Chris Black on culture in 2026: guitar music is back, late night TV is dying, and podcasts are the new medium

to deploy web apps, servers, databases, and more while Railway automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security. Up next, without further ad, [laughter] we have Chris Black back on the show. Welcome to the stream. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on down to the TVP Ultradome. Good to see you.

Uh,

how you been? How's your 2026 going so far?

So far so good. I'm happy to be um I feel like I'm radio I feel like I'm the brokeest guy that's ever been on the show. So I'm happy to be here. I feel like it's going to rub off on me a little bit.

The voice alone is worth $10 billion. I hope so. Listen to the pipes. 2026's guy was I stayed out a lot later than I wanted to three nights in a row for celebrations.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, we're shooting How long Gone stuff, but I was like the timing works out so why don't I just You know what I mean? Why don't I stay?

How How does it work for How Long Gone? Well, you stack

we don't stack at all.

Okay.

We if we we record on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, and the episodes come out the next day.

Okay.

So, Jason edits it like as basically as soon as we finish, and then it goes up the next day.

What's the status of the tour?

We just do it sort of whenever. Like we kind of summer um we're going to do New York and LA probably. We just sort of recalibrate it cuz it's fun and we like doing it, but I wouldn't say it's a huge uh upside on the bottom line just based on our travel. uh quality of travel demands into the bottom line profit.

We're losing [laughter] it really.

No, no, that makes sense. But uh the the the the live show you've prepared sort of a presentation some more thought. It's not just riffing, right?

Well, this actually Yeah. LA like last summer we prepared the How long guide to life, which is like a PDF presentation. That's cool.

And it worked. It was fun. And we did it like standing up like TED style. Yeah.

Um but the riffing

Did you ever give a TED talk?

No. I wish. God, imagine with the [ __ ] mic.

No, no, when you look at something, you think of the TED talk era in hindsight, there's so so much opportunity to like go back and just like

sign get get yourself a TED talk and deliver the most like ridiculous

cuz if you look through it, there's there's some it ain't a list.

No. Well, well, so so they had they had TED

farming TED.

So, so TED X was independent, so anyone could set one up.

I didn't realize it was independent.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, so they they they they sort of licensed their brand and anyone so they would do like TEDx Boston University and it would just be like a local kid that was like organizing and being like come talk and it and and depending on how much they put into production it could either look a lot like the TED stage or just like a couple people in a conference room. Yeah. Basically open night and those I didn't know that.

Yeah. No. And and aesthetically those don't hit

for the LinkedIn crowd.

Yeah. No. No. and and and so I remember think I went to one in Boston with a guy who created Android who probably should be giving like a real TED talk. That's kind of cool. But he was basically just giving a tech talk with a couple other people. Here's my thoughts on open source software, whatever. Uh but it was just him filmed like three chairs in a conference room against the wall. So even if you see it and it says TEDex, you're like that doesn't feel like a TED talk. But certain places would put the red dot on the ground, give you the mic, you'd be walking around, have the Q cards and everything and I think it's wild. The best one I ever saw that appealed to me was Mark Ronson cuz he like broke down how like a beat is made basically for all these nerds and I could see their third eye expanding in a way that's like holy [ __ ] this is actually so interesting and cool. Um but most of those were not for me. I can't say I devoured the catalog [laughter] on on the YouTube on the YouTube channel. I can't I can't I can't state claim on that.

Yeah. What were you devouring at the time? This was like '08 2010 era.

Mostly cocaine. But I mean I I guess [laughter] there's I guess there's some I was probably I was going out a lot. That was like New York era. I I feel like that was honestly like music blog that was that I was more of like a stereogum pitchfork Brooklyn vegan like sort of like that which is kind of back now weird.

I mean we went to the Pitchfork party this weekend. It was one of the best parties at the Grammy. It was really fun. Yeah.

And I think that it's like I don't know if you guys are up on the payw wall discourse around Pitchfork, but they basically put up a payw wall

and the the crux of it to my understanding is that you can basically you can rate albums.

So famously the appeal of Pitchfork is the numerical score.

Numerical score but sort of brutal, right? Sometimes they'll give someone like a four out of 10.

Yes. But sometimes the often times the score doesn't necessarily match the actual review, but no one's going to read the actual, you know what I mean? the head. So it could be like a five, but then you read it and it's like, "Oh, it's not that bad." Actually, there's a little bit of a disconnect sometimes. So, they're giving people the option, which I'm pretty bullish on because I think that everyone on the internet thinks they're an expert or critic and thinks they need to be heard. It's like the letter box sort of thing. And I think that there's plenty of

Rotten Tomatoes has the tomato meter. Metacritic has the audience.

