Gold Derby's Debra Birnbaum on the Oscars: Warner Bros wins big, AI is a raw nerve, and writers' rights must be protected

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What's going on? Great to meet you, Deborah. Welcome to the show.

On the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. First, uh, since it is your first time on the show, I'd love for a brief introduction on yourself and then I want to get into the Oscars. But, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Oh, thank you for asking. Um, I'm a longtime journalist. I've been covering entertainment for a long time. Let's just say a lot of years.

Great.

Um, you cut me open. You can count the rings. Let's put it that way. Fantastic. Um, and uh, just give me your your overall reaction to the Oscars this year. What took you by surprise? What impressed you? Uh, what was your personal highlight? Uh, walk me through what you thought the the story of the night was.

Um, the story of the night has to be one battle after another. I mean, I think it was definitely the film to beat going into the night. I don't think it definitely, you know, I don't think it counts as a surprise. Yeah. But I think it was great to see that film definitely take away all the wins that it did. I think the winner of the night was definitely Warner Brothers. You know, given all the coverage that that studio has been getting. It's sort of ironic that it was the studio that walked away with the biggest wins of the night.

I think Conan did a great job as the host. It was exciting to see that.

Um, so I think there was a great story, but to me the I loved Michael B. Jordan's win. I think it was historic. It was wonderful. I think he was so emotional about it, and that's kind of what you want out of the Oscars.

Yeah. How are you thinking about I I mean one of Conan's like funniest bits I I thought was uh his his uh jokes about the Oscars moving to YouTube and that you'd be inter interrupted by some you know sort of sloppy ad. Uh very tongue andcheek but uh what do you think might change about the Oscars as they move to a more internet native model?

Um I know I thought he did a great job. He was really so self-aware about it. Um, I thought, you know, like I think one of the most awkward moments of the night with the speech is getting cut off. It's always uncomfortable. It's really hard to watch. You feel so bad for people. It's the moment of their lives and suddenly they're just sort of jumping up and down up and down on the stage going, "Why don't I get to say thank you?"

That's a really great point. I mean that one of the amazing things about the internet uh we've been tracking Apple's work with F1 and uh with the new F1 broadcast you can say I want to watch just this car on just this feed or I want to watch these three teams and I want this announcer and I could imagine in the future a feed where you say you know what I I actually don't care about the intros I want to hear the the the acceptance speeches give those to me in full I don't care if I'm here for 5 hours and you could just let the person continue and then cut away on the other feed and maybe that comes. It feels like the first version might just be the standard Oscar program on YouTube. Uh but uh certainly some silver lining there if if that happens. Um what what what what how would you characterize the AI this year at the Oscars? It it feels like there was a lot of demand for statements and and people to share their opinions about where things are going.

Yeah. Um, at the same time, uh, I mean, I artificial intelligence in the machine learning context has been recommending people what to watch on Netflix for two decades. And so, um, how are how how is Hollywood grappling with the AI issue at such a such a big event like the Oscars?

The answer is they're not.

Okay.

I think it's a raw nerve. I mean, I think no one is willing to admit to your point just how much it factors into it. Yeah.

Um I don't know that I can talk about what this season of the comeback is about, but I think everyone is definitely addressing it. Let's put it that way. And I think um I think it's definitely something that's on the forefront in everyone's mind. We all use it. And to your point, we use it in ways that we're not even aware that we're using it. We're using it unconsciously. And I think everyone is very sensitive about it. And we're seeing the guilds, god forbid there's another strike. Please God, I hope there is no strikes. Everyone settle it. But I think we have to get ahead of it and come to terms with the real ways that it's helping us. But also getting ahead of No one wants to see AI writing a script. No one wants to see AI making movies or making creative decisions. But we can also recognize there are a lot of ways that it can help us and make our lives better. So how do we find that happy medium?

I remember when Avengers I I it was probably Infinity War, maybe Endgame, uh won best visual effects. And in the the CGI that went into Thanos's chin, they used AI to transfer the data from the the the facial capture of Josh Brolan. They had a camera pointed at him with all the dots, but they needed to be higher resolution. They used AI to actually upres that data to make a more compelling character, which was Thanos. And it was a beautiful synergy between the VFX shop that needed to do more and better graphics and Josh Brolan, who still delivered a great performance. So, uh, hopefully there can be more storytelling there, but it is it's such an ambiguous time.

