Archer Aviation CEO on eVTOL air taxis, LA Olympics exclusivity, and the Joby China supply chain lawsuit

scalable. Well, we have our next guest, Adam Goldstein from Archer. He's the founder and CEO.

Adam, how are you doing? Good to meet you.

Doing great.

Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time. Uh would you mind kicking us off with a little bit of your backstory? How did you become interested in flying cars?

Um, well, a lot of it came from building a software business that every month I had to wake up and it'd be the first of the month and we'd have to start over with sales. And it was uh one of those things that kind of drove me to the point that

Wait, were you selling one? Were you selling

Yeah. Were you selling box software? The whole thing of SAS was that it just automatically recurs.

Yeah. Right. I wish that was I wish that was the case. the sales grind of software are really really tough. And so given how hard these businesses are, I really wanted to do something that was unbelievably fun. I could really help make an impact um in the world. And the technology was changing over and so I had been um you know messing around with electric engines and building u airplanes and it was an opportunity to just build a whole new category of airplane. A lot of it started out as a fun thing to go do, a project. Um, and I'd always loved and been obsessed with airplanes. And so, it was an opportunity to go out there and actually build something super special. Um, and as it all started to work, it became like super clear that there was just a massive business to go build here.

Okay. Take us through this video. What are we seeing here?

So, these are what people call EV talls or electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft. If you can think about it, same category as like a helicopter, but it's electric. And when you switch electric, you all of a sudden can put multiple sets of engines and propellers and actuators, which allows um the aircraft to have a ton of redundancy, which allows you to certify at a safety level that's super super high. So the vehicles take off and land like helicopters, but then transition and fly forward like an airplane. And it allows for uh you know, people to get where they're going, really really quickly.

I have to ask, is any of this AI generated video? Is any of this CGI?

That's all real flight test video.

This is all real flight test video. Is there one of these? How many of these exist? What's the plan to ramp this up?

Um those videos are several different aircraft. Um so we are in the process of um going through the certification uh you know process with the FAA and that's the point where we really unleash. So we have a big factory located down in Georgia that can build up to 650 aircraft per year. Wow. So we have capability to go do it. So right now you know we're you know we work with you know a handful of aircraft. um the first block of 10 is what we built and then now we're in that phase where we're starting to build to the next block of 50. But you want to time it really with the certification process and then the other side is u we were selected as the exclusive air taxi provider for the LA28 summer Olympics. So we want to make sure we have it all done.

I love it. Uh and and you you were talking about safety ratings. Is the idea to prove that these can be safer than traditional helicopters? Like what's the goal?

Yeah, that's that that's correct. So the FAA created a new category for us. It's not a helicopter. It's not an airplane. So we actually certify these at a safer level than what helicopters are today. And we have to go out and obviously prove that. Um and so that just will I think drive a lot more uh people willing to get on aircraft like this. Um the aircraft also is much quieter than a helicopter which means it can allow for a lot more landings. So for example, if you wanted to take a helicopter to the Hamptons, they limit the amount of landings at East Hampton Helport because it's so loud and people complain. So, as the um aircraft are much much quieter, it can dramatically increase the amount of people that are able to access us.

Okay. Um when I dig into the flying car plans, the history of the flying car, there's always like four different problems that need to be solved like regulatory uh uh vertical takeoff and landing, going electric, and then also building Verta ports and actually having more places to land. uh assuming you get through approval. It looks like it's already vertical takeoff and landing. It sounds like it's already electric. Will this be able to just slot into the existing uh helicopter infrastructure and sort of go from like could someone theoretically just buy one of these instead of a helicopter, have a pilot who's experienced in this and fly from helicopter destination to helicopter destination while we as a society figure out more vertaports and landing zones. Yeah, absolutely. So, we designed it to fit into the existing helicopter infrastructure. So, the wingspan is less than 50 feet. The aircraft weighs 6,500 lb. So, it's designed within that um you know, existing guidelines. We'll fly existing uh helicopter flight plans. We'll use and leverage a lot of existing infrastructure. And then depending on the city you're in, so places like Texas and Florida, there's uh much easier friendly environments to go. You can land kind of lots of different places. Places like California, it'll be much more planned um and and structured. And so it gives you the ability though to really um you know use existing but then ultimately scale the stuff out. So I I do think you'll see fleets of this stuff get done first before individuals but the individuals ultimately will come with time um and people will be able to use them on an everyday basis.

