, it's just corporate cards. It's like

the same every time. how you're digging into different pieces of

it's not that it's not the same every time because I think actually repetition is persuasive. So, I have three or four versions and I repeat them over and over again, but Ramp and I, as you guys know, have a multi-year partnership.

So, but his point was just like, oh,

fair.

It's [laughter] more than a partnership.

So, his you should see the shirt I have underneath this hoodie.

It's ramp. Um, so the the point that he was telling them, it's like he now knows how Eric, the CEO, thinks, he knows how Kareem, the co-founder and CTO CTO, thinks. He knows their hiring practices. My ads are just stories about RAMP, not and if you pay attention to them, then you're like, "Oh, like I want to work with a company that takes this that seriously, that does 300 different updates to their product on a yearly basis that's nearly impossible to get hired as an engineer that is trying to lead from the very front, an AI."

Um, and you know, these are very effective storytellers to the point those ads converted the biggest creator on in the world to use your product. So, I think that's what companies should be doing. Paying somebody 250 grand maybe, I don't know. How how structural do you think uh storytelling should be? Because I I really like systems thinking. I like I like I like systems and processes. So when I think about telling a story, I actually do think about a three-act structure. I think about who's the protagonist, what's the antagonist, like I can map it out on a piece of paper.

I know this is from your YouTube days.

Yes. Exactly. No, I literally think about I studied I studied the books on it and I studied and I created like structure around it. There are other people that are much less structural, but when you when you are trying to like when I tell the story of a founder on a YouTube video essay, I would literally map their journey to a beginning, middle, and end act one and act two and act three. What happens at the end of act one? You're crossing into the unknown. What happens to

you're you're describing the oldest story there is. Of course, the hero's journey.

Yes. the hero's journey, try and map it to the to the hero's journey. Uh do you think about that when you are constructing an interview for David Senra, your new show? Are you trying to start with let's do the early life and then at h at oneird or or you know 20 minutes into the interview I'm going to try and get you into tell me about the crossing into the unknown. Okay. Then how are you structuring the episodes if not following a huge

I am just like the way I think about my work is very simple and I think it's really important because there's this great line from Munger where he's like you know the rarest of all things is to keep things simple and remember what you set out to do right the value in what I do is that I'm going to be doing very similar things now I was doing it 10 years ago doing it 10 years from now that is the value it's in the compounding nature of it

um so the way I try to keep remember to keep things simple

is founders is the books that I'm intensely interested in reading

and the new show is who am I intensely interested in speaking to

and talking to?

Yeah, there have been multi-billionaire public company CEOs that asked to be on the show and I started doing research about them. I was like, I don't want to spend any time with this guy. Like, I'm just not interested in talking to him at all. And me and Rob, my partner, my partners are Andrew Humeman, and Rob Moore on the new show

and you know, Rob kind of pushes back sometimes and it's just like, I just don't want to talk to him. What do you want me to tell you?

And you know, he's like, this is actually good that you would say no to somebody like that. Um I don't think of things in in like obviously the hero's journey if you listen to founders like that is essentially that is what I'm doing over and over again. Um I think that comes naturally to me but I don't think of things in structure. I'm just very almost everything for me is like I I'm intensely interested in what I'm working on. I consume I try to consume more information about that subject subject matter than anybody else in the world and then I just go straight off intuition.

I just wonder if I think one thing that's interesting about that intuition will develop a structure. I don't know. I I think that makes sense.

I don't know. You listen to the podcast. I mean, do you see a structure there?

Uh I Well, you're how many episodes in?

Six.

Six. Like I I would assume that in a decade um I will be able to somewhat predict a structure and you won't you won't need to ever sit down and map out I'm going to ask this question before this question. It'll just come to you naturally. But that intuition will happen and it will make sense. But you will know the rules and also know when to break them. So it won't like there are stories that are told in four acts. There are stories that are told in five acts. There there are stories that don't map perfectly onto the hero's journey because it's actually a love story or it's actually, you know, some other structure of story.

