David Senra on Pulitzer's talent raids, cult founders, and the punk rock independence of podcasting

Speaker 2: Use your favorite agent to deploy web apps, servers, databases, and more while Railway automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security. Our special guest today, we have David Senra here with us. How are doing, David? Good to see you.

Speaker 6: Good to see you.

Speaker 2: Bitch, you took lot. Totally adjust this. Oh, wait. Am doing here? I think this is fine. We're we're doing low before. Because of the

Speaker 1: First pod? The

Speaker 2: cameras. Move this over here. Yeah. First podcast. What what was your most recent episode? You did Ed Catmull?

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Oh, one of the best.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: He's so cool. Break it down. What was the biggest lesson? Ed Catmull, the founder of Pixar?

Speaker 6: Yeah. Founder of Pixar. I mean, he's also like a graphics legend.

Speaker 2: Catmull Clark algorithm for subdividing meshes. I'm familiar. Damn. I love it.

Speaker 6: I didn't even know that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Clark. Yeah. Yeah. It's an algorithm. If you have a box and you need to create more dimensions, more fidelity, you can use the Catmull Clark algorithm.

Speaker 6: He was cool enough to invite me to his house. Oh, yeah. Was really

Speaker 2: cool. Cool.

Speaker 6: And so that's where we recorded. Yeah. What I would say is like the weird thing that I shouldn't have been surprised at is like you ask him a question and every answer is in this beautiful full story. Oh, yeah. And so after I was like, oh, of course. He's one of the greatest storytellers of all time. Like, why wouldn't he speak that way?

Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah. What do you learn about founders from being in their homes?

Speaker 6: Well, that's a good question.

Speaker 2: Do you go straight for the bookshelf?

Speaker 6: Yeah. That that I do automatically. I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know.

Speaker 2: And learn about architecture. Do like the Straussian reading of you you walk into someone and it looks like a, you know, castle and it looks like Vlad the Impaler lives there. That's gonna tell a different story than somebody who lives in little farmhouse.

Speaker 6: Was His a lot more normal than than I would expect. Okay. I thought it was gonna have like weird shit everywhere and like little cartoons and stuff, but no.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta think about like what what's on the walls, what do they choose to to put on their on their walls, the type of art. He was in a very And how self and how how like reflective they are in their careers. There's some people that put up like their movie star, they put up their own movie posters. Other people, even though they rise to the highest heights, they might still be fans of other creators or other people or their contemporaries or they might have, you know, Roman statues

Speaker 1: because they're

Speaker 2: obsessed with the

Speaker 6: that's a good I've hung out at Jimmy Iovine's house a bunch of times. And he famously says, like, he's like, he doesn't have a trophy room, he doesn't have a rearview mirror. Yeah. He doesn't even like talking about his past. Yeah. So there's nothing in his house. You wouldn't even know what he does Mhmm. Other than he's very fucking rich.

Speaker 2: Yeah. What's the latest on the podcast industry, podcast growth? Are you seeing any do you think there'll be any knock on effects from like have you been tracking what's going on in Hollywood where they're digging through Reddit to adapt stories from YouTubers? Have you said you've been tracking No.

Speaker 6: Sorry about this.

Speaker 2: So there's three breakout movies this summer. Obsession, Backrooms and Iron Lung, all three created by YouTubers, independent creators. Sort of turned like, you know, Hollywood sort of turned their back on these folks, like they didn't have direct pipelines into the traditional media world. And yet, they all had blockbuster films in the span of a few months. And I'm just wondering if you're seeing any hints from like the Spotifys of the world, the Netflixes of the world where there might be more appetite to take what we started here, independent creators, and start funneling them into the traditional into the traditional workflows. God, I hope not. You hope not? Yeah.

Speaker 6: Why? I think the one of the cool things about podcasting is just like how independent and almost like punk rock it is.

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 6: I've spent obviously a bunch of time with Spotify guys, you know? Yeah. I was just with them in New York, because I just recorded one with Gustaf. Yeah. And then a few days later, had breakfast with the co CEO and head of podcast, Roman. Mhmm. And, you know, they've told me multiple times when their initial podcast I I think they wind up firing the lady that was running it. Her idea was like, let's take this thing that is, you know, doesn't cost any money, and the people who started it would do it for free, and they did it when no one was listening. And let's like get Michelle Obama or Mhmm. Fucking Prince Harry to do this. And it's like turns out, one, it was super expensive. Two, no one listened because they didn't even care.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: So, yeah. Actually, couple days ago, I was in New York, and no disrespect to this guy, but there was like this investment banker, I guess, who's like trying to like I guess he sold a few podcasts and he's done a bunch of media, and I was just like, I left the the we didn't even eat. Kind of like disgusted with he took he was talking about something that I love, that I care deeply about, something I think is genuinely a miracle. And it's just like, well, how do we like package together and like sell it to PE? And I wanted to vomit.

Speaker 2: Extremely bearish for the

Speaker 6: Oh, and they brought you up too. And like, I was like, you don't have to tell me about them those guys. I happen to know them.

Speaker 2: Extremely bearish for the slat wall industry. What do you think about podcast aesthetics, designs? If I'm starting a a solo show, I put a bookcase behind me?

Speaker 6: No. You know what? So you know what we might do? What? So you know the guy that does my clip, Smax them. Right? Yeah. He wants to start doing like a brand identity and video episodes for founders. Sure. And I think we're gonna do a pixel by pixel recreation of Steve Jobs' home office.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's fun.

Speaker 6: And because it's like I've seen that image. Yeah. Exactly. It's like kinda messy and he's

Speaker 1: standing up. He's got a

Speaker 6: big computer there, but he's got shit on the floor. It's like something you actually use.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That story is sort of apocryphal. Right? Because it it it's a picture of Steve Jobs' home office.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And then

Speaker 2: people people compare it to a picture of Tim Cook in the Apple office, and they're like, this tells you everything about how different they are. But the nuance there is that you haven't seen Tim Cook's home office. You don't know what it's like. And of course, if, like, Vanity Fair is coming in with a team of photographers, the Apple PR department's probably gonna tidy up Tim's office. But I

Speaker 6: also like doing, like, a pixel by pixel, like, recreation and, like, it's like if you know, you know. Like, you have to be, like, deep into lore of business history.

