Scott Nolan drops a truth nuke: the U.S. must rebuild uranium enrichment capacity to power nuclear's AI-era renaissance

person. We have Scott Nolan from General Matter. [applause] Welcome.

How have you been? How was the holiday party? How was your New Year's? Is 2026 off to a good start?

It's been great. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me on.

Of course.

Just look look at the headlines, you know?

Yeah. It's it's long overdue, but I'm so glad we get to catch up. Um t take us back. We we we've we've talked many times, but um take us back to the process of of finding this category, finding this opportunity. I think most people will know that you were uh at Founders Fund as in an investing role for over a decade, I believe. Um but talk to me about the process deciding to You didn't hear it, but he just played the overnight success [laughter] sound quue. Um but talk to me about the process of actually finding an opportunity, picking this one and then making the move.

Yeah. And and for people who aren't familiar with the general matter with a

American nuclear fuel company

enriching fuel here in the US um using US tech. So

the whole background was you know finding it overnight took about a decade. Yeah.

And there was certainly no intention of of starting anything really. This was in response to a huge market need. Mhm.

So, like you said, you know, at Founders for a decade, meeting a wide range of advanced reactor companies.

Yeah.

All of them had the same message, which was we have no we have no fuel. We have no source of Halo.

Sure.

Um and we've got to depend on Russia and China for that for that fuel that we need. And so I said, why don't the US fuel companies make that fuel? And they said there aren't really any.

Oh, you say depending depending on Russia and China. Is it true that uh the Halo the the nuclear fuel that comes from Russia is they actually take it out of a missile that's nuclear does that happen or they take it out of a of a nuclear submarine or where are they getting it in Russia. Why do they have it? Why don't we why don't we?

Yeah. Not not a wives tale but you know they have their own enrichment capability in Russia. They do.

They do. Yep. They're actually the world leader in enrichment. More than half of world market cap, you know, capacity is in Russia. Uh you've got Europe number two and China quickly growing as number three. US used to be number one back in the 80s. We're about 85% of global enrichment. Today less than.1%. So we went from first place to basically last place.

And what what were the catalysts for that?

It was exactly what you're saying of the down blending

back from pre-Cold war. Obviously there was you know post the fall of the Berlin wall there was mutual disarmament goals

and there was trade and so it was called the the megat tons to megawatts program where the US worked with Russia to down blend weapons into fuel that could be run in reactors.

Got it. That was the start of it. And then with the fall of the Berlin wall, I think the US basically said, "Hey, free trade. Let's go get our fuel from uh other countries who do this very affordably and and consistently and maybe we don't need to have this outdated capability of gaseous diffusion which was running at a few sites in the US. So over time we basically outsourced it.

Other countries were better than us at it and we allowed that skill to atrophy.

Yeah. When you look at the Scurve of nuclear power growth, we went through this exponential period and then it basically flatlined for I don't know 40 50 years. Uh how much of that is due to Three-Mile Island, Chernobyl like fear-mongering? How much of it is due to just the oil and gas companies being elite and just compounding and compounding and they're just so big that they can hire all the best talent, do all the best lobbying? What are the different factors that go into the plateau that we've seen in nuclear power generation?

Yeah. On limiting nuclear power, I think everyone lists those things. People will also mention the regulator.

Yeah.

I think it's none of those things.

Interesting.

Yeah. So, if you actually look at the data, nuclear has been the safest

uh cleanest form of base load power. Yeah.

But it hasn't been the cheapest. M

and so you know that S-curve followed a period and maxing out the S-curve really was at a time where costs were just rising dramatically on nuclear builds.

Yeah.

They were run like huge construction projects.

Yeah.

So most of nuclear all the way through the '90s was classic lightwater reactors,

you know, billion10 billion projects over schedule run just like highway projects like other things that just were not done efficiently. The move you now see towards advanced reactors is all about changing that. So all the advanced reactors basically have um two goals. One is often increase safety. The other is uh decrease cost.

Glad they're care about safety. [laughter]

Yeah. Often passive safety. So not relying on active measures. Yeah. But essentially

and and the goal the goal here is like you have a private company who has somebody they have you know potential customers that will pay for power or even uh help them fund the capex and they're heavily incentivized to stay on schedule and deliver it at a cost or deliver effectively the system at a cost that uh whereas like a government you know funded project has maybe less of an incentive to actually hit uh cost uh you know stay within budget.

