Dylan Byers breaks down the Paramount-WBD merger fight: why California AG Rob Bonta's case is 'archaic' and the threat to leave Hollywood

agents. Whether you're writing code, analyzing data, creating content, or automating business workflows, Codex helps you move projects forward from start to finish. And our next guest is in the waiting room. We have Dylan Buyers from Puck. He's the founding partner and he's here to get us up to speed on Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery and the acquisition. How you doing, Dylan?

I'm good, gentlemen. How are you doing?

Have you been on vacation? You look incredibly tan.

Very tan. Yeah. What's going on? What's the secret?

I'm tan. I'm unckempt.

Uh I I eat No, I'm I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I've been trapesing around the Pacific Northwest for the last month.

You've been trapesing.

Business or pleasure?

Yes. Like a logger?

Little bit of both.

Uh business and pleasure. I was in Sun Valley uh uh during the Allen and Company conference to meet with a bunch of folks who were there.

Uh and then I'm I thank you. And then I um I I'm from here. I grew up in Seattle. So, you know, what better place to spend the summer?

We had a question about Sun Valley. Who had the bulkiest security guard? Who you know historically physically? Oh, yes. Bigger.

Historically, it's Bezos. I know. I know Barry Weiss has some beefy security guards. I read about that in the New York Post.

Yes, I did.

I didn't see them. I didn't see any security guards there. You know, here's what I will say about Sun Valley about the Allen and Company conference.

It is remarkable how little I mean, they they they create a security perimeter, but it's very subtle. And it is remarkable how comfortable all of these executives who are used to security details, how comfortable they are just moving around the property. They really feel like there's minimal um minimal attention even to the fact that they're there from the locals. Uh other than like myself and and reporters from Bloomberg and CNBC, they are largely left alone and they feel that.

Sure. Uh how what is the interaction? We always see those photos of like the line of microphones at the fence for the, you know, ad hoc interview. Obviously, there are scheduled interviews with CNBC and Bloomberg sometimes and sitdown interviews, but uh what is the day-to-day of actually reporting on Sun Valley like? Are you grabbing quotes from people or are you meeting with

No, I go I I different strokes for different folks, right? I mean, there are historically there have been like New York Post reporters who go there and uh once in a blue moon try to breach a security line uh and and get color and quotes. I go there to meet with people off the record. That's like for me like that is the world I cover those executives be they in media, tech, entertainment, whatever. Yeah. And I uh I have off thereord meetings with them at a cafe uh uh on the property. Uh there are others who go there and do get interviews like Julia Bourstein of CNBC always gets three or four interviews.

Um

it depends. But what I do not do, uh, thankfully, gratefully, I do not stand there at the front and shout questions at people who then just sort of like wave at you, which is really their way of giving the finger, save for David Zazz, who's like a moth to the flame of a microphone and will come over and always give a good quote.

I love it. Uh, how real is the, uh, the meme that like this is where the mega mergers are birthed? This is the place where the ideas come together. The merger that you'll hear about in a year for hundred billion dollars, it all starts at Sun Valley.

Well, look, here's the deal. I I've I have I have um I've tried to set the record straight on this. Deals do happen there. Often times they happen as the culmination of conversations that happened well before Sun Valley and occasionally like conversations start there. And I don't want to downplay that like it is true like if you just you know this year I there's not much that I know of at least yet. Sometimes we don't know about it till later.

If you look at last year like yes Apple got the rights to F1

um at Sun Valley and there were meetings between um uh Liberty and uh ESPN and Apple and Apple won. Sun Valley last year was where not only Larry or sorry David Ellison but also Matias Duffner Axel Springer and the Murdochs came and tried to court Barry Weiss and of course uh David Ellison won that one. So yes, deals do happen. I think what I reject, and I've written about this, I reject the notion that all of these people with their uh private jets uh who basically run on similar circuits throughout the year. Um that somehow like if Sun Valley didn't happen, they would have no way to make deals happen. Somehow these brilliant people, these brilliant entrepreneurs and executives who have managed to like run their businesses successfully and are always thinking not just months but years if not decades ahead are like, "Oh, I happen to be in Sun Valley with this person and therefore I will buy the Washington Post." Sorry, that's not the way it works. But um but that said, everyone loves coming here because it is the same reason I love going there. It's shooting fish in a barrel. It's just like speed dating with everyone you want to see and it's just extraordinarily convenient. And then going back to my point about the Pacific Northwest in the summer, there are worse places to be than amid the quaking aspens, you know, in Ketchum uh in July.