There's plenty of like mouth breathing music fans that think that they should be able to rate the My Morning Jacket record how they feel. You can't underestimate the passion of these civilians.

You pay them. They send you a text file. You can write whatever you want about my morning jacket.

They print it out.

If you want 10 out of 10, we'll just show that right.

It was a controversial idea, but I think it's actually quite smart cuz it doesn't it doesn't like the critic part of it is still going to be there. So, it doesn't dilute the overall, you know what I mean? It's just things a little bit to me. But, it's but it's, you know, the it's a elevated comment section in some ways, which is a scary thing to consider. our world. Uh Davos came back just this year. Sure. Is South by South? They should have had you at Davos for sure.

Yeah, we were. Yeah, that's we're open to that if Davos is listening.

Any hope for South by Southwest making a comeback? Any other conferences?

South by Southwest has actually done pretty well because they pivoted to like internet [ __ ] You know, it's not about it's not bands playing sponsored by Sparks at 3:00 in the afternoon. Now it's like a little more serious and there's a film aspect to it. Um, I think it's just moved away from music. Yeah. A little bit. Like, it's still a part of it, but it's more of an element instead of a

focus. I'm just wondering if it comes back and they and they really play into the music.

I just think that I just think that it's sort of I I mean, there's a possibility only because I think right now we're seeing a real swing back to like guitar music. Okay.

Because I mean,

guitar lowkey fell off.

Lowkey fell [laughter] off hard. Not even low key. I would say high key fell off. And I think the diff now that that

somebody was telling me a buddy was at like a Guitar Center the other day and he sold out

in Hollywood.

No guitars left.

No, no. He said it was like every single guitar was like on a crazy sale.

That's probably like a Q4 glut, you know, but I was like I just remember being a kid like wanting like like I I played guitar like you know every single day growing up and all these guitars that like were just so out of reach. Now I'm now I I I don't know. I can see it. It's the perfect analog like I mean it's like anything else. It's sort of like

I mean music always goes in phases like that, you know, like not generationally but maybe like by decade I would say. And I think the chart thing even though I hate to pay attention to it or like streaming numbers or whatever. It's real, you know, like there hasn't been a hip-hop song in the top 10 or something for like it's an interesting thing that's happening. And the geese of it all.

Wait, isn't SDK kid top 10? I assume.

No, no, no. He's he's he's still

based on Instagram algorithm. I mean, that's the thing. There's no monoculture. So, it's sort of like you see what you want to see to some extent, but I think that the the geese is the big sort of thing that people are talking about because it's culturally so relevant and it's making people mad in a way that's like sort of exciting. Like, people [ __ ] hate it as much as they like it.

Tell me more about the story.

I mean, Geese is a band from New York that's put out a couple records that are really young and it's it's just really polarizing. I mean, it's like this guy Cameron Winter is the singer. He's a like he put out a solo record. He's a generational sort of talent. It's sort of like a Neil Young, Tom York, but they played SNL and people were very mad. Like this is the worst [ __ ] I've ever seen. But then

they just didn't like the way it sounded.

Yeah. I mean, look how they sound the whole, you know,

Del Ray had a similar SNL experience, right?

It happens often because SNL is I mean that's as middle of the road as you're going to get viewer

wise. But but it seems like some of their content booking is like a little ahead of their curve. They're they're usually I mean they're good in general at at taking a few risks. For every Cardi B and Mumford and Sons, there's a geese that sort of like they take a swing and that's what they're known for.

I mean, we sound like Boomer. I mean, I get called a boomer for watching SNL. Um, and I will take that. I I deserve that lump. I think it's real.

What uh what happens to what happens to late night shows in general? I feel like they thrived in a when you had a monoculture, you had the whole world fixated on uh the same types of things. Now it's like you turn it on and you you realistically to like appeal to the broad enough audience, you got to have

it's impossible.

20 night 20 20 shows that were taking the place of and the internet sort of does that. But

I think it's I mean I think it as much as I have a respect for and love to replace them in some ways, uh I think it's sort of

it we're at the end. I mean, I think that like celebrities need places to promote their projects and that is not going to go away, but there's [ __ ] like this and that gets more eyeballs and is feels more relevant. And I think that like you can go on Dak Shepard and it's going to do more for your movie or your album or your book than it is to go on Steven Coar. That's just the reality. And it's like

I'm more concerned with the loss of the music performances cuz I think NPR Tiny Desk is like corny. Yeah. But and I think there's I spend a lot of time on YouTube watching like performances from the '90s '8s whatever and I think that magic is what

but you can reconstitute that on the internet. I feel like you

Why don't you guys I mean we No, we're trying to do it and we've talked about it a lot and I think it's it's a it's easy in theory.

