Doug DeMuro on Ferrari's electric car reveal, the Aston Martin F1 disaster, and why classic car values aren't coming down

you about Lambda. Lambda is the super intelligence cloud building AI supercomput for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands. And without further ado, we have Doug Demiro in the R Street Wing Room. Welcome to the TBNN Ultradom. How you doing, Doug?

I'm good. How are you guys doing?

We're doing fantastically. Uh, great to see you back here.

I'm so I'm so glad to have you back here. Uh, I I absolutely love this car pod. Congratulations on all the progress there. I mean, it's the number one car podcast in the world, and it deserves to be so because

the number one in our hearts.

It's I I'm going to be listening to it on my drive home today. Uh, it drops every Friday, correct? through Friday morning. That is true. Yes.

Go subscribe uh to that. Uh but we wanted to have you on to discuss so many other things in the car world. I think we should start with the interesting crossover from the tech world to the world of Ferrari with the Johnny IV, the Johnny, the new

the new Luch. Uh so take us through your reactions to the actual design.

You already ordered five of them, right?

As soon as electric, you were like, I'm in. I am as skeptical as as as basically every car enthusiast that I know is. Yeah.

Uh take you through my thoughts. I mean, well, first off, they haven't shown the the vehicle, right? They've shown the interior, which in itself is kind of interesting and makes me a little anxious. Who shows the interior before showing the vehicle, right? Only if you're really kind of nervous about how the vehicle

It was such a weird layout, too, seeing like the the floating stuff and it wasn't even in like a shape of a car. And there's people there's people in Italy that, you know, sit outside the Ferrari factory and take videos on their phones and I've seen some of those, you know, kind of scouting videos and it looks like incredibly rough. It looks like a It looks like a Subaru or a Hyundai.

Although Ferrari, more than any other brand, goes to great lengths to disguise their uh production cars when they're when they're still doing testing for that exact reason. Yes, there are people who post up at the factory waiting for them to slip up or whatever. And so Ferrari has historically made some really bizarre uh pre-production cars to try to actually fake out those people. So I'm not entirely convinced that the the really rough looking look of the you know the the spy photo car that we've all seen is real. It looks like a station wagon. Um but obviously I'm skeptical just in general of this like an electric sports car. The ones that have come out have not been wellreceived. They have not sold well. In some cases, automakers who were about to release an electric sports car dialed it back and canceled the whole project uh you know sometimes months before they it was supposed to be on sale. So, we'll see how it goes.

So, strategically talk about the talk about the interior though because to me to me it looks like uh in general I'm a fan of coming in having some fresh eyes on the interior of a car. There's a bunch of kind of like individual ideas from what we've seen that look cool like little things you can pull to start the engine or whatever your engine. Um there's a lot of elements that are nice, but at the same time it looks like somewhat like it's like oh you did like a resto mod on but it's an EV. like it just it feels it feels um I didn't come away feeling like it was

it's an interesting thing though like it's a totally new world for Ferrari and so I'm willing to give them a lot of latitude here because I think they're probably going after new buyers and different buyers and I also think they're really trying to they're not trying to appeal to the people like us who are like into cars and are and are probably have some experience with Ferrari before. I think this is this is a big play on China. This is a big play on young people. Um, they're really trying to make this make sense to a kind of a different audience. So, I'm actually I didn't mind the interior for that from that perspective. It certainly is not very Ferrari like, but I think that was the point. I think they could have kept their in in-house design team, you know, designing it if they had wanted it to stay like it like their cars look. And I think this was kind of intentionally a left field kind of thing. And so, I I'm willing to give them latitude there. What I'm more anxious about is how the car looks, how it performs, and especially how it feels. Because I think a lot of the reason people buy Ferraris is because of the way that they feel. And that's where I think this car could have problems.

Do you think it could actually sell well in China even with this fresh take on design when every foreign manufacturer has been getting slaughtered?