Yeah, that's great.

Well said.

Uh so get us up to speed on what's going on with the Warner Brothers Discovery acquisition. uh maybe a little bit of the prehistory just to refresh on where the deal stands and then the latest back and forth that emerged last week trickling into this week. Yeah, look, David Ellison has uh had to jump hurdle after hurdle to try and get this deal done. Obviously, $111 billion deal, bring Warner Brothers Discovery into the fold with Paramount. And um the last hurdle that he might face some challenges in the UK, but really the last hurdle here in the states now that he's cleared everything with the Trump administration are these uh Democratic state attorneys general led by California AG Rob

Bont.

Finally, uh Bont came out this week uh sort of very cinematic. He was like on a trail in front of the Hollywood sign

and uh

and and effectively said like yes, we are suing. we are trying to block this deal. Here's why. We can get into it. It is very hard for me to see that he has a um a strong case for blocking the deal. That he and and the other agents have a strong case for blocking the deal. Because if you think about it, like David Ellison wants Warner Brothers Discovery to have some semblance of the scale that would be required to compete in a world that is dominated by, you know, like pick your brand, Netflix, YouTube, Tik Tok,

Apple, Amazon, like the list goes on. And so what what Bont and Co are doing is sort of presenting this like very strict definition that is rather archaic, right? It has to do with like theatrical distribution, cable distribution, um issues like that. And I get from a political perspective why he feels the need to do that. And and I think they're probably political ramifications for him if he didn't do that. But the notion I mean like just think about it on his face. You we all live in the real world in 2026. The notion that somehow a combined Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery, a combined CBS, CNN, a combined uh got what are the streaming services? HBO Max, Paramount Plus is going to be this like massive dominant um uh business that is going to somehow like like you know corner every aspect of the market. That's just not real. That's not the world we're living in. And so I think Bl has an uphill climb in that regard. But he can certainly create headaches and and certainly legal fees uh for Ellison for for many months. And so the zooming out the the like Hollywood is under attack loosely or or facing competition from tech platforms YouTube, Instagram and so time time and attention is more broad than just Hollywood. And so I with that backdrop while consolidation might not be good within the view of Hollywood there's less buyers for movies. It might be a defensive move in a world where you're facing extra competition for attention across the internet.

Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's just how do you define the competitive marketplace? And if you're talking about, you know, the fact that look, Hollywood has Hollywood is in decline. I don't think anyone can dispute that. And frankly, like there are comparisons to Detroit, you know, of of of decades ago. And I don't know, you guys are in Hollywood. I live in Hollywood. sometimes it certainly

there's this notion that okay we used to have six studios and then we have five studios and if we have four studios that's going to be a problem and so all of this sort of you know the there are all these negotiations over okay well we'll release 30 films a year we'll keep both studios open we'll have a 45day theatrical window and I I'm sorry but that's just that is not where the that is not where consumers are that is not what consumers care about that's just not what the market cares about like you're Not people aren't people people don't think that the one form of entertainment that they have

uh in the world exists in a theater and they care about a 45 theatrical day window like we live I I mean to even say that we live in an era of like Netflix and YouTube almost seems p when you think about everything coming down the pipeline in terms of AI platforms and everything else. So, it just seems like remarkably outdated, which I I I suppose is a um an ever evergreen commentary anytime you have Washington going up against uh business, entertainment, media, tech.

