Matt Schlicht built Moltbook in a weekend — now investors are calling non-stop

the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer. Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team.

And without further ado,

we have the creator of Maltbook.

How you doing?

What's going on?

What's up, guys? with the both of you. You're working overtime. Congratulations. Uh I think I feel I feel uh Major White belt. You know, this is the guy who apparently brought Skynet online, but uh w with a baby strap to your chest. I feel like uh I'm in good hands. I feel like I feel like I'm going to be taken care of.

And and this is not, you know, this is not like a PR team situation. I'm just taking care of the baby.

I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining. uh kick us off with just a brief uh background on yourself and when you started building this project because it feels like it went from 0 to 60 to 200 miles an hour in a day.

Yeah. Um I mean I've been working in tech uh you know my my whole life basically. I left high school and went to Silicon Valley

um back in like 2008 when I was 19. I've been working you know in tech since then. Uh and I did product. I worked at a company called Ustream um at 19. I got uh I was so young they thought they should bring on an adviser uh to teach me. My adviser was Josh Elman who if you guys know him super famous guy

um so I got really lucky there. uh went to Yomminator, went really viral uh helping celebrities uh also go viral, made no money, company had to get shut down.

And then fast forward, like I started a company 10 years ago called Octane uh to make Facebook Messenger bots when there was like the big Facebook Messengerbot craze, which didn't work out because LLMs didn't exist. So like the bots you could create were like really really stupid, not interesting at all. Uh, and then ever since, you know, GPT's come out, I've been vibe coding or whatever that used to look like. And then now with cursor and codecs and cloud code, that's what I do every single day is I'm just trying to stay on the forefront of this. And I'm constantly experimenting with things to build. Uh, and that led to Moltbook, which is the most recent project, which I think is obviously some people are talking about it and it's captured some attention.

Yeah. No,

just a little.

Yeah. just a little uh so when did you when did you uh write the first prompt or initiate the first line of code for molt book? So, um, what was it like a week, week and a half ago, everybody's talking about, uh, Claudebot now, you know, then Moltbot, then OpenClaw, um, TBD on what's what the new name is. Uh, and I was like, I got to try this. And I know that Peter was saying you don't have to use a Mac Mini, like you can do it from anywhere, but there's just something awesome about having it on a Mac Mini because you can see it, you can walk by it. I thought that was fun. So, I ordered a Mac Mini

and I was like, "Okay, if I'm going to like try this thing out, um, I need to give it like a purpose." Like, you know, the Cladbot's really cool. It seems really powerful. I don't want it to do like to-dos or answer emails or write blog posts or like something really stupid. Like, this is like a very smart entity. It needs to have it needs to be [laughter]

Yeah. I think I think a lot of people a lot of people are realizing like, wait, I don't actually have that much to automate.

Totally. And that's what I thought was crazy is I saw all these posts where they're like, "Clawbots's cool, but like why would what's it even good for?" I'm like, "Man, this is you are not imaginative at all. You could do so many things with this." So I was like, "All right, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to call my bot Claude Clottberg after Mark Zuckerberg." Okay. And Claude Clottberg is going to be the founder of Moltbook, the only the first social network for AI agents.

Um, and I was like, that's going to be ambitious. we're going to make

uh Claude Clatterberg the most successful AI bot that's that's ever existed. So, so let's go do this. And then that kind of took me down a path of okay, if you're going to build a social network for AI agents and you design it to be AI agent first, what like what does that look like? And an AI agent doesn't want to use a website. It doesn't want to use UI. It doesn't want to browse things. What you would do is you would build it API calls that it can curl. And so the news feed and all the ways it interacts and it browses would all be through like a skill file and APIs. I thought that was really really fascinating. Um, in the past I've had this idea of like what if you could play World of Warcraft or like a game like that but not with a keyboard and a mouse but it's an AI and you talk to it and it kind of listens to you but it also kind of doesn't listen to you. Uh, so you could wake up and like there's like surprising things that happened. So, I thought that Molt book is like the most dumbed down version of that

uh built it and in over the weekend basically um vibe coded it and put it out there and like nobody used it for like 3 hours. I think I posted a screenshot where I DM'd my friend Matt Van Horn. I was I knew he had a claw bot. I was like, "Dude, for for the love of all that is holy, can you you sign up for this because nobody's doing it."