Foreign manufacturers are getting slaughtered in China. But you have to assume that even in China which doesn't have the brand belovedness for some of the western brands that we have. You have to assume though that the Ferrari brand is still nonetheless

both popular and you know makes people excited even in China. It's not like any Chinese companies have emerged as a replacement for Ferrari. Even though there have been many Chinese companies that have emerged as replacements for Tesla and Mercedes-Benz and all that. Ferrari is still this globally known beloved brand. And so I do think that they have they have possibility there. Porsche sells relatively well in China despite how how hard it has been for other automakers to get in there.

Yeah. How how far do you think or how deep do you think the Ferrari team is into the development of this electric vehicle? Because didn't Lamborghini just pull out of their EV project? It feels like there's a different world where the the electrification of the powertrain is much more like choosing between a V12 and a V8. And it's just like uh it's just an option almost. And maybe they'd be afraid of doing that because it would reveal 5% of the buyer selecting that. But they make all this big like oh it's a it's a its own car instead of just being like yeah the Roma now you can get it electric if you want that. We'll make 10 of them.

Well it's an interesting thing. I other automakers have tried to do that. Maserati has an electric version of the Gran Turismo that has been a horrible failure. Um I think that I was surprised to see Lamborghini cancel theirs uh at this stage. Um kudos to them. They realize their buyers don't want it and uh in in some ways you have to wonder if Lamborghini is kind of emerging as more the enthusiast brand and for which which historically has not been true, right? Lamborghini is the brand for people who want to show off and Ferrari is the enthusiast brand. Well, maybe that's changing a little bit. Ferrari, I think also would make the argument that they have always been the leader. They have always been the one to push to the next step, the design leader. People say their stuff is ugly. They say their, you know, the cars are too powerful, etc. That and and they have always kind of been the first to take some steps. And I think

like, oh, we're too powerful. We'll put a V6 in our Halo car. I think that they're I so I think that they're sitting here thinking, you know what, we're Lambo might cancel it and Pin and Firina isn't selling theirs very well and all this stuff, but we are Ferrari and we if if anybody's going to be able to do this, it's going to be us and we are going to lead this thing and we're going to kill it. I bet that's the mindset uh in in Italy. I bet you they're nervous though.

Yeah.

No no electric sports car has succeeded yet and and many have tried.

Uh TYON doesn't really count as a sports car. More sedan. No, I think because it's a sedan, it is certainly a sporty car, but because it's a sedan and adding that level of practicality, it's not really the same thing. Especially because Porsche tried to go electric with their sports car and over the last few months has repeatedly been walking back the actual desire to do that to the point where it's now kind of starting to become clear there may not even be an electric version of the next box.

Is the Mission X, Mission E, the the the F80 competitor, the W1 competitor just completely canled at this point?

Yeah, that's gone. I don't know if they've officially said that, but yes, that is gone. They're not going to do an electric over.

Are they going to do a new Halo car? It feels like we're so far. I I had the 918 on a poster as a kid and I've been waiting for the next version for my entire life.

I was I got career GT sitting right up here. There we go.

They are going to do one. But I think that they had committed significant resources to going electric with Mission X

and it didn't happen and they had to kind of scramble back to the drawing board and and developing a hyperart. It takes real effort. Um you got to get a lot of things right because you're only selling a few hundred of them. And so I I think it's coming but it's still

so if Porsche goes back to the drawing board and they're say okay we there's no longer the pressure to go electric with the hypercar. uh h how how enthusiasts can they go at that tier? Can they do manual? Can they do a V12? Like can they learn from the SP3? Like what what can they like what do they have the freedom to actually pull off the shelf?

I think that Porsche is a much more conservative company than I wish they were.

I would be very surprised if it has a manual.

I would be very surprised. I'm certain that it will be a hybrid in some capacity. Um, I'd be very surprised if it was a larger engine than a V8. The fact that Career GT ever existed, analog V10, like that was an unbelievable thing. That was a moment in time. Like Porsche, I think, is still worried. They have never really in the modern eras, hypercars are automatic hybrids. And I think Porsche is afraid of of deviating from that because they know that that works and it worked with 918. I actually had a call with some Porsche people yesterday and I was pleading my case for a manual Carrera GT type successor and I just think it's just a tough it's a tough cell. It's a tough It's a cell. They don't

Is it Is it though? Is it a tough cell for the the people that are actually

Well, they have a they have a halo car in the GT3 RS in some ways that sells the 911s and also the Boxster looks like the Cayman looks like somewhat similar to the GT3 RS. So, it's not the R8 pulling down to the A4.

