Tavarish on Tesla Roadster vs. Porsche Mission S: the Roadster is a spectacle for clicks, the Mission S is a driver's car

Speaker 2: We run ran a little bit late, but here he is. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for holding on while we

Speaker 1: What's going on?

Speaker 2: Here. How are doing?

Speaker 4: How are you? You guys hear me okay?

Speaker 2: We can hear you great.

Speaker 1: Loud and clear.

Speaker 2: Loud and clear. I I mean, there's so much I wanna talk about but I wanna get your Tesla Roadster reaction first, then I want your Porsche Mission S reaction, and then I wanna hear about all the different projects you have going on. But let's start with the Roadster.

Speaker 4: Okay. So the Tesla Roadster, everybody's going crazy over it. I don't care, man. Like, I I I can't I can't tell you how much it doesn't, like, really move the needle for me because, like, honestly, it's it's a cool showcase of, like, stuff they can do. But the the the reality of putting one of these cars into production where it can do, like, a barrel roll or a kickflip over a truck, first of all, there's no practical use for it. And second of all, that's never gonna make it to production. So...

Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a it was a technology... It was like a very cool technology showcase that was attached to not even... Like, just sort of a teaser of a car that they're gonna start making in two years. And so I don't wanna I don't wanna... Could be another 20, who knows? Yeah. I don't wanna... It's hard to criticize because it's like, cool. They made a car with rockets on it. Yeah. It's like, it's amazing and it's and it's cool that that I'm glad that the human race can do this even if it doesn't have any obvious... Well, here's the reason why you should But John and I were both on the reservation list. We came in very late because we were like, you put five k down, you can always get out of it if you see the demo and you don't like it. But if the demo's insane, a bunch more people will come in. We kind of were expecting the car to be going into production like now. And... Mhmm. But seeing it, you're like, okay, here's a bunch of stuff that is not relevant to somebody who just wants to maybe buy the car outside of being able to produce a lot of downforce. But again, I can't even imagine going to the track with that car and one, if you're driving it at the limit, you're just gonna get banned from the track because people are gonna be like, hey, this person's like acting ridiculous. And then two, you're gonna be going through tires in like a single lap and like the novelty, the the sort of brief novelty before you realize like, okay, I'm driving a heavy car that can produce a lot of downforce but I destroy my tires and there's probably a thousand other cars that are much more enjoyable to drive on the same track. So

Speaker 4: so with with Tesla, it's a it's a weird like mixed bag because what ends up happening is you have this car that has some, like, legitimately really cool tech in it. Like, the Cybertruck has... You know, if you ever driven a Cybertruck or been, you know, driven around in a Cybertruck, if it's doing full self driving, there's a lot of interesting technology in it. 48 volt architecture, the drive... The the steer by wire. All that stuff is, like, super intuitive. And if you don't wanna drive it, it can, you know, have a mode where it drives itself. Now would I trust it? Not really. But I think...

Speaker 1: Well, here's the here's the thing... I was in a package. I would I would push back. I have... I I got a Cybertruck recently. It's amazing when it's driving itself. It's horrible to drive yourself. It's like the worst driving... It's the worst driving experience when a human is driving it. When the computer is driving it, it's like, great. This is like smooth. It feels like I'm in a fridge. It feels like I'm I'm in a dystopian fridge moving down the road. It's like Yeah. It's it's awesome. But I'm like, anytime I take over, like, John and I were driving in it last last week and the...

Speaker 2: Of self driving is perfect. He he takes over just to park it and I'm like, moving around.

Speaker 1: It's like, it takes like so much effort to make it like not feel like, you know, you're just like, it's so jerky. The yoke is, like, terrible. Like, it's it's really funny.

Speaker 2: It's one of the

Speaker 4: funniest things. When when you have, you know, a car like a Cybertruck

Speaker 1: Mhmm. And, you know,

Speaker 4: like, with with any new car, it's like, you have to adopt certain elements of, like, new technology, like getting a new phone. You have to get used to it. You know? Yeah. But with a Cybertruck, when you get in it and you try to drive it, like, stuff like steering. Steering is now, like, vastly different than what you remember, and it's not that way in any other Tesla or any other car in general. So you end up with this experience of, like, well, if you're a Cybertruck owner, then that is... You get used to that, and then every other car becomes weird. And, like, for for me, the first time I drove a Cybertruck, just getting out of the parking lot was... It was it was a time. You know? It was it was interesting because not only is it the size of a tank, but it also doesn't steer the way you think it should. Yeah. So you are essentially, you know, you're... The the car is determining how much, you know, input and output is happening, and you're just kind of along... They're along for the ride. Mhmm. Now when it drive... Drives itself like that, I do agree that that is, like, a better experience. But I I think that, you know, when you're in a Cybertruck, everybody knows that, you know, like, it is a it's a statement. Right? Yeah. So the same thing with this Tesla Roadster. It is it is definitely a statement. It is very like low res. It looks like a low res Lamborghini Murcielago from the Yeah. Front and then

Speaker 1: like a a new charger from the back.

Speaker 2: New charger from the back. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. No. It it... It's almost like they just made a render, and then they shipped the render. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And I think that Yeah. It might have been rendered recently.