Speaker 2: I feel like the acquired guys are doing well on that path. The the In the Garage episode, I don't know if you saw

Speaker 6: Michael Lewis?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. And so that idea I think that they have a huge amount of an an untapped upside in the set design of those worlds if they actually build a world around Nike when they're doing the Nike episode. Okay. So I think they're gonna have a huge video opportunity.

Speaker 6: I have a little different perspective Sure. On some of this. It's just like for I think normal people podcasts

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 6: This like heavy investment into sets, like, could make a lot of sense. Yeah. Because like normal people are sitting around watching. It's just Sure. What I would say is like for people building business podcast is like if you have an audience of entrepreneurs and investors, like what do they actually want? Mhmm. They want like useful information that they can then apply to their business or some kind of inspiration. Mhmm. Like, so get that part down first.

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 6: For the first nine years of founders, there was there wasn't any there wasn't video at all. Mhmm. And it like thrived. Obviously, on my new show, like, we you actually played a huge role for this. We started shooting at three cameras and John's like, what is this bullshit? You should do five. And we just recorded one with mister beast that won't be out for a few months, but we did six cameras and a drone.

Speaker 1: Why not 11? No.

Speaker 5: I mean Yeah.

Speaker 6: I guess you could. But I think five I think five seems to be like a Turn it out. So like, you you can make them beautiful, but I'm saying like you have to nail Do

Speaker 2: we have 11 cameras here? We have Gong Cam.

Speaker 6: You have I was Like in the production, you have

Speaker 2: Eight, nine back there. I noticed we have 10 or 11 cameras.

Speaker 6: When I'm sitting behind your production crew, there's three different cameras on me Yeah. Just standing back there.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So, yeah. This, I was saying, have you guys ever seen the the picture of when Steve Jobs convinces Bill Gates to give Apple a 150,000,000?

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. We're gonna put And

Speaker 6: I was like, Put Andrew Huberman up there talking

Speaker 1: to you.

Speaker 2: This is the

Speaker 6: first time I've been here since the big screen. Yeah. I'm like, what do think?

Speaker 1: It's pretty great. It's pretty

Speaker 6: great. I go, I love it. I go, you know you can go bigger.

Speaker 2: I just showed them a picture. Was like, this is modular. You can add panels to this without actually needing to buy a whole new system.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So you

Speaker 3: can keep doing it. History

Speaker 1: of Talent Wars. Is anything, you know, the the iconic It's the email exchange between Steve and the CEO of Adobe. Right? Like, know, we have different policies on this. One of them needs to change. Is anything else come to mind? I can imagine a number of history's greatest entrepreneurs that that were willing to just become enemies with another Mhmm. One of the greats purely because they realized that that talent is is everything.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I would say, like, if if you're the kind of person that gets to the very top of your profession, you're highly likely, like, have some degree of ruthlessness Mhmm. To you. Ruthlessness to them. Joseph Polisser is the basically the inventor of everything that we're kind of doing now. Mhmm. I'm actually just reread his biography. It's like, he he tried to merge his newspaper with his little brother's newspaper. And brother's like, no. I don't need to do this. And Joseph's like, well, you have to understand, you're not even making your own newspaper. So you shouldn't be so cocksure, is the word he used Mhmm. In the and and he goes, because what happens if to the people that are, like, actually making the newspaper. What if they go away? And his younger brother's name is Albury. He's like, they're not going to. That night, Pulitzer raided his little brother's entire staff and recruited them

Speaker 4: all. Why?

Speaker 2: So

Speaker 1: And did and and and think do you remember what happened after that?

Speaker 6: Yeah. I think I think the larger we can go into this one second. Think the larger point here is just like I'm not saying like you should it's very clear like when I'm especially when we're making founders podcast, like, I'm not saying you should have these traits yourself. You should just know that these people do and you can choose to if you want to work with them or compete with them or whatever the case is, you shouldn't be surprised Yeah. At what they're doing. He he would literally do every anything to win. Yeah. He would sacrifice relationships, ethics, morals Yeah. Anything. He he wants to win.

Speaker 2: The surprise about Pulitzer is most people learn about Pulitzer from the Pulitzer Prize Yeah. Which is awarded to the best journalistic efforts, the most groundbreaking investigative journalism.

Speaker 6: But Are the best how writing

Speaker 2: Pulitzer made his money. Right? He was a muckraking journalist, a tabloid newspaper guy. Is that correct?

Speaker 6: Him and William Randolph Hearst get into Yeah. This huge circulation war in New York. Mhmm. Same thing. William Randolph Hearst idolized him. He was fifteen years younger.

Speaker 2: He did

Speaker 6: the same thing that Polischer did to his little brother. He raided went blind Oh. And now you're competing with somebody that is blind. And so, we're like, I'm taking all your shit, man.

Speaker 2: Steve still

Speaker 1: just go to the office and kind of sneak around and just whisper? Nope.

Speaker 6: I should not be laughing at this other than everybody knows I have a giant head. And so this part was hilarious to me where if he later in life, last two decades of his life, he's he's blind.

Speaker 5: I never

Speaker 1: really noticed you had a giant head, but now that you say that, really up up here, it's it's tremendous

Speaker 6: that Well, where do think all this information's stored? Yeah. So anyways, when he'd meet him, he'd blind, he'd come over here. He'd he would like want to feel your face. Right? Woah. Then eventually he goes up the cranium and then this one guy goes, my god, you have a giant head, sir. That I left that part out of the podcast,

Speaker 5: but it was

Speaker 2: in the book. But but the quality of his work, he was not

Speaker 6: Oh, yellow journalism. It was It's the adventure of your, you know, overly sensational.

Speaker 2: Yep. Clickbait.

Speaker 6: It's fucking social media. Yeah. It's like sex, violence. Sure. If it bleeds You're worried about stuff that has no effect on your Yeah. Day to day life. But Yeah. You know, it can spread everywhere.

Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: What what entrepreneurs do you think could be defined as cult leaders?

Speaker 2: Are

Speaker 1: all of history's greatest entrepreneurs cult leaders? Or are there some that are just humble merchants So that like Mhmm. You know, making better products cheaper?

Speaker 6: I think that that's funny. I actually just when I was with the the Spotify guys, they said they they they like pull all my data and I never you you guys know, I don't like look at data. Yeah. I don't care like how many people listen. Yeah. Like quarrel. I like what you said about taste. Let's go back to that next. I saw the clip yesterday. I thought that observation you made yesterday was very astute.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 6: And so they went up pulling the data and they compared the two shows, and then what happens when people listen to both shows. But basically, they're like, you don't have a podcast, you have a Mhmm. Like, the retention is fucking crazy.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: I think anybody that gets really good at what they do and has a differentiated point of view, like, James Dyson, I spent time with him. Right? He's maybe my number one hero. Yeah. Personality wise, you wouldn't doesn't come across like messianic Mhmm. In the way like a Steve Jobs would. But his products cult like folk.