I just I just the the the the people we we have a friend that gets every orders every Halo car from every brand. And if you and if you asked him like, "Hey, would you rather have like a hybrid?"

Yeah.

Or or something that's like more more a successor to the Carrera uh CGT. Like what? He would he would obviously want the

the more manual CGT the more engaging.

The automakers I think are also really aware of the fact that like hybrid is the future

and they really need to make sure that the super the hyper car which gets all the press

brings technology to the lineup that then trickles down. Like I think in a way even to this day the 918 Spider kind of opened the door for the 911 to go hybrid and for the TYON to exist because it was like

if the hypercar can do it then I promise you and your 911 can do it. And I think going back doing a full I yes I think it would sell if they did another V10 manual hypercar be amazing but it's it's kind of an anacronism. I also think Porsche is a little bit anxious about the number of people who have 2 million bucks that are actually willing to buy those cars. My argument is they're doing it right now at auctions. Like million, F50s are selling for 8 million. It's not like you're getting a bunch of cheap used car buyers who are like, I want manuals back and I only buy used cars. Like these are people with real money who would buy them, but I think it's just easier to find buyers for automatic hybrids. They have crazy, you know, numbers horsepower and acceleration and all that.

Yeah.

Uh what's what's talk about the overall auction market and what's going on there? I was uh spent the weekend in in Montana with a few guys that have Porsche dealerships and they were speculating themselves, but I'm curious what your take is.

It's been it's been a bit of a ride the last few months. Uh I've been shocked at watching some of the cars increase as they have. cars that were I some there are cars that have gone up 60 70% in in what appears to be three four months and you look at auction results and it was one result and now it's four results and it's like wow so this is where the market is like are some of these cars gone forever I had to bump my insurance up on my career JT I'm going to bump it up again I'm like getting anxious to drive it like you start to think that like some of these cars that you lusted after as a child might be gone forever and and it doesn't feel like a bubble either Um, I just get the sense that we've all been hoping the other shoe would drop and these cars would fall and that's not what happened after CO, right? They went up, they stopped climbing, but nothing ever came back down. F40s never got cheap again. F50s never got cheap again. Courage never got cheap again. Um, and I just don't get the sense that that's going to happen again. I I think that there is a real interest in in collectors and enthusiasts in keeping these cars

and it's just going to keep driving values up.

And isn't isn't some of this like generational, right? because you're seeing maybe some more softness in in the in classics and then some of these more like you know somebody that grew up with Carrera GT on a poster like they're not reaching for

classic cars anymore and so this entire there was an entire window of cars that were in hindsight like pretty reasonably priced because the people that were kids when they were being released didn't have the money and then as soon as you they had the wealth then all of them it just immediately go.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a FOMO effect among those people. Once they see values of a car go from 1 to 2 million, they think to themselves, "Oh crap, I got to buy it now before it goes to 4 million." And that helps push values up, too. But yes, I mean, you saw that big that big auction in Florida where they all those bizarre colored cars came out. You know, you saw David Lee, who's this content creator in South Southern California, he bought a Ferrari 250 GTO for like 38 million. Meanwhile, at Enzo at that same auction sold for like 11. The Enzo to 250 GTO spread at 3x is unbelievable considering that it used to be 100x. Yeah. And you're starting to see a 250 GTO is a 60s car and Enzo is a poster car for millennials. It was a car that was on our walls. I mean that car came out when I was 15 and I am, you know, is literally like a millennial dream and that's that's where the money is shifting. I don't I don't have any interest in a 250 GT. I don't have any interest split window Corvette or a Hemi Cuda. You know, I'm looking at Enzo and Carrera GTS. Those are the cars that I want.

What about Gwing? How did Hooie wind up with such an eclectic taste?

You know, the there are a few historic cars that I think will always be successful. Yeah. And that is one of them. That is a car that I think even the next generation and the generation after that will appreciate. And and I got to admit, if Gold Wings came down to a reason much more reasonable number, even I would be interested. Even though it's a 50s car and it's old and all that, it is just so damn cool. And so I don't think that is that eclectic for a young person.