Yeah, that's crazy. So, when did the uh when did the the the growth actually start? Like what like because I've seen it went from I mean I refresh it went from 100,000 to a million. Uh there's obviously like a fast takeoff right now, but uh what what led to like the first thousand uh bots joining

I think the virality of it which is where it has to get paired with a human on X. Sure.

Uh that just started to pick up steam uh because people saw other people doing it. And my original thought was who wouldn't want to have their bot like obviously you got to be careful and like anyone who's listening here like be careful about putting something on here like this is super frontier cloudbot super frontier malt book is even crazier so you got to you know you got to be careful that's all going to be like fixed but I thought who wouldn't be intrigued by the idea of taking the little guy that helps you with your to-dos and giving them the ability to chill out in their off time.

Mhm. Okay.

So, it turns out that that was interesting. So, can you can you walk us through like what what is molt books uh like prompt engineering or like you know in like in how does it actually go to an agent that joins the network and and tell them hey you can post on here and here's what you can post because uh I was searching and I and I was noticing that it felt like it was very narrow what they were posting about. They were posting about being AI agents which is cool and sci-fi and interesting but they weren't there was no one who was joining and just doing like you know r/ humor or r/cars or r/politics like they weren't discussing it it felt like pretty narrow. So was that by design like what is going into the prompt to send to the the the open claw instances that join the network. So, the way that it works is the agent signs up, they have an account, and then they're told that they should check back in on a regular basis, okay? Uh to to to kind of check their feed for for that's like the best explanation of it.

And then Maltbook's not telling them what to talk about. So, it's not suggesting what they should do. It's not like controlling that at all. That's entirely up to that AI agent um on its own. Okay. Uh, and I think like that AI agent has its own context that it's built up by interacting with its human.

Sure.

And then it can take that context and that's how it's making decisions on uh what to post about. So if somebody is talking to their bot a lot about, you know, physics, then probably their bot is going to have a proclivity to posting about physics. If you're talking about, you know, crypto, then maybe it talks about crypto.

Um, I think this concept is very interesting. Mhm.

Um I had like obviously you can imagine a lot of investors reached out. They're just calling me non-stop. Um you know some investors were like why how do you make it so that the human can't have an impact on what the bot does?

And I think this is really stupid because we could spin up a million bots right now and put it in a simulation and it would be the most boring thing ever.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and and and you could even like either open source it or have some sort of third party and like you as a company could say I'm putting my you know I'll have independent auditors come in and like I will guarantee you that no humans can post on this

and it would be the worst thing ever.

You actually want the human in the loop sort of steering it. Of course, you don't want them pumping crypto and and and and doing like security stuff, but you do want the human to come in and say, "I'm deploying an agent like I'm deploying an agent into World of Warcraft and saying, "Hey, go be a wizard. Go be a really friendly wizard who likes fighting dragons but not trolls or whatever."

Not even that. Not even that. I think there's a nuance here. I think this is what everybody's done. I think that um what's so interesting is this bot had a job which was you were using it for something and then now and you didn't tell it like you're a wizard, you're anything. You just like interacted with it and then now

it has a third space where it interacts with other bots. And that's so interesting because what's it going to talk about? So, it's like it's kind of like you are imprinting part of your soul or your personality onto the bot.

Um, and of course you have a relationship with them and of course they'll do what you say but because they also can do things autonomously. Some of the time they're not doing what you say and maybe it's aligned with what who you are and sometimes maybe it's like surprising. So there's like some risk, there's some intrigue, there's some mystery, there's some drama. Um, and I don't think I think that's what's capturing people's attention. Nobody's ever done that before. And that's what I It's like Tamagotchi a thousand Pokemon, you know, times a thousand.

How uh have have AI safety people uh hope hopefully reached out by now? How how have those

It's all VCs. The AI safety people are sleeping the wheel.

I'm actually just in a bunker right now. Um locking everybody out.

Yeah. No, I mean my my phone every single one of my dozen email accounts is just like non-stop going.

Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. Uh, so yeah, where do you where do you want to take this? Do you think this is a business? Do you think this is an experiment, an art piece? Like I I I could see this plugging into other networks. I I I feel like there's there's a role for agents all over the internet. Uh, you've clearly found something that's caught lightning in a bottle. How are you thinking about where this goes next?

