Vincenzo Landino on F1's US boom: team valuations, Drive to Survive's real impact, and tech capital flooding motorsport

for those who take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries, and more with damn great customer service. We have Venenzo Landino in the TV Ultra Dome. Welcome to the show. How are you doing?

There he is.

Thanks for having me. I listen to this conversation and I'm like, do I have the written?

You look fantastic. So you you you're one of the people that's actually been doing this. You've been look maxing for years clearly.

Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know I was doing it, but Okay.

Yeah.

I do agree with you though, John. There is something about looking a little older so that people take you seriously cuz

But you you just graduated high school. You look about like 1920. Is that correct?

Uh yeah, actually I turned 21 yesterday.

Congratulations. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah, you look very young. Anyway, uh for those who don't know you, please introduce yourself. We'd love to get the introduction for everyone.

Yeah. B Chenlandino. I run um Business of Speed. So, a podcast, newsletter, and a consultancy for brands that want to get into uh motorsport or businesses of speed actually. So, it's more than just motorsport, but

we call it businesses of speed. So, mostly racing.

That's a good brand. I like that. Fantastic. How did you get into this? You know, it's uh to keep it short, I was I was a motorsport fan for a long time. And Formula 1

years and years ago, like when I started watching it back in the early 90s,

like right after Drive to Survive happened, you got into it?

Right after Drive to Survive.

Yeah. Yeah. That that's when you got into it, I'm sure.

Just Yeah. I just jumped in right then and there. Yeah.

Early early to the sport. Really? Yeah.

Real early on. Which actually is really funny because now people that came in maybe two years before

Yeah. The drive to survive boom are considered like

old old heads

in watching motorsports. Yeah, hunks. Exactly.

Yeah.

But uh no, back or you know,

like I said, 35ish years ago,

Yeah.

there was nobody watching it in the United States and

being of Italian uh heritage and and whatnot. I had a lot of motorsport fans in my family and we used to watch it. We used to go carting. We used to, you know, go to racetracks all the time. As I got older, I saw there was opportunity that not many people are talking about the business side or at least the behind the scenes aspect of of uh in that case Formula in this case Formula 1. But everyone wanted to talk about how hot the drivers were and you know

the engineering aspect was another you know element or even just handicapping who's going to win like the actual the actual results of the sport.

Actual results. Yeah. As opposed to the business everywhere.

Yeah. It's everywhere.

Exactly. Exactly.

Amazing. What was the first what was the first piece of content? What was the first initial like go to market with building content in the category?

Uh I don't even really It was probably It was Twitter for sure. Um and I would I mean I was just tweeting about different things, you know, deals that were coming through and

um whenever you could get any information about race fees or whatever, you know, a a race track was paying for to host an event, you're like, "Okay, this is interesting." And you start building a following. People thinking like, "Wow, that's ridiculous." Wow, that's crazy. Didn't had no idea what went into it. And then

just kind of snowballed into what it is now, which has become

still building it, but really an opportunity for me to to keep a tab on the the business behind it.

Yeah. Uh, can you give us a broad view into the health and state of motorsport, the the business of of motorsports in America? Because a lot of a lot of people in tech are just

not that not that into uh automotive racing broadly. Maybe they watch F1 here and there. Maybe they go to an event, you know, through for, you know, with with some SAS company

uh that they're involved with. But uh to maybe zoom out for a second and then I want to get into a bunch of the subcategories.

I'll say anecdotally, let's just this is something I heard in Las Vegas just a couple months ago. Um tech company in San Francisco CEO wanted this is literally the conversation I heard. Wants to get involved in Formula 1 somehow.