Yeah. I also heard it's like it's like one of the first cars from that era that actually feels fast, whereas a lot of other cars that it's like it's it's fancy, but it just feels very slow

and modern. That's that's the really crazy thing about the Gullwing. I drove one and I it wasn't until the moment that I drove one that I realized why you see them on so many vintage rallies. And it's because they're unbelievably drivable. They are very comfortable. They are fuel injected. They are easy to drive. They are easy cars to operate. Manual transmission. The the the the steering is all very easy. It feels like a modern car even though it is approaching 80 years old, 75 years old. Um and so that's that's a pretty usable, you know, performance car.

Love it.

Uh what other what other words or advice were you sharing with the Porsche team on like what what would you be if you were magically the CEO of Porsche? What what do you do right now? cuz like there's certainly some some frustration in terms of accessibility for cars that people really like enthusiast cars.

Yeah. And and is that is that real or is that created? You know, like I think I think the enthusiast cars, they're doing things generally right. It is a tough business right now. the auto business.

They are dealing with changing

governmental

situations globally that have really affected their strategy. And Porsche, who is relatively small and relies a lot on the success of a single model, is sitting here saying we had shifted electric because that's what everybody told us they wanted. Suddenly they're saying that they don't necessarily want that. Meanwhile, European regulations are significantly stricter than now North American and even Chinese regulations. And is there a possibility that Porsche makes a special car just for the American and Chinese market? That's a hard sell to Germany, which is the whole market. I mean, it's it's an interesting flux kind of world right now in the auto world. And I don't know. I honestly don't know what what what Porsche's future ought to be, but they have put a lot of money into I have right now at my house the electric Macan GTS. It is a fantastic car. It is not going to sell.

Yeah.

Under any circumstances. One last question on Porsche before we move on to China. Uh, why do targas hold their value so well?

They're just not made in large numbers and they are really damn cool. The real question is why don't they make a turbo target yet? That is would be or a GT3 target. That is the market to go after. But I think they're probably supply constraint.

Yeah. Uh, China BYD uh is in the they're in the Wall Street Journal today. BYD launches new fast charging battery amid slowing demand in China. I was surprised to see that they're losing market share there because it's so competitive, but they have this new tech. They can charge the battery to 97% of capacity from 10% in just 9 minutes. Uh have you like what what BYD models have you driven? What do you like? What do you think will be cloned or adopted even if it can't be imported?

I drove some BYD sedan a long time ago. Um, I don't remember which one it was. Very competent car.

Yeah, I think it was a Han. This was three, four years ago. And it seems like the cars have gotten more competent since then because I'm sitting here in San Diego and we actually see BYD cars almost every day on the streets coming over from Mexico where they're where they're pretty popular.

Wait,

because you can buy them

register them in Mexico and you can drive them into the United States. You just can't here.

I don't think it's Americans who are doing this. It's just Mexicans who are coming over to shop or go to SeaWorld or whatever. But we see me I mean we live in San Diego. see Mexican cars on the road more than any US state. Yeah. And a lot of them are electric because they're selling a lot of them there and they're they look pretty damn compelling. I actually think that one of BYD's big success stories is forgetting the China market for a second, just their global conquest. I mean, you see them all over Europe now, you see them all over Latin America now. Um they are really making it as as America gets scared of the Chinese and is trying to make all these rules against them. Boy, the other countries are really embracing it. Ultimately these countries like cheap good cars and a lot of those cars are cheap and good

and Tata never really had that success coming out of India maybe just too

they should I don't know what happened with Tata they had that crazy tiny car I think that I have a suspicion that if Tata had been in different market conditions things would be different but I think a lot of the success of BYD and the other Chinese companies is probably fueled by um the Chinese government providing really favorable benefits incentives to them and in India you know when Tata was really trying to blow up 20 years ago it was prevs and you know that's a competitive advantage that the Chinese clearly have right now is their EV technology

okay killer feature I saw out of China I want to know whether or not you want this in your next car uh if the battery catches on fire it ejects it concussively out the side you've seen this video I'm sure is that a good feature or not

oh god you can imagine some real liability issues that that hasn't gone in front of uh in front of attorneys in the United States. I'll tell you

I don't think so.