I think storytelling is downstream from interest. So I heard um Jordy say something that I think is dead right. It's like you you guys are using the term storyteller when it's really like you're talking about like copyriter, right? And what I would do is I'd go back and study this guy named Claude Hopkins. Can one of the guys check? I think it's episode 170 of founders

and he wrote this book called scientific advertising and I found him because I read not only you know

it is 170 a life in advertising.

When did I do that? How [laughter] how how long ago was that?

March March 8 uh 2021. Okay. So 2021. So this is my point. It's just like intensely interested in what you're doing and then um

and then just try to collect as much information as possible. Essentially they I found this guy named David Oggovy.

Then he would write about every single person that you're interested in will tell you who influenced who influenced them. And this guy wrote uh this is Claude Hopkins probably the greatest copyrighter to ever to live.

And he wrote this book called scientific advertising that if I'm pretty sure if you buy his autobiography on Kindle you get my life in advertising and then the end you get scientific advertising uh for free. But I think every single person on the planet should read scientific advertising because Claude Hopkins worked for this guy named Albert Lasker. Albert Lasker built he made more money as an advertising agency founder than anybody else in history.

And all he did essentially cut away all the fat. He didn't have an art department. Didn't have a research department. He had two of the best copyriters and their words made the cash register ring. and inside. I'm saying it's like it's such an elite skill set like using using only your words you can you can get the you can bend the world

but you have this is it's the amount of you have to one be intensely interested in the subject and two you have to be willing to do an insane amount of work and in

well that was why that was why sorry to interrupt you but when when the point brought up ear the point you brought up earlier

like if I'm trying to hire a storyteller I want to hire the best writer I don't want somebody that wants to be the chief storyteller of a business I want them to be obsessed with writing and actually understand how important it is. I don't want them to like

best communicator, not writer. Just so happens at that time writing was the form of communication. So let me let me just finish the story real quick.

Albert he wrote scientific advertising. Albert Lasker reads it. He's like this is our trade secrets. This is why I'm so rich. Like it's going in the safe. He literally locked the manuscript in a safe for 20 years. Then when he retired he let Claude Hopkins publish it and wind up selling eight or 10 or 12 million copies.

Wow. And so, but when you go into there, like Claude Hopkins, uh, let me give you an example, and this is something I think I do really good on the podcast ads, is like talking about the story behind how the product is made.

And so, there was this big beer at the time. It's like Schlitz beer or something like that. It was like fifth market share. Yeah.

And so, they hire Claude Hopkins. He goes and visits him. He visits their distillery. He interviews all the top founders, the founders of the company, the executives. He spends an insane amount of time with it. And then he goes, "Hey, you have this like remarkable brewing process that is like fascinating with all these machines and this technology and like I drank your beer, but I didn't know what was going on. Why don't you tell that story?" And their whole point was, "But our process isn't different from any other beer company." He's like, "Yeah, but no other beer company is telling the story." And all he did was tell in text of like a,000, 2,000, 3,000 words

the story behind how the product is made. this when you when you hear a founders episode or the new show like the James Dyson episode just came out. It was one of the best days of my entire life to be able to spend several hours with him. The amount of [ __ ] people Am I going to get you in trouble on the stream cursing?

No, no, it's fine. It's fine. There's one there's one listener

who

that that takes issue with it.

Yeah.

Tell me. He doesn't like the swearing.

Okay. Well, I apologize.

David has a potty mouth, but it's it's you. It's you. I appreciate it.

So, the That's funny. the um I now I lost. Oh, the amount of people that sent me messages after that podcast or other podcasts have been uh made on him that now because I understand who the person is and what went into building the product like I went and bought his haird dryer or his vacuum cleaner works for everything.