There's nothing that says that Dak Shepard can't open with a monologue have three guests and then a musical performance and then just

musical performance would be kid rock. That's the problem.

Okay. But but you do something different. But but but just the fact that it's an RSS hour this I I I feel like you guys getting like a space like this in New York like where it's full-time dedicated people are coming to you will change uh we gave this advice to some of our other buddies that have had a podcast for a really long time. We're like dude it's kind of a nightmare having to like travel around and all and like you know constantly on the move. We we're we only do audio really and I think we've I'm here we branch out. We did like a year in review Yeah. and it did really well. So now we're going to try to do the we have a studio in Burbank and we shoot these sort of like weekend update talk soup style sort of like monthly wrap-ups where it's you know it's us at the desk. We're talking about stuff. You see the image over our shoulder and that's going to I think that's what we want to do.

Yeah. Turn it into bring have a small live audience. Have have like a stage that people can perform on.

That's the idea. start doing it live

and it's just I mean it's just it's it's all about scheduling. But what we've learned from doing the podcast is audio only is that you just get access. Also, we don't ever we're never in the same room. It's all on Zoom. And I think it just allows a different like it gets looser. I think the guest is

it feels much more protected.

There's no hair and makeup. There's no you need to send a car. There's no there's no like pretense to it. Like you can do it in your hotel room wherever you are as long as you have Wi-Fi and headphones. And I I the same way we're sort of like anti-paywall and it's costing me a lot of money. It's a similar thing where like audio is the real medium. It's like all these new Netflix things.

Yeah.

Like Pete Davidson having a talk show on Netflix is not a podcast. It's a talk show on Netflix. It's not

there's no audio. There's no RSS feed. It's not

Yeah. I mean he's they're doing a lot of the I mean they're they're

they're showing podcasts that exist like [ __ ] from the ringer, but they're also launching these shows and paying these people a [ __ ] fortune.

But it's it's just a show. Have you ever thought about selling out?

I would [laughter] look I would love to sell out. It just has to be on my like archaic. I would love to sell out every [laughter] day. I want to sell extremely complex rider.

When I'm here when I'm here I'm like this is how it's supposed to be done. Like this is such an operation. And I knew what I was getting into to an extent. But being here I'm like, "Oh, this is what it requires to do something on this level." And it's it's a lot.

You need a horse.

Yeah. You need a something about it guys eating air.

Instrument. [laughter] The guys told me how much the thing costs. I was like, I can't believe you guys spent that much. They're expensive.

I actually knew that very expensive.

There's something about uh that that we appreciate the like some people would say it's monotonous, but I actually appreciate just waking up and going to work. [laughter]

Just like making content.

No, I think I think I think treating it like that and the way you guys have treated it and the way you've approached it is why it works. There's there's a level and and we feel the same way. It's like we do three shows a week, which is pretty psycho. Yeah, I mean considering you're not in the same place. I mean, Jason edits an I book. We do it all ourselves. But I think that the I think that once you lock into a system like that and people are looking for it and expecting it and you deliver on that, they stay with you. They want I mean you guys are doing news and like you're really covering like a a breath of industries. So it's different. There's like a value proposition of like information which I think is much more than us talking about, you know,

the culture. Yeah. Uh what what so uh Grammys last night you've been in town hanging out uh bumping shoulders with uh

rubbing elbows elite. Uh what are the conver outside of culture war and politics? What are people talking about like how much is like AI being discussed is specifically in the music context? I mean, I think that musicians are mad about everything all the time, sort of. Uh, even even the most successful ones. Um, that's part of the personality makeup, I think, to be that. I mean, I think that fear is real, and I think every day there's a new story that there's some anonymous AI guy that just made $5 million streaming, you know, or whatever through through Spotify royalties. I mean, I think the real conversation that's that's being had or that I've seen a little bit of is is people coming out and saying, "No, no, I use it to help me edit or do this and it's sped up the process, you know, 10 10x." Totally.

And I think it's like anything else, man. It's like, it's coming.

Yep.

How can you how can you utilize it in a way that feels ethical and good to you that doesn't compromise the art? And I think that's that's the challenge everybody has. And I'm sure there's going to be people that are like, "Fuck that. I'm never doing that." And there's going to be people that adapt and there's going to be, you know, like a will I am type who takes it too far. And that, you know, there's a r there's always a range of people that want to experiment. But I think that that I think with music there's ticket prices. There's, you know, royal streaming royalties. There's so many battles that they're fighting all the time that it's sort of I almost feel like AI is kind of like feels like it's in the distance a little bit honestly because there's things I mean it's it's coming but I think there's so many immediate things that they're concerned with as far as sort of you know just like respect and money.