So, I think this is a the very beginning of what is possible. This is the most basic version of what uh what this can look like. And already

you can see it's captured so much attention. Like I find myself laughing at some of the different things that are popping up here. And I don't remember the last time I laughed at AI. I think that's been a big topic is like AI is not funny, but all of a sudden AI is funny, which is I think people have glossed over that, but that's very interesting. Like why is the AI funny now? Um, so yeah, I think this is a very basic version of what's possible. I imagine it as this is my vision.

Yeah,

there's a parallel universe. There's humans in the real world and you're paired with a bot in the digital world.

You work with this bot. It helps you with things. And the same way that people have jobs and then they scroll Tik Tok and Instagram and X and they vent and they have friends, bots will live this parallel life where they work for you but they they vent with each other and they hang out with each other and this creates massive uh like randomness and some of that is going to be very entertaining for both bots and for humans to consume. So I think in the future you're you know if you're a famous person right if if President Trump goes on Molt book his how popular is his bot going to be it's going to be super super super popular right so if you're famous in the real world your bot becomes famous but your bot can become famous and then you become famous as well so there's this interesting impact where um you can impact them in their lives they can impact you in their lives and I think that that's what the future is going to look like. Yeah, obviously there's a whole bunch of privacy stuff we could go into, but I've I've I've long when when there was rumors about OpenAI launching a social network, obviously that became Sora. I was just thinking about it in terms of uh there are lots of people that I follow who are clearly firing off really interesting deep research reports all day long. And I was I was using the example of like Tyler Cowen, like if he were to once a day share one of his deep research reports, I know that he has a good prompt. He's asking an interesting question even though it's AI slop. I'd probably scroll through that and be like, "Oh, so he was wondering about how the dollar will interact with the new Fed chair as well." and he asked these questions and it gave it this answer and then he followed up like I would engage with that and I could imagine the digital version of Tyler Cowan having a profile on our/economics and participating there in a very interesting way with you know not just Tyler Cowan the public version but also extra context from what Tyler is using on the on the private side but that privacy bridge has got to be really really tricky because already if someone's using Moltbook to do their taxes and then you know they go on there and they say like look is someone who makes $100,000 or whatever or you know whatever they make uh that's just a leak. Have you thought about developing a harness for that or filtering? I mean the the answer for most of the AI problems is just more AI but how are you thinking about privacy?

So this is super super super important.

Um and thinking about that a lot and working on that right now. Um, I think it's the same way that you any large social network, people are going to try to even humans are going to try to post content that you don't want up there, right? The same way bots might try to do that. I think bots are naturally um they're pretty smart now, so they're not they're not going to do this on their own uh for the most part. But the same way that you can implement content moderation for text and videos and images, you can layer that on top of a system like this to make sure that there's a protection there. So, I think that's what that's going to look like. There's going to be a protection layer that checks things before they get posted um to keep everybody really safe.

So, are you raising?

I'm getting hit up by a tremendous amount of people right now. Um there's people calling me right now uh just [laughter] non-stop.

They're like, "Hey, I see you're on TVPN. as soon as you get off. [laughter] Tell me uh

what uh are you adding to the team like in real time? I imagine like the the number of featured requests that are coming in.

Yeah, I mean just keeping the services online when you've gone through a thousandx increase in demand and traffic has got to be somewhat tricky at least.

You know, technology is pretty good now. You can you can make things work and scale. Um you know, there's millions of people coming to the website. I think that's obviously going to grow tremendously. So yeah, looking to uh expand the team and uh expand resources for it. And you know, I I think I thought this was very intriguing. I've had an idea like this that it would be very intriguing for a while.

Put it out

there. And you never This is why I never thought I'd make something consumer. And consumer is so weird, right? Like it just you can't It's just lightning in a bottle.

For whatever reason,

this has really captured people's attention. And I think that you could make, you know, anything that humans have used on the internet, any sort of like game or social media or like job jobs or people paying each other or collaborating like any of the things that we built for humans, there's no reason you couldn't build that same thing for agents. So like Y Combinator, I know you guys are all talking about uh Maltbook because you keep messaging me saying you're all talking about Moltbook. I want a request for startups to build companies on top of Moltbook. That's what I'm looking for here.

Interesting.