Yeah. I think the key dimension is that they want to be factory built. And so if you're factory built, okay, we can get these coming off an assembly line. We can have the parts made with extreme, you know, consistency and bring cost down over time and then those pieces can be deployed out to a site and installed and and turned online.

Yeah.

And that's what the, you know, the acronym SMR is small modular reactor where the small part is small enough to be built in a factory. So that's the whole point. Now if you go that small

how how is that is that plane size at the at the

think of like extremely wide load size so highway transportable

rad is shipping container sized one megawatt so replacement for a diesel generator usually. Exactly. And now people are talking about well what if we get a thousand of those together we get a gigawatt maybe we can power an AI data center. Is the AI boom and the AI narrative changing anything for you? Is there more maybe about your business but also just about uh regulatory openness, excitement about the category uh just getting real about a transition to a different fuel source?

Yeah, I think you've seen a few tailwinds

in the nuclear space. AI has certainly been a huge tailwind

and the hyperscalers have always wanted base load power and they want it to be clean.

Yep.

That really points you towards nuclear where the missing piece has been cost and so they're turning towards SMRs as a way of reducing the cost.

Sure. Whether it's one megawatt, a thousand of them together to make a gigawatt, or maybe it's 20 megawatts, people are coming up with different formats to solve the need in AI.

And there's even companies that are bringing old nuclear facilities back online just building, okay, I'm going to go get a Westinghouse, but that was not an option a while ago. And so, I mean, just this week, uh, didn't Meta partner with Oaklow to bring some nuclear power online? Uh, the timelines are depressing in AI world. I think about AGI next year and then you see that they are doing a deal that won't come online until 2032. Uh but at the same time better than than never. How are you thinking about timelines? I imagine that since this is a big step moving into this role you're thinking in decades or longer. How do you think about like when to hit certain milestones, how to grow the business, what you can do in a 12 to 18 month cycle.

Right. So for us we're online by end of decade. That is our goal. That's our line in the sand.

Late last year in August, we announced a lease with the DOE in Kentucky to reindustrialize a site that used to host enrichment. Okay.

In Paduka, Kentucky. That's right.

That's right. So, um, we are now breaking ground and and preparing that site to build on. Yeah.

That'll be online by end of decade. So, that's roughly our timeline.

That timeline is dictated by construction and by licensing. Okay. Basically those two things the scale of construction and the scale of actually bringing it online on day one

will be increased through this award that we received last week. So that's that's the main way it impacts us is it actually brings commercial scale domestic scale

satisfying all US needs forward a few years earlier. Yeah. I

are you are you a dependency or or going are you going to be a dependency for some of these other projects that are saying like okay we're going to build all of this infrastructure but ultimately we're going to need fuel otherwise the whole thing doesn't actually matter.

That's right. Yeah. So after the decade of meeting different reactor companies I realized none of them had a good source of fuel.

And if you take a step back fuel is upstream of everything. So if energy is upstream of all economic activity, fuel is upstream of energy. And if you can't make your own fuel, you can't do all the other things that you want to do. So within nuclear, there's this missing step of enrichment in the US. And so

to answer your question, yes, we think that enrichment is the key bottleneck for nuclear energy.

Yeah.

How on earth have you approached hiring? [laughter]

Like who's the oldest person on your team?

Uh oldest. Let's see. Oldest person, I'm not sure. I mean north of 50.

Okay. I was maybe there's some 90-year-old who's like I still

I was at Chernobyl. [laughter] Well, well, in in the industry, you will see this what's effectively a bathtub curve, which is a lot of young people that are very

nuclear and a lot of people that were in it at the very beginning when it was exciting and new and growing very rapidly.

And in the middle, you have enthusiasts, people who really believed in it even when no one else did. But the number of people seems to follow that curve. And so, we've had consultants on our team who are in their 80s.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what I was that's what I figured, right? which is like they're maybe not like sign me up for a new W2, but I'll be around the table and and help you guys think through how to actually do this.

On the young side, how where are you hiring from uh and how much retraining can you do? Can you take a great engineer and bring them up to speed on all the particulars of nuclear or do you want to go with someone who knows more about nuclear broadly and teach them something specific about refinement? like how how do you think about training and uh and and building like the next generation up?