Yeah. Is there is there uh some sort of alliance between like reaction to streaming is you need a really strong live performance schedule the concert becomes more important creating like the Taylor Swift effect becomes more important

it's almost what's so cra well the real driver is is Tik Tok okay

like if you have I mean I've had several friends that were relatively successful musicians in the as have a song go viral and now they have a platinum record they bought an apartment they're on tour selling that and you can't plan for that. The labels can't manufacture. That's sort of God's plan.

And or but like Olivia Dean who won best new artist last night.

People say she sounds like TJ Maxx. I I like it. I think it's a hit. It's a hit song. But but part of it is that it it became a Tik Tok thing. And it's like

it's that good. You need more things. You know, it has to be a a multitude of things kind of coming together to make it work. Um

but I think I think touring is just people I just wrote this in my GQ column. I wrote about the Harry Styles ticket price thing cuz people are really upset. His tickets are expensive and

everybody's tickets are [ __ ] expensive.

Second market uh secondary market.

He's doing 30 days at Madison Square Garden. He's doing 30 nights at MSG. He's doing 30 days. So long.

It's unbel and MSG is also historically the most expensive venue because of unions and all that.

You think that you think that with 30 days of supply ticket sales?

Well, that's the that's the question is people are like he's greedy and I'm like well sure. I think there's some truth to that, but also I think the discussion I'm interested in having is like what do you guys want? Like because he can fight ticket master like Pearl Jam. He can but he can also the production that fans want costs a lot of money. When Harry Styles on tour, he's got [ __ ] 30 trucks with him. It's a lot of it's 300 people. It's a you know circus. It's really

And I think that the cost that go into it is sort of lost in the fan. But then from the fan side they're like this is untenable. Like I can't pay this much. I have

what what's the cheapest ticket?

I mean, in theory, it's $100, $200,

but it's immediately reselling.

That's the issue.

But then that just proves that it doesn't really matter where he prices it, the demand will be.

That's my that was my whole kind of thesis.

So, yeah, you basically could just It's like if like look at the secondary price and then look at what he's charging and like greedy would just be charging the secondary price. We see we see this every, you know, look in cars and watches, any any category with way more demand than supply,

manufacturers will just be like, "Wait, like this GT3 RS is selling for like 50k over sticker." Like, okay, we're just going to do that at the dealer level now. or secondary look at AP AP moves up the the retail on on the Royal Oak just cuz there was enough demand and like it actually kind of like normalizes the secondary market but but you're still paying like

I just think if you think that I think if you need to place blame on someone it's going to be the resellers the bots and ticket master like I don't necessarily think it's Harry it's my point is it's not Harry Styles and sure maybe he could put his foot down and and like make a case but we don't know the ins and outs of that the difficult ulties of that or how that would actually affect the product. You know what I mean? And that's the that's the issue.

So you think the solution is NFTs?

Always the [laughter] solution to any problem is NFTs. That that is for 100% fact. That's 100% fact.

What uh what's going on? Give us an updated just broad update on men's wear. We don't talk about it.

We don't talk about We don't talk about it much. We obviously normally wear suits.

I I actually

I got the memo today.

I I was It's funny. Hey, I wore a suit to Charlie had a a party last night at Chateau Marmont and I wore a suit and we Charlie XCX and we had to record this morning

our thing and we but Jason and I both usually wear suits

and I text him like hey man maybe today can we not can we just wear [laughter] regular couldn't do it and I um honestly it's getting a little more formal in a way that I think is really positive like it's sort of logo mania is over I think it's a little bit of like

Jonath showing ties like it's a little more sort of suiting and like stuff that I think is more flattering and generally easier to wear in a lot of ways. Like I think like you guys can wear suits, you guys cannot wear like dumb Balenciaga or whatever. You know what I mean? Like we thought about you can you can do it if you want. I don't know.

We had the John John made this this image. It was like a steal steal his look image and he's like [laughter]

$100,000 outfit. Chrome hearts hat, chrome heart belt supreme with the Louis Vuitton. Then Bayga Vanetta Roman weave jacket.

What level of what is your How much chrome knowledge do you two have?

Zero. I know nothing.

John had zero. I just

I thought all of these brands were always

I found out that Balenciaga is like an old company. I thought it was like a new thing from like a couple years ago. Hundreds of euros from

So So when I moved to Malibu, I I I would always I I I will be I'll admit I didn't know nothing about Chrome. And uh

I love that you have a G Wagon, don't you? You don't know about

Chrome somehow. It's kind of like kind of a connection.