Knows nothing about motorsport. Knows nothing about racing. just knew that it was somewhere where there was attention and he wanted to get his brand in front of it. And so hearing conversations like that happening and partnerships and commercial deals happening just because they think it's cool again from someone who's been who's seen the trajectory over decades, not just like a few years. That's fascinating to me. Still fascinating to me that that level of interest is there. Um but that's not the overall health. I mean, Formula 1 is definitely healthier than than most. Um, in the United States, you still have series like NASCAR that dominate, at least in viewership, but there's issues there as well. Uh, Indie Car, great racing, but still trying to work out who they want to be. And so there's

there's definity in F1 in America actually hurt indie indie car because it feels like some potential overlap or is it kind of a rising tide lifts all boats? I think it's actually so I think it is there is a level an aspect of rising tide has raised all boats but it's also hardened the die hards like they are the indie car dieards I feel like have come out more now

um because they're like we don't want to be run over taken over by this European thing this formula one which is the actual conversations that happen I mean it's it's kind of funny but

um so Indie Cars has seen it but what

no one has been able to figure out that Formula 1 did was the content aspect. Drive to Survive was one of many, many things that they've done behind the scenes, right? ESPN didn't get enough credit for the growth. You know, everyone said, "Oh, Netflix Drive to Survive effect, all of that." I mean, including myself at one point, I it was like, "Wow, this Netflix thing is really this is what's causing all of this." But it wasn't. ESPN did put a lot into it. and and so um I would say that you have seen a lot of rising tide but no one's figured out the content aspect it's for whatever reason it's like not for whatever reason I know you know we know what the reasons are formula 1 is just the attractive it's the flavor of the day month year right now maybe the next couple years but it's it's sexy right it's European so if you want an audience it's global let's not say it's not just European it's global

yeah it's a travel in addition to being a race, in addition to being a reality TV show, in addition to being a dating show, it it sort of scratches every itch. So, a household can sit down and everyone in the

family the business I always appreciated the the business side, seeing how the owners were kind of processing uh being in being in that uh

understanding that dynamic where you have this like desperation to win. you badly want to win and then every single decision that you're making throughout a season is like

okay how much like techn like you know

how much do I want how badly do you want to win how much do you want to actually spend how much do you like how how

how much are you willing to personally invest so that happening at the owner level and and the athlete level

and at one point it was you know you it was whoever could just keep spending right now we have the the the the salary or not salary cap the spend cap And the spend cap has created more competition. You can't spend over 140ish million. It's going to go up a little bit more, but you can't spend over that amount of money. And so that's caused better competition. Everyone has to kind of get to a point. But at one at one point in Formula's history, it was just you spend spend spend. There were way more teams on the grid, way more drivers. You know, we actually had on our podcast um Mark Blendell who was a driver from the late 80s, early 90s. He drove with Senna and some of the other greats and he was saying, you know, it was like we had to qualify to qualify. You don't have that now. You've got now there's going to be 22 drivers on the grid. They all will start.

Yep.

Come Sunday. That didn't happen, you know, 25 years ago, 30 years ago. It was you had to qualify just to get onto the grid. And there was plenty because there was so many cars that were just like they would allow anybody that could come up with a car would be on the grid and

it couldn't compete. It wasn't reliable, whatever it was or they'd be so slow that obviously wouldn't put them on the grid to qualify. And so all of that has led to the popularity, but also the financial health of it. Look at the valuations. Um,

yeah. I wanted to get your read on like team valuations because obviously the people that were like just pure enthusiasts in it for the love of the game have benefited to some degree

uh just based on the appreciation and the value of the teams. There's so much more attention. They can build uh they can bring in a lot uh more sponsorship. Uh we were at the Vegas event and just walking around and seeing how the different Yeah, it felt like being at a tech conference. you every team has a major tech company on it now or yeah multiple multiple sometimes uh yeah valuations

uh but yeah valuations of teams uh George over at CrowdStrike uh we we work with Crowd Strike saw you know he recently uh uh bought into Mercedes in a big way after being a partner for a while but uh how do you how do you uh do you think that uh do you expect valuations to actually trade down at any point. Could we be at a at at somewhat of a local

top

top?