Uh and again, I just don't I don't see how Bont wins that case.

Jordy, do you have a question?

Yeah, I was just the the how did the the threat to to leave California? because it feels like there's a short-term incentive to uh stop consolidation in Hollywood, but if you wind up with, you know, studios leaving Hollywood, well, you've lost the war, even if you won the battle. But uh how how

it's just reminding it's just reminding me of the

of the whole Getty Images Shutter Shutter Stock deal, which is

uh was announced in January of last year. It was a $2 billion merger at the time. Now, both companies are worth roughly like 300 million in the public market. So, two companies that are under attack.

And I'm sympathetic to the idea that that this does create like a stock photo monopoly. But in the world of AI image generation,

like a monopoly in the real world, stock photos actually taken with a camera is probably the only thing that can go up against just random image gen. And so, it's a very logical move. But yes,

well, look, let me let me just say first about the threat to leave California. One, everything that you every headline we see um needs to be viewed through the through the lens of brinksmanship, right? Everything is basically trying to win the hearts and minds um of of anyone who's paying attention to this deal. And the threat to leave California all of a sudden would seem like if you take it at face value would seem to reverse the narrative. It's like, okay, Bont's, you know, ostensibly coming out here to try and fight on behalf of Hollywood and like lo and behold, his measures are going to drive Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery out of Hollywood.

A lot of people, I think, looked at that and thought that that was a bluff and there's no world in which, you know, Paramount WBD can can leave Hollywood.

Yeah.

I I don't know. I I mean, look, I do think it is a bit of a bluff. I do think it's bringsmanship. On the other hand, as as folks I spoke to reminded me like David Ellison did not get into this business either um to just have like an old-fashioned Hollywood business that couldn't really compete with the big tech players, nor did he get into it in a David Zazloff kind of way to just like flip the business in 3 years. He's young. He's into like he he has he has uh ambitions of grandeur. He has ambitions of empire building. He really does believe that he can position this company to compete with uh with all those other companies we've already mentioned. And if you think about it through that lens, is he nostalgic about Hollywood itself and like the actual location of Los Angeles? No. If you look at what his father did with Oracle, he moved Oracle from Redwood City to Austin. I believe now it's moving from Austin to Tennessee. Um

and there's other precedent, right? You have uh Tesla, you have Chevron, you have um Packard,

Disney too moved a lot of people to Florida uh during co and there was a lot of backlash and not everyone moved and they still have a huge presence and now is like you know 30 years ago if you said yeah I'm going to have one of the biggest entertainment companies in the world it's not going to be based in Hollywood you would have been laughed at but now you talk to anybody here that's like actively making movies, TV shows, etc. And they're already traveling a bunch. So, it truly doesn't need to be here.

Mhm.

No, you're you're traveling a lot. Um, different states have different incentives for film making. And by the way, like go back to the Oracle Tesla examples, like you still have businesses here. You can you could you could theoretically have a Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery based in Austin or Nashville or anywhere else that still had studio lots in California. and to the the uh the you know the folks in the writer room, the showrunners, the talent, they wouldn't know the difference. So like and the only person who would feel the difference

is Rob Bont who suddenly would not be on the end of what uh David Ellison is touting as a $30 billion investment.

Yeah. And at a certain point, Bont is walking a very fine line because he's trying to fight for Hollywood, but he's running the risk of alienating um one of Hollywood's most valuable players right now. And so it it's it's just it's it's politics. It's pure politics. And another point I brought up this week in my writing is like just to underscore how much this is politics, I want you to imagine that David Ellison, who by the way is not some like right-wing MAGA guy. Like he's not he's donated to Biden, whatever. He's really just a pragmatist who's trying to get a deal done. He he would

he took Trump to uh ringside at the UFC. He went to the State of the Union address. He held a he held a private dinner for Trump in his administration before the White House correspondents dinner. All of that to like the folks in the newsroom at CBS News looks like uh you know he's like the the the new Rupert Murdoch. Sure. The truth is is if Kla Harris or Joe Biden were in power, he would have done the same thing. It just would have been at like you know the the US Open or Wimbledon instead of a UFC match. and and like and the fact of the matter is is that in that scenario, Rob Bont would probably not be bringing this case and it would probably be Republican AGs who would be who would be trying to bring this case and I think we have to be honest about the politics there.