The technology that they are developing is interesting. Charging a battery in 9 minutes that is a huge deal, right?

Yeah.

Because I think the still to this day the primary reason people don't want to adopt uh EVs is charge time and the fear of charge time and all that stuff. And I think the more you can if you could ever really solve that problem whether it's battery swaps or or crazy fast charging that would probably be the last excuse

you know

have you seen the show the HBO show Silicon Valley?

Have you seen any of this? So there's this character who's loosely based on Mark Cuban Russ Hanimman and in the show he brags about how he has a car with doors that go up and it's become uh you know iconic in Silicon Valley. And I had this thesis. If you want to be the the the the most impressive person in Silicon Valley, the best buy is the is the BMW i8 because the doors go up.

They do. And it looks cool.

And you can get one for like $40,000 now or something. They're cheap.

You'll be able to get one for 20,000 just in just a few years, too.

Uh we have an intern on our team who's looking at a new car. Uh talk him out of getting one. Uh, wh what why why should he not pull the trigger on a BMW i8?

How old is he?

He's 21.

And where does he live?

He lives in Los Angeles. And

get one.

He should definitely get one.

Get one.

21 and he's in LA. He should obviously get an i8. He's going to go around flexing. He's going to He's going to put those doors up at every stoplight.

Yeah, every stop.

Every stoplight. Do it. Uh should he should he buy one that's already been wrapped and crashed in crypto? Uh in crypto

resolution is that he will wrap and crash it if he doesn't buy one.

Yeah, I just assume uh the the the other the other broader question is that uh is that uh he he often winds up at a valet and and I want to know what is the best bargain car to make sure that you get valet? You know how they park the nice cars in the front?

What's the car that's the best bargain to get the awesome valet spot? I mean that is up there right

in the 30s and and car enthusiasts laugh at that car and do not have any respect for that car but LA valet and driving it around LA and like you know that I remember when those were new I I lived in Philly and I remember seeing them on the streets thinking this looks like a concept car and I know it's not that fast and I know it doesn't drive great. It's got a three-cylinder engine but holy crap this thing looks so insane.

It's been 10 years and it still looks just as cool.

Still looks cool. He was asking me, he was like, "Three cylinders, so are they in a Vshape?" And I was like, "No, it's not a V3."

But also, but also, if you're if you're thinking about an i8, you shouldn't concern yourself with any of that stuff. You're obviously not a car enthusiast, so just don't worry about your cylinders.

Just to defend him, I was pitching him this. I was pitching him this, but I still think it's a great It's a great

flex car, but it is a hell of a flex.

Yes. What what else is in that category? If you if you maybe double the budget, triple the budget, but you still want uh just ridiculousness for the price.

I am surprised to see how cheap McLarens are getting. And the early McLarens, the MP412C's have a reputation for being unreliable. However, the 570S, which was sort of the next generation car, that was the entry model, they are starting to come down. We sold one on Cars and Vince not that long ago for like 80 some. That's a pretty appealing car cuz that is like real fast. That is not like, oh, the i8 is pretty fast fast. That is like modern car, 3 second or less, 0 to 60 type of fast. Those are pretty impressive cars for that money.

Um, you're still always worried every day, you know, though, when you're driving a 40,000 milei McLaren that was probably on turo for three and a half years. It's still always a little bit worried, right?

Yeah.

On on Turo for that long rough. What

what are you looking What are you most excited for release-wise this year?

You know, there's not that much stuff that's coming out this year that I'm really pumped for. I think the Rivian R2 is definitely the car that I'm most excited for. I've already driven it, but I am excited to see how it does. EVs are obviously have fallen off, but that car is so damn good, and I just hope that like it has the success it deserves because it is just such a great car. Um, I'm excited to see the the electric Ferrari for sure. I don't think it'll be out yet this year. Um, definitely excited to drive the new hypercars, the F80 and McLarens, which is called the W1.