Um yes, it's interesting. We every that that the style of advertisement which was like you had a page of a magazine and you had a basically an opportunity to put a a picture and then a block of text. it kind of like comes back in fa it's constantly like coming back in fashion and I think the reason for it even though it's not like the most native format for the internet is it's because when companies sit down and they're like how do we sell our product in a short paragraph often times companies never do that right the modern ad you the modern way that you communicate is like you have a big website somebody has to scroll all over the website to really be sold on something or you have an ad that's like targeting different things or different value props but when you just sit down and write one paragraph of exactly why somebody should care about your product and why they should purchase it. It's just extremely effective.

Ramp's doing this with Harry Dry. Have you ever paid attention to Harry Dry's Twitter feed? Do you know who that is?

No.

Fantastic copyriter out of Europe. I think he's might be in England and he's worked with Eric hand in hand and they've done a couple, you know, and and it's posted if I'm not mistaken on like Eric's Twitter feed. He's like that is still a very effective ad unit.

Yeah.

Um so to answer your question, I don't know. Like yes, telling your story is a good idea. like the founder should do as much as possible. Then the founder should be really teaching how they think about their business. I always like Jim Synagogle, the founder of Costco, has this great uh this great quote where he's like if you're not spending 90% of your time teaching, you're not doing your job. And his whole point is like the direction's coming from you. You talk about this is what we're doing. This is why we're doing this is how we do it. And you repeat repeat over and over again. And you know, people like, oh yeah, but Jim Synagogle, you know, he's running Costco. It's not a tech company. Well, go read go watch uh the episode I did How Elon Works. And in that I just break down I super way everything that that has nothing to do with how other than how Elon works. And this four-step algorithm he got to the point where he's like he says in the book I repeated it so much that the executives are sitting in the meeting would mouth the next word that's coming out of my mouth.

Repeat repeat.

Um

Dave Portoy did this today. He had this announcement video and and uh it looks like very

unprofessional in the way that it's shot. It's clearly shot in an iPhone. and he's standing in front of glass and he's just kind of like rambling but he's just going Netflix he said it like 15 times cuz they were announcing a deal uh bunch of bar stool podcasts are going on Netflix uh and he's just like Netflix and like you just immediately like it doesn't look

you want to listen to pardon my you want to watch pardon my take Netflix you want to watch spitting chicklets Netflix you just keep saying Netflix it is very

very on on repetition something that I've appreciated about our relationship is I feel like when we all get together it's almost the same conversation every single time. Uh, and you would think you would get bored of it, but because we're extremely obsessed and focused, it's like it's actually helpful in that like we're remembering like why we do this, why why why we make the decisions that we make and almost just kind of like constantly reminding ourselves and I think that's very helpful of like not uh we talked about how we're thinking about somebody asked us what our

is this Emily Sunberg.

Yeah, she she asked

Can you read that exact quote? I thought it was really good.

Oh, we were supposed to It's in the show notes, I think, today or yesterday. But, uh, um,

I'll pull it up. Our 2026 resolution is to lock in. We had a great 2025 and it opened up a lot of amazing and fun opportunities. But the most contrarian thing we think we can do the next year is simply double down on the core show itself. That means having to say no to anything that doesn't improve the show directly. No fun, no products, no world tour, just 3 [snorts] hours of talking about tech and business at 11:00 a.m. every weekday. The world tour was uh was my little sneaky joke is you know what what is a world tour? Like isn't there that whole meme of like it's going to ruin the world tour?

Well, we we did we I mean we are we had an opportunity to go to uh Switzerland.

Oh turn that down.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean I guess we've had a couple like world tour. Not not full tour but like trip international trip.

But if we were to go to Europe it'd turn into a tour.

Maybe. Yeah.

Went to the Middle East it would turn into a tour. Sure.

You know you're going all the way over there. Maybe that happens, but not next year. We're locking in next year. The interesting thing is that uh friend of the show, Bryce, said that the uh he was he was he was sort of like framing it as like these guys have realized that like media can be a better business. Yeah. Yeah.

He he text me yesterday. Yeah. And asked for advice on this uh format of a new podcast and I was like, I'm not watching that. I won't say what it is though.