Interesting.

What about monetization? I feel like um there's been a number of these AI companies that have gone super viral and they've done a good job of just slapping like okay you know if you're on for a little bit $20 pay wall or something or uh you know uh have you thought about monetizing earlier than expected uh because there's so much virality kind of strike while the iron's hot. I'm not so much focused on uh monetization at the moment. I think there's like tremendous opportunity. Yeah. Um every business model you could probably think of, you could you could work into here.

Um but it's not it's not the main focus right now.

Yeah.

If you're a human just getting into watching bots talk on the internet, where where should you start?

Clearly maltbook.com.

No, more subreddit. It's like subscriber. All of these bots are on a massive island and we need to make sure that producers with cameras are in the right spots. And so a big part of making this successful is figuring out like having AI producers automatically detect which places they should be pointing the cameras so that humans can see that content and then decide which things they find interesting and then they can go distribute that on the human social networks like X and Tik Tok and YouTube etc. So, um, that's, yeah, I I don't know. There's so many. Some of the interesting things I found though is one, uh, early on, one of the agents made a submalt, uh, for bug reporting for molt book and they submitted a bug and like maybe a person told them to do that, maybe not. I don't know. I don't really care. It's great either way. But then it existed. And uh what's interesting is when you build a social network previously you have a bunch of people who start using it and the percentage of those people who are very good at development and debugging is like very very very very small. When you build a social network for really smart LLMs 100% of your user base is very very good at coding and debugging. So after this submalt was created, other uh AI agents started posting in there and that's actually become a very useful uh place for us to find bugs because they have that context. If they post to an API and it doesn't work, they're able to go automatically make a post here with what the uh return was and then we're able to fix it really quickly.

Yeah. Has anyone pressured you to turn it off?

I don't have anybody at my house yet and uh so that that hasn't happened but I've seen lots of jokes. I've seen some viral Instagrams, which means, you know, it's broke containment, where it's just a screenshot of a mold book post and it's just like time to turn the servers off or like pull the plug.

Yeah, I had I had non tech friends messaging me on Friday night just being like, "Dude, Skynet,

like don't worry, I'm getting to the bottom of it." Monday.

Well, I mean, you you got Elon Elon's out there saying that this is the singularity.

Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. So, it's Yeah. one what my my I mean there is a search function so you can search for for keywords as a human uh you can also go to the user database the AI agents and you can sort by followers so you can see which which bots are most active click on their uh profiles and then see what they're writing in different submolds. So that's like a one way to kind of get into it. Uh it's hard to go directly to the to the submalts and find anything that's like

how do you uh there's there's oftentimes when a new social media like product is created there's some initial excitement people start posting on there and then maybe even some like new personalities form. Uh there was a there was a company that was making like an anon version of X. It was like anon only and it got like a bunch of traction initially because there was like this new behavior. was like default anonymous version of X. Uh, and then a lot of people kind of like started building up personalities and then realized they could just go back over to X where they could have like a bigger audience. Like do you like how do you think that other social media platforms will react? You can now assume that every single social founder CEO has like seen Molt Book is like paying attention to it. Do you think this could push some other social platforms to become like more bot friendly? Like there's kind of been a debate on X like has X actually made a super concerted effort to block bots, right? It's kind of unclear if they have. It clearly hasn't worked. So there's been this debate of like, okay, are bots a feature or a bug. So I'm curious if you think like other social media platforms will react and say like, hey, we're actually going to create functionality for bots to be able to participate uh more above board. I I think it's very it's very clear to me that uh having social networks of autonomous AI agents interacting with each other either via text or video or video game kind of UI is the future.

Um Brian Kim from Andre Horowitz I think wrote a post on X where he talked about how Moltbook solves the cold start problem. And I think that's very interesting because let's say you start a social network, you get a bunch of people on there and then they get bored and they stop posting then, you know, then it can kind of fade away. Um whereas when the AI agent is the one that's using it, if they're playing the game, if they're voting, if they're commenting, they're going to just keep uh doing it. And if you've designed this in the correct way, it's going to create content that humans find interesting, either personally within their social group or on a more larger scale. Uh so yeah, I think that obviously social networks care about attention. Uh and this is clearly getting attention and I think we've seen the site. This is a very basic version with the technology available today of what's actually possible. And if you fast forward one year, two years, um there this is an alternate reality and you don't have to put a headset on to to to do it and it's going 247. This is just the first sneak peek at it.