What, uh,

for sure. And it really like it came up last season with the brutalist, you know, and I, you know, and it's a really good question of how much it really hurt the brutalist campaign, but it's like suddenly you had Adrien Brody talking Hungarian and there was a controversy about how much ADR came into impacting all of that and how much it ultimately hurt his campaign and all of that. But it's sort of like let's all be aware of how much it really has to do and how much it actually helps the the making of the films and if it's going to help films get made and it's not really impacting the acting and the performance.

Yeah.

Is it really that difficult and is it really that painful?

Yeah.

The other thing is even you mentioned on the script side how many movies have been created that in hindsight you're like oh yeah AI could have made that exact punch that up or down that plot hole maybe.

Um

look I'm not defending AI writing. Not saying that. I'm just saying if it can if it can help to your point the VFX if it can help and if it helped the film get into theaters earlier in the technical aspects of it

maybe there's some sort of happy medium to be found there.

Formatting a script I mean it's such a hassle sometimes and there's little things about Yeah.

What do you think the the big like goals from for the guilds will be around AI? Do you have any sense of like what their asks are, what they're pushing for? I think it's about protecting the writer's rights for sure. I mean, I think it's really making sure that AI does not come in and write scripts and that the, you know, the writer's rights, which is really hard to say, but you know what I mean, that the writer's rights are protected. Um, it's probably smart of them to have done as painful it is to talk about, you know, another negotiation so soon after we just had one of those. Um, because it's all of this is changing so quickly and that this just happened that we're making sure that we're staying ahead of it. So, I think knowing how quickly all of this is evolving and how quickly these conversations are happening, making sure that this is a thing that they're ahead of and that they're not going to um that suddenly some new technology isn't going to emerge that they haven't thought about.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh have you been tracking the uh the debate over dialogue legibility or or how hard it is to hear dialogue in Hollywood movies these days? I heard that there's a there's a there's an interesting like loop from as TVs got cheaper, a lot of the speakers went out the back and towards the wall and so the sound quality got worse. So Hollywood sort of had to adjust and I'm wondering about your your your thoughts on how Hollywood is changing as we move to a a culture that consumes movies on their phones uh at home and less in the theater. And what's in your case on the Apple Vision Pro? I did watch two movies last weekend in VR fully. I'm probably the only person. I think it's amazing. I actually I we we we talked to um uh we we talked to James Cameron about this on the show and uh he was sort of it it was very clear that he had gotten access to the next VR headset but wasn't able to talk about it yet. And and I think from his perspective, uh, you know, his movies, the Avatar franchise, it's so visually rich that being able to deliver something that instead of a 55-in TV that maybe is from Costco and is tuned wrong, he can have more control over the actual visual experience. It was something that he was cautiously optimistic about, I think. And uh at least in terms of the the really odd silver lining for me in VR, it sounds very like anti movie theater, but it puts you in a virtual theater where you actually can't use your phone. And so that whole Netflix thing about they have to restate the plot seven times, that's not an issue. And so I watched Citizen Canain from start to finish, no breaks. I didn't, you know, that's a that's a movie that would challenge the most brain rotted of the younger generation and and I and I enjoyed it and it was great and it felt like the movie that I should have gone to the theater to see and I was able to do that in the Apple Vision Pro. So, I I've been having a good experience, but I don't know. VR is probably not in the conversation at all in Hollywood right now, is it?

Not so much. But I do think things that enhance the theatrical experience. Anything that can get butts and seats in theaters is definitely going to move the needle and it's going to be top of mind because I think that really is what is very much on top of mind for people and is really concerning the studios and writers and guilds and actors and all of that because I think that's what's really the biggest concern right now because there's nothing compared to the theatrical experience. There's nothing compared to, you know, seeing one battle after another on a big screen. And I know I keep going that, you know, that chase. Yeah, that's something. Yeah,

it's incredible.