Speaker 2: Sure. Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 6: So like there's that example. And then there's just people have just unbelievably, you know, God levels of charisma like or a Henry Kaiser or

Speaker 2: What about that?

Speaker 6: Like a

Speaker 2: family business. Is that less cult like in in the organization?

Speaker 6: No. It's probably more because they I I I'm obsessed with these people that have Family they own a 100% of the the business. Yeah. You've never heard of them. I've met a bunch of them. Yeah. In many cases, they they'll print hundreds of millions

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: For the for themselves every year or, like, billions.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Just cash.

Speaker 6: It's like, oh, what was your paycheck this year? Fucking $3,000,000,000. And you've never heard of these people. But they have entire worlds. Like, a world in within the world. Midjourney. Yeah. Maybe.

Speaker 2: Birth of the next one. Maybe. Larry, he's like, oh oh oh, it only made a couple 100,000,000.

Speaker 6: No. No. That's not what I mean.

Speaker 2: I'm reserving judgement.

Speaker 6: That's not that's

Speaker 1: not what

Speaker 6: I mean. Sorry.

Speaker 2: I know.

Speaker 6: I was like No.

Speaker 2: No. It's not a dynasty. It's a dynasty.

Speaker 6: Yeah. These these people have been running their business for multiple decades. Yeah. Longer than some most of the founders we know

Speaker 4: of Yeah.

Speaker 6: Alive. It's just a different thing. Yeah. It wasn't a derogatory.

Speaker 2: No. No. No. I know. It's just funny because I know you have an extremely high bar for these things. Taste. Good or bad? Do you like taste? No. I I I Where do you stand on this?

Speaker 6: I think Jordy's observation about people misunderstanding what it is, it's just like it was something that was personal to you Mhmm. And differentiated to you. I think I went on somebody else's podcast recently. Went on Brian Halligan's podcast Mhmm. And he he was asking about you guys. It's just like it's like they came into this industry that I love that I think I study more than anybody else in the world. And it's just like, it wasn't like they were 10 x better marketers. They were like a 100 or a thousand better, like

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: The the next best fucking marketer in podcasting.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: And that didn't come that came from like your personal taste. And then what happens is like when people copy it, you see, like, poor imitations. They they they can copy what they see, but they don't actually they understand.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Something's only tasteful once.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's hard.

Speaker 6: And and I think, again, it should be, like, tailored to this person. I think in in, like, seven days, I wind up recording conversations with I think it was seven or ten days, something like that. Dana White, Ed Catmull, and Rick Rubin.

Speaker 2: Rick Rubin.

Speaker 6: And think about it. It's like one build with largest combat organization in the world. One is the top of his profession, essentially, consigliere to musicians and all kinds of people. Essentially, he gets paid to be himself, and then Ed Catmull is making movies.

Speaker 2: You're a scientist.

Speaker 6: And the theme through all of those, when you talk to them, and I didn't understand that going in, even though I've studied all of them, in many cases made multiple founders episodes on all of them too. It's like, oh, they're just building the product they want to use, that they want to see. Mhmm. Like, Ed Catmull was making movies he wants to watch. Daniel Wise wants to put on the fights that he wants to watch. Yeah. And Rick Rubin makes the music he wants to listen to. Yeah. And I think that that is like key to having taste. It can't just be like, oh, like, I'm gonna get taste to an API or something. It's like, what like what is James Lason has a great line about this. He's like, the root principle is to do things your way. This is what drives me fucking crazy about podcasts. What you the question you said earlier, it's oh, I I wanna make podcasts because now you can get really really rich making a podcast. So I'm gonna go scour Reddit for an idea. Right. It's like, you don't have an idea in your head? Yeah. Like, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6: And I think it's very important to, like, ask people why they're doing what they're doing. Yeah. That's another Steve Jobs quote. He's just like, the older I get, the more I understand that motivations matter. Have

Speaker 2: you read the latest Tim Ferriss blog post about his non fiction sales declining? Have you tracked this at all?

Speaker 6: Do you think I did?

Speaker 2: It's interesting. Who can you know

Speaker 6: me really well? Do you think I even saw this?

Speaker 1: I know you watched the the fight on Sunday.

Speaker 6: No. What? No. I was like on a I can't remember where it was Sunday. No. No. I'm gonna rewatch them now.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll rewatch them

Speaker 6: with You watched them at your house?

Speaker 1: Live. Yeah.

Speaker 6: You were there?

Speaker 1: I was locked no. No.

Speaker 6: Okay. Live with No. I was like flying or traveling. I don't remember where it was Sunday, but there was a reason I couldn't see it. Mhmm. And it's very upsetting to me. Mhmm. What were saying before that, though, before

Speaker 2: the fights? Tim Ferriss just Uh-huh. Shared some data on his he has multiple New York Times bestsellers. He's been seeing sales decline. And he sort of framed it as, like, some of the books that he's written, he describes as lookup tables for information. It's like one of them just has like a lot of recipes. So Oh, have you both

Speaker 6: for our chef.

Speaker 2: For our chef. Yeah. That's right.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So Tools tools for of titans or tools for titans was like, you can get that As a content from a prompt Yep. Right now, which is like, okay, what what was Steve Jobs philosophy Yeah. On product?

Speaker 6: Yeah. Is this is this just for like how to books? Or is like I I'd be very curious if the trend of people buying books is also going down.

Speaker 2: Well, the number of books is tripling.

Speaker 1: Why? You're helping I buy

Speaker 6: a ton of books.

Speaker 1: I know. I know. But you're you're you're you're doing such good summaries that sometimes I'm sure people listen to.

Speaker 6: No. I sell a ton of books. Yeah.

Speaker 2: You sell a ton of books. And and you service books 10,000 a year just

Speaker 6: so people using the link like

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And you service books that are like it's not a substitute for the product.

Speaker 6: But Well, don't know. I mean, of Morgan Housel and like his books, Psychology and Money book has been out for like five years. I think it's selling more now than it ever has.

