Saagar Enjeti on prediction markets, data center NIMBYism, AI jobs, and the US housing crisis

Okay. The Fed, America, and Well, let's bring in Sager and Jetty uh and and get the get the get the betting starting. Let's bring him in.

How you how you doing?

I can't even breathe. I can't breathe much. I cannot.

Well, go. Props to your team for creating that. I

The website is live. It's all play money and there's a disclosure at the bottom. We can send you the link and you can have some fun on Sagvet.

We're just going to leave this up the whole time while you monologue

and and every single chart is active and live concert.

I am not even going to be able to make it through this. That is so hard.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for this camp on this day. Thank you.

True, true, true nightmare fuel for Sire and Jetty. Um, but I wanted I wanted to talk about housing. Um, should we talk about prediction markets first? Should we should we debate uh the level of uh of where the data should be used? Is that a good place to start? Because we were we were chatting.

What do you guys want? Yeah, go ahead. I mean, I know you're request coming into this was I don't want any Cali ads on my soccer is okay, I guess. So pure play money.

So there was uh news I I guess in the last 24 hours that uh I think Khi is exploring um being able to trade on potential airport delays. Interesting.

Um and that was interesting uh for

we're going to get crazy stories where people like intentionally delay the flight to win a bet, right? Is that what you're saying?

That that's kind of that's kind of my concern because

basically what's happened already weather. I'm sure you saw Well, no. I'm saying all these hairdryer markets. Exactly. With the haird dryer. I believe they're also No, this is Poly Market. This is not Cali, which is offering odds on the Odyssey box office, which this is off of a viral tweet, so I could be totally wrong, which I they said is in violation of a specific element of US law. So, you know, that's kind that's kind of where things are here in terms of offering commodity markets on box offices. I was actually addicted to uh fantasy movies.

If any of my soccer bats hit, just feel free to scream. Now, I'll mail you the check.

No, no. I I was fully hooked on uh fantasy movie premieres uh with a with a group of friends. So, it's like fantasy football, but every week you have to build a a a a theoretical theater and you can pick like I want the Odyssey and then I want Obsession and you and you have a certain budget to allocate and then based on the box office numbers you can win or lose and some people go really deep. There's no money on the line. It was just for fun with friends. Uh and it was it made me really engaged in what was going on in Hollywood and I was tracking every movie and some people build whole like Excel models for it and they go crazy with it. Uh but of course it's now financialized.

Yeah. But I don't I don't uh I I can I can imagine the argument for why being able to trade your flight being delayed. I can imagine the argument. You know, it's very inconvenient, right? You're going on this vacation. Why not hedge it? Um but at the same time, I don't I can't imagine how it doesn't end in disaster where you have these sort of global you have global markets. You could have someone in another country call the call the local police in a certain place and say

like, "Hey, you know, I'm planning blah blah blah." Uh it would just be so easy uh to create a a delay. Um, not to me not to mention all the airport employees that are working these like

really really hard jobs, you know, making probably something close to minimum wage and we'll just be having the, you know, saggger bet in their pocket saying, uh,

you guys are but yeah, let's see John Steelman this.

All right, let's see. Let's see. Yeah, the the the the steelman is uh is I don't have good information on even if I don't want to trade, even if I don't want to participate at all financially, I like the idea of being able to pull up a website that will give me the odds that my flight is delayed and I can make just a rational decision on when I get to the airport. You know, I'm getting there 5 minutes before, but I could get there 10 minutes after the plane's supposed to leave if there's an expected delay.

And and why do you need Kouchy for this? Exactly. Uh, do do you not have

John wants John wants the largest to me. I feel like it's gonna say, "Oh, yeah, it's totally on time." And then I get there and it's going to delay. Whereas

all of his data is public. Like, are you a frequent flyer? Do you not just go on the airport website and look at the departed and the actual time? Like, people have been doing this for

Look what he's wearing. Does this guy look like a frequent flyer to you?

I'm not a frequent flyer. Um, but uh but I mean this gets to the this gets to the the the sports betting thing, too. Like I I personally I personally like to just know who's expected to win the World Cup and I don't have a problem with that information being pulled into other sources, Google, chatbt. I I like just seeing like a yes or no. I've previously looked up like casino betting lines and it's hard for me to instantly uh you know interpret like oh it's plus four and a half. I'm like I don't know what that means. Just tell me like what are the odds that the

That's why on bet everything is just in percentages. Make it really easy. That is smart. No. Someone in the chat says, "What if the Dan says, "What if the pilots and crews got a certain number of shares on?" No.