Speaker 4: It was like it was actually a mid render. It didn't it didn't

Speaker 2: It didn't finish rendering and then they're like, oh whatever. It's good now. Ship it. Yeah. Mission S. Take us through your

Speaker 4: reaction Mission S.

Speaker 2: Compare it to nine eighteen. Tell us tell us about nine eighteen and then tell us about Mission S.

Speaker 4: So nine eighteen was a was a really, really cool car. I mean, just in general, it was the most weight of of the three. So, like, back in the day, they had the Holy Trinity Yep. Which was McLaren p one, the Porsche nine eighteen, and the Ferrari LaFerrari.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 4: These were the hybrid hypercars, and, you know, it was dubbed the holy trinity by Top Gear and Jeremy Clarkson. But the nine eighteen was was a weird one because they made the most of them, so it shouldn't be worth, you know, a lot of money. Then it was the the most weight, and then it was also the least powerful. However, it was, like, arguably the fastest car, the bet... The best built. And, you know, for... Just from my perspective, I haven't worked on a lot of Ferrari, but I can imagine what it's like. I've worked on a p one, and I've worked on nine eighteen. Nine eighteen is built so much better than a p one. And it is it is pretty crazy that, you know, they have... They had that technology back then. They did zero to 60 in two point two seconds. That was back in 2013.

Speaker 2: That's crazy.

Speaker 4: And then they did

Speaker 1: the... Right. The overall, it feels completely timeless. Like, they could have Mhmm. They could release that same car today it would just make sense. It it it it in many ways is like the to it to me it's my favorite modern

Speaker 2: So are you nine eighteen over a Carrera GT? And I wanna know if you're if you're nine eighteen over Carrera GT because Doug Jimuro and there's a lot of car guys that are like, oh, it's Carrera GT all the way. Don't want any hybrid stuff. But how do you both feel about it? Let's start with Tavarish.

Speaker 4: So they're just different cars for different purposes. I I think that, you know, if you want an analog car with, you know, roll your own gears and no driver aids and blah blah blah, and I'm sure Doug Demuro wants the values of his Carrera GT to go up Sure. Then you'd pick Carrera GT. It sounds great.

Speaker 2: You could put

Speaker 4: an exhaust on it and sounds like a... Like an an f one car.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: You can also do that with a nine eighteen. And a nine eighteen, you can legitimately just give to anybody and then they could drive it like a normal car. It is... Yeah. It's a It's just a normal car you can No.

Speaker 2: We don't make it.

Speaker 1: I mean, the the thing that was exciting to about the Mission S is like the nine eighteen and the GT have become so expensive

Speaker 2: Totally.

Speaker 1: That even though they made a lot of the nine eighteen, you can't... You just don't see them on the road. Yep. You... It's hard to imagine buying one and driving it Totally. For fun.

Speaker 2: Mhmm. Yep.

Speaker 1: And what I'm excited about the Mission S is like they're gonna make a ton of them.

Speaker 4: Love

Speaker 1: it. It's gonna give you that same kind of experience of like I'm driving a special Porsche but it's not special so you're gonna be able to drive it however you want. If you if you if you caravan...

Speaker 2: Thousand miles on it, it's like, okay.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you caravan these things, it's gonna get a ton of rock chips, but I think it... But I think it's fine.

Speaker 2: It's not the same as a 90

Speaker 1: And to me, like Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But this

Speaker 4: is Porsche. I mean, are they changing anything about about, you know, Porsche's sort of architecture as a company? Because, you know, if this is Porsche we're talking about, then the the MSRP isn't really MSRP. You're gonna have, you know, a 100, 200 over that just to get the first ones. Yeah. Then you have paint to sample, paint to sample plus. Yeah. Then you have the interior options and then, you know, it's just the the Corvette owner that that went to college. It's like mine was one of one because it was built on a Thursday with this paint car.

Speaker 2: No. No. No. No.

Speaker 1: I think it's gonna end up like, an $800,000 car regardless of where it starts. Yeah. But it's also not...

Speaker 2: You know, like like competing with Lamborghini s f 90 from Ferrari. Like, it it it's more in the unlimited production world, which is still really be as, yeah, like restricted as the nine eighteen and the curtain.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other the other thing is like seeing the two launches yesterday was like Yeah. One one is like, you know, I think we we all saw the Roadster launch in the same way, like cool, like carnival show, trick, you know. Yeah. Like very very cool technology demo. We'll see what the actual car is like. But then Porsche was like perfect stagnation. Right? It was like nothing has... Cars haven't gotten better. Right? If anything, this car was the first time a manufacturer like really really really listened to customers on a bunch of different elements. Right? It's like we want a key that you can put in the car and turn and we want that experience to be great. We want less screens. Right? We want... We don't want all these different things. But in many ways, there's zero innovation. It doesn't feel like... The only innovation is that we eliminated a lot of the innovations that we've had. And so I think it's great. I think like we have been talking on the show about, you know, the automotive world being in its courts crisis. And this was like the first response to like, we're in a crisis. We can no longer push. We're not pushing the frontier of technology in our That's gonna be done by the the Teslas Yep. And the and the Chinese manufacturers. But what we can do is make a driver's car Special.

Speaker 4: That

Speaker 1: is special and more desirable than in... Anything else in the market?