I don't even think it it's not that it's a better business. It's just a better business for Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, so obviously like no no no shade here but uh it it is just like you know the founder market fit like it is ridiculous to say that media is a better business than asset management. Like that's just not true. Look at the Ford 400 there. Like it's it's it's all industrialists or asset managers. There are very very few media figures that actually are in the 100red billion plus club. It just doesn't happen. But can you be hugely successful? Absolutely. Can you be very happy? Absolutely. Is it a better fit for us? Absolutely. And so um I would not asset managers will leave and pivot.

I consider

I I enjoy investing in startups.

I always have I've invested in

probably every every few months I got to add another 10.

Sure.

Uh but uh yeah, some something over over 60 companies. And so I last year wandering in the wilderness, you know, trying to figure out how I wanted to spend my life. I considered that, but there's zero. Yeah. That or join a fund, you know, it's I think like being a solo GP is maybe

uh overrated in a bunch of ways, but uh I there's I I would be 10 10% as happy or fulfilled doing that even though

uh there's a career to be built.

Cheers.

The I wanted to talk ask you about question one second. I want to go back to what you just said about like the the the conversations being very similar and and repeatable. Um I just did this episode on Bruce Springsteen which I was like very unsure if I was going to put it out. I recorded for like three hours. I edited down to like 1 hour and like 15 minutes. It's the most unusual um episode of founders that I've probably ever done. The amount of people that have now text or sent me messages that like they're crying during it has been like shocking. It wasn't it turned out I thought I was making a podcast on you know somebody had one of the most uh extreme work ethics that I've ever heard of. That's that was my introduction to him. I didn't know I wasn't like a Bruce Greenstein fan. I'm a huge Jimmy I fan who's really like almost like best friends of Bruce and you know he says one of the hardest working like most extreme people ever and it wind up you know taking a a very the second half of the book is pretty crazy where you have this guy that like essentially gets everything that he thought he wanted and try almost kills himself and like what happened there? Why is he doing that? And then how did he

he was 34 when that's happening. He's almost 80 now. Oh, he looks phenomenal, by the way. It's like, what happened there? And how did he actually get what he he mistake he was mistaken on what he thought he wanted once he got what he wanted? It's not what he wanted. He realized what he actually wanted

was a sports car,

but he was No, but he was in but he was incapable of getting that and then he figured out a way. I think the the episode title was like Bruce.

He thought he wanted a GT3 RS, but he really wanted a Renport. [laughter]

Is that the one that you said I should drive? I always tell you to get the most insane cars,

but this is but this is the point. There's

so so funny. Uh David, uh I you you were

you you were like, "Oh, if I wanted a if I like wanted to buy a Ferrari, it would be this one." It was a 812 comp [laughter]

for like a just a car to keep in California. And I was like, that's so you to just pick like the most elite car.

His greatest cars, [laughter]

the spin-off. When we get any car reviews out,

hold on. There's a line in Bruce's

autobiography that I don't even think I put in the episode that I thought was interesting. He's like, "People don't come to my shows to learn something new." They come to be reminded about what they already know is true.

Oo, that is great. I love that. Wow.

And I think if you look at, again, I think of founders as like church for entrepreneurs. I think a lot of that like dude,

people don't think about like what they do that like the the rhythm and the repetition as like that. That's very interesting.

Yeah. So I do think I think again my natural instincts is fewer deeper. So it's like I talk to the same people over and over again. I don't like there's another line in in the autobiography. He's like uh I'm fairly insular by nature. I don't let new people into my life casually. I feel the exact same way.

And so I I do feel the best the best things in life all of them are come from compounding whether it's relationships, money,

knowledge, everything comes from compounding. So my instinct to just go and have the same conversations with, you know, the fewer deeper people that I actually trust and then you meet remarkable people and you add very slowly. Uh

yeah, I think about that the opportunity cost of having a a dinner with somebody that we've never met versus just hanging out and having my favorite conversation, which is the same one we always have.