I think at some point we I it has to max out, right? Like some of the valuations seem almost insane to me. Mercedes just the team itself 6 billion is what it's right around McLaren 4 and a half. Ferrari is a little bit different. They've got this a global brand. They're a little over six and a half billion. Um, and even at the bottom of the the grid, you're still looking at 2 billion. I I remember Zack Brown, CEO of McLaren, had said, and I actually had a conversation with him in in Vegas, but he had said 2024, 2023, maybe it was at one point, all of the teams will be valued at a billion dollars. And PE, we all thought that was like, no way. This is like, are you kidding me? And here we are not even a full two years later and every team is has a valuation of roughly you know two billion. Of course there's private equity now uh investing. You've got some big you know bigger players that want to put money into these teams and so valuations just shoot up. I think

it it has to cap somewhere. I don't know where that cap is. I I have said 10 billion. I thought it was like absolute max. But I think I think even that might be ridiculous. But you know,

I know that if I say that now than in two years when

But the average So the average net new investor, are they really going into this expecting a return or do they want to be an owner of a Formula 1 team?

They want to be the owner of Formula 1. I mean, it

it's cool.

You can't put a price on cool. You can't put a price on being in the suite. Like you said, it's a tech conference. It's who's who. It's who can I be seen around. Look at all the celebrities that show up. Look at all the major, you know, tech companies or all the player, all the network. It's it's a level of networking you can't really put a price on. And that's what you're buying into. You're buying into the opportunity

to entertain your clients, entertain your friends, entertain other executives to be seen as, well, I'm the CEO or I'm the founder, whatever it is. I'm the boss.

There's there's there's so many levels to it. you know, our friends at at Public who we went to Vegas with are uh they're a SP, you know, multi-year sponsor of Aston Martin, but then the level beyond that is like, yeah, actually, you know, buying into the team and becoming a

Yeah, I I noticed uh over the holiday like the the the global elite were in St. Barts and they all all pulled up their yachts. And when you read the articles of like whose yacht is there and and who they are, it'll say the person's name and then like probably half of these people, they're described as like owner of the, you know, Pistons or over of owner of the Red Sox, owner of some sports team. And you always look them up and it's like they didn't make their money starting that sports team. They started some boring oil and gas company or software company or something. But as soon as you own, it's like writing a book. As soon as you own a sports team, that's what you're known for forever. And like you're just the Dallas Mavericks guy.

So it goes back to you guys were talking about um Steve Jobs earlier. We don't have and how they're right now we don't have somebody that is like Steve Jobs for AI and to just like

snap a finger, tell a story. It it's the story, right? And I don't know if that's what you were looking to say at one point, but um it's a story. It's it's a it's an instant story. you go and sponsor Williams or you go and Atlassian, you go partner up with Williams. Now you're going to be part of their comeback because William Williams the team is coming back and they are more financially healthy. They've got great investment now. Uh great team, great leaders in place.

Well, Atlassian is going to be right behind, you know, they are right there. They builtin story.

People that didn't know them outside of Australia, which or maybe even like the U whatever,

they'll know

globally instant global recognition, right? You can't buy that anywhere. You know, you can't buy that story, that level of story. There's no price that you can put on that. And so I think that's what we're, you know, we see with Formula 1 specifically. What is the dynamic of So, so Audi's joining the grid this year, how how does that work? Is it is the number of teams going to effectively be fixed forever? Like part of the reasons why NBA and NFL teams are are valuable is because you effectively have a monopoly, right? We're not creating more teams. So you don't have new uh competition and and pricing pressure and things like that. How did that dynamic how do you actually they're taking over from another team? Like break down that dynamic and will we see more? Could we see a future where there's 30 cars on the grid?

