Science Corporation receives CE Mark in Europe for retinal prosthesis that restores vision to the blind

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Speaker 2: Alright. Thank you so much for coming on the show. A pleasure. Have a great rest of your day.

Speaker 5: For sure. We'll talk guys.

Speaker 2: Soon. Yep. I'm gonna tell everyone about Cisco. Critical infrastructure for the AI era. Unlock seamless real time experiences. A new value with Cisco. And our next guest is in the waiting room. We got Max Hodak from the Science Corporation. He's the founder and CEO. We kept him waiting, but Max, how you doing? Welcome back to the show.

Speaker 7: Hey, guys. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: Great to see you. Give us the update. What's the news?

Speaker 7: So previously, we've talked about I've told you about our retinal prosthesis. So we have a chip that's implanted in the eye to restore vision to patients that have lost lost it due to the death of the rodent cone, specifically Yes. Macular degeneration. So last week, we got marketing approval in Europe. So we've received the CE mark, which is

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 7: Like, it will be shortly available to consumers and

Speaker 1: you're like

Speaker 2: I got a question. I got a question. So Jordy has this problem where he drinks too many beers and he gets double vision. Can this help with that?

Speaker 7: Fortunately not.

Speaker 2: Wait. Wait. Wait. Jokes aside, scientifically, it cannot?

Speaker 7: Double vision from drinking?

Speaker 6: Yes. Probably not.

Speaker 2: Impossible. It's the last it's the last scientific problem. We'll never solve it.

Speaker 1: Anyway. Very funny. More seriously, how quickly how like, what does a go to market look like for a product like this? You have approval.

Speaker 2: Step one's approval. But Yeah.

Speaker 1: How how quickly can it be adopted by because, you know, people I mean, Europe's a big place. Right? Yeah. Need do doctor network.

Speaker 2: Facilities building the machine that installs it. Like, there's a whole process here. Right?

Speaker 7: Yeah. Well, it's a simple one hour outpatient procedure. The machine is the surgeon. Don't need actually that many surgeons to reach these patients.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 7: So right. So the CE Mark is a marketing approval in about thirty year 30 countries that accept it. The next step is we need to register country by country. So we have registrations going in in Germany and Italy and The Netherlands and Spain and The UK, like, this week. That process takes about

Speaker 1: a month.

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 7: And then doctors can start scheduling patients. I mean, we sell implants to hospitals essentially, and then they sell them to patients. So it's the it's the hospitals, it's patients. But we have a registry. The hospitals have registries. The patient the doctors know who their patients are. With this demographic, actually, one of the things that happened is because there was really nothing available for them, ophthalmologists have been telling these patients, like, you know, you're 80 and have AMD, you don't need to be sitting in my waiting room anymore. Like, you know, you don't need to come here. Yeah. And so now they're starting to reach back out to some of those patients that they haven't said, we don't need to see you for the last few years.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 7: Say that there's something available. So the first patient is probably six weeks away or so. The next Why hell is

Speaker 2: so fast?

Speaker 7: Step is reimbursement. Yeah. And so, yeah.

Speaker 2: What does it look like in America? I mean, you're six weeks away in Europe. What's the FDA track like? I know that it's already FDA breakthrough device and humanitarian use device, but take us through what the commercialization plan looks like in The US.

Speaker 7: Yeah. So the other thing that we announced today is that we got two humanitarian use device designations from the FDA. Yeah. We actually got this back in March, but sat on them for a little bit. That unlocks an an expedited approval pathway called the humanitarian device exemption that we're submitting for imminently in the next week or so. That is a it it can be a seventy five day review. Yeah. And so it'll take a like, there's a couple loops of that, but we're hoping that early next year, it'll be available to to some some set of American patients, but that's up to the FDA review.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't wanna get you in trouble with the FDA. I know how high stakes it is, but it is just crazy that Europe's moving faster around regulation. Like this should be a signal to the FDA to say, hey, if Europe's approving it faster, we gotta we gotta step things up over here. I don't as an American, I just don't like falling behind. But I don't know.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Mean, I in this I mean, I would normally wanna agree with you. I think in this case, it's actually a little bit unfair to FDA because there's some there's some accidents of history that just led to this, like, happening first in in Europe.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 7: The FDA standards are not that much different.

Speaker 9: Okay.

Speaker 7: But, yeah, absolutely, we should hope to to have this here also. The FDA is they care about slightly different things. They're Sure. The filings are a little bit different. Yeah. But, hopefully, won't be that long, either.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Talk about next steps. I mean, you're you're properly commercializing right now. Does this mean new factory, new team members, new new just new muscle inside of the company?