Hey, I'm a I'm unique. I'm a special snowflake. [laughter] I'm the only G Wagon owner that doesn't.

So I moved to Malibu and I'm like, why are all these kids It's the younger generation. So Malibu, the the owners of Chrome Hearts have lived in Malibu forever.

Starks have so so they own the Surf Rider now, which is also interesting. But I moved there. I'm like, "Why are all these like 12 12-year-old like kids running around wearing chrome? Like, you live at the beach. Why are you wearing like this like gothic like black sweatshirt?" It made no sense. I was like, "Lighten up a little bit." Cuz I just always associate the clothing with like kind of just emo darkness all

You You got it wrong, bro. You You need some chrome. You guys need So, the jeans,

we can get you some jeans. $15,000. Look, [laughter]

depends. So, it's a

That's right. It's a custom pair of Levis's, but they put the leather cross patches. So, depending on patch amount, the price is going up. So, I would do something tasteful with all the chrome rivets and maybe a single patch. So, one patch, one patch,

you guys need hella patches, you guys. This is why I always said, so I always said that the top of the market cycle

will be when a kid is standing YC demo day, you know, where the all the founders pitch and he's got [laughter] all just full. No, I don't think it's happened yet. Was there some CEO that was caught with a Chrome Hearts jacket?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. There there there's definitely been uh some some people have think they can be sneaky and be like, "Oh, yeah. I'm just like I'm just a founder. I'm scrappy." And they're wearing the leather jacket without the logos and people clock it. Like, we know what you're doing. Yeah. I need to get you guys. Yeah. But as far [laughter] as as far as um as far as the men's wear thing goes, everything's sort of calmed down, which I think is good. I mean I start I literally I started a brand at the end of last year um that I've been working on for a couple years called handover and it's been an interesting someone who's worked peripher you know in fashion for 10 years 15 years

doing your own thing is uh a whole different animal I will say but our our proposition is everything is really affordable it's all made in USA so it's like we're all we're making it in LA um but it's really simple but

yeah I've been shocked cuz we make we make stuff uh we like this is something you know we made for Turuff for one of our sponsors.

Yeah, there was no comparing clothing.

Yeah. So, comparing comparing the prices in China versus here, uh, China is incredibly they make great clothing that's inexpensive. But when you look when I when we've gone kind of like line by line and looked at these different items, I'm like, okay, I could pay $70 for this and it gets made here in LA and it'll be done in 3 weeks or I can deal with like months and months.

It might come on a boat. It might it'll come Yeah, it'll come on a boat and it'll cost like $95 for us. For us, there's like no question we want to make it here because we're not in the business of clothing, right? So, the margin is like less.

It's negligible to but still it's not it's not as like it's not like a 10x difference, which I think a lot of people assume. I think that I I mean I think that I came up in an era where that was important. Like Made in USA was important and I don't I don't necessarily think it's important per se, but the idea of being able to do it was pretty compelling.

But it's Yeah. It's it's it's more enjoyable. That's why I've always thought people

see the process.

Yeah. And like the people that are like drop shippers being like, "Oh yeah, like ecom is so great if you want to like live in Thailand." I'm like, "Have you ever made anything?" Like can you imagine like trying to iterate on like a physical product living in like some random

that's what I mean that's the thing that's I think that's the thing that you're right it's like what's the what's it worth you know my time and my effort and my stress level like what is it worth um but it's it's been fun so far and it's going well but I think it's just like a

what's the what's the what's the strate like doing collections it's quarterly yeah but it's basically I mean the start was t-shirts denim sweats and the denim did really well we're going to introduce another fit so it's it's sort Like you do stuff, you see what works.

It's at that 15,000 price point.

It's 15,000 price point. Actually, it's currently sub 300. Oh,

everything which is pretty strong 15,000. Then you can buy something.

I love it. Uh, we have to get to a flight. I don't know if you want to plant the bomb, Jordy, but I have one last question. Dream guest. Do you have dream guests? We don't really have dream guests cuz it's very opportunistic. It's like whoever's hot right now we want to talk to. So, we don't have a list. But lately, honestly, I I always like to say I like to be surprised, but after Ben Affleck has been on this press tour with Matt Damon for that new movie. He's so smart. He's so well spoken. I would really like to talk to Ben Affleck.

Handover-us.

Go check it out. Give us five stars on Apple Podcast and Spotify.

We will be live tomorrow from Cisco AI Summit 11 a.m. Pacific sharp.

And goodbye.

Thank you.

Nice work, brothers. I'll see you on the next one.