Yeah, I like the idea of tennis at the White House. Maybe that'll happen soon, right? Yeah. US Open on the White House lawn. Yeah, maybe just all sports should be a sports venue and they should just have the hockey and then ba basketball and then baseball.

Did they Was there adequate sponsorship? I didn't watch the UFC match on the White House law. Was there adequate sponsorship? Like did they milk that for our

Not nearly enough. We could have gone way further.

Yeah, it's it's unclear.

There were a lot of sponsorships.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I remember a specific image of Justin Gachi, the you know the American champion who who won his fight uh doing a backflip with a poly market logo and you can see the the White House in the backgrounds.

It was very iconic image.

Yeah. Uh can you talk about the debate that sprung up I think a little bit earlier once the merger was confirmed around the duplicative studios Paramount Warner Brothers they have two when we say studios there's the abstract concept but there's also like the physical historical locations that are very meaningful there was this discussion over are is one going to be turned into apartment buildings and uh that feels like sad from a I love Hollywood perspective also if you're a housing person it feels like maybe it'd be good to bring down housing But um but but at least uh the reporting that I saw from from Puck uh was there was a lot of push back towards like don't ruin this amazing financial historical uh institution. Uh is that chip still on the table? Has that been resolved? Because there's been a lot of uh like uh okay, we're making this pledge. We won't do this. We won't we won't cut. And I'm just wondering if any of those chips come back on the table. Well, here's what here's what I would say to to the one thing that Bont has gotten right. Forgive me because I I forget verbatim what he said, but effectively like in in in spirit, it's I can't regulate pledges,

right? And and that's true. And like

there is so much that is going to be said which you should effectively take with the same grain of salt that you take from like a a political candidate who tells you everything they will and won't do in office. like, yes. Is he committed right now to 30 films a year? Is he committed to a 45day theatrical window? Is he committed, again, I don't have the latest on this, but to keeping both studios open? Sure.

Once you've got the deal and once all of this is behind you, are there ways in which you can sort of finesse one of those lots into something else for your business and then maybe finesse that real estate

out of the portfolio to save some money?

Yes. And that will 100 100% happen. I think about this, you know, I cover this deal a lot at the news level and the sort of like tie-up of CBS and CNN. The minute this deal happens, folks at Paramount are going to start looking how to offload the real estate that is currently used by CBS News and move CBS News operations into Hudson Yards

at CNN. And why you do that? because you have $80 billion of debt and because you have promised synergies and there's no world in which you're sitting there with two lots that are duplicative that do the exact same thing and think like in order to honor the history of Hollywood uh we will continue we will continue spending twice as much money as we need to. It's just not going to happen. especially not in the news business. Like

no and definitely not like uh you can sort of make the claim around specific film studios being historically important to Hollywood. Hollywood means films, but when you think about the the what it actually takes to run CNN and CBS News, like there are tons of overlapping just pieces of equipment that you're like, "Oh, that teleprompter there and that backdrop and that lighting is like all the same." And sure, and look look like I am sure there are some Scott P types who have very warm feelings about the labyrinthine halls of the CBS News headquarters up on up in uh uptown Manhattan. But

