Doug O'Laughlin: Claude Code is the most magical moment in tech since the Game Boy — and Amazon will spend every dollar of that $200B

mean, this is like

Yeah,

kind of a no-brainer.

It's a no-brainer.

It's a no-brainer. As is interviewing Doug Olaflin after earnings when he's suffering from Claude Code psychosis. Welcome to the stream, Doug. How are you doing?

I'm doing wonderful. How you guys doing?

Great to see you.

Can we pull up that the video that you that John painstakingly made this morning that completely that completely flopped? I'm I'm very excited to have you on the show. It feels like uh that scene in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 which I saw where Sonic and Shadow team up and join forces uh to talk about Capex and agentic coding. Uh what what's new in your world? Is is Claude Code still the top of mind or are you still uh churning through the capex numbers from earnings?

Are you somewhat of an agent for Claude now? Like you work for Claude?

I I do actually. I think I mostly just uh move my information back and forth, you know.

I have um I have pretty much like I think of it as like my manager, you know, like it tells me what to do and then I go bring the information and I bring to my co-workers. I bring it back. Um all day I'm just on cloud code.

How many how many prompts are you running right now?

Do you have any threads going? Okay. So,

um I I have I have seven I have seven threads.

Seven that are running right now or or not running for your input.

I'm waiting waiting waiting for my input.

We'll let you get back to it.

Why don't you just have an eighth that just may

Let's talk about Yeah. orchestration. Have you played with Gas Town? Are you thinking about abstracting yourself to a higher level?

Okay. So, Gast Town is um it's pretty intense. I don't think Gaston's going to work out. I think it's going to be agent swarms.

Okay. Okay. Explain the difference between between Gas Town and Agent Swarms.

Okay. So, Gast Town is um probably of the most forwardlooking thing I've read in a lot law. He talks about how he like created this like self-healing tool process to essentially to like pass all these beads across and have like all these workers and like ways to self-repair um the agent workflow process. And I read it and I was like, dude, this is brilliant. and also [ __ ] crazy. Uh it's it's like it feels like the ravings of a madman. And then I proceeded well I was also in my madman era. Uh like before before the New Year's when you had 2x times usage I pretty much was like literally railing cloud code constantly. I think I had I think I had four 14 hour days.

Wow.

Um yeah it was it was beautiful.

It was beautiful. Okay. So talk to us about what you're actually building because you know we're we're talking about SAS apocalypse. It feels like there's a debate over build rebuild all your tools from scratch to save whatever your SAS fees are. Uh

yeah, even yesterday was notable OpenAI comes out with Frontier. Yeah. which is you look at like that you got to look at this like graphic which feels like it was made for you know a Fortune 500 CEO to kind of or management team to kind of understand it and it's like

here's more SAS to replace your other SAS right it's like you know you got the system of record down here you have a bunch of agents in between and then you've got different applications that you're using and meanwhile anthropics just like we're making a really smart digital guy that can do whatever you want.

Yeah. So I think the two there's like two really interesting ways. I think OpenAI is like the Fortune 500 selling it from the top if that makes sense and then uh Anthropic is like here's my here's your cloud code agent sell 20,000 of them. Did you see the the Asenture partnership? I think that's really interesting. So like if you're if you go back uh

there's they're doing 30,000 people at Aenture. What do you mean?

To like 30 30,000 people at a centure are going to learn how to cla code.

Oh, and then and then be deployed into different companies.

Yeah.

Who knows? Who knows?

What else would they do?

Maybe they just replace the centure.

I mean, that's that's what they're going to be doing, I think.