Speaker 7: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we've built out a whole go to market team in Europe. So this is clinical education, like a bunch like, we need to go reach ophthalmologists where they are, tell them about the product, help them understand the results, answer their questions. Yeah. Rehab specialists. So there's this is a little bit different than than what you may have seen from the motor BCTIs where it works very quickly or with like, there's a little bit of rehab that the patients have to put in to really use it. So we have people on the ground there that will do that with them in the beginning. Over time, we want to have that be more and more kind of just in the wearable. They put on the glasses. The glasses talk to them. They talk to the glasses and walk them through the exercise. Yeah. But initially, that's a little bit higher, higher touch. And then also, there's a bunch of surgeon training. So we run wet labs for surgeons Yeah. Where they can come and and practice the procedure with us so that they've we know that they know how to do it before they're doing it with patients.

Speaker 2: Give me a sales and marketing one zero one for targeting ophthalmologists. Can you target them on Instagram reels? Do they listen to a specific podcast that you can sponsor? Are you at conferences? I know people give medical device companies give out lots of like pens and chairs, but I I think they're like there's like limits because you can't like bribe them, but you do want to give them merch. Like, what is the one zero one level of marketing to ophthalmologists?

Speaker 7: I mean, lot of it is conferences. Okay. So there's a handful of conferences that we go to and then getting not just having a booth there, but presenting scientific results. Typically, this isn't us, but it's our academic and Yeah. Scientific collaborators, maybe a surgeon at a hospital that did a study. They'll present their experience with it. There's also advocacy groups.

Speaker 6: Mhmm.

Speaker 7: So there's opportunities to sponsor, like webinars through these these networks. But it's a really small community. Think, like ophthalmology overall, and especially in these types of retinal diseases, it is very densely interconnected and they all talk. And so it's a matter of kind of there's a handful of advisory boards that we we have to go through. For example, our data safety monitoring board for the clinical trial. Yeah. These are often opportunities to have that community come and be familiar with our results and then Yeah. And then disseminate them.

Speaker 2: So it might be the end result might be a little bit more one to one because of how small the community is. You can actually reach them directly. What is

Speaker 7: Yeah. It's there's not like a huge insta spend on that.

Speaker 1: Not yet. What what is the shape what does the shape of Science Corp look like right now given that you have a product that's commercializing, but I imagine you're doing a bunch of r and d in the background for other opportunities and and use cases. But, you know, how are maybe you spending your time, and then what does the team's time look like?

Speaker 7: Yes. We definitely have a bunch of next generation projects in development, including the next generation of the PRIMA implant. We have new versions of that kind of in in preclinical studies now. Hope to get those into humans next year. It'll be it'll probably be a a three year minimum, possibly five year cycle between versions for a while, I think, because they need to do the intervening clinical trials. But PRIMA as it is now is a really great existence proof that we're on the right track. This is the first time that function that, like, really useful form vision, a thing that looks like an image, has been able to appear in the mind's eye of a blind patient. But it is not high resolution, full field color vision. It's like looking through a straw at the center of your vision where you've lost this high acuity, perception, and it's it's black and white, it's high contrast, but it's only a couple letters at a time or maybe a word at a time. And so we are still working to expand the field of view, make it so that you can potentially get colors. We think we know how to get to red and green. Blue is a little more difficult, and then get higher resolution, get towards native acuity. And so on each of these, have there's clear ways, places to go, but it's gonna be a long road to get that all the way to to all of these patients.

Speaker 1: Congratulations. We also

Speaker 7: have some really cool stuff coming on the the quarter on the brain computer interface side, on the vessel side, but that those will probably come out a little later in the fall.

Speaker 2: Can't wait to talk about it. I'm excited. Well, congratulations and thank you so much for taking the time to come

Speaker 1: to Yeah. Our Thank you so much for for coming on and

Speaker 3: And the work you're doing. Yeah.

Speaker 7: Just Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: You're you're doing you're doing the thing that you're doing you're doing something that could get humanity broadly back on the side of technology.

Speaker 2: That's a good point.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Because it's like one of those things like like it seems like so much of what the industry has been doing a lot, know, making making sand think is not quite enough for people. They're like, you know, what what have you really done for me lately?

Speaker 2: We literally had someone come on the phone and

Speaker 1: say, what have done But I feel like this is one of those things like, you know, curing blindness that over time will be sort of hopefully undeniable.

Speaker 7: Yeah. Well, I mean, this isn't about the money. I don't think it's about the money for a lot of this team. It's certainly not about money for the patients. I think like many things in tech, this is really about power. But if you wanna know, like, real power, like the power to heal the sick Mhmm. Unlike economic military power, that can be easily shared with others.