Yeah. So, one one misconception of team composition is probably that it's all nuclear engineers. The reality of a enrichment facility or refining operation is that there's actually no nuclear reactions.

Okay. Yeah.

So, there's actually no chemical reactions.

Interesting.

All there is is taking a material

and separating it.

And so, it's a sorting operation. It's a refinement operation.

Interesting.

So, you do need some nuclear engineers, but it's not the bulk of the team. What we really need is, you know, the team today is comprised of aerospace engineers, like applied physics, electrical, software, chemical engineers, mechanical, all these classic engineering disciplines, and then a few nuclear engineers. Yeah. So, we're really just looking from for the best from every every discipline.

And then the facility in Paduka, can you give me an idea of what scale we're talking about? We've seen Crusoe building these gigawatt campuses. They're massive. Are we at that scale or are we smaller? Like is this a mega project? Are there, you know, can one can you hop in a golf cart and drive around or can you hop on the the the bulldozer and push the dirt around or is it like you know those huge those huge uh you know dump trucks that you see going into mines?

Not that. Okay. Not that big.

So all above ground. So to set the stage, Paduka, Kentucky.

Yeah.

Over 3,000 acres. Used to host enrichment. The number one enrichment site in the US. It's what made the US the world leader in enrichment back in the 80s 90s. That site uh was a DOE site that was then fully shut down in 2013. So, the town still remembers when there was enrichment there. They're very supportive of it. The reason we picked Paduka was actually the local community being extremely supportive of of enrichment and nuclear operations there. Through conversations with the DOE, we found 100 acres at the south end of the site. So, to answer your size question, it's really 100 acres inside the DOE fence where they are currently uh taking down the old gaseous diffusion plant and planning to re-industrialize that. So, our partnership with DOE was around reindustrializing that site and potentially using some of the depleted uranium that's already there to help produce new fuel. Okay.

So, we're talking, you know, ballpark a million square feet of building on 100 acres.

Got it. Uh you you you talk a big game about being upstream of the nuclear energy generation, but what's upstream of you? Uh does America have uranium in the ground? Do we have deposits? Do we need to mine this? Are we mining it?

Yeah, I heard you guys have a whiteboard somewhere.

We do. Let's get the whiteboard out. I would love to have you white this out for you.

Whiteboard out for us. This is a live demo, which is always risky, but uh you are an expert in this. Let's see how this goes.

We have them on the light on the box.

So, explain to us uh what what is this? The nuclear fuel reaction process or refinement process.

This is Yeah, this is just the five steps to make nuclear fuel.

Okay, great. So, it's pretty simple. Step one is milling and mining. You get it out of the ground.

That's U308, often called yellow cake.

Okay.

You then convert it into a gas.

Mhm.

Once it's converted into a gas, you can enrich.

Mhm.

Once it's enriched

and is that a centrifuge process? Basically,

uh there's a there's a bunch of processes. We are not yet sharing our process. Maybe I'll come on later this year and share that one. But,

uh there are a few different processes. Everything from centrifuge, gaseous diffusion, laser, aerodynamic, you know, aquous.

Interesting.

Once you enrich, you then can deconvert back into a solid. And once you have a solid,

you make fuel pellets. That's fuel fabrication.

Yes.

So in the US today, we already have US mining.

We do.

In a few different states.

And do we have the deposits here, too? Is America rich in this natural resource?

Yeah, we have plenty of uranium in the US. Our deposits are not as rich as some other countries, but they're still economical to mine. And so you see new new mines coming online in Texas, in Wyoming.

Yeah. But if someone throws at you, do we have enough fuel to power, you know, uh 10 gawatts of nuclear power during the next wave of the AI boom, you're not blinking at that.

This is not the issue. So plenty of US mines.

Great.

US conversion is actually right across the river from our site in Kentucky. So there is a US conversion facility run by Honeywell.

Oh, interesting. And that's and that's going well as well. That that's working.

That was mothballled last decade.

Bringing it back online now. So that production's coming back. Yeah.

Enrichment is the one step where there's no capacity, less than.1% of global capacity.

Interesting.

So effectively out of the game here. There is, you know, R&D scale in different locations, but nothing that's commercially relevant for either our existing reactors on the grid or the advanced reactors coming soon.

Is that the hardest step in the process? I think it's the step with the most technology leverage.