Okay. Wait. So, yeah. So, what do you mean? If if Accenture folks are using cloud code, wouldn't they be using it on consulting projects internally to companies? I I I think they're going to be using it internally

uh as no so they're going to be using internally and then they're going to be doing all these consulting things because if you think about it one of the issues is like

you know when you had SAS one of the biggest issues of like changing from one CRM to another was effectively being like hey everyone you're have to quit your jobs for like 10 months to figure this out. Um the impl the implementation like you'd have tons and tons of like consultants to do that and I think that that's what uh the entire partnership is. So essentially like people are going to be implementing cloud code and there's 30,000 people at a centric who's going to do it. And then on the other side you have Frontier which is like the Fortune 500 way of being like here's your plan come to us and we'll build this whole thing blah blah blah. So yeah

but is is is reimplementing your CRM really the lowest hanging fruit for America's greatest companies? It can't possibly there must be new ideas, new problems to solve, new tools to build. like why are we just going to shuffle the chips around the board instead of like doing something productive?

Okay, so I think the system of record refresh is going to be really awesome because um you know like the big I mean it honestly does feel kind of boomer if you think about it. It's like the biggest data now. Everyone can have the big data now. Um, but I think the the automation that you've always dreamed of is actually going to happen and the system of record is just going to essentially have hooks out to all these other things they're going to build on top of it which is mostly like you know the frontier thing. Yeah.

And essentially like all the information work is just going to be like all on the agent and everything else is going to be like place where it lives and is stored for fsies. So um

instead of me having someone uh let let me use my personal stack as semi analysis we use HubSpot for example. the salesto or whats

how many more podcast should Dylan do this month if we want to hit our goal

that's totally different we don't actually have like our our like you know the big yeah sure how many more podcasts [ __ ] like that right um I could just vibe code it would just be like hey can you run this analysis for me and in a perfect futuristic world it'll go into the CRM pull all the information of the all of our inbounds make it be like hey uh the day after Dylan goes on a podcast there's like 25 people who who come in the conversion rate is X you could price it at this um Dylan quit your you know stop working and effectively just like hit the podcast you know like yeah exactly so so

you could do this with anything though like just information man like it's it's

it's going to be pretty sick but I think um all the SAS companies are going to essentially just become hooks for all the crap they built on top of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you see Jensen uh yesterday was was kind of defending some companies like SAP and Service Now and saying, "Hey, if I was a if I was a really smart humanoid uh out doing work in the world and I needed a screwdriver, would I just invent a new screwdriver or would I just take one off the shelf?" And so that was like his defense. Tyler here was uh took took the other side of it and just said uh there's going to be a lot of situations where especially in a software only environment

it's easier to just build a very specific workflow that you need that you would have gotten from a SAS provider versus you know you don't need to actually rebuild the entire platform.

Yeah. I think uh we're going to be building a lot of screwdrivers like things like the thing that's important is like

okay you're not going to rent a truck, right? Like like you're not going to build your own truck, but your own screwdriver 100%.

Like like you're doing this big ginormous job. You need a hammer. You be like, "Okay, pull it out of my belt." Okay, but you're not going to be like, "Uh, I'm about to move 700 tons of like here to here. Uh I need to rent a truck." You're not going to build the truck.

And so that's what I think the system records are going to look like. They're going to look like places where like actual data that cannot be like like cannot be vibived effectively like what's your inventory cannot have any [ __ ] hallucinations right like your ERP but all of that will just be hooks for everything else because like all the information is just like pulling retrieving making the correlation running the the charts like fixing that all the time

but then but then

how do you square the fact that a system of record is way less sticky if you have agents that can work around the to switch you over to a different system of record. Like that still ends up putting massive pricing pressure.

So, so to be clear, I don't think it's good for everyone. Like I think uh my my my favorite analogy of this is like there actually is a very old school type of software that's like existed for a long time. Uh all the [ __ ] on mainframes, it's all it's all out there. Yeah. Um and you know, like funny enough, mainframes still grew like 6% a year or whatever. someone has the real number from like 2002 to to 2020.

It's crazy.

So, like they're they're going to grow, but it's just going to be like a very different

vision of the world that I don't think people are ready for.

Yeah.