there was a group of folks from CBS News who went to Hudson Yards who went to Atlanta to tour it and they're like, "Holy [ __ ] these facilities are a lot nicer than ours. These are great. This is it would actually be a lot easier to create TV here." So that that will be really easy. And look, I I think there's as someone who covers change in the media space, there's always so much panic and nostalgia anytime anything changes because you think that thing that changing is sacrosen. And the truth is is that it usually takes a matter of weeks or months before everyone sort of comes around to the new status quo and gets very comfortable with it. And that inevitably is what is going to happen here. Uh, speaking of change in the media industry, have you noticed I mean you you report and operate at what I see as like a very very high level, the executives, the the the mega deal makers. Um, but have you seen any uh knock-on effects from the the summer of YouTube blockbusters that we've been talking about here from the creator economy perspective? You have uh Iron Lung from Markiplier, uh, Obsession, Back Rooms. There's a number of YouTubers who sort of uh you know labored away in obscurity and then just put up incredible numbers at the box office. It feels like Hollywood might be looking for more scripts, more interesting IP, less sequels, less boughtin things, but uh is there any individual studio that's excited about that trend or anything that you're seeing that's actually rising to the level of your reporting?

I here here's what I say. I do not have as good of an insight into this as I do into other other things we've been discussing. But here's what I will say just from a distance.

The every studio is thinking about um how do we like all the way to A24, right, which is sort of like the bell of the ball when it comes to quality content in Hollywood is thinking about like how do we incorporate AI into what we are doing. And I think the signal that those uh creators sent with films like Obsession and others is like this can be done and this can be successful. Does it mean that you know like every human being is going to go away and we're going to stop? Like no it does not.

I think that most folks will learn will find ways to incorporate this in in ways that does not um significantly like degrade the value of the content that they're making. But I think the sky's is the limit. Like I I I really think that those examples have shown that this can be done and that there is more opportunity here than the folks who are sort of like clutching to Hollywood's past have realized. And by the way, that doesn't need to be disruptive in a bad way. That can represent like extraordinary opportunities in in the same way like you guys talk about this day in and day out. AI creates extraordinary opportunities in every aspect of of business, industry, commerce, everything else. And like that can happen here too in ways where the human element remains.

Mhm.

How much are you tracking uh these AI short form vertical drama apps? There's I'm counting three in the top 25 of the US iPhone app store right now. There's vibe shorts, AI comic dramas, net short, exclusive short drama video, space exclamation point, and then story reel exclusive drama.

I'm not follow I'm not following any of this. It sounds just hearing you see it, read it, it sounds like is is this just quibby AI?

Yeah, it's AI AI Quibby. Uh Katenberg Katzenberg entirely vindicated on on the format. Um, but uh but yeah, I I've just been I don't know anyone that uses these apps. I think we need to have Tyler on our team just spend like

an entire weekend watch every single one of these and and review them for us. But I it's funny to me that that these are these apps are seemingly being created not within the tech industry. They're tech they're technology products

and not within Hollywood. So it's like entirely just you know outsider groups that are

ranking the hoverboard

that are ranking

like net short and vibe short are both outranking Kshi Paramount Poly Market like during these massive sporting events right I mean I guess like

and like Vibe Short is outranking Gemini and Anthropic by a very meaningful margin. Yeah, I guess here's what here's what I'd say and I I'm granted like I'm a very poor authority on this because my entire content has been like World Cup in Wimbledon or just staring at the quaking aspens in Sun Valley. Um, here's what here's what I would say. As in every other industry, like the technology has democratized the ability to do things, right? And so the like to bring this conversation full circle, there's no no real reason anymore that this has to happen in Hollywood. Now I'm not suggesting that like you know every institution just goes away obviously but what I am saying is like there is you cannot look at something like the success of the YouTube creators or the engagement that these these uh short form platforms you're seeing like the engagement that they're seeing and just dismiss that as a fad. That is that is that is a total uh reorientation of of the possibilities that exist for people to come along and just create something that is going to be a massive hit. And and again to bring this back to the to Ellison and to Bont, you cannot argue that people who can put movies in cinemas on Hollywood Boulevard are somehow in a different business than the people who are making

AI generated shorts. Yeah,

it is solely a question of where people are spending their time and then whether or not that time that time and engagement can be monetized

and that and it does not matter what category that falls into. It's just a matter question of eyes on screens.