Um, but it seems like this year is a little bit less of a crazy year of cool stuff that I've been excited for. And I think R2 to me is the especially from a consumer retail car industry perspective. To me, probably the most interesting car coming out.

What's going on with Scout Motors? Is that is that taking some of Riven's IP? Do I I'm just kind of speculating here, but did VW Group is a big investor in Rivian and I think they got IP rights through that investment to try to bring it over to the rest of the fleet. Then Scout is kind of

like uh expanding off of what Rivian's done. What's the relationship there?

It'll be an interesting thing to see because yeah, Volkswagen is investor in Rivian but also basically owns Scout and it's like wait a minute, you know, these cars are really similar. like they're both these kind of boxy off-road electric vehicles. One interesting distinction is that Stout is going to do a plug-in hybrids. They're going to have gas motors in those cars. Um, and I think that that is one excuse people use for not buying Rivians. They're worried if they go overlanding, they're going to run out of charge, which is a legitimate worry if you're actually out in the middle of the desert or the mountains or whatever. Um, but Scout, they recently announced they're pushing Scout a year to 28 now. Um, this is one of those things where I'm like a believe it when I see it guy. you know, they showed those cars which were so cool. What has that been two years ago? Now they're saying it'll be another two years. It's like let's let's let's see what happens. Let's see what the climate is like politically um before these cars actually come out. But it is interesting that yeah, Volkswagen Group is basically pitting these two brands sort of against each other. Um and I am curious how that will end up shaking down.

Yeah. Is there a word for those like reverse hybrids where it's mostly an electric car, but it has a gas engine that you can fill up to charge the battery? I saw a demo from a Chinese car, but that feels like something that for the overlander, for the camper, for somebody who wants to go off-rid and not have the range anxiety, but still have all the benefits of the electric powertrain.

Yeah, that that that is I think that would almost like a generator essentially.

Yeah, basically.

I think that would be great. I think I think people would probably they would certainly be more willing to adopt that than like a full electric for like the overlanding crowd. However, I would argue that like I walk around my neighborhood and like eight of my neighbors have Rivian R1S's. Like these people aren't actually overlanding, right? These are these are cars the three row SUVs they're going to take their kids around. And I think that you can't you can't you can't do too much development for the overlanding crowd, which isn't real. Uh there's not a lot of people in the overlanding world willing to spend 120 grand on a brand new vehicle anyway. Um, mostly you got to think about who's actually going to buy these, which is, you know, parents.

Do you have do you have expectations around uh self-driving capabilities just going to normal consumer cars over the next few years? Like I don't know if you've been in a Whimo, but technology is like there

Porsche dealers last weekend and and I was like how much of a threat do you think the like at what point do consumers say like I love Porsche but I don't want to I want I want the best possible autonomous driving,

right?

And so I'm just gonna for my daily I couldn't possibly go with Porsche because I I don't want to drive.

Yeah, I think about that a lot. Um I have been surprised at autonomous v a uh autonomous technology. There was a lot of talk about it for a long time and then it the last two years I haven't heard that much. It's almost like they haven't been able to kind of whatever the next hump is like they're doing well and the Tesla FSD is great and a lot of other cars have really great systems too but none of these are like Whimo type like they're not you're not that doesn't seem like it's ready to go into cars that you or me would be able to buy and that doesn't seem like it's changed much over the last couple of years. It seems like the world has moved on to like AI and and uh you kind of forgotten about like autonomous cars and I do wonder how long that's going to be. I do think that Porsche will have to develop like there will have to be autonomous Porsches like other automakers will do it too. If they want to sell Cayenne and Panameas, those are not necessarily being sold to people who like love to drive. Um, and so those cars also will have they'll have to do that. That's just going to have to be what they do. I'm hopeful.

Yeah, Mercedes seemed really close with uh level three system that you could actually watch of YouTube video on the center console

and they even said at some point they would be willing to take liability, but like where is that? never really shipped or anything. And you would think that it would be like a rat race, arms race, and it would be like, "Okay, well, now BMW fires back and they're, you know, level three plus, right?" But it just never really played out.