Speaker 4: So I I would push back a little bit on that because when they were developing the Porsche nine eighteen Mhmm. The technology that they had developed when you went from e mode or like the the region to the regular brakes, they had to calibrate that, and it took them a long time to get that right. So, you know, when you press the brake, it feels like it's a... You know, it... It's an actual brake pedal, but it's actually regen. But if you press the brake harder, then you get the brakes from the car. And to make that not jerky, like, they had to put in a lot of time. If you look at the early, you know, first drives of the 09/18, people would like Chris Harris, he would complain about, like, these brakes when they come on. It's like it's like you get you, like, hit a tree. You know?

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 4: But Porsche figured that out. And I think that is Porsche's real... That... That's their talent.

Speaker 1: Because they

Speaker 4: will do a lot of stuff behind the scenes to make this driving experience, like, seamless, and it's all... It's almost boring where the car does everything so well, and then that stuff, like, trickles down to their other cars. So, like, that nine eighteen, the the way that they made that nine eighteen, the the calibration for that specific system, that trickled down to their, their electric cars and then their hybrid cars. And, like, now that is an Audi's and and, like, all the the the kind of lesser known cars. So I I think whatever this is, whatever flagship Porsche has, it is gonna be something where they move the bar forward in terms of, like, driving dynamics, in terms of aerodynamics. I mean, if you look at it, it has, like, a big scoop on the in the front. It has like arrow lines that follow all the way to the back of the car. Doesn't seem like it has a bunch of like wings and, you know, active aero elements. It looks like it's just

Speaker 1: The the the back... The the wing is the wing is active.

Speaker 2: It's active, but it's active like the Carrera GT. Like, it just goes vertical.

Speaker 4: It's not it's not it's not like a a giant, you know, GT three.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's not like the the Mercedes AMG one that has, like, the little flaps everywhere with little motors on

Speaker 1: the Correct. Yeah. The the other thing that's worth noting is, like, this is not, from my understanding a nine eight... It shouldn't be viewed as a nine eighteen successor. This is just... Mhmm. This is the new step up from the nine eleven. And to me it's instantly the most desirable car, the most desirable new car in the call it 600 to a million dollar range. Mhmm. But then they're gonna come for the top end of the market too.

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Speaker 4: So, alright. If that's the case, then I guess it would go for the like that with s f 90 which is Yeah. Hypercar performance, not hypercar price, but then it can get to hypercar price. But hypercar price is now 2 to $3,000,000, where now a million dollars doesn't really get you a hypercar anymore. Yeah. So, like, it's still,

Speaker 2: you know, this is gonna do f 90 where the spider will be even more, and then they'll do a GT version of this, and then you'll get the GT three r s y stock package of the new Mission s. And that will be even more and more and more and I'm sure there'll be... Anti racing one Yeah.

Speaker 4: Then sample and... Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it it is just interesting that there will be some of these driving around with the poverty smackers on them, you know, and and people put miles on them hopefully, you know. Because there's so many of these cars where you hear about it and it's like, okay, they're making a 100 of them and they're just gonna stay in the plot.

Speaker 1: The poverty smack mission.

Speaker 2: The poverty smack mission as we go...

Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's really cool. Like, so I... Is it... I I don't know if the the pictures that I'm looking at are like actual, their renders or whatever. But like, this is... It's from Porsche.

Speaker 2: Yeah. If you're on the official Porsche, those are the real those are the real photos of the car that they debuted yesterday if you're on their account.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So There's a

Speaker 1: lot of

Speaker 2: hands stuff out there, but this

Speaker 5: is real.

Speaker 4: Is it a... Like, we don't know what the engine is. Right?

Speaker 2: No. They they... So they were teasing flat eight, but they were just asked yesterday by Forest Auto Reviews. Can you confirm that? And they said we're not ready to confirm that it's flat eight but it feels like it has to be something different than what's in the nine eleven to make it special. So that would be the logical So one.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So it could it could be flat eight. I was looking at the gauge cluster, I saw that, you know, the red line is somewhere around seventy seventy five hundred, or that's where the literal red line

Speaker 2: is.

Speaker 4: That says turbo?

Speaker 2: Is it... Does that imply turbo?

Speaker 4: Maybe. So what I was thinking was... I mean, it could be the Porsche nine six three engine, which is the 4.6 liter v eight from the nine eighteen plus twin turbos. Sure. But it it doesn't make a ton of... Like, it it doesn't rev as high, and it doesn't make it doesn't make a ton more power, but it is it is a pretty cool, you know, platform. And I know that they didn't make a lot of those those engines. And those engines, you know, from from my experience Yeah. Taking them apart, like, they're really good. Okay. They're really, really good. Yeah. So... But, like, a little rev limit on a Porsche just doesn't doesn't seem like right, you know?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe they're trying to sort that out right now, and and and that's why they don't wanna commit to anything. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. For sure. But I mean, if this was, oh, yeah. This is our GT three RS engine that revs to $9 plus, you know, we found another 40 horsepower lying on the on the floor. Sure. Here here you go. I do like the on your own. Is that is that a button on the on the wheel? So that disables on

Speaker 2: the driver's aids. So you can turn

Speaker 4: off Okay. Yeah. That... That's alright. That's alright, Phil. Yeah. Pretty cool. Like it probably did. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it's a it's a cool car. I don't know... Like, anytime Porsche releases MSRP numbers Yeah. It's always, like, okay. Like a GT three is a 160 k. Like, right. So Yeah. Has anybody paid that? Like, ever? No. Sure. They they are immediately double what they're what they're asking for because everybody needs the the shiniest thing. Yeah. If this is them trying what they did in the eighties with the 09/28, like, hey, this is like a step above the 09/11. Mhmm. You know, it's gonna be... It's it's gonna be interesting because nine eleven has a has a foothold in

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: In that market, and it will not let go.