Yeah,

that's part of the reason we thought we can make a big difference here.

Yeah. So, you said you're not sharing your process there. I I can think of a lot of reasons for that. Is

Jordy, quickly, grab the mic.

Uh is uh is there any risk with this business of like like fast follow risk? People see, you know, the business has traction.

I mean, it seems so easy. I imagine like every YC founder will just be I'm doing that. No, I I [laughter] I think to me it looks like the business with the least fast follow risk because you'd have to be insane to to go after this opportunity, especially cuz like feels like pretty quickly you'll have a talent vortex and a lot of the people that are the enthusiasts, the people on that that sort of bathtub cur bathtub curve. You talked about why would you want to work at the sort of you know second or third uh you know horse in in the race.

Uh or how do you think about that? I mean, as a as a former FF guy, I imagine like you want the you you want to build a business with the lowest possible fast follow risk.

Yeah. The main the main goal here is just bring this capability back.

Your intuition's right though. It's it's not an easy thing to start. So to build a facility like this is over a billion dollars, multiple billions at full scale.

Um you know, obviously it's a sensitive technology. So a lot of the people on the team, almost all of them have to have security clearance who are working on tech. Um, and so yeah, there's there's a lot of different hurdles to get started, but you know, I think at the end of the day, we want there to be multiple US players in the space.

We think this is a lot like, you know, there's so many parallels to space launch where I started my career at SpaceX.

SpaceX did become the place that a lot of aerospace engineers wanted to work. They moved fast. They did innovative things. They were making a real difference in the industry. Um but ultimately even SpaceX wanted there to be many players because the ultimate goal wasn't to build a business. The ultimate goal was to make human space flight happen. Yeah.

And for us it's really about making nuclear energy not just not just the safest, not just the cleanest, but the cheapest form of base load.

Yeah. And the SpaceX thing is so interesting because uh you know obviously the Blue Origin team's worked very hard, but you have to wonder would Blue Origin be as dominant as is without SpaceX? probably there's like some knock-on or competitive effect just like oh if he's going I got to go and now America has the two best space launch companies it seems like it seems like China's

somebody to to to build a a viable competitor you might need to spend a decade at at the company and actually learn uh learn the process and with Blue Origin people forget Blue Origin started before SpaceX

oh that's right so I think the big difference was that

Blue Origin had someone that everyone on the team knew would just fund it

continuous continuously until it succeeded. SpaceX was do or die basically.

And so their whole mindset was always we're bringing the cost down. We're commercial. We have to stand on our own two feet. That's that's our mindset as well.

Yeah. Every penny matters. Interesting. Uh talk to me about the fuel. You said fuel pellets. Uh we've had Doug from Radiant on the show before. He talks about tricoof fuel. What is fuel? Are you able to make it? Are you solving his problem or are you just a one piece of the puzzle for him when he needs fuel?

We are this middle step of enrichment. So downstream of us, people take

take uh the gas that's converted one step ahead of us, turn it back into a solid

and then turn it into fuel pellets. Trico is one type of fuel pellet.

So Trico is typically used for Halo, the more enriched fuel

and the basic idea is that it's additional containment for the fuel. Okay.

So, not only is it containment, but it also has a negative reaction coefficient with temperature. So, as things get hotter, it slows down the reactions and basically self-regulates.

Got it.

Um, and so a lot of people like trico

safer,

safer, um, adds a little bit of cost.

Okay.

Uh, reduces packing density inside the core. So, there's some drawbacks, but overall net positive.

But if trico becomes a massive industry, you'll be part of the supply chain.

That's right.

That makes sense. Okay. Got There's really two form factors people are thinking about a lot. One is Halo inside of Trico pellets.

Okay.

Second is traditional LEU

uh cylinders ingots.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. Uh what are you seeing in terms of timelines to bring new reactors online? Obviously, we talked to Doug about going to the dome and uh and testing a new reactor design. There's a constant line I hear repeated about uh the the regulators haven't approved new designs. It feels like there's a lot of energy to change that. Uh when do you expect sort of a a blip in the graph, an uptick in the growth of nuclear power generation in America?

Yeah, we really expect to see that growth curve really getting steep at the end of the decade. So, you've probably talked to a few reactor companies beyond Doug. A lot of people are aiming for this year for first

test,

first criticality, first tests.