So Saber was the team that Audi bought to get into. So they they took a spot, right? And so that m for the I'm trying to think of how many years but let's say the at least the past decade maybe 15 years you've had a pretty fixed number of teams on the grid 10. Cadillac is entering the grid as team 11

and that is was a big big deal in the in the charter from 2022 the uh dilution fee was 200 or 300 million and because no one thought

and that's a fee that goes to all the teams effectively

that's a fee that goes to all the teams it's split up so everybody gets like 10

yeah 10 million 10 million

which is which is nothing in inre that would have to be updated And I imagine

it and it did it got updated and when this was there. So the big issue that came up was when they were looking for team 11 Cadillac was uh came in. It was Andredy that was trying to put in their offer. Michael Andred uh Mario Andredy,

his son Michael um and a group was trying to buy in.

There was politics behind the scenes that were going on. They they had the money. They had all the the things together ducks in a row. uh they didn't some people don't like them and so they got kind of pushed out. Now we have Cadillac that entered but at the time they came to the table with their $300 million dilution fee and they had facilities and all the things that F1 wanted to see.

Well, they quickly said, "Wait a minute, 300 million is not enough money. Like we this is this is crazy. The sport has completely ballooned in valuations and how much revenue.

We we need to do something different." So I think it ended up around 600 million. So double

just as just to enter just to say now that's not to say that you you're done at 600 million you need to have facilities you need to invest in in in people so you you're all in way over a billion dollars.

Wow.

That's the price just to say like yeah we'll entertain you.

Yeah.

Um so six you know $600 million. So you're not going to have anybody just come in and say I want a I want a team because you need to have

is there is there a hard cap at all in the charter? Obviously, you could update

the charger says 12 is the max right now.

That's what the chat was saying, too.

How does uh the max have the manufacturers, how much do they try to track or how much do they worry about how on grid or ontrack performance impacts car sales? I had a Ferrari at one point and uh you know, anytime I'm watching F1 and I see Ferrari with uh technical difficulties, I'm like, "Yeah, big surprise." Cuz I had a lot of I had a lot of those things, right?

Disconnected, but it I don't know. It's just uh like just

so there's some concern of like if we if we you know have a team and we're and we're just terrible

uh who Yeah. Why why is somebody going to want to go and and spend 400 500 you know or more on on one of these cars?

Yeah. I So I I remember Lawrence Stroll in 2020 what year are we in? 26. about 3 four years ago, he made a comment that because Aston Martin had the safety car,

uh they actually split safety car duties with Mercedes,

but because they had one safety car, he estimated about $80 million just from having the safety car in sales. Um, so I think it was the Vantage and they had like the Vantage F1 edition, sold about 300 units, whatever, $200,000 a piece, whatever they were, and they sold out pretty instantly because it was a car on the grid. Uh, Mercedes has really pushed the AMG badge a lot over the past, I'd say five to seven years

while destroying what made AMG great in the first place.

And and I had, you know, I had an AMG, loved it. Uh, it was great until I started seeing everybody with an AMG. I'm like, well, AMG doesn't even mean anything anymore. It's just kind of like it's the standard car. They don't even you don't see a regular Mercedes. Everyone's got an AMG at this point. But that was

they're going to make a V a V4 AMG.

Well, not anymore. So,

no, I know. They are they are starting to they got the

Was it the C43 was the one that people really didn't like? Yeah.

I mean, for what? It was kind of pointless. I mean, I I had Mine was an eight and it was the last eight. 2019 and and I you know people it was very desirable to aftermarket folks because because of that. But

but yeah, even when I when I think about Aston, if if Aston can win a championship,

I do think that that could be very beneficial for the brand in America. McLaren McLaren, I'm sure I'm sure they they're they're going to benefit in some way. But Aston, I feel like really like I mean that dynamic is interesting because you have kind of the same owners in both the Formula 1 team and and the and the actual manufacturer which are different entities. And so there's real incentive to like, hey, let's actually win a championship because uh they make some of the most beautiful cars in the entire world, but they're just not as desirable as the Ferrari at the same price point. Well, Ferrari is also I mean what Ferrari does to buy a any Ferrari is just it's like it's the luxury playbook. You know, you can't buy the one you want until you buy 10 others and then maybe we'll let you buy. I mean, it's just a scarcity thing. But I'll say with Aston Martin and McLaren specifically, they're still I would say they're booied by Mercedes doing well because they're they're AMG power plants. So

that makes that makes a difference especially to the level of enthusiasts or the the the collectors that are buying these cars. But they are beautiful and they're gorgeous. It there is a direct correlation and you will hear conver have conversations with folks within the teams that are are absolutely tracking that kind of thing. It's what is the list? I don't I don't know the number, you know, for every car maker, but um it's, you know, Red Bull doesn't make a car, right? So, they've got nothing to worry about. Williams doesn't make a car.