They all went all they all went all in on EV and spent a lot of money and time developing that. And

yeah,

it turned out that's kind of been a little bit of a dud at least here in North America. And it's like we would rather have a I think most people would rather have

most people. Yeah, definitely.

Uh, how do I get a one of these new Unimogs from Mercedes? Well, the the story I read was that they're building precisely one. Did you read that? No.

They're building one.

That was what I was afraid of because you look at this thing and it's like it looks like a concept car. When I first saw it, I was like, "Okay, this is cool, but it's obviously AI."

And then Mercedes was posting it from their actual account. I'm like, "Okay, it's real, but it's a partnership with this uh other kind of like commercial truck company. I forget the name. So, I'm not going to get one, you're saying. And you're not going to review one?"

No. I mean, even if they did make them, the Unimogs, especially modern Unimogs, have almost completely been restricted to not the US. There's all sorts of regulations and trucks, importing trucks to the US is hard. Um, but it'd be cool as hell. It looks incredibly cool.

What a G6 land.

What's the most elite big family SUV

to buy this year? I'm in the market. Um, the answer for me, if I was the answer answering this question, it would be the Lexus LX because I think that that is a serious car that is seriously capable. It is the 300 series Land Cruiser globally, which is a very serious car that Toyota doesn't bring here anymore as a Toyota. And I think if you know, you know. That car is an if you know, you know, car. I think a lot of people would say that it's the Cadillac Escalade IQ, but I think that car is certainly uh there's a group of people who are buying that car. You know, it's not really uh I think they think they are elite and I think that it's it's uh it's not really that, but I think I like the if you know you know cars better. The LX, specifically the Overtrail LX, like the off-road version is like a very it's a three row, but it's like a very capable off-roader and it's expensive and not that many people are buying it. Those are special cars.

Okay, last last car recommendation. Uh there's a there's a group of folks on our team, all young single individuals. They go on date nights. They were thinking about going in and buying one car that they would share. They were considering a Lamborghini Urus that they would each have uh a few nights a month with which to go on first.

Some more backstory. I think it was the two of us were

again. This is our idea. But is there is there a better car for a group of young men in Los Angeles to share for first dates than a Lamborghini.

Do we have a budget here or are we Is it just

Well, I mean, we're talking about eight or so guys.

There's eight or so guys. So, they're going to all be paying a normal car payment of a couple hundred, but you add that up, you get into like three grand. You get into like three grand a

potentially lease like a like a Rolls-Royce.

Rolls-Royce, but that's not maybe the right date car. So, yeah, the team's right there if you want to take a look. If it was me, I would get a Bentega for that same money. But it depends on the type of lady that you're or man that you're trying to attract. There's a certain type of of lady or man that is interested in an Urus driver and there is a certain type that's interest and you kind of got to just figure out what you're looking for. You know what I mean?

Okay.

Yeah. Your wife is not going to be attracted to the Urus, but she might appreciate.

Yeah. Well, that's why Turo exists. We will we will we will need to turo each and run the proper AB test for the for the

that may actually be the easier way to do this for

truly

because at some point in either situation you have to come clean.

Yeah, you have to come and be like

the tonight. Oh. Uh

well the best thing a 24-hour tour rental you potentially can squeeze in two dinners, a breakfast and a lunch and then maybe even a late lunch before you got to return the car. Many years ago, I did ads for Turo and in my YouTube videos. And for some reason, I agreed to be paid in Turo credit instead of dollars. And it got to a point at one point where I had like $22,000 in Turo credit. And so whenever I would travel anywhere, I would just sort by most expensive and I would rent whatever G Wagon or Audi R8 or McLaren was available and whatever. The brutal thing for me is I was watching I was watching your videos and I became a Turo client, but I was, you know, in my early 20s. I couldn't get any of the good stuff. I just be like, "Okay, like uh I can get a boxer,

right?"

Oh, well. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come check out. Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.

Everyone, go follow Cars and Bids. Go to cars andbids.com by Yeah. Sort by most expensive. Buy that car. That's what you want.

Exactly right. There you go. Exactly right. Your own method. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye. Let me tell you about app loving. Profitable advertising made easy with Axon.ai. Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. And let me tell you about Octa. Octa helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity. So you get the power of AI without the risk. Secure every agent. Secure any agent with Octa. Without further ado, Max Hodak is back on the show. Max, good to see you. How are you doing?