You mentioned infrastructure. I imagine that uh most uh airports that service helicopters have fuel but maybe not charging infrastructure. Is there any hurdle to actually getting charging infrastructure in place? the way Tesla did with the roll out of the electric car.

Yeah. So, the good news is we use very similar uh charging infrastructure that the EVs use. So, QC charging like a Tesla supercharger. Got it. And we partnered with a company in our industry that's uh and I'll call more of a a partner than a competitor. It's a company called Beta and they make um a lot of the charging infrastructure. So, I've backed their charging infrastructure, their plans, we buy a bunch of their equipment and so we're going out there and doing that. the airplane business is just much smaller in terms of number of units than the total number of cars. So, it's not like you you need like tens of thousands of chargers everywhere. If you're looking at like New York City, you need a handful, right, at the big helports and that's really it.

And there's probably already a lot of power going into an airport broadly. So, to redirect a little bit of it, it's not like you're you're trying to set up a you know, a charging station in the middle of nowhere.

Uh

we are not straining the grid. Yeah, that's for sure.

Yeah, exactly.

So, the the Olympics partnership is exciting. Uh but looking forward, what do you think are going to be, you know, five years out, 10 years out, what are going to be the most like common routes that at least what would you predict at this point?

So city center to airport is a very obvious one because there's known demand and willingness to pay. You can see that through ride share, Ubers, you know, we all do that, right? And so it's also typical trip that's not that far but also takes a long time. So the convenience factor there is massive. If you live in LA, you want to go to LAX. If you live in New York, you want to go to JFK. Those type of routes are like very obvious, but these routes exist like all over the world, things like that. So, anytime like where you know, everybody says, "Oh, I wish I had this in my hometown." It's like, I grew up in Tampa, Florida. I grew up in North Tampa. I would have loved to have gone to St. Pete or to Clear Water. That's a total pain to get to. But if I could fly there, that would be super interesting. That literally exists everywhere. So, I do think it'll become much more common. Um, and we just have to get it started and get people comfortable because it is the first new category in a very long time, literally about 60 years that the FA has created. So, there is a an adoption period that will take place.

Yeah. No matter where you land in the Bay Area, it's going to be an hour to get into San Francisco proper. Uh, whether it's SFO can be a little bit faster, but Oakland's it's all it's all takes forever.

Creating a category like this, how do you solve the pilot side? What is going to be the like? Are you creating the certification with the FAA? How do you build out a cohort of of pilots? Will there ever be are you imagining there's going to be a recreational market for EV tall?

Yeah. So they FA has already defined this and so there's certain credentials of like what you need to go do it. The good news is the aircraft is super easy to fly. It could take you two weeks to hover a helicopter. I could teach you guys how to fly this plane in 5 minutes. A lot of the training is really

I feel like I could I feel like I could I feel like I could hover a helicopter in about in about five minutes.

The most dangerous thing. Red Bull, contact me. You can fly this thing upside down.

If you could hover a helicopter in 5 minutes on your first try, that would be unbelievably impressive because that is extraordinarily difficult.

Every guy Every guy thinks they could they could take over.

I mean, yeah, I think that's ridiculous, but I could I could actually land a 747 in an emergency situation.

100%. Uh you're on the you're on the cover of the business and finance section in the Wall Street Journal today. It says flying tax maker Archer accuses rival Joby of concealing China ties. What happened? What is going on with the deeper supply chain in EV tall?

Yeah. Um so Archer is building products not just for the civil side but also for the defense side. And a big part of what we're doing is really in support of building you know re-industrializing America and building the uh you know the industrial base here especially on the defense side. And so we partner with a company called Andrew and we're building new aircraft. We build the big um aircraft and then um Andrew will missionize them. So think they put the sensors and systems and weapons into the aircraft.

So very important to me u that we build and keep the supply chain in the US and we build this stuff all out here. That's not been necessarily the case for our competitors. They put you know factories in uh in China in Shenzhen. They um set up their supply chain there. And I just think it should be table stakes for American companies working in defense to have to build out their supply chains and and ultimately um do it in America. And if you do go do that uh overseas, you also have to disclose that in a very proper way. And so I think that's uh you know a big sticking point for me. Um I do think companies working um in defense in America um need to be very transparent about that.