Um and and the adjustment period is the big problem because all the stocks are priced like they're not going to be mainframes. And

and and also just for context, mainframes are like, hey, there's one of each company now.

Yeah.

There's not there's not like 10.

Yep.

There's one each. So I think with all these all these whether you're a system of record or you're you know some vertical software you're going to need to show

insane revenue growth in a a truly AI native product otherwise investors I think are going to continue to not be able to create a super compelling narrative why why you should own it during this period of uncertainty.

Yeah. Um, I mean, pretty much what happens, and we're going to go like investor brain, when anything goes X growth, uh, the multiple goes massively down.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Eight times earnings. Can you talk a little bit more about what you're actually coding, what you're building, like what the software is because it from the demos that I've seen that you've posted, it feels much more like you have an agent that can do knowledge retrieval, data transformation, build dashboards, charts, and and like knowledge work as opposed to truly replacing software tools at this point. But do you have you built anything that's like longived and and runs like daily or is like something you keep revisiting because it's now a piece of software that does a job.

So the cloud code commits the cloud code commits is now software that lives and and runs every single day. That's like a scraper, right? And then like that that like lives in a database and that that will run forever. There's like a lot of other tracking price data tool stuff like a lot of the scraping that we're like

that is not like publicly available like we do like a lot of that like we had a data team just do that and now effectively we can like really accelerate that so everyone can do that.

Sure. Um there are other like little things that I think are like heruristics like little skills of like I have blind spots that I consistently make over and over and I'm like hey I know this blind spots an issue blah blah blah you should like consider this in this case.

Um I I don't think it's like the galaxy brain software and we're very far from there because if you actually play with these tools a lot context rot is real.

Yeah. So

I is it is but is it how fast is it getting better because it feels like we're seeing the meter graph

scary fast

scary fast

scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary scary so um I started vibe coding with uh claude 4

and it just wasn't u or sorry opus 4 on cloud code and it just could not oneshot websites in the way that 4.5 and 4.6 six can and if it just marginally improves from here, it feels like why would I pay for like any kind of UI UX if it's just going to be generated at a good enough quality?

Yeah. How did you process the new models this week? 46 53. What's the review?

If you don't if you can't immediately notice the difference between 45 and 46, start polishing your resume. You are cooked.

Yeah. Yeah. You just got automated by an agent.

You got

um I think 46 was a little disappointing if I'm honest with you.

Mhm.

I I think it might have been Sonic 5.

Oh, that's what people are saying. That's the conspiracy theory, right? But what what does that mean?

Um the original Sonic 5 leaks were that it's like as good as Opus 4.5 but with 1 million context window and specifically trained for agent swarms.

Sure. So wait, yeah, but practically does that just mean like same quality but faster, cheaper at least for a topic.

And then they and they make more money.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Better margins. How are the margins looking for the the labs right now? There's been there was a bunch of like FUD around it, but it seems like from all the leaks it's been like 50 60 70%. Pretty good.

Yeah, if if you X all the free users, it's always really good, right? But uh honestly, Anthropic has no free users or like on a relative basis. So their margins are ironically like like kind of on a like to like basis kind of not as good as you think.

Yeah. Um can you uh break down a little bit more of the thesis of the claude code is an inflection point uh article what what what the key takeaway who you're speaking to um what update you wanted to share and then I want to go into some of the some of the push back and your response to that.

Yeah sure. Um, so first I think the thing that makes me really excited is the first time since Shain of Thought I feel like we have a new scaling that feels very very different and hardcore and I can actually see my entire life dayto-day change.

Mhm.

Um, I think I can expect some version of a cloud code harness to be effectively all my information work from now till the future.

Mhm.

I am a daily user. I was not a daily dailies before and I expect to continue to be one.