You then would go through a licensing process that now under NRC y uh executive orders is meant to only take 18 months.

And so, you know, that puts you at, let's say, 2028 for really having the ability to go build and deploy a lot of reactors. I think we then see that really curve up early 2030s.

Got it. Yeah. Um, and I and I imagine that even if you get a Radiant or any of these other companies to produce a few units, it takes a while until it actually puts a dent in the curve. Right. That's right.

Um, talk to me about the relationship with the White House. I love seeing you in the Oval Office. It's amazing. It's such a such a tangible example of the work that you're doing. Um, are but but how do the other energy players uh think about nuclear today? You could imagine a world where big oil is saying, "Yeah, it sounds good, but let's just not do that. Let's keep doing what we're doing because it's our core business." Or we could see what we're doing in AI where Google jumped in on the AI boom immediately. And so, do you think the oil and gas companies will become partners? They created gas. Maybe it's a bad analogy, but but you get what I'm saying. Like you could see a world where oil and gas companies become very synergistic. They're partnering with you. They are excited about the new technology. or maybe it's more just competitive till the end. How do you see that playing out?

I don't worry about the competition piece really. I think yeah, I think one one microcosm of this is really looking at the Department of Energy and it's you know, Secretary Wright comes from the oil and gas industry yet he's been one of the biggest advocates for nuclear energy. Interesting.

And so a lot of people will will ask the same question around is the oil and gas industry an enemy of nuclear? Has it been an issue for nuclear? I'd say not at all. the oil and gas industry has been trying to increase US energy production by whatever means are available and that's that's the lever that they have the nuclear industry has not done the same thing for I think a variety of reasons but

people blame outside parties I think you know in the principle of just taking ownership for things I think it's the the industry needs to take ownership for why it has not grown and I think the advanced reactor vendors are trying to solve that by bringing down the cost while increasing safety and increasing deployability. Yeah, Jordy,

where how how are you setting up uh the the company geographically? I'm assuming you're spending a good amount of time in Kentucky, but you know, where where's the team mostly been?

Part of San Francisco.

Yeah. Yeah. Right downtown. [laughter] No. Uh Kentucky is where we're really growing the team aggressively, but engineering is also in LA.

Yeah. So, two pieces, engineering headquarters, GNA, really primarily California,

and then the facility itself, construction, production, primarily Kentucky.

Um, talk to me about solar. Uh, you worked at SpaceX. Elon's a bit of a solar maxi. At least it seems like he's a solar maxi. It's always hard to read the tea leaves from his post, but, uh, solar seems like a similar opportunity. It's a big scale. It's unlimited. It's the fusion reactor in the sky with unlimited energy. Um, and a lot of folks have painted sci-fi solar punk futures. Uh, you obviously looked at those companies, too. How do the two technologies play together? Why did you think nuclear was the real bottleneck? What are the benefits of nuclear relative to solar? When do you pick one over the other? What does the blend look like over the next couple decades?

Yep. Yeah. So, the solar uh AI data center in orbit concept is a new thing. uh you know it's probably the last few weeks that it's really become something people are talking about. If we rewind a couple years ago and we're talking okay data centers on Earth and do you want to do solar or do you want to do nuclear

solar obviously takes a lot more area on the ground but there's there is plenty of area for that in general.

The missing piece was really storage. Yeah.

So solar is inherently cyclical. You need to smooth it out. To smooth it out you need very cheap grid scale or at least gigawatt scale storage.

Batteries.

Batteries. Batteries are other forms. We haven't had that yet at a cost point that I think can compete with nuclear.

Sure,

that could change and that would be great. But for now, in the foreseeable future on Earth, it's nuclear.

And that's what you mean by base load. Nuclear power plant once you fire it up, you're getting whatever it says. If it says 1 megawatt, you get one megawatt 24 hours a day. Doesn't matter if it's sun, shine, rain, snow.

That's right. Versus turning off at night time and having to go off the batteries that were charged up during the day.

Yeah. Now, when we talk about in orbit, it's a whole different ballgame

because you can be in sun-synchronous orbit, you get sunlight like 99% of the time. Correct.

That's right.

Got it.