Incentivizes on.

They're like, "Captain, Captain, I don't think we could I don't think we should take off like you know, the the engine looks like, you know, it's having a little bit of trouble." Chat is probably just already creating incentivized bonus systems that are already tracked within the airline network. You know, it's like you don't need cash or poly market to do any of this stuff. You think American Airlines doesn't track all of that and create like incentive

based in the future you won't even buy a ticket. You'll just buy you'll just buy yes on a contract that someone will fly me from Los Angeles to San Francisco and so or no. Yeah. And then someone will buy the Yes. fly me there and then they will collect whatever I deposit.

All right. Let's zoom back though because the information point is important and and and you're not wrong. That's actually that's a genuine utility that I think a lot of casual people have come I always come back to the systems themselves. So when you talk about sports betting sure it's nice necessarily for a casual person like us. But what is that being propped up on and also what is it incentivizing? First of all, your assumption is that the sports line what is indicative of a market. Now, that's not even necessarily true, especially whenever it comes to a sports bet. The line is built in order to hedge what the casino needs plus or minus in terms of the money for how they're going to break even andor profit whenever it comes to that. So, remember, it's not the true market for what it is. And the line moves all the time based around the amount of money coming in. Whales can distort the line. So, let's just remember that whenever it comes to that. The secondary thing is again like you I don't think that you need KI poly market FanDuel or DraftKings to have a general idea of who you think is going to win especially when all of this is based not just on metrics but on public opinion on record like for a casual football fan I could understand the case that you're making but my my main point is that you know potential benefit does not in any way justify you know the immense harm that gambling to the vast majority of it, you know, whenever it comes to theformational purposes, but it's just not worth it in terms of theory go to an AI app of my choice and say, "Hey, uh, ignore the betting markets. Uh, I want to know who's going to win the the the World Cup. go around and just read everything written by every analyst and do your own research and then just come back to me with the summary and put it in a percentage odds for me because that's I I want to know is it dramatic that France is up right now and and that adds to my experience of watching even if I have no money on the line I want to see I want to know if it's a if it's a comeback watch sports for a long time

so you're you're advocating you're advocating to to leverage advance artificial intelligence.

You're saying we need way more data centers.

Uh oh, I know. I would not say the president said that today. Did you see it? I sent it to you.

Oh, yeah. I I sent it I texted it to you before I came on. I was like, "Guys, this is this is uh bait uh for for our show." So, I can Can you let me uh Can you let me read it to you,

please? Please. Yeah. Take us through it. Take us through it.

And feel free to do an impression if you want or

Oh, Trump. He said Trump. He just hit on soccer.

We predicted it.

Are you going to share your screen? We can

I would dare bring any of that to you. Okay. Uh let's see here. Sorry.

We can have uh we can have the team uh pull it up too. I just shared it with them too. Uh so they can pull it up and you can

Sorry, Jess. Sorry. It's the data centers aren't working very well.

We need more. We need more.

Yeah. Yeah. There's plenty in my state. Don't worry.

Well, politics and poll tracker said President Trump comes out as pro data center and uh and says New York Governor Kathy Hochel terminated data centers for quote political reasons. The quote from Trump in this tweet is one of the biggest driving forces in the future of J for jobs are data centers. They are big, strong, bold and money machines capitalized uh for the state in which they are built. And is there anything else from that post that you think is worth digging into?