Yeah. I wonder uh I wonder how the, you know, obviously the Netflix Warner Brothers deal didn't pan out. Um but one of the interesting case studies that I heard was about how K-pop Demon Hunters sort of got a second run in the theater once it had gone basically viral online. Then there was a singalong version and then it became this experience where even like probably 90% of the audience that saw K-pop Demon Hunters in theaters had seen it before, but the kids loved it and the parents had seen it and they everyone agreed this is a great movie. Let's go and see this experience. I wonder if that could be something that the theaters lean into in sort of bringing back the movies that have already been derisked. There's already this audience, but it's the spectacle and you know that the pe the the the tickets will sell. Um, but who knows? Nobody think it's that communal experience. There's nothing like sitting in a theater with an audience and experiencing it together. And on the flip side, you know, I I'm a ride or die Habnet fan and sitting in the audience and and riding that emotional wave of that movie with people in the audience and not just sitting on my couch crying alone, but crying with people next to me and someone turning to me and going, "Are you okay?" Yeah.

That was really it was a visceral experience and there's nothing that can compare to it. So, you know, I think to your part about K-pop demon hunters, putting concert films, Taylor Swift saw that, putting butts and seats where people can experience something like that together, that's what theaters are all about.

Yeah, I had a had a similar but uh much dumber experience with the the sequel to the Planet of the Apes movie. Uh, I saw it in what's called 4DX, which is uh a uh it's a 3D movie, but then your seat moves left and right and there's water that sprays you when something happens on the screen that has water. There's smells that are piped in and at the end of the movie there's this crazy avalanche and they all survive and stuff and we were like high-fiving with the people next to us and it just created this like wild hilarious experience that I still remember to this day.

I'm there for it. I'm all for it. Bring it on. I think whatever whatever fits the right experience, you know, for certain things it'll be uh just a group of friends. For others it'll be the the full tilt 40x experience or maybe VR. Who knows? Um but

and I can't wait to see what Oscar category they come up with for that.

I don't know if

Yeah. What any predictions on uh AI specific categories in the next few years? Do you think Do you think we could see that?

Oh, that's a third round.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. I

think about it took it took some 25 years to add the the casting category. You know, you just saw that one last night and next year we're getting stunts. So, the wheels of change move slowly. They come, but they're they move slowly.

Yeah,

that's interesting. Stunts being added at the time where I feel like AI will be most dis as it rolls out potentially more disruptive to stunts than anything else because it just why risk

human life?

Yeah. Insurance and stuff. So, yeah. Interesting. Well, I mean it'll certainly I I I think just like you know cinematography, costume design, set design, like there's so many things where at at when you're at the level of the Oscars like you are going to see the people like you think you think Tom Cruz is going to stop doing his stunts? No way. He's not he's not going to let AI jump across a building. He's going to do it. And it's about like the lore that he brings to that performance that part of when you sit down to a Tom Cruz movie is you've been hearing about the process of making that film for months and seen, you know, behind the scenes stuff of him jumping the motorcycle off the cliff and it's real, but you can see some of the camera equipment. And so you go into it and it's so much easier to like suspend. You're almost not suspending reality. your suspect, you're you know it's real and so it just makes the just makes the uh the excitement so much more thrilling. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us.

Great to meet you.

Great to meet you.

Come back on anytime anytime you're writing something you think uh our world would be interested in.

Yeah, we'll talk to you soon.

I'd love to come back.

Take care, guys.

Have a great rest of your day.

Back to the timeline. What did we miss? Uh well, John Collison asked uh on the Cheeky Pint podcast if Sierra is a short AGI company. That was a very funny one. Uh I I I think everyone was wondering about this. Um and uh you know, we'll have to watch the full episode to to get the full answer. Uh but there is this interesting dynamic right now. VC investments usually take five to eight years to exit. This is from Ethan Mullik. Uh that means almost every AI VC investment right now is essentially a bet against the vision of anthropic open AAI and Gemini have laid out. And so uh it's got to be uh a great time to be a VC if you're in those names. Uh a little bit stressful and it just requires like an extra an extra layer of attention because you're not going up against uh legacy incumbents that have been rolled up and sold and gone public and gone private. That was so much of the early software boom was okay this company has been doing things in on on in paper and we're going to do it on a website and now uh you're going up against Sam Oldman and a lot of people that are in founder mode and very well capitalized and have a very broad vision and the technology shows a lot of promise. So

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