Um the the other thing about I would say the difference like the quote you just gave around going to a show to remember what you already know. think about when I discovered founders, one of the most powerful things was learning that certain elements of myself were okay. Like I'm not the most organized person, right? And so to hear that other people that have gone on to do great things, like some of them are hyper organized, like you know, like incredibly dialed and others are just like chaotic and it's actually learning like what's actually okay is I feel like extremely powerful. We we are listen we may be like a small percentage of the overall human population but we are not unique. There have been people that have our same experiences think the same way that we are have our same natural intelligence talent everything else. And it's just like it's foolish not to to to utilize like their experience and knowledge for your own benefit on how to build a life not a [ __ ] business. A life. That was one of the craziest things realizations that Bruce Springsteen has in this in this episode where he's like, I thought I was building like work. I want to be a rockstar. I want to do all this other stuff. He's just like, I got that and I have a shitty life. How do I fix my life? And for him to go through that was, you know, a pretty intense um like experience. And I think that's why and then his dad, I don't want to talk too much about this, but like, you know, he had one of the worst dads that you could possibly have. His dad was a misenthrope, had no friends, uh, alcoholic, beat the [ __ ] out of Bruce. I think he said in the his entire childhood, his dad said less than a thousand words to him.

Wow.

And then later on he gets diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. And the amount of messages there was just like the part about his dad is like that hits way too close to home. It's exact like why? Because there's people out there that have had that same experience too.

Yeah. What is your favorite book that is not a biography?

Really hard, right?

Favorite book that's not a biography.

So, so examples would be like, you know, 1929 doesn't really have a breakneck by Dan Wang. We we

I'm not reading anything new.

No, I I know. I'm just giving examples like I'm just looking through like what I've what I've read recently and there's a lot of books that um are that that that you would I would imagine that it would be very hard to make a founders episode about a you know I mean certainly a work of fiction.

No I I think I can make a great founders episode about any book that I really enjoyed like I did last year I did Heruki Mirami's um what I think about when I think about running.

Oh okay.

And I remember I was in Malibu. This is why I spend so much time out here cuz I really do believe I do my best work out here. There is something very very special about this place.

Um, and

about Hollywood or Malibu?

No, not

Malibu. [laughter] Um, Hollywood, I come cuz I love you guys. I was whipping through the mountains just now, by the way.

I was like, I got to slow down. That's not a good idea. Um, so I start reading that. Um, I got this idea from Elon and he's like, you know, he wants to read more books and he realizes like carrying books with him is difficult. So sometimes he would just read entire books on the Kindle app on his iPhone.

And I I started reading, I forgot even how I discovered this. I because I didn't know who who Ricky Makami was before this. Started reading it and I think I read the whole entire book on my phone in like a day and a half

and then I was like this isn't really a founders episode. This is kind of weird. And I'm like no the fact that you couldn't put this down means that it is a founders episode. You are going to make an episode about it. And then the response because you're so intentionally interested and you can transfer your interest to you know podcasting is straight energy transmission for some of us.

Uh you were able to transfer that enthusiasm, that passion for this guy's ideas and and life uh to the audience. So, I think I can make it on any book that I'm intensely interested in. Uh, like I've been rereading Freedom's Forge,

right? I mean, I could make the episode on just Bill Nudson.

Yeah, Bill Nen.

But I think telling the whole story of, you know, the fact that in in the 1940s, the United States,

they took what was this this hugely sophisticated manufacturing base that was just applied to consumer products and on a dime turned it and started building the you know, producing the most war material than any other country in the world. like how they did that is a very fascinating story. But to answer your question, uh favorite book that is not