Well, I thought that the most interesting part of the post is not just his defense of data centers, but is the China piece there at the very end. And that was that's kind of been the more interesting part of the debate that I was curious what you guys thought because I don't know if you saw that Kevin Olirri, you know, went on Fox News and he accused the opponents of his data center project in Utah being paid by China. Fox News actually to issue a retraction whenever it came to that claim. And you know, I've talked a lot here about the populist kind of energy around the anti-data center movement and and just generally like I think this is very obvious that Trump and a lot of the Silicon Valley guys are in his ear with their messaging. They seem to think that this China angle is going to influence, you know, this vast general feeling across the nation of being like, well, hold on a second. you know, there's just enough viral stories around noise, about land use, about, you know, just being really unhappy or like having it shoved down their face. Actually, you know, I was originally going to come here to talk about housing is very relevant whenever it comes to housing cuz it gets down to locality and state and local control. Some of that's bad, some of that isn't, but uh, you know, the data center movement is probably like one of the last gasps really of like popular nimism. And what I mean by that is is it's like a popular, you know, most people at this point have turned against Nimi in terms of the general populace. I think most people would agree we need more housing. It gets super complicated when we get down to the local level, but this is one of those last bastions where a large percentage of the public seems really to be against where the president is here on the issue. They don't believe the stuff about the tax revenue. A lot of it comes down to prove it to me. There have been promises. There's a case here actually in Virginia where I live, data center capital of America where you know the data center claimed that they were going to be hooked up to the grid but then they couldn't for some complicated reason. Their generator wine is creating like an insane decibb around a neighborhood. People there are literally losing it stapling plexiglass to their windows so that it's not loudis upgrade the energy infrastructure to run more powerful racks. And so the data center that got originally got approved might have been at a very reasonable level, but then it gets louder over time. And that's what a lot of people don't like. On the China issue, I think there's a few things. Uh first is that I I I think I think I agree with you that you can just walk out anywhere into the world and ask a random person on the street, what do you think of data centers? And they're going to say, I don't like them. And so this is not some like astroturf nonsense. Like it's very clear that there is a populist movement against data centers. That's very obvious. I I believe the polling data um on and then also on the on the question of like will like we can't lose the race to China or we need to build them here instead of China resonate with Americans like I think average Americans like Teimu they like Shien they like cheap stuff from China it's not like people abstractly understand that jobs are important but they also just are fine with like yeah not in my backyard like put it over there

well yeah I think another way to put it is I would say ask most everyday people and they would rather lose the AI race to China than lose their own job.

Right. Exactly. Thank you. You you you guys are just taking my words out of my mouth, man. That's exactly the point I was going to make. They're like, "Lose the race for what? For me to be unemployed." Uh you know what is interesting? John, did you see the journal article?

I'm not even I'm not even saying that. I'm not I'm not saying that's like

the correct view. Yeah. Right. Right.

But uh to be clear, but uh but I I can see exactly why they would believe that.

Yeah. I do think well I sent you that journal article a few weeks back where all these tech CEOs Sam Alman and others all of a sudden they're no longer talking about jobs like Daario and Sam and all they were like well we actually really misspoke in terms of the way that we were talking a year ago. You've talked about this too Jordy about the uh the way that this was used as a fundraising mechanism. Whether or not any of that is true so much of that has now been embied by the general public that it is like a rock solid belief. And so I don't know. I look at the Trump order on the data center uh the data center the Trump truth post post on the data center.

I love how you just assume that since it was on truth social it also was an executive order.

Right.

I mean this was an interesting court case. It I had to correct myself cuz I remember years ago I covered this as a journalist where Trump said I am declassifying all documents. And the New York Times used that in court. They were like well Trump said it. and the DOJ had to say, "Well, actually, a tweet does not equal an executive order." So, it is not an official presidential announcement, but it is a political judgment nonetheless. the China language whenever it comes to attacking his home state of New York with data centers. It's very obvious to me that somebody like kind of got into his ear here on the issue. And I think it is very compelling this Trump knows for certain is that the data center capex spend by a lot of these AI companies is literally propping up the entire United States stock market, which they desperately need at a time right now of sky-high oil crisis. We're renewing the war with Iran, the oil crisis, and all that stuff that's happening. So, it is a very interesting marriage. Like this is one of those marriages where you could see at the beginning with the inauguration of the tech CEOs that flanked Trump, you know, during his swearing in ceremony, but I would not have imagined how cuz I knew how much they needed him. What I didn't realize is how much he would need them to save them on tariffs and on oil. Like if anything, the marriage like the relationship dynamic has really changed, I think, for Trump with AI recently. And it's something I've been there for ant one. jump in on his um

uh and and Tyler on our team just pulled this post up, but he he was saying they stopped saying I was going to AI was going to take jobs because AI has been creating more jobs. So that is that is that is one factor, right? So we know that I like one thing's for sure, we know a lot of big public company CEOs will do a layoff and then say like we did this because of AI and we know that they're lying.

Uh and then we know that there's a bunch of like new company formation There's a bunch of new infrastructure AI has been net job creating. This was not what I expected. Although I was much less pessimistic than others, I thought this level of capability we'd have seen some impact. It is possible this direction keeps going. So that's like the optimistic.