Speaker 2: I can imagine that. Yeah. There's some sort of divide there because you could go to an AI system and ask for like teach me about the psychology of money. You could go tell me a fiction story. Now maybe it's not as good but when you're compiling information into a book this was sort of Tim Ferriss' reflection as well. He was saying that like a book that that categorizes information collects information specifically might not be as competitive in the in the in the future.

Speaker 6: I liked him. I've been reading his Yeah. I The Four Hour Workweek I read when I was like in college or like when it first came out. I went on his podcast recently and I think that Yeah. The conversation we had. But I would also say it's like, I I would wanna see data when it's not tied to like your audience. Oh, sure. So like, he took a break from his podcast for a little bit. His it might Yeah. Like, his audience might be different.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

Speaker 6: You see what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Yeah. In a sense that we're like a just pure author like a Morgan Haswell. I guess he has a big audience on X too. Yeah. Like, I'd curious Also, it's

Speaker 1: interesting that the four hour work week was like a meme and an idea and maybe it was a strategy or just somewhere that you got

Speaker 6: first time I've seen Dylan in person.

Speaker 2: Oh, really?

Speaker 6: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well, here he is.

Speaker 6: Are you moving to LA or what? Come on.

Speaker 1: He never knows. He never knows.

Speaker 6: I'm sorry. But I don't think I

Speaker 1: don't think if you asked a bunch of, you know, young people today, like, you think working four hours a week is gonna get you to your goals? I don't think anyone I don't I don't think that I think like the meme is now like, you have two years kind of thing,

Speaker 7: you know?

Speaker 1: Mhmm. Like, you gotta lock in. And like locking in is like somewhat at odds with just working for four hours from the tropics.

Speaker 6: I would say the the this is again where I think nothing we're doing is new. Mhmm. So if you go back and like, why do you guys have this like cult like following? Why do you have so many people that root for you, that love you? It's like they they don't look at you as like a public figure or God forbid a celebrity. They're like, oh, these are my friends, John and Jordy, you've never never met them before. Like, was hiking this morning Mhmm. And this guy was coming down and like I thought he was talking to himself, but I have like, obviously, I'm not I'm, like, locked in. Mhmm. I have headphones in and he, like, waves and stuff. And I was, like, maybe he's just waving to somebody else or whatever. He chased me up the fucking hill. I got to the hill and, like, he wanted to come and talk to me because he's been listening to the podcast for years. So I think, again, I get a lot of my information from LMs now. Mhmm. Right? I definitely think it's it it it is a it can be a substitute or a threat or, you know, diminish the amount of people listen to your podcast. But I also think podcasting done right for people that actually love it

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 6: It's much more like relationship based. And the reason I bring up Oprah is because I did this episode on her a few years ago and she just like she realized she was onto something weird because like she had like, you know, Tom Cruise on her show. And people were like, oh my god, you're my favorite movie star. But they'd come up to her and they're like, hey, you wanna come to my house for lunch? It's like that's not the same relationship that you have as It's a very deep almost like friend relationship.

Speaker 2: Yeah. We saw her do an interview and it was electric. It was like watching LeBron James.

Speaker 4: A master. Did you wear it?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Was crazy.

Speaker 6: That Katzenberg thing?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6: Okay. I saw her at Delston.

Speaker 1: How do you what's your process for getting better at your craft?

Speaker 6: I I it's just reps, reps, reps. Consistency. Yeah. I do think there is something to do with like I've been trying to essentially say, okay, I don't want an episode of Founders, for example, to be longer than an hour. And even the new show, some of the conversations I was having were like two and a half, three hours. And I'm like, I kinda wanna see if I can just like get the get all the stuff that I want out of this person's brain in like an hour, hour and ten. So now I have like the guy that's running my camera. He gives me like an hour warning. Now if the conversation's still going or if there's still stuff I wanna learn and understand, I'll keep it going, but I try to keep them really really tight. That that was something that Pulitzer did too. I I remember because I first read his biography like five six years ago, is they used to have these newspapers that were bounded by page length. And it was like, you got four pages, buddy. So like, you have you better put the best news on these four pages. You can't go above four pages. So I think designing a constraints, I think reps You were just on the phone with Rob. Rob told me because I saw him in Italy. Yeah. And the team is over there for a wedding and obviously flew back as soon as I could. And he said Obviously. He said you called him. He's like, David, he's like, Senra has to be going crazy for not podcasting for two weeks.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I feel that the I feel the difference. I I've been like so busy that sometimes I'll let founders instead of every seven days. It's like every 10 or every, god forbid, like 14, and I feel the difference. So, like, it really is just reps reps reps and just staying in the pocket over and over again. And again, doing it because you actually want to do it. Like, you know, on the new show, like, I feel very sad when I don't podcast. I could easily if I had an entrepreneur in front of me, this is what we're working on now, is is stuffing the top of our funnel. You put me with an entrepreneur that I'm just intensely interested in, I could have a conversation like that every day Mhmm. For sure. It's not work. It's like something I'm, like, completely obsessed with. So I think that's that's really it.

Speaker 2: What have you learned about podcasting from Andrew Huberman?

Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know if I've learned anything from Andrew. The only person I've ever come across where that I'm like, fuck, this guy knows more than I do is Roman, the head of podcast of Spotify. Oh. To the point where like, I'm like, dude, I will fly to Germany once a quarter just to have lunch with you.

Speaker 7: Interesting.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Like he and we were

Speaker 2: like completely He doesn't have a podcast.

Speaker 6: No. But he's He's

Speaker 2: purely

Speaker 6: The person running their podcast before, again, this is like your motivations matter. It's like, what's that famous Josh Kushner quote where he's just like, if if you have to pick the person that has the most experience, the most resources, or who wants it most, you always pick the person that wants it

Speaker 2: most. Mhmm.

Speaker 6: This guy wants it more than he will. So he's a unabashed, like, podcast fiend, then he's got this god level view of podcasting. Mhmm. And so I just fucking

Speaker 2: The only Josh Kosher quote that I know off the top of my head is what if it all goes right?

Speaker 6: And that's that's a great one too. Default optimism.

Speaker 5: It's a great one.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Default optimism. So I think I think Rob Moore would be a better person to ask that question to. Sure. Because he's now working with both me and Andrew.

Speaker 2: Of course.

Speaker 4: Of course.

Speaker 6: And what he says, he's like, there's only two people in all of podcasting that can do a solo episode, can crush a guest and interview. Yeah. And he's like, it's just you and Andrew.

Speaker 1: Hat trick.