What about the RB7? They they made two of those.

Well, all right. All right. All right. All right. All right. To be fair, to be fair. Yes. Yes. Yes, they I just meant like like a regular car.

That thing does look incredible.

What's happening in in sim racing uh broadly? Like how is the I mean do you look at sim racing as its own kind of subindustry?

Is there

I don't I I mean so I don't track it as much or I'm not paying as much attention. I know that um it is there's a a higher interest in sim racing because most people realize well it's too expensive to go get a track day. It's too expensive to um try and even go racing, right? To be to go from carding to you to the different series levels and then to get to F1. It's it's imp almost impossible, right? And you need

Yeah. People were running the numbers on like how much Lando's dad had spent to get him actually in the game and it was like they clocked it at like $40 million over the career.

Yeah.

Uh just either you have a very rich

Yeah. rich parent or a sponsor, you know.

But I think you need both. You need both, right? Or you don't need both, but like it helps to have both. It's not just one or the other.

It helps. I mean, you It's a different lifestyle, right? So, it's a lifestyle that is you're traveling. You're often times, unless you're already in Europe, you are likely going to Europe. We had Connor Dailyaly on our podcast, uh, Indie Car Driver, and actually that episode comes out in a couple weeks. But he did say to us in the conversation that, you know, he had to go to Europe to race an open wheel because that's where it was like he couldn't do it here. There was no ladder. The ladder system wasn't robust enough to get where he wanted to go. That takes dollars right now. His dad raced in Formula 1.

But could I do it? Could you guys I don't know. Would we be able to start? Would my kids be able to start?

Yeah.

It's it's it's just it. So that's where sim racing comes in. And sim racing is made more popular because the current batch of drivers are very tapped into the sim racing world.

Max Versstappen races sim cars in between races between qualifying and the actual race the next day. He's like, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna go race on the sim and he takes part in competitive, you know, racing. Um, Lando races. Yeah. Charles, they all they all they all race and most of them are racing pretty competitively on sim. So, that's also made it more popular. The the

allure of being able to maybe race with Max for Orlando North or get, you know, boot up online and play that. Those that's all increased tremendously. Um, I'd have to actually look at the numbers. I want to see if they're

What about the What about the the health of individual tracks around the US? We're going to uh we're going to uh doing a track day out at Willow Springs later this month and I think they changed ownership recently.

Uh and uh but but yeah, how how are these doing as businesses? Are they the kind of things where it's like fun to own but actually just a terrible uh business or is anybody actually doing really well?

It's a tough business. Is anyone doing really well? It's the ones that are, you know, are backed by dollars that have big races at them. It's It's hard to maintain

a pure enthusiast track. You're saying?

Yeah.

A pure enthusiast track. Yeah. You You really have to uh be like a Kota right now to be immensely successful. Now, that's smaller regional tracks are still hosting, you know, plenty of racing, but to say they're extremely healthy is tough. Also, there's a lot of folks that think, "Oh, we want F1 to come race at our track, or we want F1 to come to Road America, F1 to come." It's like, no, you don't because it's a whole spectacle to come build this. And often times, it destroys what makes your track unique or appealing or, you know, charming. So, there's a lot of And those are conversations I'm always tracking. you know, how does

I have a I have a kind of a a not quite baked thesis, but an idea that the track business might actually become a great business in the future if it becomes effectively illegal to drive cars on the road just via autonomous vehicles where

guys and girls are not going to like suddenly if at some point it's like humans can no longer drive. It's just too dangerous. Like you can imagine that scenario happening in the next 10, 20 years and people are still going to want to drive. So they're going to take their cars to tracks and that you could see a resurgence of enthusiasts driving because it's just made illegal on normal roads.