Speaker 2: What's the opposite of a p one in terms of first car to start working on if you've never worked on a car before? What's the most accessible portal into that world?

Speaker 4: I would say anything nineties in Japanese, like maybe a Toyota. Okay. Because even if it is, like, ragged on, which a lot of Toyotas are, you can get it cheap and it's gonna be reliable. And if you can break things and it's not gonna break the bank, you know, you can get parts from Toyota that they still make because it's a giant company, and it is super cheap to to do that. So I would do, like, a Toyota, maybe a Nissan. Like, my first car was a Nissan Maxima. Yeah. And I'm a little biased, but, like, Nissan also, it's it's a little harder to get parts for some of those older cars.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Toyota has has a really good, parts program, and they're bringing back a lot of those, you know, iconic cars from the nineties. Sure. And and you're not gonna be dealing with, you know, issues, like, like, real big issues like rust like you get from a Mitsubishi or a Nissan. Like, they're they're pretty well made. So I I would say anything like Honda as well. Yeah. You know, Hondas, they are expensive if you wanna get, you know, a lot of power from that little engine. Yeah. But just to get a, you know, a car running and and driving, it's a really good platform to start

Speaker 1: on.

Speaker 2: And then in terms of how you select project cars, what sticks out to you? Is it all going back to, like, the posters that you had on your wall as a kid? Is it specific vehicles or just opportunistic? How do you think about when you wanna take on a new project?

Speaker 4: When I when I take on a new project, it's... It... There's not a lot of thought that goes into it. It's more like I Feeling. Don't know when I'm ever gonna have this opportunity again.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: So when I looked at something like the p one or nine eighteen Yep. I'm like, there's not gonna be another p one that comes up.

Speaker 2: There's not

Speaker 4: gonna be another nine eighteen that comes up.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 4: So I might as well get this and we're gonna see what... You know, if I can afford it, I'll get it. Yeah. And it's it's gonna be a project for me to figure out. And that... I I mean, I wish I would've planned things out better, you know, from the start, but this is also, like, the reality of making YouTube and reality of, like, project planning because, you know, you have scope creep, happened to to Of to me with the p one.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: You know, instead of rebuilding a p one, now we're doing... You know, I'm I'm building the fastest McLaren on Earth. We are taking out the hybrid system. Yeah. We're building this bespoke engine, and then we're doing a a bespoke body with the original designer, Frank Stephenson. And then this is now gonna be like this top speed car. And, you know, this is now leagues above in difficulty wise, leagues above a a stock p one build.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Dude, dude, how how much room is there in top speed competitions? I mean, it was interesting that the... At the Roadster reveal, they were, like, 230 miles an hour and then, like, live on stage, Elon sort of gets them to up that ante. And he's like, it'll go half the speed of sound. Right? And they're like, okay. Fine. We'll do that. But there are cars, like, I I I think Koenigsegg can do over 300. There's a few crazy numbers out there, but what what what is the state of the art, then how much more, like, speed on the floor is there?

Speaker 4: So the the legitimate issue that you come come up with when you go for top speed now is... I mean, it's been it's been the case for twenty years, but, like, where do you do it? Sure. Salt flats

Speaker 2: or something?

Speaker 4: Well, so so the problem with salt flats is that it's not... It's it's... They're... It's bumpy. Oh, get, like, the traction is a is a big concern. Got it. Those salt flat cars are made specifically for that environment.

Speaker 2: Interesting.