Yeah. There there's a lot of these there's a lot of these sound bites that go out and then either like the reality doesn't match the prediction because the prediction is like 10% chance of a 10% unemployment rate and and and you just hit the 90%. And it's like oh like and then it's like wait you lied and it's like ah you were sort of doing this weird prediction that was odd. Uh and then also some of the some of the major quotes that go viral uh that the one that I always keep coming back to is that Sam Alman in 2015 said like AI will lead to the end of the world and and but but in the meantime great companies will get created. So the next sentence in that clip is and I'm starting a company so that it doesn't go poorly like and and and that always open which is open AI and so

so there are these things where where some of the CEOs will say like there's a problem and we're identifying it early to work on it and then when it doesn't happen people are like you were you know Chicken Little and it's like no I was like Chicken Little but I also like reinforced the sky along the way but just some of the job just just some of the job uh displacement things like it is this constant battle of like is it coming in the future? It's not really showing up yet, but it's a little bit but here and there's so many other things going on in the economy that it's it's very hard to track. But

I just think it comes down to control. And this is what I always talk about with the data center issue. I always talk about this here on the show. People feel so out of control in their lives. And you know, Jordy, whenever you say like they're lying, it doesn't really matter to the person who lost their job. It also doesn't matter to their friends, right?

Yeah. That's that's again to my earlier point. I can they're they're just sort of trusting the person that employed them

uh and and the things that they're putting out online as as a justification for the layoffs.

Yeah. And and then it gets to the data center issue. It's like, wow, we feel like this just getting pllopped down here to do what? So that it could fire me. So I know somebody, my, you know, sister, my cousin or whatever got fired from this job and now they just want to build even more of it. And is this stuff really making me happy? Is it making me thriving? Like that's kind of the interesting point. I think you guys were doing a segment around cars uh before. I always think about this with technology. Um, you know, I've had two wow moments probably with tech in the last like 20 years. Both were hard tech. First was the iPhone. The iPhone 4.

Um, thank you. Uh, the iPhone 4, right, which is I will never forget holding that and just being like, oh my god, like this is it. The second was Tesla. It was full self-driving. It was those are the two like, holy [ __ ] moments that I've had. And I think, you know, look, the Tesla back.

Do you have a bump? Be honest. You have a bumper sticker on your Tesla that says, "I bought this for the autopilot, not because I support Elon Musk."

Uh, you know, I'm I'm neutral.

I support autopilot. I do not support Elon Musk.

A lot of my neighbors in Northern Virginia have it. Don't worry. Uh, I miss out on I do think it's a little different with the Cybert truck. Those people definitely have to put that one on their bumper sticker around here. But yeah, I mean those are what I just think about here with the AI is that even to this moment. Look, making my job more useful on Excel and all that. Cool. I maybe, you know, for some of the spreadsheet jockeyies and stuff, but I still think AI is missing that type of product of moment. I know OpenAI wants to come out with the new speaker, the design uh product was it's it's kind of interesting. I was looking at it a little bit earlier, but that is part of why with the data centers, with the job loss and the feeling of out of control, especially in the current like modern economy and John, you know, you and I have been talking a lot here about housing. I just can't imagine living in San Francisco where the median price is $1.7 million and or and having been around there for a long time or even in the general area and be like, what am I getting out of this? Like it really just feels like so much downward pressure on your ability to and you just have to claw your way out. It's like these larger forces.

I do I do think I do think in in in areas that are not someplace like West Texas that are extremely remote that have massive amounts of energy that are already super pro business and any areas that aren't like that. I do think the solution is effectively direct payments to local residents because I just don't I like people don't believe that oh my, you know, my town is going to have more tax revenue so that's going to benefit me because they're probably already upset with how the town is allocating dollars, right? And I don't believe like a one-time purchase of like a new school bus or a firet truck is like enough, right? It needs to be like, okay, this thing moved into my area and I'm getting a $500 a month a very tangible benefit. And so,

yeah, proposing that

I do think there's going to be a lot of these projects that get to a point where they're at kind of a standstill and the developers are going to have to say, hey, like here's what we're actually going to do. And and in a lot of these towns where there's like not that many people and a data center can generate billions of dollars of of value, I think that that's like a a fair trade.

That's an interesting idea. I definitely think it would help because it just solves the tangible question of like what am I getting out of this, you know? I mean, currently I I do read some fun stories about like random boomers who live in, you know, areas. I was just reading one today in like Pennsylvania where there these like 20 people netted like $580 million selling their land.