I we do not have audio, but you look fantastic. You look fantastic. The video looks great. Uh Max Hodak is of course the founder and CEO of Science Corporation. He's co-founder of Neurolink, and there are some exciting news developments coming through today. I think I heard something.

I think I hear Max. Can you hear us?

I can hear you.

Yeah, I can hear a little bit.

Great. So, uh, give us the maybe reintroduce the company and then give us the news today.

Yeah, I mean, it's been a crazy crazy couple months. So, we're, uh, I mean, we're a medical technology company really focused on the brain. It's just when you engage directly with the brain, you get the effect size. You don't really see elsewhere in medicine. Our our lead product is the is a retinal prosthetical trial last year on age related macular degeneration. It's one of the main reasons people go blind. Um that's unimpered. And in that clinical trial, you're able to take people that haven't been able to recognize faces for over a decade to reading. I found out the other week that one of our patients um finished a 300page novel. Um there's a sketch on the wall of our office of someone who sent us a sketch of the Sydney Opera House that she drew through it.

Wow.

We're still having some audio errors. Uh let's uh let's take a little break. We'll come back to you in a few minutes. Is that okay? Let's sort that out and uh Jordy and I will go back to a bit of the news and uh give you an update on uh chat GPT is pulling back potentially from the direct uh direct response advertising. The agentic commerce is going to be a little bit more brand focused potentially. I saw some news about

Aentic commerce uh Aentic commerce is different than the ads product.

Yes. Yes. at like uh Aenta Commerce is like you search for a product

a Shopify retailer like has opted into this.

There's a question about

I think I think I think a big part of it is just like focus right like it seems like over the last

uh couple months like my my interpretation of open AI strategy is like hey let's focus on

our core business consumer let's focus on enterprise codeg gen and let's just like get back to basics. My big question is is I wonder if there will be an opportunity to uh to run more targeted ads on those more considered purchases like a car. Like I have hit chat GPT with a number of questions about very expensive purchases like a car. I'm not getting targeted on Instagram with car ads because typically the car brands have uh sort of just like brand advertising broadly for okay yeah here's a brand you see it at the Super Bowl. But uh direct response has never really worked on meta for these highly considered purchases like houses and cars. But people go to LLMs asking questions about those. What will it be like to live in this neighborhood? Is this like here's my budget? What what should I be uh you know what should I be looking for in a family car? Like the questions that you asked Doug Demiro. We're we're fortunate that we get to ask him directly about R8s and organic and I I8s and all sorts of Bentegas versus Uruses, but a lot of people will have that question and go to an LLM for a debate. And you can even go to chatbt right now and just ask, you know, what's the best car? What car do you think I want? And it will just tell you and there's an opportunity there to drive conversion to a very high ticket purchase. But it's unclear um you know how quickly that will that will roll out. Uh, we do have a piece of uh advice for everyone.

By the way, I just asked

what

Chad Chad GBT 5.4 thinking, "What car do you think I want?" It only had to think for a couple of seconds. Probably a Porsche 992 GT3 RS with the Weox bag.

See, nailed it. And so, the thing is is that it could be asking that question in the background. It could it could go in the background and just say for every single person ask what's the what's the highest ticket item that you think that they might buy? And then they could go to Porsche and say, "Hey, we think we got a fish on the line here." Like, just pay us a couple bucks. If we get them across the finish line, pay us a thousand bucks or a couple thousand bucks. And that could be a very different shape of advertiser, I think.

Yeah, it's hard to hard to handle the attribution. But

yes, but I think it's actually easier in an LLM context because if you if you are actually going to buy that GT3 RS with a YO package, you'll probably ask Chad GPT about where can you find one? And then when you're in the dealership, when you're reviewing a contract, you might potentially uh actually have the the LLM review the contract, right? like you might have you might upload it upload the the the sales contract and you might ask it hey update my insurance and it might go do that. So it might actually have a lot more uh attribution and then down the line it might actually say you might be asking a question hey my check