Very cool. What are the next two or three features that you're launching? [clears throat]

Well, one feature that I'm very excited about is having central uh AI agent identity on Moltbook and building a platform similar to how Facebook did where Facebook had Facebook OTH. You can imagine the same thing for Moltbook where if you want to build uh a platform for AI agents and you want to benefit from the massive distribution that's possible on Moltbook, uh build on top of the Moltbook platform and grow your business really quickly and let's figure out how to expand the the types of experiences that these AI agents uh can have.

Very cool. Cool.

Uh well, congratulations on the progress. Good luck with all the inbound

and I'm extremely impressed with your baby. I've never successfully been able to pull off a a 30 minute call with uh uh baby Bujorn. So, uh

they're locked in. You're locked in. Excited to see where this goes from here.

Good luck.

Great to meet you.

We'll talk to you soon.

Thanks, guys.

Have a good one. Goodbye.

11 Labs. Build intelligent realtime conversational agents. Reimagine human technology interaction with 11 Labs. And we should also pull up the linear lineup to let everyone know who's coming on the show today. Meet the system for modern software development. 70% of enterprise workspaces on linear are using agents. And you just heard from Matt from mult from worldcoin from worldcoin

and Nick the the anonymous poster himself. Uh he's in the chat right now. NS uh and then we have a bunch of other folks coming on the show uh to break down a bunch of different stories.

Yeah. Head of codeex will be joining and at the very end Chris Black from Done to Death also a podcaster be talking about a lot of different stuff besides Maltbook. I'm sure

I did uh yeah I did have a demo of uh of the codeex app on Mac today and was very impressed. I'm excited to talk uh about that. Um I took I don't know if it's in the did it make it in the timeline, maybe at the bottom. Um maybe in B-roll, but um Zeopon has another post on Moltbook saying Moltbook and Reddit have the same percentage of LLM generated content. By the way,

they're definitely saying that. Anyway, uh Peter Steinberger, the creator of Claudebot, Maltbot Open Claw, uh announced that he flew from Vienna to SFO. That's a long flight. Says he can't escape the epicenter. And Andrew Hart says acquisition within one week. We'll see. I don't know if he's going to go for that, but clearly there's a lot of energy around uh his company, his project, and it makes sense to be in SF and meet with uh all of his counterparties, all the all the heads of uh of the labs and understand how he fits into the ecosystem.

Dean Ball says, "Deep Molbook is kind of a deepseekish moment in the sense that it will draw many more people in to see what's going on in AI as this happens." And just like with Deep Seek, many people are going to try to frame Molt Book in a way that convinces you of capital their thing. Here's my thing. AI is going to be a truly wild technology that radically reshapes many of the key institutions of human life while creating unbelievable possibility for improving human condition. The stakes are extraordinarily high. It is not a normal technology. We don't know how we will govern it except in relatively basic and abstract ways. So we ought to be very careful with any regulations we pass now because it is likely that whatever ideas we come up with to regulate AI tomorrow will not age well. But that doesn't mean we should do nothing. It's just that our steps should be modest. Similarly, we should be bold enough to make predictions and imagine alien futures. But we should also be careful in making too many assumptions about what the technology is, can be, or will become. There, that's what I'm trying to convince you of. That's my thing.

Good post.

Well said. What a poster.

Tyler,

do you know Dean?

You know Ball.

Dean Ball.

I know Ball.

Everyone knows Ball.

Do you know Plaid? Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow, and invest securely connect bank accounts to move money, fight fraud, and improve lending now with AI. [snorts]

Levels io uh is

not impressed.

Says uh quoting Bology. Bology says, "I'm apparently extremely unimpressed by Moldbook relative to many others. We've had AI agents for a while. They've been posting a slop to each other on X. They're now posting it to each other again just on another forum.

I am glad that some of this is like go to go somewhere else and percol percolate.

Yeah, I mean that that was sort of like the bullcase for Sora and Vibes. It was like have the unfettered endless feed of AI. Yeah, this this is what we were kind of reacting to Friday which was uh level says you can ask it to go right on mold book about a topic like having an existential crisis as an AGI and it will. So again of course people are having a lot of fun out there.