Yeah. I mean that's actually I that's fantastic. I didn't even think about the autonomous driving aspect of that and how if people can't drive, people that like us that like you know have gotten a taste of driving, we know what it's like. Also, driving on a track, driving your car on on the road versus the track is just it's completely it's incomparable.

Yeah.

Totally different. Totally different. I mean, you

you know, you wonder sometimes how people get their licenses, but you're like, I'm not going to drive.

Yeah.

I'm not going to drive the way I want to drive on a track on on, you know, the I95 over here. Like, it's just not going to tragedy recently. The um was it the Activision

founder of Call of Duty?

Founder of Call of Duty was driving. I've driven Angelus Crest a bunch. I I had uh the scariest moment of my life in a car on Anggeles Crest uh at around 6:00 a.m. probably 5 years ago uh driving a 997 that I had and uh I yeah it uh

you can imagine at some point that I mean that what a lot of people do at a is already effectively illegal, right? They're driving 30 40 50 mile, you know, 60 70 miles above the speed limit. uh tailing each other very closely. It is like reckless driving.

Uh but uh yeah, but yeah, that wouldn't if that same situation had happened on a track like everybody would have been fine.

Yeah, for sure. Usually. Um walk me through uh a conversation real quick. Just

No, I just want to add one last thing to that. There's a lot of the um you know, private membersonly

Yeah.

clubs coming up now at racetracks for enthusiasts.

Yeah. I think that's an opportunity for racetracks to become maybe a little more popular or increase their health because they can offer and Kota's doing it right. They're offering luxury condos and garages and a whole club membership or a membership. So, I I think that's something that can happen more.

Can you take me through uh what a successful F1 track build looks like? Uh what's the how is how is Vegas looking? We went and they were very much bragging that uh it was a permanent facility. It's remarkable. feels like it's working, but how does this actually work? Who's paying? And how is it in Vegas?

I mean, you've got you've got some public money pump, public funds needed.

Um, and of course, there's plenty of complainers about that non-stop. Just open up open up Twitter and you'll see people complaining, locals complaining. Um, the the permanent facility in Vegas is actually a new thing. So I there's really not much to compare it to because street tracks don't usually have anything permanent. Like you go to Monaco, there's they're they're putting that together months ahead of time.

Mhm.

Um so that for Vegas is pretty unique. They are filling it with the Grand Prix Plaza while it's not race. Uh I see they I think they cut off around September October and so then it becomes a business with the the Grand Prix Plaza. They have the F1 um experience. It's kind of almost like a museum. There's simulators. There's a restaurant. So, they're they're trying to keep people tied to the F1 brand all year long. That's unique to Vegas. In terms of the the layout of the track and whatnot, I mean, the build of the track, the permanent pieces of it, I believe they are trying to add some permanent um like lighting fixtures so that those don't have to go up every single time. But there, I mean, you guys were there so you saw it. I mean, there's so much of it that has to go up in real time because you can't close down

the strip all year round. You can't have um

um what is it? You know, you can't have all the things they have up around the track, the stands. There's there's not even really stands. Everything's like luxury over there. So, it's you're either in a suite or you're not.

Um

so, yeah, all of that has to go out in real time. you know, when you have um when you have a permanent facility like a Kota or even not Miami is kind of half and half, but when you have a permanent facility like Kota, you know, you it's obviously there, those are more expensive to maintain overall. Um because you have to keep them occupied and you have to do something in them year round after that one race.