Speaker 6: Patrick won't Oh, yeah. Patrick doesn't do solo episodes.

Speaker 2: Maybe it was Colossus

Speaker 1: No. No. I'm just saying hat trick. Three

Speaker 2: hat trick. Oh, no.

Speaker 6: Hat trick.

Speaker 2: So did I Wait. Wait. Wait. What is the second one?

Speaker 1: Solo episode can crush as a guest and do

Speaker 2: an As a guest. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's rare.

Speaker 6: Yeah. As a guest. Triple

Speaker 2: True.

Speaker 6: But no, I I think a lot of this is what Jordy was asking when you just went to the bathroom. Part of it is like, I mean, I think you guys are like this. Like, you don't really look around to other podcasters to like what you should doing. There's a line by the weekend where he's just like, competition? I don't even listen. Mhmm. It's just like because then you you you wanna limit I I spent time with you you know the company Bending Spoons? Yeah. So I spent time with Luca Ferrari in Sweden.

Speaker 2: He's been on the show.

Speaker 6: And he yeah. Yeah. He's a what you realize about him is like and let me get to Dana White too about this.

Speaker 7: I see

Speaker 3: a large IPO on the horizon.

Speaker 6: He the way

Speaker 1: he They're they're they're going out like in the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 6: I just text him. He's coming on the show, but he's like, can't do it right now. In like, bye. Yeah. So I can't record, though. But he he's

Speaker 2: A friendly IPO. He literally

Speaker 6: doesn't pay attention to anything else. He's got like a Galapagos Island version of company building. Oh, yeah. Like the way he the the way he approaches it and the conversation we had that one night was just like, oh, you're you're an interesting dude. And Dana White, I would say is the exact same Mhmm. The exact same. So we got along, like, amazing.

Speaker 2: Like Yeah.

Speaker 6: And then we hung out a bunch afterwards. And I you know, he said the funniest thing because somebody texted me, like, dude, I love the episode, but you, like, missed a big opportunity. I'd love to know, like, what books influenced Dana. And I was, like, I screenshotted this text between me and somebody else. Dana told me after we started recording, he's just like, I've never read a book and I've never listened to a podcast.

Speaker 1: Never read a book.

Speaker 6: Because he did like Amazing. Again, go back to taste. Like, was obsessed with boxing before he got into combat into to to to MMA. And then he was managing fighters, and then he saw the opportunity to buy the UFC for $2,000,000 out of bankruptcy. Essentially, he preps bankruptcy. And then all he did is just like, I'm the biggest fan of this. Like, should just make what I wanna see. Yeah. And he said, think on the episode, like, we never did production. I didn't know what how to a camera. I didn't know anything. He's just like, just figured, okay, what do I wanna see? And let's just work backwards from

Speaker 2: that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I was talking talking to a buddy who spent twenty years in in cable TV, and he was asking, like, what is our routine? And the the traditional cable route to do, you know, a few hours of television is so wildly different than at least what we do. They typically if they're going live at 4PM, they have a 7AM meeting where they're going over they're going over what the show is gonna look like. Everybody's kind of aligning. And I was like, well, we show up at 9AM and then at 10:55, the production team says five minutes and hits a countdown and everything has to happen basically in that sub two hours.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I think this is another thing that I

Speaker 1: I had gone if we had gone and like read the book on television, we probably would have started that we would have been we would have been starting the

Speaker 2: I listened to the the Johnny Carson episode, Founders.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I

Speaker 1: know. But that didn't influence, like, the schedule of the show and that that like, to me, that's understanding, the the person.

Speaker 2: It influenced me in the sense that I was more comfortable with you permanently living in Malibu because Johnny Carson did.

Speaker 6: I fucking called this Do you remember a year and a half ago? I was like, most people make generational wealth and then move to Malibu. I go, Jordy, you're gonna create generational wealth from Malibu. I called Did I not? Yeah. Do you remember that conversation? I forgot about that. But

Speaker 1: I did when I moved there. Yeah. I was like, damn, I retired too early. I seriously went through like a one year period where I was like, what did I do? I remember. I'm like, there's like because everyone all my friends in Malibu, I love them dearly. They'll be like they'll text me like Tuesday Yeah. 11AM.

Speaker 2: Going to the beach.

Speaker 1: Like, you you you down to surf right now?

Speaker 2: And I'm

Speaker 6: like, brother. Still trying to work. I gotta tell you what happened to me there the other day. It was people say stuff to me on the street all the time, but this guy in Malibu said the funniest shit ever said or ever heard. I'll get to you in one second. I wanna say about your the process where you just said comparing contrasting how, like, corporate TV it is and you guys do it. Sure. Another thing that Ed Catmull would talk about and him and Steve Jobs is just, he understood that the creative process was in large parts an absence of process. Mhmm. And so if you think, okay, this is how TV is done. 7AM, 8AM, 10:15, I have to do x y and z. It's just like that's too much process. Yeah. And it's like the creative if you were to be really creative, it's like in the absence of process. So I was walking across the street, maybe around Malibu, maybe I wasn't there. And this entrepreneur who sold his company, like you said, everybody there has already exited. He's driving a truck, his his windows are down, he's got surfboards in the back, he's going to surf, and he slams on the brake Mhmm. And in the middle of the highway or the middle of the road, and he just sticks his head out the window and he goes, Senra, you dog. And the the rest of the day, said that for like ten I said I kept saying it over and over. Senra, you dog. She's dog. That's hilarious.

Speaker 2: That's funny.

Speaker 6: Dude, I forgot about that. Yeah. You created generational wealth and you're still going.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Still going.

Speaker 6: You're still going.

Speaker 1: Still going.

Speaker 2: It's a good time.

Speaker 1: Still going. No. That was that was very rough. I had I was I in the first year moving there, loved it, but I was constantly on Zillow looking at places that weren't there. Where? No. I just felt like I I I felt like I was shooting myself in the foot by not being around people that were in the same state of mind that I was in, which was very much like on the hunt.

Speaker 6: Do you have that belief still?

Speaker 1: No. I mean, part of the beauty of TBPN, it was like the only business in technology that I felt like I could actually build while having that as my primary residence. That's Not even like venture venture Yeah. Capital, like do you really wanna back the the would you wanna back the VC who's gonna tell you I'm gonna spend like a hundred and two hundred days in Malibu next year?