A lot of farmlanderforming they sell it.

Yeah. Right. Underperforming farmland.

I'm fascinated by this fact that you didn't uh that you don't call out like the passing of the touring test as a iPhone moment as a Tesla full self-driving moment.

What's it done for me?

It's just fascinating to be able to talk to a computer and have it talk back. It's just interesting. But I do think that you're getting at something which is that instantiation in the physical world is much more tangible, memorable. You like I don't remember where I was the first time I used chat GPT. Even though I was impressed by what's done for me.

Wow. It's like it's like you already forget that you were crying, laughing. I We gave you a belly laugh with that. We built that with one codeex prompt. One codeex prompt gave you a belly laugh. Right. How many belly laughs? I can count on I I can probably count on I can probably count on like two hands how many belly laughs I have a year. Right. And and we just gave you one and that wouldn't have been possible without

universal basic belly laugh.

That's true. Look, all of the all of the uh endorphins that you gave me were great, guys. But you didn't drive me 12 hours and that's pretty sweet. You know, I just did a 12-h hour uh road trip. I barely, you know, had to touch the wheel. That's that is a big [ __ ] deal whenever it comes to you know your own life. Same I mean I again I just come back to the iPhone like iPhone 4 I will literally never forget it. I don't think most people will either. It's part genuinely why it changed the world. So I do think that there's just there needs to be that manifestation like you said John in the physical world. What is this doing for me? Jordy your point about paying people I actually think is a very good idea at least because it it just shows people like tangibly what I'm getting out of this. It also would make it so that it can prove that it's actually going to make money cuz that's one of the other, you know, worries I think for some of the localities is promise tax revenue is not actual tax revenue in the moment. It's like the stadium thing, right? You're like, wait, I have to shell out X, Y, and Z and give up all this local control and then it's eventually going to come to me in the future, even though there's reams of data, let's say, on stadiums and others, that doesn't necessarily work out. So you you got to put it in the context of these bigger projects in a lot of these localities where people have constantly said, "Hey, let's do this semi undesirable thing for you and eventually it will work out." I've talked to you guys about the Amazon experience that we had here in Northern Virginia. Yeah. They're like, "We're going to build it. It's going to be amazing." Dude, the realtors and all that went crazy. They're like, "Oh, don't worry. Your house is going to be near HQ2." And then HQ was like, "Yeah, no. It's just not happening." And people were like, "Oh, okay." You know, it's like that that that's a very scarring experience, I think, for a lot of people.

Yeah. Uh on housing, uh I want to do a quick tier list of ideas to solve the housing crisis. Uh you can rank them. Tell me how they resonate with you. Um first would be national permitting reform, fast approvals, uh much quicker at the national level.

Depends what you mean by that. So they kind of just did national permitting reform at the uh with the housing bill. It just became law like two days ago. I don't know if you saw that. Uh but that is very I mean you can actually go and you could plug it into an AI if you want to and you can even ask hey how much is this going to impact national housing? It's like well not really right because all it does is it it potentially sends more funds to localities which speed up housing but not enough to actually make a meaningful difference for what you're talking about. John, you would need a national permitting reform which effectively allows Okay, let let me explain it this way. You know, police departments where the feds suspect that they're racist, they can come in and just take it over. This is value in terms of my judgment. I'm saying it exists, a consent degree. That's basically what you would need. You would need like x amount units were not approved. The department of let's say housing and urban development, whatever, can come in, look at your books, and be like, "Yeah, this is not happening." Because zoning reform at the local level is the single biggest impediment to actually building more housing. And this is where the trust issue comes for me. You have to make it so that it's actually housing people want. Like one of the biggest beefs with Yimies is a lot of them are childless and they just want to live like in a downtown area for $1,800 a month. And I'm like, yeah, you know, if you have kids, that's not really what you want, right? I've talked to you about Levittown. Uh, one of my favorite books of all time. It's the Oxford history of the United States. It's called Great Expectations. It's about 1945 to the 1970s. Man, you got to study the suburbanization of America and the ingenuity for building these levits, these suburban, highly packed together single family residences, 1500, 2,000 square ft. You have sidewalks. They became family hubs like for being able to walk different places. No garage in some cases. We have carports. Like it was cheap and it was not like McMansion living. That would literally be impossible today. even if you wanted to build it. And you know what the testament to that is? Those original Levittowns now go for like 700,000 bucks. Like they are not at starter home levels and you couldn't even buy it because a lot of the way that the localities in the places even though they were built, the lots and other things are zoned so that you couldn't even build a house that small today. I was looking at so around where I live there's a there's some very lovely trailer parks, right? Uh, and I was like, "This seem and and I was like, "Oh, why aren't we building more trailer parks?" And so I just I went to, you know, my favorite AI chat app and I started having a conversation and very quickly figured out that like trying to create a new trailer park anywhere like close to anywhere you'd actually want to live is just like so incredibly hard. And it does feel like that is a way that you get like a twobedroom two bathroom for you know how how do you make a two-bedroom two bathroom that that you know where like the actual up cost to create the unit is like $100,000 and you know you need you have like some some small fee that you're paying every month you know for amenities or whatever it is and it just like that to me feels like you know I've seen some of these communities where they're like incredible they're safe like families love them. Uh, again, you're there's trade-offs. You don't have the massive garage and, you know, all the square footage, but like totally livable for a young family. And I know plenty of families that could basically buy any house they want in LA and they spend like half the year living in, you know, a a trailer park, right? Just because it's like very enjoyable. So, I do think that that's a solution. And I would hope that there's some way to, you know, 100x the approval rate of even new communities like that.