Talk to me about the battery supply chain there because I I feel like drone motors have been very difficult to reshore. electric batteries. We've seen some positive news from Tesla around uh a lithium ion lithium-ion battery plant and there's some extraction that's happening, but how mature I mean you're not making millions of these yet, but how mature is the supply chain on the electric side?

So, um the we use uh traditional lithium ion batteries and so um commercial offtheshelf stuff. So, we're not like inventing some new battery cell here that's not proven. The reason we have to do that is because there needs to be data to show the FAA to prove these things are safe. It's not just that these things are safe. It's that we have to go and actually light some on fire. We put them into thermal runaway, many of them into thermal runaway. We have to show they do not propagate and spread throughout the pack. We have to take an entire pack, hoist it 50 ft in the air and drop it and it cannot um emit toxic gases or catch on fire. So the standard is unbelievably high. Um so you need to use proven technologies to go do that. The good news is over time batteries do get better and so they get more energy dense um and it allows us to you know do more things largely around speed range and payload. Um but that will likely keep improving versus you know if you take like a typical um you know ice or you know piston piston combustion engine it's not like the tech is the the core it's not like the fuel is getting better it's the same fuel every year. So we have a a unique advantage where one day the stuff will be so good you probably don't need that much um and it will dramatically reduce your cost. So, yeah, long term this should be longer range. Where are we right now? I feel like uh electric cars had a certain breaking out moment once you got to the 300 mile electric car range. That's about what many gas cars are. How does the electric VTOL range compare to uh just a typical helicopter?

Um so today helicopters have more performance than what we have from a range perspective.

Um so we are targeting in and around urban environments. So think like less than 100 miles. That's the typical um you know kind of target. On the defense side, it's a hybrid vehicle. So they're they can go um you know upwards of a thousand miles. So you're putting heavy fuels back into it. So even further than what helicopters can do. So it depends what you're talking about. But on a helicopter, they can't meet us from a safety perspective. So you know there's if you look at like single engine helicopters, there's many single points of failure where if one part goes bad, you'll have a catastrophic event. So we are hitting standards that are significantly higher than where they can be. So there will be some trade-offs. So there will always be helicopters around um heavy lift stuff, really far um you know, range stuff. So if you have an offshore oil rig, for example, we're not going to compete in that market. Um so if you want to, you know, if you look at like um like a 53K, like a King Stallion, just Google that like a giant heavy lift helicopter, that thing can carry an F-35.

I like the name.

What's it called?

King Stallion.

King Stallion. That's a

Yeah. So that's a a big helicopter. I should create a horse themed uh product.

Yeah, you got to get good names going.

We're big horse guys over here.

Yeah, that's fantastic. That's a big boy. That's a big boy.

Yeah. So, we we call our our aircraft Midnight Midnight and Company is Archer and then um you know, Taylor Swift did release her album Midnights and one of the songs was Archer along that album.

Oh, there you go.

So, we were like, wait a minute, is this a shareholder?

I know she's been paying attention. I don't know. That's what we were curious is like, did we inspire her?

That's great. Uh well, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us, Adam. Uh this is fantastic. Uh cannot wait for the Olympics in Los Angeles. Hope to see these flying around and we'll talk to you soon.

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Have a good rest of your day. Let me tell you about public.com. Investing for those that take it seriously. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries, and more with great customer service. Before we bring in our next guest, I need to tell a funny story about in middle school, everyone had to give a speech, and I had the best speech planned. I was going to give a speech about the Osprey helicopter. Are you familiar with the Osprey helicopter?

Yes. It's a vertical takeoff and landing vehicle and I was like, "This is the greatest speech ever." I'm making it's the future of technology. It's a plane. It's a helicopter. Everyone's going to love this. I get up, I give a very convincing speech on how the Osprey helicopter should be supported at all costs. We got to work on this thing. We got to fund this with taxpayer dollars. The Osprey helicopter is the best thing since sliced bread.

I get up. give my speech.

Then the next person comes up and they're like, "My speech is about curing cancer." And I'm like, "I'm cooked." And everyone else had chose topics that were like totally pulling on your heartstrings. And mine was just like nerdy talking about a random obscure piece of military technology. Osprey is pretty sweet. I don't stand attack friendly guy in the chat says Taylor just wants the uh Taylor Swift wants the Archer so people stop flaming her for

Oh, that's a good call. That would definitely help out. Well, before we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about Gusto, the unified platform for