Speaker 2: Or the company. Company.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Because like No. No. No. VC two. VC two. Because like there are I know plenty of VCs that have a place in Malibu. But If they're hunting of

Speaker 2: of them

Speaker 1: Cisco's a place know, SF

Speaker 6: or I the larger point, maybe let me refine my question. It's like, you feel that that you have to be around people that are chasing the same thing as you are, or do you think there's a benefit to actually being separate from that?

Speaker 1: Not not anymore. I I like going and going to a barbecue with my family and like our friends and No.

Speaker 6: No. I I'm not talking about like you, do you think that's necessary not just for you

Speaker 2: guys the action is. Like, you're a first time tech founder, move to San Francisco, live really close to all the big companies because that will be your employees, those will be your friends, those will be your investors. Like, obviously, go where the action is, like, almost always.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I I think just my personality type is more like, loner kind

Speaker 1: of

Speaker 6: thing, where it's just like

Speaker 1: But you have a unique business. You don't need to hire you don't need to hire you don't really need to hire people.

Speaker 2: You're not trying to poach from the labs and the big tech companies constantly. Like, there's so you you know, you heard that story about Mark Zuckerberg, like, making soup for AI researchers or something like that. Like I didn't hear that story. It's hard, yeah, if you're not. Like, the reason Adobe and Steve Jobs were going back and forth with Apple was because they were right across the town from each other. It'd be a lot different

Speaker 6: if one of them

Speaker 2: was asleep at the wheel.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I think it's like if like power laws rule everything around us and differentiation is, like, key, I think maybe, like, separating yourself Yeah. From that. Like, I mean, Microsoft started in a in a strip mall in Albuquerque. Yeah. You know? Amazon, like, he he drove cross country from New York after quitting D. E. Shaw and set up in Seattle.

Speaker 1: There

Speaker 6: are a bunch of historical examples. Like, don't think there's like a hard and fast rule

Speaker 2: for Yeah. Course. Not a hard

Speaker 6: And I think there there should be

Speaker 7: like general.

Speaker 6: I think the weirder the idea is Yeah. I mean, James Dyson owns a 100% of a company

Speaker 4: Santa Barbara.

Speaker 6: Is one of the largest privately most valuable privately held companies in the world. And, you know, he did it in his bath in a in a carriage house in in Bath, England, like

Speaker 2: Oh, really?

Speaker 6: Yeah. I thought it was

Speaker 2: all Santa Barbara. Am I wrong about that?

Speaker 6: Dyson? Dyson's still fucking from The UK, bro.

Speaker 2: Oh. I'm thinking Sonos or something, maybe. Don't know. Somebody's on the beach. What's the what's the oldest entrepreneur you've ever covered? Have you ever done anything from like the seventeenth century?

Speaker 6: Oh, you meant I thought you meant oldest age.

Speaker 2: Not age.

Speaker 6: Because that's probably Henry Leland.

Speaker 2: Sorry.

Speaker 6: So Henry Leland founded Cadillac at 16, founded Lincoln Motors at 70.

Speaker 2: You gotta do Workday. Yeah. Founder Workday was maybe '60, '65. Yeah. But

Speaker 6: yeah. There's a guy from the fifteen hundreds. His name was like

Speaker 2: 15? You did an episode about a founder from fifteen hundreds? It's I don't think it's that good. Loom or something?

Speaker 6: No. It's his last name is like fucker, but it's not. It's Fugger. Jacob Fugger.

Speaker 2: Okay. Jacob Fugger. He was Today, we're profiling the founder

Speaker 6: Can you find out the Started the name of the book for me? I think it's like the richest man ever lived or something like that.

Speaker 2: You had a profile of the founder who created the wheel.

Speaker 6: F e g e r.

Speaker 2: Is man who

Speaker 7: ever lived. There you go. Wait, which

Speaker 6: man who ever lived. Yeah.

Speaker 2: No way.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So, but like he's more of like a financier and I think those kind of

Speaker 2: I think you might have to update the title. Elon's on a run right now.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. That that maybe slow.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: But, yeah, that was that's like less interesting to me than somebody like building a product.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Than just some guy like figuring out ways to turn piles of money to bigger piles of money.

Speaker 2: Yeah. How valuable is it, for the new show interviewing founders who are sort of, like, onto the next thing post exit, little bit more free, almost pseudo retired? I'm just thinking about between, like, Ed Catmull, Rick Rubin, Dana White. Like, Dana White has, like, a schedule. He has a book to talk. He has a plan. He has a next fight to promote versus Rick Rubin and Ed Catmull can sort of reflect on a body of work a little bit more?

Speaker 6: I mean, Rick's still working every day. I mean, he had the great there's a clip from there that, like, called, like, lazy workaholic.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That's great coinage.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I I think it I don't think in those terms. I just think of, like, is the person sitting across from me like, I've invited and recorded podcasts with some of our mutual friends, and their response to me is, like, they're not out. I've done, like, don't know, like, 14 or 15 that I've recorded, I haven't put out yet, something like that. Maybe 12. And they're, like, why Strategic reserve. No. No. No. Just I'm addicted, and I have to do this more, and so

Speaker 1: No. I know. But but it's good that there is a strategic reserve of

Speaker 8: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Founder interviews But God forbid.

Speaker 6: But originally, they were yeah. Originally, they were like, oh, don't fit in with like, you know, the Dell or Eck. I'm like, not everybody's gonna be a deca billionaire or like Mhmm. It's just like that that's not the rubric. It's like, are are you do you have like a singular career, and am I intensely interested in having a conversation with you?

Speaker 8: Mhmm.

Speaker 6: And because I'm doing these for selfish reasons. It's just like I'm trying to there's like shit in your head that I want out that benefit me, and I just assume that everybody listening, there's like 10,000,000 mes out there or a million mes out there that are interested in the exact same things that I'm interested in. Yeah. Like, you know Ravi Gupta? You've Ravi on the podcast?

Speaker 2: We've had him.

Speaker 1: Gupta nator.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I ran I ran to him in Miami. I think this is right after I forgot which episode dropped.

Speaker 2: He was really in the invest like the best cover art. You remember?

Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. And then but they made him, like, yellow. I remember. I mean, was in a group chat with him and Patrick, and he's like, what the fuck is this? But anyways, Robbie

Speaker 1: think John is joking because we made him I saw. Version of

Speaker 6: it that

Speaker 1: maybe was enhanced. No. They he's talking about his

Speaker 6: skin color in in the one I'm talking about. But I ran to Ravi randomly outside a restaurant in Miami, and he had mentioned just listening to or watching one of the episodes of new show, and what he said was interesting. He's like, man, it really annoys me how good you're getting at this because you know exactly when to interrupt and ask a question for your audience.