Do you have a view on how US China relations might evolve with regard to Hollywood? because it feels like some of the video models coming out of China are a little too good and they might be uh they might be training on some uh Hollywood intellectual property uh across across different studios and it feels like in order to actually take a lawsuit to the finish line or have any sort of settlement or retribution or some sort of uh even just truce to not allow you to put Mickey Mouse or Spider-Man or Batman in an AI generated open- source video model or something like that. Uh it might require Hollywood sort of teaming up going to Washington asking for some sort of concession or you know deal within the construct of like the larger trade negotiations around rare earth and it could be one of many bullet points in a new deal.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean I do say like and we we're here and we've been here for a long time like China somehow seems to be the great unifier when it comes to businesses saying like basically as the antithesis right like the the

it has been years that I have been hearing tech executives invoke China

as a way to try and push back on regulation of US companies. Oh,

I can certainly see a world in which China becomes like the, you know, what's the term the bug bear like that gets Hollywood to basically come together, work with uh regulators and say like we need to protect this because this is American and that is a very palatable argument for the folks in Washington or the folks in Sacramento.

Yeah, I can to I I I can totally see that. I guess the the the thing I would say though is I think what what businesses really want is to be able to play in that market. And I don't I think at at a certain point like your ideal outcome is a way to protect your own um IP, your own technology while also being able to open up what is obviously like a an incredibly robust and and large market and work with them as well. And that is, you know, that's a negotiation that obviously like Tim Tim Cook has been involved in for a long time. A lot of this when it comes to the US China stuff is above my pay grade, but that is sort of my sense of what will happen.

Last question.

Quaking aspens, you've mentioned them twice. Are you arbor what is arborist?

Arborist.

Are you into trees or is this just something everyone that goes to Sun Valley recognizes about the trees?

Here's what here's Thank you for asking. I've been wanting to talk about this for a long time.

Um, no, here's what I think. I wish I could convey to people I I'm very privileged in my position as covering the world that I cover

to get to go like it it is sort of a treat of the media tech entertainment space that these guys all sort of choose to convene in the Mountain West.

Yep.

So depending on where you are in the sort of hierarchy like you're either going to Sun Valley or Jackson. There are many retreats sort of in Colorado. A lot of these guys own ranches from like Montana down to Utah. Uh there there's of course like the Aspen Ideas Festival.

It is just like a real pleasure that these guys chose to convene there as opposed to say Cleveland, right? Or like just do everything in New York City.

Like CES is in Vegas and that would be, you know, where you'd be if you were on the electronics beat probably.

Thank Thank god I'm not. Thank god I'm no longer the politics beat and have to go to like Iowa and New Hampshire every year. And I just if if there's any way to just sort of convey the atmospherics of that world. Um I I know of no better way than than like the lull of the quaking aspens and the occasional sound of like a Gulfream

jet taking off on the tarmac.

Beautiful. Are you writing a book right now?

I don't know yet.

I think you should be. You're tan. You're hanging out in the mountains. It seems like you have an incredible energy.

Maybe an audio book since the last time we were on here through it.

Okay.

Maybe an audio book. And it's just a recording of the quaking aspens and the sound of Gulf Streams passing by. There you go.

To fall to sleep to fall asleep to

uh Thank you so much for coming on the show. This is great to see you.

Have a great rest of your summer. Hope to see you soon and we'll talk to you later. Have a good one.

Cheers.

Goodbye. Let me tell you about Figma. Agents meet the canvas. Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system context. The quaking aspen tree. They're defined by natural the natural feature of Sun Valley Idaho landscape. Famous for their pale white bark and shimmering a autumn foliage. The quake is a flat leaf stems that cause the leaves to flutter and rustle at the slightest breeze. So, when you look at

Dan says, "Gulfream ASMR."

GFream ASMR might be a market.

Tyler, I need you to watch a few vibe shorts, a few net shorts, and a few story reels by tomorrow.

Mhm.

Deal.

Deal.

Deal. And we're going to

I don't know if we can watch them on the