Speaker 2: Oh,

Speaker 7: interesting. And that is, I think, like, really what technology is about here. And we need to paint a picture of how this is being used in that way in a way that is really should disseminate broadly and, I think, just incredibly prosocial.

Speaker 1: I love it. Going back to I I I know we're almost out of time, but going back to like, what did what did you place the odds at doing this, accomplishing this moment when you started the company? It seems

Speaker 7: like I know. I've always had trouble thinking about these things. Like, I can't put a number on it. It's just you kind of keep going, and as long as success is in the past, like, set of possible outcomes, you're just constantly trying to minimize the odds that you don't get there. It is really hard to put a number on it. Definitely, it is cool to see it actually happen.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You're sort of nonchalant about it, but it is Uh-huh. Almost unbelievable and really really incredible. So Well. Well done. Well done. To the whole on the show. We'll talk to soon.

Speaker 4: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Yep. Cheers Max.

Speaker 2: Have a good rest of

Speaker 1: your day.

Speaker 2: Let me tell you about Figma. Agents meet the canvas. Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system context.

Speaker 1: Absolutely incredible stuff from Max Yeah. Science team.

Speaker 2: Very cool. I don't know. I think that you might be seeing like an Instagram rail being like, this eye implant that cured the blind used too much water and it's slop like it's not the same as just being blind. I don't know. Anything's possible. The pushback, there's always there's always a negativity bias. I think there will be pushback to even the medical cures.

Speaker 1: Giving sight to the blind.

Speaker 2: Yes. Get ready. There's gonna be somebody who finds, you know, something to complain about and goes viral and puts up big numbers talking trash. That's just the way our media ecosystem works. It's it's a it's a business, you know. If everyone's glazing something, somebody's gonna bring it down. That's just equilibrium. Equilibrium. Well, speaking of AI writing, Jeremy Gaffan had a post here. He said about AI writing. At the end of the day, it's not about whether the words are written by a human or an AI. It's about whether the output is useful, engaging and worth reading. The highest quality work will increasingly emerge from a tight human in the loop workflow. While some content will be generated end to end by AI, the fixation on authorial provenance is ultimately pearl clutching. Just kidding. That's the AI rendition of his actual post. He said it much more eloquently. But I tried to make it like more AI. I don't know. Anyway

Speaker 1: Mark Gurman says based on using the Z Fold eight wide, I'd reset my expectations of how the foldable iPhone is going to sell even at over 2,000. It's going to be a home run.

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Speaker 3: More room for reels. You can watch reels

Speaker 2: at once. But the reels are gonna be it's actually not that much more room for reels because you'll just have black bars on the side. Like if you watch Can you have two Reels side by side? Okay. Maybe. Yes. In two different apps, you could have YouTube Shorts here. If if they support split screen like on an iPad. But right now if you watch Reels on an iPad Mini, you're not actually getting that much more pixel space of Reels. You're just getting Reel here and then UI and Chrome here or whatever.

Speaker 1: Cooper says big tech just wants your eyesight restored so you can doomscroll There

Speaker 2: we go. Cooper named it. Yep. Yep. Oh, why they

Speaker 1: secretly trying to fix funding

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Speaker 1: been there. Scott? Yeah? It's pretty awesome.

Speaker 2: Think I saw Nolan film there in I think it was 70 millimeter IMAX back in the day. And then it didn't I think it didn't make it through COVID. But they're maybe bringing it back which is

Speaker 1: They have the giant sign outside that says the dome. Yeah. If they were going to stay out of business, should I remember yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember as a as a kid, I I thought that they would show the movie like projected on the dome, like on the whole ceiling and it was only for sort of like special, you know, like astronomy movies. But they will just show a normal movie and it's just you're just in a big dome. It's cool. Next studio if Sony doesn't buy it maybe. I don't know. Could happen.

Speaker 1: Can we get that unreleased track on again?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's play that as the outro.

Speaker 1: Yeah. One

Speaker 2: sec. Regulate Me. It's the new banger It's an anthem. Hit song of the summer. It's an anthem. It's near worm. You're gonna be listening to it. We'll share the link in the description of the YouTube video maybe.

Speaker 1: Let it Yeah. Gotta start doing it from karaoke.

Speaker 2: Because this song just speaks to me. It really captures the moment. You heard it from Travis. Every once in a while, you get into a pickle and you gotta get the government to come regulate you. It was a good time. Thank you for watching TBPN. Tune in tomorrow. We have a very special show for you. We're on the road Thursday, and then we're off on Friday back Monday. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tvpn.com. Let's throw a flash bang and let the audience listen to regulate me by Jordy Hayes and Suno. Goodbye. Flash bang out. Is multiplying.