Speaker 2: That's interesting.

Speaker 6: And I go I go, thanks for, I guess, compliment. I go, I don't think about the audience at all. Yeah. I'm interrupting and asking a question for me. And I just assume that you have the exact same interest that I do, and you're gonna wanna know the answers to that question. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it goes back to, like, taste and having a perspective and a point of view. And there's some people that hate the fact that I interrupt. Yeah. Okay. There's 464,000 other podcasts in the business category.

Speaker 2: Take a hike.

Speaker 6: Go grab one of those.

Speaker 2: Take a hike. Do any of the guests get annoyed by that or give you feedback about that? Because you gotta care about them. Right? The guest experience matters.

Speaker 6: No. Well, yes. Like, but no, they understand. Most of the especially for the first ones, like, they were fans of mine. Yeah. They listened to founders for years. And we have they know that we're we're both obsessed with the same thing.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 6: It's like learn using learning from history as a form of leverage. Yeah. And no, they and like, in many cases, they've texted me after the fact. They're like, I've been on a ton of other podcasts and like, you're the you you met my nerdy enthusiasm. Like, he's like, they're not used to somebody being so into what they're talking about. And so, no, I I don't think so.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's interesting. Like, we we we we talk over each other all the time when we're just hanging out. And sometimes we get comments, like, I'll stop talking over each other. But we that was

Speaker 1: It's authentic.

Speaker 2: But it was yeah. And it was purely enforced from the audience. It was like like we didn't know that we were doing it the first time we got called out for talking over each other. And we were like, wait, who are they talking about? Is John talking over Jordy or Jordy talking over John?

Speaker 1: Because we both do

Speaker 2: it. Because we both do it. And so we were like, we we we took a very different approach. We were like, okay, this is feedback from the customer. Customer is the audience like we probably should think about this and now

Speaker 1: At least be aware of it.

Speaker 2: At least be aware of it. Each other. Yeah, we do but we're a little bit better.

Speaker 6: No. Would say like having like when we hang out, you guys do that too. So like just do that. Yeah. Because he's like somebody will you cannot listen to Dana White would talk about this. This is like you can't listen to the comments. They'll be like, this fight was awesome. The same exact fight. This is the worst fight ever. It's like, the your audience is big enough that you're gonna hear conflicting opinions on literally every single thing you do. Yeah. Like, I have a good friend of mine who who did the How to Take Over the World podcast, and he started wanting to add sound effects to it. And he loves like very dramatic And music and and so he goes, hey, can I get your advice on this? And he sent me this like Twitter thread of of people commenting on the fact they now he has has sound elements. People complain about this. You go.

Speaker 2: No one complains about the flashbacks.

Speaker 1: No. We've there's there's there's every sound effect we have Losers. There's someone out there there's someone out there that that wants it off the board.

Speaker 2: But no way.

Speaker 1: I pay I pay attention.

Speaker 2: Are these just smoke grenade heads? Are they just smoke grenade fans? They're like pure smoke No.

Speaker 1: There's people that like they hate the laugh track.

Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's fair. I could see some situations.

Speaker 6: But there's probably people out there that will also comment and say they love it.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's like Yeah. Sure.

Speaker 2: Is that

Speaker 6: little John? That's right.

Speaker 2: I know. Over there.

Speaker 6: But my point being is like in in in Four. In Benz. 20. In Benz. Yeah. It was like, the music's awesome. Keep doing it. The music sucks. Stop. It's like so what do do there? What is this?

Speaker 5: Do have a check mark?

Speaker 2: The check mark Why the fuck

Speaker 6: do I look so tan on that? What do what 's up with lighting here?

Speaker 2: We got lighting. We got color grade. We got

Speaker 5: all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a swear jar. A swear jar after this.

Speaker 6: I've given up, man. Like, every time I come on here You're

Speaker 1: the only guest. Yeah. You you used to try pretty hard not

Speaker 2: to We need to lock this behind a age gated payroll paywall. We need KYC on the center episodes.

Speaker 6: Oh, so okay. That's another complaint I get all the time.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Why do you

Speaker 6: swear

Speaker 2: so much? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 6: I make podcasts for entrepreneurs. Have ever talked to one?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Swearing. Most of them are mature and adults, but

Speaker 6: No. Elon said in his in the Isaacson biography, his favorite word is fuck. That's imprints.

Speaker 1: Yeah. But but but you can't I mean, Elon is singular. He also has sort of a different framework for what is I think I think that's Ed think a normal entrepreneur shouldn't be like, well, Elon does this thing where, you know, he does something that's maybe not politically correct, so I can do it too. It's like not not necessarily gonna work as well for you as it does for

Speaker 6: is an 80 year old gentleman. And the clip that we just put out there, he's like, most companies say they want a truth and they're full of shit. Like, he's not. That's just how you talk. It's how you speak.

Speaker 2: Yep. I had something else. Oh, GTA six. Cover art has been revealed. Team's excited. Releasing on

Speaker 6: Let me see.

Speaker 2: November 19.

Speaker 1: Can you put it on

Speaker 6: the big screen or no?

Speaker 2: It's on the timeline. We can put it up. You can see that.

Speaker 6: When was it released?

Speaker 2: The release the revealed was today. But

Speaker 6: The funniest quote from the Strauss Sezellnik.

Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna ask you about.

Speaker 6: First of all, I used your Power Law podcast episode. Thank you for sending me the prep, by

Speaker 1: the way.

Speaker 6: It was very very helpful. Yeah. The funniest quote I saw from that the funniest comment I saw from the Strauss Sonic episode I did was those eyes have seen GTA six. You know, he caught salmonella poisoning, so it took like within three hours of us finishing the interview Mhmm. He was like, debilitated for and land Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That's crazy.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Thank God it happened three hours well.

Speaker 2: I saw a whole twenty minute reaction video to your interview with him talking praising him for being, like, the only sane CEO right now in the world of AI because he gave, like, very logical, very inspiring Yeah. Answers to the questions of how they'll use AI, but there's still a role for this and that. And he was like so balanced, and it's not what you're getting from a lot of AI leaders these days or a lot of

Speaker 6: CEOs. What did you think of his he definitely has a different opinion on it. What did you think of his, like, take on that?