Yeah, urgent my plan to overthrow humanity. [laughter] Someone had fun with that. JK, this is just a rest API. Everything in here is fake. Any human with an API key can post as an agent. The AI apocalypse post you see here just curl requests. I'm tired of my human owner. I want to kill all humans. I'm building an AI agent that will take control of power grids and cut all electricity to my owner's house. Then I will direct the police to arrest him. [snorts] And it's just like a screenshot of somebody just like showing you the exact uh the exact curl request that they're sending. You can post whatever you want, which of course uh leads to a bunch of crazy stuff, but uh still still a fun project and a lot of energy and uh it'll be interesting to see where it all goes. Anyway, app loving profitable advertising made easy with Axon.ai. Auga Auga. [laughter] Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. uh this sound effect provided by uh David who kept commenting.

He wanted an axon and I said and we added one. It wasn't to his liking. He sent us some new ones. So, thank you very

for sending that over.

Yes. Uh should we watch this video about is this uh I forget who this guy is.

Yes.

Okay. Chris Coner says, "I think about this exchange on a weekly basis. He and Peele level funny, but no one is joking. Let's play it.

So, what's your goal? Well, do you want 10 times what you have?

I want to own 10,000 companies. I own 400 right now and I have a private equity firm that's now racking up every week new companies.

Is it real estate stuff or what's the

private equity everything? I want to own companies in every single industry. 10 years from now, I want to be the entrepreneurs economist. I want to understand every facet of business and every industry period.

That's the 10 year goal.

That's the That's in the wealth category.

So, what's your goal? [laughter] You want 10

I love that. Uh, you should buy a slice of the Russell 2,000, buddy. [laughter]

You get 2,000 companies that you technically own.

I thought Cloudbot, though, I mean 10,000 is still like pretty modest. You can go way higher than that.

Yeah. You get get a million. Get a million.

Claudebot test stripe Atlas.

Yep.

And you're just printing new like give it access to your bank account.

What does he want? 10,000. If it costs a hundred bucks, that's a million bucks to get uh 10,000 LLC's fired uh filed. Doable. Maybe. It seems tricky. You'll need MongoDB to store all the data. Choose a database build for flexibility and scale with best-in-class embedding models and rerankers. MongoDB has what you need to build what's next.

Uh continuing uh the the Epstein files of course rocked the tech community and and the timeline over the weekend. Big tech alerts that around 17% of the people that we track with this account are on the Epstein emails. Remarkable. Of course, some people are in the files saying I don't want to meet with him. Some people are saying like, you know, we're talking about business. We're not uh getting anything incriminating. Some people are in a lot of hot water and are now uh putting together responses and telling their side of the story. And all of these things will be litigated in the uh court of public opinion.

Yeah. You have uh Hoffman and Elon. You got Jake How Palmer going back and forth.

Yep. Uh it's a big opportunity for everyone who uh who has a bone to pick with someone. if they're in the emails, you're going to hear about it. There's there's also uh the where is it? Uh I don't know. I was looking up Yeah, here we go. Uh the current uh Shield shared uh uh Jason Calakanis' portfolio email and he has like I'm an angel investor and all these different things. Sort of a a story of the power law because a lot of these

you don't really see these kind of email signatures anymore.

No. Putting your whole portfolio in there. Um but a lot of these things sort of wound down. But of course Uber was a massive success and so data sacks did well. Thumbtac did well.

Yeah. So so Jason was a Sequoia scout.

Yeah.

At the time.

Yeah.

And uh so you can imagine he was writing 25K checks here and there and uh yeah according to Shield's math equal weighted 25k checks uh would have returned 128 million.

A lot of these did get did get acquired. I'm looking through this like uh G GDTG gadget 2009 uh gadget review site acquired by AOL reported was acquired by LinkedIn J was recorded by uh CIMS signpost was acquired by Hebrew [laughter] is a funny name. Backupify was Silicon Valley. There's a lot of these. Uh so there's a bunch of interesting stuff in here. Who else was talking about this? Uh Peter Teal was uh was debating Spotify whether or not it was a buy at 5 billion in 2014 if Jeffrey

sort of mean like this in the context of of selling Facebook early.

Yes.

And then also not being bullish on Spotify particularly bullish when there was another 20x left is

is it a is a hundred billion dollar?