That's so interesting because I I would never put Freedom's Forge in the pipeline of founders episodes and yet I would 100% listen to a founders episode on Freedom Forge, which is like unmet demand or unknown demand. I don't want to talk too much about

podcasting because you know like I I will not shut up about this but like I think one of the most important parts of like if you're going to do this for a long term long term and like this is another thing that Bruce Queen singing I think was very smart he noticed he just like observed his industry he's like this industry is very transient there's a person that has a hit song maybe a hit album maybe two hit albums but like then they they either

get on drugs they die I think the what is it like the 27 club all these young um musicians die and he's like I was built for durability and longevity and so he worked backwards from like what are these people doing

and how do I just avoid it's very mungeresque Charlie Mongeresque invert always invert

and so with with podcasting I think about that a lot I can't say who this was and Rob I shouldn't even say this Rob put me across from like a I would consider him like a legacy podcaster and he did this at dinner I think he did this on purpose because he knows like what's going to happen and I just start asking him questions about like his show and like how and he came up in podcasting when like it could be your second, third, fourth, fifth thing that you were doing which is like that those days are done and I remember I didn't even eat that night I don't think I was like pounding my chopsticks on the table because his answers are like that you're not going to make it man like you're already dead like this isn't going to work. So, uh, the the the point I'm being here is like if you're going to do this long term, I think you have to be like show the audience who you truly are and therefore they will over time I think people came to founders because it was the books and the biographies and over time they're just like whatever this guy thinks is interesting to read I just want to hear like his insight or his takeaways from that. You guys are doing a good job with all the personality you have. You're [ __ ] dressed as an elf right now. like you have this giant, you know, horse behind like the the million little things that you guys do. Even now, I was here probably a month ago and like even the stuff you have hanging up on your walls, I'm like, "Oh, they're just becoming more and more natural and authentic to to who they are." So, um, I want to answer your question, Lessons of History, Will and Ariel Durant, it's not technically a biography. I would say it's a 100page biography of the human species. And because I think if you have one skill set that's going to help you throughout your life is like really understanding that history doesn't repeat, human nature does and you really should study how humans humans react in very predictable ways when they're exposed to specific stimuli.

And I think understanding that

is is one of the most useful like tools you can have as you go through life.

That's fascinating. What what patterns do you see in the founders that have appeared on founders and the news show in terms of how they landed on uh the thing that defined their life and their work? Someone uh V in the chat says, "How does one find their purpose obsession?" But I feel like it's very very different across uh but I'm curious if you see any patterns. Somebody came up to me at that party, that Peter Thiel's party we were all together at a few days ago, and they asked me that question. They're like, "Uh, I forgot the exact way this guy said it, but it was just like, you know, it's obvious that you found your thing, like, and like how do I find my thing?" And the the story I told him was just like,

obviously it's internal, like no one can answer that question. I I gave that story from uh Mozart where, you know, this 21-year-old kid comes up to Mozart's like, "How do I write a symphony?" And Mozart's like, "You're too young." And Mozart's like, and the guy goes, "You were writing symphonies uh younger than I am now." And he's like, "Yeah, but I wasn't going around asking people how to do it." And I just think like all you have to do is like just look how you spend your time. Actions express priority. Like actions express priority. You I I don't give a [ __ ] what you say. Just like I see how you spend your time and you I will know what is actually important to you. And so if you're looking for that thing, you know, just like where are you naturally drawn to? Like this morning I spent like six I don't know. But but at the same time when you were when you were I I feel like there needs to be an openness to

like an openness to not like you can't just if you're trying to find your life's work. It's not the something you can just decide I I'm I'm going to find my life's work this week. I'm going to when you were 20 it's not like you were like I'm going to be a

Not everyone can be a pro basketball player their entire life. And people but more more specifically like when you were 20 it's not like you were thinking well when I'm in my 40s I want to have a business podcast.

So what I would say if that kid is 20 find out how old this guy is in the chat. I would say read Paul Graham's how to do great work that essay. I think it's 34 episode 314 of founders. Can you check for me real quick?

Um and like

it's going to one shot it again.

It might not. Um like I think

oneshoted Paul Graham how to do great work. So

so hold on real quick. And I think it came down to like you're he's just like how to do great. You're just following what you're intensely curious about.