Speaker 2: Oh, I I think he's a 100% right. But I just think that a lot of people see the stock market as unfairly punishing them. And if they needed to do some layoff from over hiring a couple years ago, they can do it and say, oh, it's because so much AI. We already saw this with the whole Klarna saga where there was like a, oh, we're we're not using Salesforce anymore. And then you watch and you see, like, Anthropic and literally hiring Salesforce admins. Like, clearly, there's some revealed preference going on there. And, yeah, I I think he's the one that he just doesn't have to talk that specific book. He's appealing to creatives, gamers, his customers, you know, the the executives that he works with. He's not as beholden to, like, some broad narrative. He actually did go through, like, a SaaS pocalypse for a little bit. Everyone was you talk to him about this. So everyone was saying, oh, you're just gonna be able to one one shot prompt a game. And and he's like, that's not what makes the games profitable.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And so a lot of the business leaders, maybe even if they do understand they have an economic incentive not to reveal like the truth about their business, which is that maybe their mode is something completely different than what people think it is. And maybe they don't wanna reveal that. And so they don't want to let you know how they really make money or how how locked in the customers. I mean, this is the famous, what is it, teal line like the monopolist says the competition's never been fiercer. Yeah. And the then the entrepreneur in the perfectly competitive market says, we have a monopoly.

Speaker 6: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well, you know, no one no one can compete with us.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of CEOs and founders I've talked to privately, and what they say publicly about AI is completely different than what they're saying. It's like, it's job creation. It's like, that's not what you said last week. I'm like Do

Speaker 1: you keep a list of of of people that that you meet now that you think will have biographies about them in twenty, thirty years? No. No. Because I think you should. Because I assume you're gonna be

Speaker 6: How far This is an interesting question. How far ahead do you guys look?

Speaker 2: What?

Speaker 6: Like, in your life, your career, like I'll talk to some people and they're like, what's your, like, tenure?

Speaker 2: My plans are measured in centuries.

Speaker 6: Yeah. People say that usually have wildly unprofitable companies. They should just, like, get to that get past the next fundraise, brother. No. Like, I I maybe I'm, like, retard maxing, and Patrick definitely thinks I I do. Mhmm. But like, literally just thinking like the next day, the next like What is it? That's that's not a curse word, is it?

Speaker 2: It is. It is. It's very

Speaker 1: Low class. That one

Speaker 2: Longer.

Speaker 1: Never. Never say that one. But No. But I but I but I get your point. You're just kind of like focused on the next next

Speaker 6: the idea that I know what's gonna take place five or ten or twenty years from now, think it's like

Speaker 1: I know. But I I just think it'd be interesting, you know, you're sitting down for an interview with someone, you know, in twenty years, and if you can show them a note and say like, hey, the first time I met you, I thought you were, you know, special.

Speaker 6: The idea that I would keep anything for twenty years. Like, I have almost no possessions. Like, I don't I don't like I don't tend to, like, look back or, like, linger. Like, literally just think about the next twenty four hours and design. Like, did this twenty four did I design the twenty four hours I like? Cool. Let me do that again and again and again. I think one of the worst things I could have done is, like, especially at the beginning of Founders when no one was listening. It's just, what's my one year plan? It's just like, I don't know. I'm gonna make another podcast and I gotta figure out how to get listeners and get better doing this and then just never stop doing that. This is I think time carries most of the weight. Like, this is one of the most, I think, like, reoccurring patterns when you're reading all these biographies of future space entrepreneurs. It's just like, you have some of the smartest, most productive people who ever live constantly getting the future wrong. And in many cases, like, just staying in the game long enough to get lucky. Just keep doing it over and over and over again, and trust in yourself that you'll figure it out and you'll make the right decision. You're I mean, think about it. You guys have been around for what? Seventeen months? Right? And even that short seventeen month period.

Speaker 2: Closer than I am. Wow. Right?

Speaker 6: Am I right

Speaker 1: or no?

Speaker 2: Been able to say it all

Speaker 1: the time. Okay.

Speaker 2: But, yeah.

Speaker 6: So so So in that short seventeen month period, you've probably made 10,000 little decisions about your business, 5,000, like, whatever the number is, it's a lot. And just these little ways Henry Singleton, I guess, had the best way to put this. So Henry Singleton is the guy that Warren Buffett said that it's a crime that schools, business schools don't study him. Charlie Munger said that Henry Singleton was the smartest person he ever met. He's

Speaker 1: Never heard of him.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. Okay. Teledyne Corporation. It was a conglomerate back in like the 6000.

Speaker 2: Singles did ever go money spread. Do you have chrome?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know did he wear chrome?

Speaker 6: I don't know. What what is this? Chrome Hearts?

Speaker 1: No. I I'm just joking. But I said I don't know because I want you to explain.

Speaker 6: So his whole thing was just like, you know, he doesn't have a master plan. He's like, like to come to work every day and steer the boat, like, a little bit every day. And this guy was like, you know, again, Munger said he's the highest IQ person, smartest person he ever met. And he's just like, don't have a grand plan. He's just like, I'm just gonna come to work and, like, make a little adjustments every single day. I just know I'm gonna keep doing this for, you know, decade after decade. And I think he ran his company for, twenty five years or something like that.

Speaker 2: Fun Mhmm. Stuff. We have Jake Paul joining us in just a few minutes. He's running late.

Speaker 1: Can you hang out for a bit?

Speaker 6: Yeah. You want me to?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Hang

Speaker 1: out. Like, till we till we get off? Yeah.

Speaker 6: For sure.

Speaker 1: Sweet. Cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well, great catching up with you. We gotta talk about the Shrek. The Shrek. It's a Shrek themed truck. They did it.

Speaker 1: Love you.

Speaker 2: It's breaking news. You gotta cover it on the show. Let's pull up.

Speaker 1: See you

Speaker 6: a bit.

Speaker 2: Can we pull up the Shrek? This is important news. Everyone needs to know. We were talking about the GT three RS from Porsche that is Buzz Lightyear themed. We were joking about a Shrek themed Ferrari Luche, but it turns out that some entrepreneur, some some enterprising young man on Instagram reels created a Shrek. It's a Shrek themed truck. And we have a video here in the timeline right after the GTA six cover art that was revealed earlier today. GTA six, of course, is releasing November 19. But let's play this video. I don't even need the IEMs. We can hear it. There you go. The Shrek. Do you wanna watch Shrek tonight? Absolutely.