And that's kind of what happened with the the reasoning models. It went from like you could ask it stuff but it might hallucinate to like the answers are good like you can pretty much rely and there's going to be citations and like it's going to be 99.999 like% like usable for things. So you just have a question, you get that maybe not great at certain things, but in general like it delivered on the initial like chat experience that I think a lot of people were looking for and then they became Yeah. Um

how much uh do you think Anthropic cares more about winning in consumer than they've let on to date?

Uh no, I don't think so.

Mhm.

Everyone uh everyone who works there is exactly like like what you think it is. Yeah,

they're exactly who they say they are.

Yeah, they're software singularity build.

Yeah. And then I think co-work is what they're really excited about.

Sure. Makes sense.

Uh yeah. What what this push?

So they're not even they're not even

they're not even thinking about a scenario where a bunch of people are using Claude in the work in a work setting and say, "Hey, this is pretty great and yeah, Chad has ads. I'm happy to pay 20 bucks a month. I'll use it personally." Because I just think there's like an iPhone like I think the game to get to like three billion users is like over when you just look at the traction of like Gemini and chatbt and the fact that norm normal people aren't caring that much about the nuance maybe that don't have that much to automate in their life but there's like an iPhone size market like the iPhone wasn't the first smartphone to launch and it's possible like when I see this like

when I see this like the the Super Bowl ad the sort of like trust nuke I was calling it right just like, hey, like it's really funny. They're like, you know, uh uh rage baiting Open AI, but at the same time, they're just destroying like trust around ads and LLMs potentially like permanently, right? Uh because people even when they start seeing ads that are more like display ads, they'll start thinking, well, like was the result influenced too? You know, it just like it hurts the trust. And so I think there I think my my theory is that any product that like really catches on in the workplace could very well trickle over into into life and Anthropic could someday have a pretty big, you know, they could have like a Netflix- size subscriber base for people that just want an adfree AI experience.

Yeah, that sounds completely right to me.

But you're saying, but your point is like it's just secondary to them. and they're like it's a nice to have but like we don't that's not that's not our intention. I

I think okay so singularity pill but I also I think you have to pay for the singularity and I think it's going to be the enterprise that does it.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean the other the other take on like you could wind up being like the Apple uh and like the premium you know privacy focused or you could wind up being like the duck duck go which was like you know Yeah. It was a counter to Google but it never got to any meaningful scale. Right.

Yeah. But I still think I still think OpenAI is the Apple like like Apple was synonymous with smartphones when it really took off like like uh what is the other smartphone? I can't

maybe you could argue this is like a Blackberry. Yeah. I I can't name it. Yeah. Um well like Blackberry, right? Um

it it was known for work.

Yeah.

And then obviously like it swapped over. So I still think OpenAI is like the cognitive reference and honestly uh 5.3 cooks.

Yeah. Uh, faster or just better or both?

Faster and better.

Faster and better. Uh, okay. Talk about 5.2 token efficiency. Run was pushing back on the article saying you making you're making the assu assertion that 5.2 token efficiency ruins long horizon planning and yet 5.2 tops the meter chart for long horizon planning. Halfbaked. What's the explanation there?

Didn't someone completely mock that argument? Um, but he's kind of a he's like Sorry, I got to find the guy. But it's like

I don't know what task is being done here. Like is are they the same hardness?

Yes. Did you just spam it to infinity and like you finish like a sufficiently long task to completion versus like um

like okay let's just say we have two kids taking the SAT and one does a better job and finishes first and one does like almost as good of a job and took seven times this long and you're like wow that one's the smart kid.

Yeah.

No, dude doesn't make any sense.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. An elegant solution delivered faster is uniformly better, you know. 100%.

That makes sense.

Yeah. And so if you spam more tokens like and you win and you're like, "Oh, look, I mobbed them." And it's like, "Dude, what if you just use less tokens?"