And so like like this morning uh I woke up and essentially I just like read for I don't know four or five straight hours

and then I was like oh [ __ ] I forgot I have to go to TPN today and that's why I was driving so fast. And like no one told me like no one's like David you should read for self-develop development. It's just like I like reading. I feel good when I read. It's way better than looking at my goddamn phone. It's outside of like spending time with people I love, like there there's not another activity I like to do. I would put like our relationships, spending time with people I truly care about above that, but in terms of like if I'm by myself, like there's not another thing that I'd rather want to do. Um, and that's just me listening to my curiosity.

Yeah.

I'm going to go ahead.

No, no, no. I was just uh Yeah. Yeah. You continue.

Uh, if you could interview anyone uh that is dead, who would it be? Was there was there any like is there anyone you've studied that you feel like there's this open question

where no no no text captured it or no interview that they did.

Yeah. It's like particularly lost.

I mean that that has got to be the case. I I've had um I had a weird experience last week. Uh and weird in a great way.

A ghost [laughter] of Rockefeller. Ghost of D.

So yeah, the answer would probably be I mean the simplest thing would be like Rockefeller, maybe Steve Jobs, maybe Sam Murray because Sam Murray is just like, you know, such a savage. And I think I have definitely like a wild side to me that um you you know Lulu.

Yeah.

Like she's she's constantly like you cannot travel anywhere without a crisis comms person next to you. Like you're going to get yourself in a lot of trouble. And so I think there's like a a wildness of Sam Murray that that's very attracted to me if I'm being honest about this. Um, but I I in terms of like it does not come across in the text. So what I'm trying to do is like obviously with the new show I want to be differentiated, right? I wouldn't be doing it, you know, if if just to be the same as anybody else. Like I find being the same as anybody else disgusting. It makes me want to vomit. And um so I I'm working on some people that like have literally never done podcast before.

Yeah.

And I skew to like older killers. Like

I'm not interested in the in the in general. I do try to spend time like I do feel I'm in like the middle child where like you get access to all these crazy people have done things for decades and I'm really successful and they're willing to like spend a lot of time with you most of them listen to the podcast and then I get a lot of information out of these relationships and conversations these dinners and then you know every once in a while identify like a younger founder maybe to spend time with that if you think you can help them you should but in general I skew way older way like you know somebody that can actually point to a body of work to prove that they are actually like somebody you want to spend time with. And I had um I spent time with a 71-year-old guy last week in New York and he sold his company for $60 billion recently. and uh he's never done a podcast and I did an episode on his uh episode of Founders on him and his family and the reason he wanted to meet me and the reason that he's now going to do the new show and he trusts me is because there's only one book written about this and he listened to the podcast. He couldn't believe the insights that were in it. He asked his son, asked David who he interviewed in the family to get this information and uh the answer was nobody. I read the book and then I tied it together because like you're the same person that there's been a hundred of you, 200, a thousand of you

for the past few hundred years. Like we're not I know we like to feel we're special like we are there's just we're not as unique as we think we are.

Um and so I don't think

you know obviously if you can have conversations with these people you you should be you should do that. One of the reasons that is because like in an hour, we talked for an hour. The amount of information that guy transferred to me in an hour would be literally imp. You could give a 25year-old founder, 30-year-old founder weeks and he just could not convey that much knowledge and information that this guy was able to do in an hour. Um, so yeah, if you can have conversations with him, you should. But I don't feel like I'm ever like missing out. Like the text wasn't enough.

Well, it's been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much.

Says more swearing, please. Chad's fans of it. Well, uh, that concludes this episode. Thanks for having me again, guys. We will be retired, John. Back at 11. No, I do have to go. I have to go. Sorry. But, uh, I mean, you two could hang out here if you want.

This has been a great show. We're in the fourth hour. We're We're almost

got I got

halfway through the fourth hour. Uh, and we'll be back tomorrow. Yeah,

we got two more. Every every day this week has felt like Friday.

Thank you.

But, uh, thank you for hanging out with us. Thank you for being here. Of course,

Apple and add David Senra by David Senra to your podcast player.

Thank you. [applause]

Thank you, folks. See you tomorrow. Goodbye.