So, if you have very cheap launch capacity, Yeah.

if your GPUs don't weigh very much, which they don't, and they're high value, you could potentially put all of that in orbit, have your solar panel completely in sun sync,

solve the battery issue. The one remaining piece is you've got a lot of incident solar energy. You're going to run those GPUs. How do you cool them? And I think that's that's the piece that people are going to be working on for the next few years.

Yeah, that's the material science question. So you're saying put the solar panels in orbit, keep them off the Earth. Earth is your domain. We're going to do nuclear down here.

That works. [laughter] Of course, we'll do both. Uh

until of course, you know, the 2040 pitch for general matter. We're putting a putting a reactor on the moon.

On the moon,

moon reactors

there. There nuclear does have applications in space though, right? Didn't the what was it? the Mars lander, the Mars uh helicopter that we put out there had some sort of nuclear fuel in it. How does how do you get energy without putting a full nuclear reactor there? Do you understand how that works?

Yeah, typically you'll have um a fuel source

Yeah.

that has a shorter halflife and can emit a lot of energy more quickly. Uranium has a very very long halflife.

Okay.

Um some of these other ones have much shorter so you can harness heat off of that and charge batteries continuously.

So it's basically just a hot rock.

That's right.

It's not actually a full reactor with rods going in and out. It's not Chernobyl or anything like that. It's just hot rock.

That is Yeah, that's right. If you're talking about lunar reactors, that would be a different story. If you're talking about, you know, interstellar things from science fiction,

more like a reactor, Yeah. is what everyone's always talked about. But the things that have been deployed so far are usually radioisotopes.

Yeah, that makes sense. Uh what are the biggest bottlenecks uh leading into the end of the decade? 2030, that seems like an important moment for the company. Obviously job's not finished then but uh talent money approvals regulatory anything else what what else is going on?

Yeah our the way we think about it is is the primary bottleneck to get online by end of decade

and to be at huge scale with the world's lowest cost of enrichment is all about the team. Yeah.

So it's all about recruiting. It's all about engineering.

It's not just engineering of what goes into the building. It's the construction of the building. So out in Kentucky, we're building our own EPC and general contractor inhouse to run that just like was done at Tesla Gigafactories.

Yeah.

In LA, we're doing the engineering on all the components that go inside to to cost and scale optimize those.

How do you balance the desire to run quickly with not swinging at every pitch when you get a new applicant? It feels like

it feels like hiring is maybe similar to investing. You don't want to just say, "Oh, I have to make it one investment every quarter because my fund is X size." You also might not want to say, "I need to hire one engineer every month." Right.

How do you How do you stay sane in an environment where you have to hire people, but

Yeah. Right.

It's lumpy.

Yeah. You know what your open roles are. You know what you want to have on the team. If we look at that, we're hiring over 100 people this year across sites. [snorts]

Oh, we got to hit the gone for that.

Boom. I got

How does it feel in person? It's like you feel it. Really feel it in your bones. It's

louder in person. I can feel it. Yeah, that's great. [laughter]

Um, but like you said, you have to, you know, the key thing for scaling a company is keeping the bar high. I think Naval has said this a bunch of times, the team you build is the company you build.

And so, we're trying to find people that are just extremely passionate, great engineers, great operators who are aligned and just want to work on this problem and solve it.

Yeah. Uh what's the biggest lesson from working with Peter on the board on the team like with you know your career that you're taking through this business?

I think for this business it was it was really the lesson of you know a lot of people want to go after a trillion dollar market and own a tiny percent of it.

Sure.

We're trying to solve first the Halo shortage in the US that's going to prevent all reactors from coming online if they can't have the fuel that they need.

That's arguably a small market today. But you want to start, it's okay to start in a small market and then grow into a bigger one. And so our markets are really Halo. Yeah. Which you could say is maybe a hundred million dollar market today. Something like that. And then LEU enrichment, which in the US alone is a couple billion dollar market.

Yeah.

And then you go from there. So I think

probably the best lesson is the 0ero to one lesson of start small, solve a real problem for some known customer and go from there.

Yeah. That's great. That's great. Jordy, anything else?

Very cool. Thank you so much. full breakdown

for coming on the show.

The whiteboard moment. We appreciate a whiteboard.

We love a whiteboard moment. Uh well, we will leave you there. Thank you so much for tuning in. We will see you tomorrow at 11 a.m. Pacific.

Uh leave us five stars on Apple Podcast and Spotify and sign up for our newsletter at tvpn.com. See you.