Speaker 4: And it's not really conducive to a street car. Like, street car, it'll get maybe 70% of its top speed, maybe. But even then, you're you're, like, just absolutely blasting the underside of your car. Yeah. It it is a really punishing environment. So what Bugatti does is they have a test track or I don't know if they still own it or they had a had a part of it. It's Ehrelessen in Germany. And Ehrelessen is, you know, it's this big test track with a banked curve that you can take... You can do, like, a 120 miles an hour. You can, like, saunter up to a 120, and they have a six mile straight.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: And then that's where they do all their their top speed. So right now, the fastest car that I know of that is a production car, it's sorta kinda, is the Bugatti Chiron SS. Mhmm. And that's... It's a Bugatti Chiron SS 300 plus. And because that did 304 miles an hour Uh-huh. And that did it there. But in order to get the official record, you have to do it there and, like, reverse, like, Right. There and Yeah. Yeah. But because they didn't do it backwards, because of the Oh. The the way that the asphalt was, they only did it once, and then they were like, you know, who cares? We we don't, you know, we don't care if we have the official record or not. Like, then, you know, that that stood. But I think the fastest now is the SSC Tuatara, which did it here in Florida, Cape Canaveral, and then they did something like 280 something miles an hour, you know, average between the between the two runs. So the the the issue... Like, right now, the the big thing is, like, 300 miles an hour. 300 miles an hour is incredibly fast. Yeah. But the issue becomes braking zone. You have to find a place to do it. You know, you could do like Koenigsegg did and rent out a... Or or, like, just close-up, I think, Highway 50 or or wherever it was. Sure. And it's just an arrow straight thing, but then it's like a public road. Yeah. So you you have to, like... An animal could could come at any point. It could be... Like, there's there could be some some gravel on the road. Like, there's a lot of things that could happen, and it just becomes diminishing returns when you're when you're looking for top speed. But I I still look at it, like, as as a kid because like as a kid, you're like, well, this number's bigger, so this car is better.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And I think we I think we've sort of lost our way. It's all it's all like nerve racking lap times and blah blah blah and you know, that that sort of thing. Just a quick quick thing before I finish my Ted talk. I... Like, every car that says, oh, yeah. The top speed is 230 miles an hour or blah blah blah. And, like, obviously, they... The Roadster... They haven't tested top speed. They they they have not because the Roadster is not a production car. But the reason why a lot of these cars are, like, topped out around two thirty, like, 20 to two thirty Mhmm. Is because the the CFD, the computational fluid dynamics testing Mhmm. That OEMs, like the other car manufacturers have, they stop becoming reliable after 230 miles an hour because the air around the car becomes significantly compressed, like more than 5%. So you get, like, a ram air effect like you would get on a plane Woah. After 230. That's also why a lot of, like, race cars, Indy cars, that that sort of thing, they go up there because they're aero testing only... Like, you can only get to that point. Now there are cars that go, you know, faster than that, Leman cars, but, like, those are very much... We're gonna see where this goes. It might do a backflip. Who knows? And some

Speaker 2: of them have.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So if you ever wonder how that how that happens, like, oh, aren't these tested? Like, it's it's almost impossible to test that unless you go out and then you figure, you know, you you actually do some real world testing and see, oh, yeah. The the bumper hasn't fallen off yet and the car hasn't done a backflip, so we're

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Do you think in the Roadster launch, they tease some like CODA lap times like something around a 01:30? Do you think that's just like totally fake news or do you think they actually somehow got out there and didn't get any didn't get... Any spy shots? Any spy shots.

Speaker 4: Well, it doesn't matter because it's not a production car. So, like, whether they put a, you know, some body on a frame and then went around with a a test mule, okay. Like Yeah.

Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4: That's cool. Like... So lap times to me don't don't really matter. Like, I I don't care if if a car... Because, like, lap times, they they say a lot about a car, but they also say a lot about the driver. And I don't consider myself like a race car driver, and I don't really feel like I want to be, you know. I feel like, yeah, I'll I'll push a car on a on a nice, you know, windy road or like a straight road or something, and that that feels good. But I'm not a race car driver, and I don't care if my car gets, you know, point three seconds faster on the Nurburgring with these, like, little aero flicks. Like, it doesn't really matter to me. So I don't know if it's conjecture. Knowing Elon Musk and Tesla probably is, but he knows that the thing that he showed was not for car people. It was Yeah. It was just for... It was just to get clicks. It was just to to generate buzz, and it absolutely did that. If you want spectacle, you go to one of those launches. But, like, no... Like, nobody looked at the the substance of what was said. Like, everything that was shared was the car doing a barrel roll, the car, you know, flying, the car going upside down. That's the only thing

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 4: That was shared because everything else is is sort of clunky Yeah. And not very well, you know, orchestrated or put together, but they did have this this spectacle that they knew people were gonna just eat up.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They had the moment.

Speaker 1: It worked.

Speaker 2: It's kinda underrated. Almost everyone.

Speaker 1: Except except car people that had a reservation in and then immediately saw it and I was like, that's cool and then canceled.

Speaker 2: It's... Yeah. It's kinda it's kinda underrated that Tesla, you can drive these like by wire. Like they're very clearly entirely remote. Like there were no people in them at any time. So when you think about high speed trials, it's like, yeah, just send just like send the command to drive straight remotely and just drive it and if it flips and crashes, no big deal. It's it's maybe you can push the car further in testing if they do go down that road. But I don't even think car buyers care past 200 miles an hour. It's so rare that you ever would get the opportunity to push a car like that. Yeah.

Speaker 4: The amount of people that have gone 200 miles an hour is incredibly small. Yeah. And like if you actually go 200 miles an hour, you realize how fast that is. Yeah. Now in cars now, like if you get in a Koenigsegg and you realize that this thing has 1,500 horsepower, it gets to those speeds so quickly. Like like, I remember, you know, back in the day, Bugatti Veyron was the fastest car in the world, 253 miles an hour. We're we're never gonna have another car that's a thousand horsepower and blah blah blah, and it and it does this incredible top speed. And now, like, a Chiron, like, its its successor has 500 more horsepower, and it didn't need those crazy tires that the Bayron had, mainly because it gets to those speeds so much faster that the, the tires don't actually heat soak. They they don't heat soak as much as the Bayrons did. So the Bayron needs those tires because it's less powerful. Oh, amazing. So if it had 500 more horsepower, can actually just get tires from tire rack, which is interesting. Wow. But like, but people don't understand how how fast these cars are. And if you go, like, you know, 200 miles an hour to two fifty, that's that's that's crazy. But then, like, two fifty to, like, 300? 300 is so... Like, anything going 300 miles an hour is probably in the air. Like, that... That's that's just... You know, like, planes take off at way under that speed. So you have to you have to do a lot of homework, and 300 miles an hour is nothing to to talk at.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, even the even the high speed stuff is getting democratized. You look at the z r one, and you're looking at Bugatti numbers on pretty much almost everything. I think it goes maybe two twenty, two thirty in some configurations. Like, this stuff is getting to be... And I don't know what the depreciation will be like on that car, but you could imagine, I mean, even a model plaids, you know, 60 k for zero to 60 in two seconds. We certainly democratized it, but, hopefully, people keep it on the road. Yeah.