I think the benchmark is supposed to be for for they they have they have a reference class of of projects that are supposed to take x amount of time. They would take a human developer six hours. And then they have all the models uh compete. And if you can compete the six-hour task, then you get put at the six hour mark. It's not did you run for six hours. It it it's so so so it could be like implement a a CRM product or you know write a very complicated you know database or something. It would take you know a talented software developer six hours, two hours, one hour and they have different tasks and then you're trying to climb that hurdle.

Oh yeah. And then it's okay. It climbs higher and higher and higher. I think I think that's loosely it's because because obviously you could just say okay just reasoning count to 1 billion and just go as slow as and it works for days and that's not impressive the meter the yeah I mean it's okay so yeah you're right the the different the scaling thing but like

okay so one the other thing I was doing like now that we have vibe coding available to everyone you can just have it do the same task and do like ABC like I I've been doing like a lot of internal benchmarking like you could everyone could benchmark guys like um dude Codeex 5.2 took so long and just never built for me.

And it's like all the codeex hype during like it just never worked for me, man. Like it never it never oneshot projects like Opus 4.5 did. And I'm just like this feels like complete foot. Um but that being said,

Codex 5.3 cooks. Like I think I take everything back about

about 5.2 for 5.3.

Nice. Total reversal. Classic AI narrative. Just day by day complete switching of the narrative. uh talk about the npm downloads uh because you said that you're now scraping them every day trying to understand how many commits on GitHub are related to cloud code and and the push back from rune was that this counts npm downloads as authoritative when cla numbers are hugely inflated because GitHub actions does automatic cloud code download every time continuous integration CI runs versus codeex compute cloud so maybe it's not apples to apples what's more nuance on the the the fast takeoff of cloud code because honestly when you said 20% of commits by the end of the year I was like that feels extremely low. I would expect like 70% and I would expect codeex to be at 30% and no more human commits because it's working.

So I um I wanted to make sure we had like a high standard like a high 95% plus. Um I don't think like sure if it continues to grow on a week basis like yeah it's like you know 100% by June or something like that.

Well there's also the the fact that like you could be writing code and still just like almost be using cloud code as like your llinter or like your your interface to GitHub and if there's an abstraction layer there that people adopt, you're going to see the commits go through the roof even if there's still a human in the loop meaningful.

Look look look look I'm not going to pretend like the cloud code commits thing is like the cleanest way ever. There's a lot of way there's a lot of ways to [ __ ] the data. For example, um people who use who you could just say don't do this and and won't do it. Number two, like private on a ratio is like five times bigger.

That matters way more. Um, and then like I I also think that like the way you consume it, like this doesn't count for cursor. People have been clearly using AI for like a long while and it doesn't show up. It this is just the example I can like say like, hey, chart goes up really quickly.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool.

And it's not perfect. I look

I it's it's a data set that I could create in a relatively short amount of time. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know. Seems pretty cool.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it is.

Should we talk about Amazon?

Yeah. Yeah. Let's move over to hyperscalers. Wait.

Reaction was the number two low.

Yeah. We're not taking it seriously. Yeah.

Billion was crazy. That was crazy to me.

Okay. Why?

Yeah. That was really shocking.

Um, you know, we do a lot of data center tracking and we do a lot of accelerator tracking and uh we were too low.

Okay. Are they are they are they trying to play some sort of hype game where they're throwing out the biggest number and they're not actually even going to be able to buy enough equipment to spend it even if they are signaling to the market we're going to be hearing like well we wanted to buy this many Nvidia chips but we couldn't get them or we have a delay at this data center because of regulation and so uh they're just trying to project strength because they're sort of behind on the AI narrative a little bit. They don't have the big position that Microsoft does in open AI. they don't have, you know, you know, a deep mind level team and so they're saying we're going to go biggest on the dollar front, but then maybe they don't deliver on it or do you think at the end of the year we'll be like, "Yeah, they spent 200 billion."

I think at the end of the year they're going to be like, "Yeah, they spent 200 billion.

Let's go."