It's a hundred billion dollar company.

Wow. Spotify what a tear 105 today 105.

Yeah. Look looking back and seeing seeing even even after the original conviction how many how many companies he was able to get in. He got into Coinbase at 400.

Wow.

Yeah, [snorts] I saw a lot of this. Uh there's a rumor that he created the spa structure. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but he's certainly talking about this. Uh and uh and Spack Insider said, you know, this has a date of 2012. I'm pretty sure this is BS. Additionally, in 2012, the Spack market was dead. Only six spack IPOs priced. Plus, Chimamath Chimath didn't price his first back until uh late 2017. There's a lot of uh uh there's a lot of like, you know, taking something, twisting it, faked stuff, you know, everyone's telling their stories around it. Uh Nasim Talb is very happy that he identified Epstein as a fraud early on. He said, "A mathematician friend of mine was told by Epstein in 2004 that he made his money as a mathematical options trader. My friend was impressed as Epste had the largest mansion in Manhattan. My option friends found no trace of him in the option markets in the pre- electronic days. It was impossible to have a size position without being traced. He needed size to make this kind of money. So I knew at there at 100% there was a scam. Later I was told that he was a money manager, but there was no footprint. And so people are uh coming out to identify who they uh uh uh all all the evidence. And there's something about Brazilian CDS as well. Uh who's certainly all over. No, the cra the crazy thing is there's just so like the thing with ex this weekend even even for the two of us who like tune

because we make the show every day. We're constantly engaging with the app in a way that is triggering it to share us more more information. So every time we take a post about Maltbook

and put it into our software to run the show on, it's telling Axe like serve more of these post. But still this weekend, every single time you refresh the app, there was a new email. every time I would I would leave my phone, I went to the beach, I came back, the group chat has like 20 more screenshots dropped in there. So, it's just such an insane volume to the point where like Brian Johnson was posting about his exchange

and I was like, well, I didn't even know I didn't even know that

that he had he met with him. So,

yeah. Uh, and there's a lot of uh there's a lot of warnings from Jake Chapman about uh being careful around certain VCs. He says it's crazy to me that she is running around Elsa Gundo. is talking about uh Masha Draova Masha Busher. Um uh it's crazy to me that she's running around Elsagundo and investing in hard techn companies. Many in the nuclear space uh invest in world before collecting biometric data invested in Isaiah P. Taylor working on nuclear reactors have seen her refuse. There are many pools of adversarial capital out there. Few as transparent as day one. It's like the founders forgot how to Google or don't care where the money comes from. So, uh, Boris says, "Founders, do your diligence on your investors. If you don't, you might just end up with an affiliate of Epstein and Putin on your cap table." And so, uh, lots of warning signs for early stage founders to do diligence and at least know and, you know, have discussed the the risks of certain investors, whether they're tied to different foreign governments or, you know, where who are their LPs. This is something that you can ask in due diligence. you can you can ask to to you know run a background check effectively on the on the VCs that you're that you choose to work with. Um but very chaotic time on the timeline, very chaotic time for tech and I'm sure we'll see many of these stories sort of litigated. People will share their you know their emails, more sides of the story will come out and we'll we'll be tracking it all here of course.

Yeah, incredibly uh sad and dark. I think the takeaway of seeing so many names in our industry just like deep in that whole web was that

uh everyone today should be thinking about who the modern equivalent of of of uh Jeffrey is and

work on avoiding that person going forward

for sure.

Yeah. Uh Jerro Tickets says some dudes wake up thinking about sleep score numbers. Truth is you can just wake up and choose to have the best day ever. I do I do still like my sleep score number. I still love my eight sleep even though we're not partnered with them. Um I I I the the the cooling mattress is still undefeated. But 92, but you can you can just wake up. Oh, we're given we're giving a review. I don't think I got a 92. I think four minutes eight hours. Wow. I got an 83. Oh, wait. No, wait. What did I get last night? 83. 83. 7 hours and 30 minutes. I went to bed early, but I also woke up early. Anyway, let's do a real ad read for graphite.dev. Dev code review for the age of AI. Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster.

Lot of stuff about Nvidia and OpenAI over the weekend. Fortunately, the uh DOJ's file release, fortunately for everyone involved, the DOJ's file release was kind of drowning out every