Speaker 4: It's it's it's incredible. Like, I I drove today, you know, one of my daily drivers is a a Charger Hellcat Redeye. Nice. It is a essentially a rental car that you can you can get that has 800 horsepower. Will just, like, you can go to the dealership. Well, not now anymore, but, like, you could have gone to the dealership and just bought it with money.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And that that seems kind of crazy Yeah. Because 800 horsepower was more than, like, if you look back, you know, ten, fifteen years ago, what had 800 horsepower? Literally nothing.

Speaker 2: Nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So... Greg in the X Chat says, ran into James May today in an airport lounge. He looked grumpy when I asked him about the Roadster. Cars should drive, not fly. He said. To Tavarish's point not for trad car guys.

Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah. What does excite you? What what is on your

Speaker 4: dream and what

Speaker 1: is my takeaway from the whole event was like I'm very excited. Tesla slash SpaceX are obviously gonna be the company that popularizes flying cars. Yeah. It might take twenty years but they are gonna be the ones that do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not gonna look like the Roadster because Roadster has two seconds of range.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's a rocket. What is on your dream list? If you were dropped in as the CEO of Tesla or Porsche or any company and you want to build your ideal car, how manual is it? People want to go back to the old ways. I was joking about putting the crank in the front of the car. You know, what Mhmm. What do you want? What's on your dream list?

Speaker 4: It's it's tough because I am not a person that would like put together all the elements of my my favorite cars and then be like, alright, it's perfect for me. Think every car has an element of, you know, like if it's a truly good car Mhmm. It is, for better or worse, somebody's vision. Like, somebody's vision from start to finish. And you can see... You see that from the engineering side, from the, from the design side. And those cars are... Like, the McLaren f one, for example. It was like Gordon Murray's baby. Yeah. You know, it's designed by Peter Stevens, but, like, Gordon Murray had a finger in every single thing, every project on that car. And it's still revered as one of the best cars ever made. And it's, you know, obviously not without its faults, but it is of an era, and it is... It's... There's nostalgia involved. I I don't know if there's, like, a perfect car for me. There are some, you know, very exciting cars. For me, the the Aston Martin... What is it? The Valhalla? The one that that just came out. I really like that car. That car reminds me of the... When the p one originally came out. It's a very similar kind of drivetrain. It's also British. It's a it's a very, very beautiful car.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And I think it is, like, one of these things that... Since it's it's an Aston Martin, it's gonna it's gonna depreciate. But it's also a car that we might not appreciate as much now. Mhmm. But later on, people are gonna look back and say, oh, wow. That was a... That was that's quite a thing. But, like, I I think with anything, there's a lot of there's there's too many rich people out there, and then there's too many companies that are willing to give them, you know, whatever they want. So, like, Ferrari making the... These... The digital chill injury manuals.

Speaker 2: Manuale. Yeah. So, like,

Speaker 4: things are kind of... They're they're kinda cool. I'm not I'm not on the, you know, hate bandwagon there. I think that that's, you know, it's interesting technology. Yeah. But like, I think any car that is... That gives an interesting experience, a unique experience that other cars can't give you Mhmm. I I think that is worth pursuing. I I like the the Mission s. The Mission s looks looks interesting. I don't know how different it is gonna be from, like, a GT three or, a turbo s.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: Who knows? But what I what I think is is interesting moving forward is, like, where the the the the battle between EV and and combustion engines, and then, like, where hybrids fit into that and then how performance fits into that. But, you know, I think car enthusiasm in general has gone up in the past, like, let's say, three years because, you know, for a while, we were worried about car enthusiasm just leaving. You know, like, we're never gonna have v twelve's again or like blah blah blah. Well, so... I think that... Yeah.

Speaker 1: My... I've had a working theory for a while that you're gonna see even more of a resurgence in activity at various tracks around the country Mhmm. As it becomes more common to just never drive yourself on the road anywhere. Like, I'm already getting to the point where like, I never wanna commute. I never wanna self drive Well when I'm commuting. Yeah. Want...

Speaker 2: There's so much more potholes like... They're... In the sixties, you could get a sports car and actually like ring it out just on like the normal streets or like the back Mhmm. Roads. Like now...

Speaker 1: So I think Tesla making a car that ultimately is just a track toy Yeah. Actually is kind of going in the right direction in some ways because I think that a lot of people are gonna be like, when I'm on the road, my car drives me. When I'm on the track That's car. I drive myself. Yeah. And and I think that that's like the line that's like really interesting. Yeah. The Mission S is the first car that's like a production road, you know Yeah. Road legal car that I'm like, this is this is a car that I want in a while.

Speaker 2: I I was hoping we were gonna get a tour of something.