They they are the single biggest uh provider of power in the entire world. I think

like the incremental and the AWS like supply chain can ramp a lot quicker than anyone else. And every every example

that we track in the data center like the data center team, they are on time and can scale to like levels that are crazy.

Yeah.

Like Reneer's ramp is just like out of this world fast compared to everyone else. Every other gigawatt project is essentially delayed and they're going to be like ish on time.

Wow. So isn't that extremely just like good for Amazon? Like they're properly positioned. They're properly transitioning. Like they Yeah. like who knows what happens to the rest of but eventually this thing is just like part of the

we were talking earlier like Jasse didn't exactly paint this like incredibly exciting vision and share like hey we you guys are actually underestimating demand still even if you're bullish on AI you're underestimating demand and we're in a position

to actually try to get a more accurate read here and that's why we're investing

yeah and it's funny because they could have said one thing that would have made an ad all better and they'd be like, "Yeah, we see high 20s." And like the stock would have ripped,

but they're like, "We continue to project to see this level of growth."

Mhm. What percentage what percentage of the 200 billion do you think will actually flow to Nvidia? Because Nvidia is rallying today. That's why we're wearing white suits, but it didn't rally immediately in after hours.

Um, I think a meaningful amount.

I I definitely cannot disclose what somebody analysis thinks.

Yep. But um I think they're going to run out of tranium be and and the answer is like what's the biggest amount of supply chain that's like locked up? It's it's it's Infidium.

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

Can you get uh Mcronone a free semi analysis plan

because he came out this week with his big new initiative 30 million euros for AI research. France is going to be the home of of research.

How do you think all the hyperscalos will respond? You you

you know what's crazy is people have been trying to do a lot of work in France for a long time cuz they have this giant uh nuclear power plant. Yeah. It's kind of stranded.

Weird.

And um no one uses it and like everyone wants to be like, "Dude, I can get a gigawatt here." And then they like try to start building and they're just like, "Yeah, this is never going to happen. I'm just going to go back to United States." Even though United States is like all [ __ ] up, it's like I can I can start there. And they're like, "No, no, no, no. We'll start in like 5 years." Yeah.

And I can think of two specific projects

that essentially did the same thing was like, "Oh my god, all this France data center power and then like they started like never mind."

Yeah.

Uh why do you think Grock is climbing the charts right now? Any any insight? It's like number three after get free cash and after chat GBT in the overall app store.

The iOS app store.

I dude actually one um this tells you how locked in I've been with COD code. I had no idea.

Yeah,

you're so locked in with Claude researching

the AI race that you

It's just interesting. I mean, I I I you know, the the app store is based on like acceleration, but you know, the the the Grock hype cycle of like, you know, let's push all the Twitter users or the X users there. Like that's sort of already happened. Like I don't know how this is happening because there isn't much hype about the

Yeah, it's happening off X.

Yeah. And a lot of people were like, "Yeah, like you can talk to Anie and Valentine, but like is that really popular?" Might be. I don't know.

Singularity.

The real singular lonely people.

Oh my god.

Maybe.

Um

I I did see a video of uh like the Stormlight Archive thing and that I feel like uh like hit a broader audience in terms of video generation and I think video generation like

that always kind of wins. Yeah. Um, we actually did an analysis while you need to be bullish on the Disney Open AAI deal.

I think so.

We we've seen we've seen the Nano Banana bump with Gemini.

Yep.

You and and this feels like it could be on an entirely different level.

Yeah.

Well, you know, my favorite thing is um

Gemini wasn't what actually like made it rip. It was a banana.

Yeah.

Like the ratio uh like really improved in terms of OpenAI to Gemini. uh like way before and then like generally like slightly helped but I would say it's like 90% is banana banana no you can you yeah you can just share an image and it's immediately apparent what is going on as a unique capability that you can't get anywhere else they've cornered the market specifically on like the image editing not just the diffusion but the like being able to take a photo change the background and have it actually look like your face or have the text look great like it was it was a unique unique product really beyond a model Yeah.