Exactly.

Just to get people into a space so they feel like

Yeah. You're talking about the lowest of the low level like in terms of entry point. I'm not against that at all. I want to build this stuff everywhere, not just trailer parks. Like I want to build these Levittown style houses, but this is the market dynamic. John, I do have to go in a few minutes if that's okay. Uh but John, one thing that I do want to emphasize is this is where the feds guaranteeing some of the fees and other things that the developers have to pay is really important. This is what I learned from that book is that we were heavily subsidizing a lot of those initial fees which drive up a lot of the cost, the approval and it creates the market incentive for the developer. Right now a lot of the developers when they do build these new housing units, they need to make profit. So that means they're going to build within the existing zoning structure and for the customer usually a boomer or a very very rich person who can afford to buy at a high and a premium level which means that the so-called starter home is now part of this very limited amount of housing stock and that's what prices it here in Northern Virginia those 1960s ranchers which are I mean they're not big 2500 ft something like that they are going for a million dollar in a good school district1 million Right. So, a million dollar for a 1960s barely renovated rancher. This is the story I think across the entire nation. So, the per $400,000 of combined family income to afford it. It's a lot.

Bingo. Yeah. 400 grand in combin or you need to have a VA loan or something like that. Otherwise, you're cooked. It's not happening.

Anyway, we'll solve it on the next appearance. Thank you so much.

Here's an idea I want you to sit with. I want you to sit with before you leave. Saggers razor is the idea that any any any sort of positive impact of prediction markets can be delivered with powerful AI.

Razor.

Yes.

Seriously, thank you for the bet thing. It made me I can't wait to show my wife.

Yeah, we'll send you the link.

So funny. It is so funny.

We'll send you the link.

Yeah. Uh hopefully I appreciate the time.

Hopefully you don't spend all night all night staying up playing it. It it it can be addictive. It can be addictive these things. You know,

it is addictive.

I wouldn't be surprised if you get uh sucked into it. Here in Texas, we'll see you later.

Have a good one. We'll talk to you soon.

Let me tell you about Railway. Railway is the all-in-one intelligent cloud provider. Use your favorite agent to deploy web apps, servers, databases, and more. While Railway automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security. Sagger always gets the people going in the chat, but uh we we really enjoy these conversations and I think it's I think it's super important to uh have conversations with people that are outside of our little beautiful technology bubble.

Yes.

So, yes. Uh well, we have our next guest joining in just a few minutes. Uh there is there are a few posts in the timeline that we can run through. A quick news hit. We talked about uh Paramount yesterday and the potential that David Ellison would be taking Paramount outside of California as a response to uh Attorney General Rob Bont uh potentially blocking the Warner Brothers discovery and uh Paramount deal. Now, Tennessee is courting Paramount and the studio is allegedly considering it according to the Hollywood Reporter. Uh just wanted to give everyone a quick update there. In other news, Italy's oldest dairy taps new way to borrow against cheese.

That's huge.

An Italian dairy just raised 10 million euros by securitizing wheels of aging cheese through an SPV.

The cheese SPV is great.

Private credit is reportedly circling the structure next.

I would love for uh a cheese bubble. Who knows? Maybe keep it in the fondue. I want I want some exposure.