Vegas, you know, you kind of take the good and the bad. You have to take the locals complaining and you have to do the shutdowns and all that. I mean, you guys were there. So, you remember how like they had to shut down from like Wednesday at 2 o'clock

basically from 2 to midnight every day after that was was closed down. I mean, those are things they have to deal with. And I think that's just unique. Las Vegas is really really unique. It's also new to Las Vegas residents, whereas you take like a Monaco that's been around since the 20s,

those folks are they're used to it. It's part of the identity. And that's that's where I think there's

also I mean the difference in Monaco too is like if you're a resident and you and you own or rent a like a condo or an apartment and then F1 comes to town, it's super exciting. But if you're a Vegas resident and this track springs up and everything gets more expensive and you're kind of like boxed out, it's not as much it's and you're not necessarily an F1 fan. It just becomes much more of an annoyance than like a celebration of the city. Mhm.

And I think that's where the like we still haven't gotten peak saturation, right? It's not people aren't excited about it just because like it's not ingrained in their identity. Whereas you go to, you know, you go to Europe and they are have more of a motorsport culture or at least F1, let's just say F1 where that culture is understood. So track tracks are very interesting. They want more street circuits. There are more street circuits coming.

Uh Madrid is being added this year. So that'll be interesting to see how that build goes. We actually talked to

Why do they want more uh street circuits? I feel like an American Nurburg would be incredible. I would love an American Nurburg ring maybe in like uh Idaho or something going through the forest.

I don't dis I don't disagree with you. The reason they want more is because it is actually more appealing and more sexy to say

sure,

hey, come to our city. Come to Madrid and we can sell Madrid. So

and I mean Vegas, everyone goes to the nightclubs. There's like a huge economic impact. the hotels. Whereas if you're out in the in the sticks, yeah, you might be in some cheap hotel, but you're not going to go spend a ton of money.

Spa in Belgium is arguably every driver we've talked to, every any motorsport enthusiast says spa is the best track to drive, to race at. It's awesome. But you know where a spa is? In the middle of the Ardan Forest.

Yeah, it's awesome.

Like it's it's not right. It's cool if you're really into motorsport, but if you're trying to sell F1 or you're trying to sell this brand as this is appealing to sponsors and it's sexy and well, I don't I don't I would rather do it in I don't know, Brussels or something like that.

Yeah, because you're basically holding a you're holding a conference for your company. A lot of the sponsors will invite key clients and partners to come with them. And if you're out in the forest, it's a little bit different.

And the playbook has been written.

Yeah.

So like it's it's become a festival. It's, you know, it is a festival

and that's what they want the new like

if you're going to pay $70 million to host a race.

You you need to recoup that. You can't recoup that by just having a race in the middle of nowhere. And that's why you're seeing a lot of these things happen with the smaller tracks in Europe. They can't afford it. They just don't have it.

That's funny.

Uh I uh next time you come on, I want to talk about the possibility of an AI driver at some point. I think imagine if imagine if Google bought a team and they had no human driver.

This is my new AGI test is I want a humanoid robot in a manual gearbox shifting with three pedals around the Nurburg ring in under seven minutes.

Now did you guys see the Abu Dhabi autonomous racing league?

Uh I I I saw it like briefly, but tell me

it's it's it's autonomous racing and it's teams of of engineers basically with no drivers in the car. It's clunky. I It's clunky. It's like, you know, oh cuz the cars I mean are they are driving by themselves but they they still have to process. So like

you have a car cut in front of you like

Yeah. What do you do about that?

Imagine a Well, imagine a Whimo and something jumps in front of it's going to stop, right? So it's kind of like the same thing happens with this race.

Um so it's kind of if you had a chance to look it up, the autonomous racing league and it was in Abu Dhabi. They're trying to make it a thing. I I I don't know about it's not there yet. I would love to see some uh the the track times, how they compare, and also all of the Oh, the blooper reel I'm sure is really funny. A

lot of there's a lot of blooper reels, I'm sure. For sure.

Anyway, we'd love to have you back.

So great to hang. Uh let's make it a regular thing. Uh and appreciate you uh giving us the full overview of everything.

Have a great day. We'll talk to you soon.

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