Oh. Oh, this is by the way this is my final steaming hot take in COD code. Uh the reason why you should actually pay attention so much is because this is the first time like

image models essentially always gain share, video models always gain share like Studio Giblly moment and then obviously chatbt. This is the first like new moment.

Yeah.

It's a a new modality being the agent and it's like actually kicking off.

Yeah. I mean, how important do you think the co-work like a desktop app mobile functionality is to that? Because like the like you could have truly magic.

Chad has some insight. A lot of people using Grock video to compete for a $1 million contest.

Oh, that's right. Cont. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So, it's free cash and then free money. The top two apps in the top three give you cash. Uh that is a good fact check. Thank you, Chad. Um but uh yeah my my question about like like can you have a Studio Giblly like moment if you have to open up a terminal just because there are so many normies that would just will never open the terminal no matter how magical the you know AI god is behind the terminal it's just too much to go type one line of command

that's why co-work and codeex are going to like probably be what actually happens I think it's really fun to like play around in the like whatever 1% % adopter and I'm really enjoying it but I just don't think

like like yeah it's going to be co-orker Codex and Codeex is actually pretty good. Codex is I think a slightly more polished experience than Coworker.

Yeah. Uh last question for me take me on the journey of what's going on with Microsoft what you predicted the the how that's changed what how their strategy has changed like give me the the proper way to understand Microsoft these days.

Yeah Microsoft's not in the race bro. Why? They are.

They they I know, but they're getting owned.

They have all of the IP. I I I don't I agree with you. I don't understand why it's not like, oh, 5.3 launches. Microsoft's announcing it the same day and it's actually integrated and people are using it like on day one. It takes time.

Yeah, they it's a skill issue.

Yeah,

it's clearly something's going on. And and honestly, the thing that makes me most bearish that is the fact that Satia is like I'm not the CEO anymore. I'm the I'm the product manager of co-pilot because I'm so boned if I don't get this figured out.

Yeah.

Like you could argue it is the mo it is now existential. He's decided like hey my CEO job is getting this one thing right otherwise we're screwed. And that is um

kind of worrying.

It does feel like they could potentially it feels like

the pullback at the beginning of last year kind of the the the the quick pause is now looking silly in the context of Amazon coming in now and saying, "Yeah, everybody's on board now."

Yeah,

we'll see.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I think um they have the most to lose.

Mhm.

What about GPU utilization? Brad Gersonner was hosting CNBC today, which was very cool. Uh talking about how, you know, in the do buildout, the the dark fiber was something only like 7% of fiber that was being laid was actually being used. It was like obvious even at the time that

and yet now we're seeing GPU utilization rates you know

maxed out.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think um that's a pretty good counterpoint to anyone who's like ah whatever. Like at this point um H100 pricing has massively firmed up. B200 pricing definitely has super firmed up. And like hey there's uh there's clearly demand. I mean, you know, whatever they're doing on the other side of it, that's like uh that's the customer's issues. But like I I mean, I still think like like honestly, man, the Codex or sorry, uh my brain's all messed up. Uh uh cloud code has been the most magical moment in technology for me in like my entire time, I think.

Yeah.

It just feels awesome, man.

The Game Boy,

dude. This is better than Game Boys for me. I'm an information addict, though. Yeah, makes sense.

I I am. So,

well, we appreciate you taking the time to come chat with us and writing about it and everything that you do. If you're listening, go pop on semi analysis.

Sign up for the 10 million a year plan.

Do the million year plan.

Doug's phone number. You can text him plan.

He You actually can actually.

Yeah,

I know. I know.

You should just do it though.

I mean, and it's underpriced. You're giving it away at at taking away your time from your all your different agents. So, you got to price it in

right.

That's right. You know, my manager will hate that.

Have a good rest of your day. Have a good weekend. We'll talk to you soon. Cheers.

Goodbye.

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