Speaker 4: Sorry. Sorry. My my guys are like watching a car, and it's it's like super loud. The the No. You're all good. The pressure watcher. So... Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: But... Yeah. I mean, thanks so much for coming on the show. We'll let you get back to your day. We'd love to do...

Speaker 1: No. No. You're you're good. No. I...

Speaker 4: But I completely I completely agree. I think, you know, the the car enthusiast was never... You know, like, with these new cars, people don't think about car car enthusiasts because Mhmm. Number one, car enthusiasts don't really buy new cars. Mhmm. They're they're thinking about the the collector. They're thinking about the person that is doing it as a status symbol. And then maybe down the line, that's when they get, like, the real enthusiast. And then you you can have, like, the enthusiast, version. You can have the g t three, g t three r s. You can have the the the manual and whatever for those people that both have money and and want that that experience. But for, like, the base experience of any car now, it's really good. Like, it's really good. If you'd... If you get any, like, base model car, it's still... It's gonna have more power, gonna have more options, more luxuries than any car back, like, ten, fifteen years ago. Mhmm. It's also gonna be pretty reliable, like, for the most part. So I think, you know, it is... I I like where things are headed. I don't... You know, like, the the design of cars now is, like, kind of humdrum to me. Yeah. I like that, you know, Porsche is still making pretty cars. Some some Italian manufacturers are making pretty cars as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: But everything now is just becoming, like, very... I don't know if it's they're they're they're getting that the the Chinese influence where like

Speaker 2: every car just... I'm saying.... Car looks the same. I agree with you except with two exceptions other than the Cybertruck, Nuvolari and Jaguar Type o one. It's a very specific aesthetic but it feels like it does not look like a, you know, like like a BMW. It doesn't look like an Audi that's like where everything's kind of like coalesced around one design language. Question. But but I wanna know

Speaker 4: what you think. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I... Go for it.

Speaker 4: The the new Velary stuff is like... The people that didn't like the Jaguar

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And then they they started saying how good the new Velary looks. I'm like, what is Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2: What is

Speaker 4: your day with Boeing?

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's I don't

Speaker 4: I don't I don't get that at all. Like I I think it's... They're just kind of low res cars. Yeah. Same, you know, Cybertruck and Roadster and and they all kind of fall into that that one thing. Just becomes... You buy it for the meme and I I don't I don't think there's gonna be a

Speaker 1: John literally John literally has been thinking like do I do the three car garage, Cybertruck, new Villarreal, type one.

Speaker 2: Type o one. Just the low res garage. Very funny. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I have a I have a question for you. Do you think... So the Mission S feels very competitive with all the sort of desirable Ferrari cars, whatever it ends up being actually called. Like it just feels like suddenly people are gonna be like, I have $750,000 to spend on a car that I'm gonna drive a few times a month, maybe a couple times a month, whatever, a weekender. That is like very competitive. I... My expectation is that Ferrari is gonna fire back by going after the the three r s category and making this two nine six challenge, the street legal version of it, like much more widely available. Because it seems like they're gonna remove the hybrid and if suddenly they have a car that's in that 400 to $500,000 range MSRP and it has a massive wing on it and it is, you know, again... Crazy Nurburgring... But again a car for the street. I I expect they're basically gonna like flip flop. Interesting. Where like suddenly Ferrari will have a car in the 500 and below range. It's like pretty pretty compelling.

Speaker 2: We can go to the

Speaker 1: three RS buyers like, well, I want something aggressive, looks track focused. But... And and so so anyways, that's kind of like how I'm What

Speaker 2: do you think?

Speaker 4: Yeah. I I can I can probably agree with that, but I I don't know what Ferrari's trajectory is? I I think Ferrari is just hell bent on trying to make as many cars as they can and then pretending like they're like like, they're all rare. Like, every single one is rare, and, you need, like, special permission to to buy, you know, whatever their base model car is.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: I I think there's, Porsche have a history of making a certain type of car. Ferrari is not... Like, no matter what they do, Ferrari is not gonna be Porsche. It doesn't drive like a Porsche. They all drive, like, differently. Mhmm. A a Porsche experience is very sanitized. Even a a GT three, which which I have, I have a manual nine nine two GT three, and I love it. I think it's the best manual car I've ever driven. And I also have a, like, a 04/30 Scuderia that we converted to manual. And it's, you know, on paper, it's around the same horsepower. It's, 500 horsepower, around the same weight, that that sort of thing. The Ferrari is, a bit more old school, but it's still aluminum chassis, that that sort of thing. But it feels completely different. It is a is a different sort of school of thought, and the Ferrari feels like it was made a 100 years before the Porsche. So I I think no matter what, even newer Ferraris, they they have this, like, manufactured sort of Italian passion where things don't line up as well as you'd want them to. Like a like a Ferrari, like a Pista doesn't drive as well as, like, a McLaren because be... Because of that. Because they they wanna, like, manufacture this this sort of, like, imperfection. But then, sometimes, like, I don't see them competing with Porsche in the same way. It's not it's not gonna be that sanitized experience no matter what you can do.

Speaker 2: Yeah. No. That that... That'll be really interesting. It does feel like they will go to head to head, but there will be, yeah, a really wide really wide gap between the two brands. So...

Speaker 1: And I think that's great.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they wanna make the same car at the same price. More so that, like, I think it would be an interesting new product for them to offer that would be an ode to, like, hey, we haven't forgot why we got into this in the first place, which was, like, selling emotion, selling this rawness, selling this...

Speaker 2: Would that be the XX? Is XX street legal race car? Is that the thesis there? No. That

Speaker 4: is that is not like now, but yeah, the FF 90 XX. And the XX program used to be a literal, like, race car with race team, and you didn't even own the... You didn't you didn't have Okay. The car like, to to do anything with. You you you, like, just told Ferrari, meet me at this track with the team, and then we'll... I'll drive the car. But that f f 90 x x was the only car that had that badge but didn't come with all those perks.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 4: But then you can just drive the car.

Speaker 2: You can take it off.

Speaker 4: So... But but but it was... They

Speaker 2: take the road car, and then they make it a track car, and they a road car, and then make it track car, and then they car again. They go back and forth. It's the best.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's like Street Fighter, the movie, the game

Speaker 2: Yep. The movie. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The book based on the movie that's based on the book. Yes. It's the best. But always always another way to, you know, stand out in the crowded market, I suppose. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker 1: Super fun.

Speaker 2: This is great. Let's do it again soon.

Speaker 4: No worries, man. Thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks for Have

Speaker 2: a good one. Cheers. Bye.

Speaker 1: Car day. Wanted to distract you from the absolute disaster that we've had today in the markets.

Speaker 2: Oh, it's rough. What's going on?

Speaker 1: Jim Kramer says maybe we clean out this blown up hedge fund and start fresh on Monday.

Speaker 2: Okay. So Nasdaq is down 2.14%. S and P five hundred is down one point o 9% and the Dow Jones is down just one just point 34%. But lots of Kramer called it

Speaker 1: call it of the worst days of the year.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Nasdaq nears biggest weekly loss in more than a year. Tech stocks are falling sharply Friday. Remember, you got this alpha from us yesterday because if you paid attention to the stream, the stream title was sell everything including your dollars. It's over over. And it looks like it is in fact over over. But maybe we'll clear out this hedge fund, and we'll be back on Monday. We'll see. AI related shares came under new pressure pushing the Nasdaq down 2.4%, which leaves the benchmark down 4.7% for the week. If the tech heavy benchmark finishes down more than 4.68%, it will be the worst week since the tariff meltdown. I like that in this Wall Street Journal report, they were hammering this out so fast. They capitalized the t h e all caps for some reason. I think it's just a typo but it lets you know that a human was hammering this out and saying I'm I'm mad. I'm angry. This is crazy news. Anyway, there's a bunch more stories but we'll get to them on Monday. You.

Speaker 1: Two point six says wait before you guys go is Tyler still an intern? News flash, Tyler has never actually been an intern. He's always paid. Paid. And he dropped out of college like how long ago? A year ago?

Speaker 2: I think I think his original deal, he had to go to school for a decade. So, he that down came here.

Speaker 1: Came

Speaker 2: back. But, yeah. I don't I don't actually know your official title. Co host. Oh, mean, in the Wall Street Journal, just host. They didn't even hit you with the co. Tyler Cosgrove was featured in the Wall Street Journal. One of us. One of us. Trissy. He made it into the journal. Very very... It's a big moment. The first time you get in the print edition... Did you actually get the copy of the print edition? Did you see if

Speaker 3: we We didn't get it delivered that day, so I don't know.

Speaker 4: Somebody stole it.

Speaker 3: But I don't think it was in the print edition.

Speaker 2: Okay. Well, should figure that out. But Tyler is in The Wall Street Journal. You can go to wsj.com. Sign up. You can search his name and he was he was in the article about Cheeky Pint and how the tech elite are drinking beers and Tyler broke it down. Do you have anything else? They they they sort of sort of mod you a little bit, didn't they? Okay. But the

Speaker 4: writer said, you're gonna watch the full episode because there's a lot. But it's probably positive. TBPN, here's the punk dancer.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. The Wall Street Journal said, they... The journalist said, I didn't watch Jinky Punch because I have a life. But this guy over at TBPN, this host, Tyler Cosgrove did. And so he hit you with the host, hit you with full name, spelled it correctly, got the name of the show slightly wrong but it's okay. We'll hit them with the correction for that. But we love the Wall Street Journal and we love you all for tuning in. We forgot to tell you the most important data point that we that we cover more reliably than the markets. How many days until Christmas? Happy Christmas. Sixty nine days until Christmas. Let's go.

Speaker 1: There you go. Thank you so much. Outside the movie theater yesterday, they were setting up Christmas decorations.

Speaker 2: Rick Cruz is one of us. Let's go.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 2: So good. So good. Yeah. It's getting it's getting it's getting Christmasy in here. Let's check-in on the Christmas weather report in Los Angeles. It's 94 degrees. Not exactly the Christmas spirit. Malibu is burning. There's a heat advisor. There's evacuation warnings because it's too hot. But Christmas is always hottest before it gets cold. Dark... It's always darkest before dawn.

Speaker 1: It's always hottest before the snow

Speaker 2: falls. Always hottest before the snow falls. Yeah. There's no... You have control over... We have invented air conditioning. Don't live in France. We live in America. You have air conditioning.

Speaker 1: We love you guys.

Speaker 2: You wanna get Christmas Have a great weekend. Just turn on the air conditioning. Good night.