Jay Leno on cars, comedy, AI, and why he'll never retire

Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Yes. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming on. Hi. We appreciate you coming on. We're shooting porn. Why? Why is that? Because... Just the studio. Just the studio's a little a little DIY

Speaker 5: for you? Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. What what what does it take to make a great studio? I'm I'm not really sure, but Okay. But this is this is certainly qualified. Yeah. My GPS, I said, Coahuenga. For some reason, read Cochrane. I'm going Okay. Why am I downtown? Oh, okay. I'm sorry. No. No. Fine. We're happy to have you. We're hanging out. Let's talk. What did you drive here? I drove a 2012 McLaren. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. One of the first ones. I I've been involved with the company since the beginning, so

Speaker 1: yeah, really good. I I enjoy them. Terrific cars. Terrific cars. Terrific cars. What do you like about them most? What what do you think of the criticism? It's the rich guy, go fast car.

Speaker 5: Well, I'm a rich guy and I go fast. Oh, yeah. Said, I'm guilty. Guilty. Well, you know why I like it? I like it because I was in on the Ground Floor, I find customer service has been great. You know, when I bought the car, I'm spec'ing it out, and I said, Let me make carbon fiber. He goes, Do you track the car? I go, No, this is gonna be a shaker. He said, You don't need a carbon fiber brake, you can save $20. Oh, okay. Yeah, instead of trying to upsell you. I did that. Had the car six months. They called them and said, oh, there's an upgrade from whatever it was to 617 horsepower. You want that? I said, much is said, oh, it's free. Oh. Okay. Okay. And, you know, I I bought an... I I bought the p one. I bought the the new the new w one from... The w one. Track only w one? No. Not so. No street street. You know, I'm a see, I don't wanna be that guy, the fat guy in the leather racing suit that doesn't quite fit. If I'm gonna race, I'm gonna race Miatas, I you I don't wanna... Because, you know, I did the Yeah. I did a celebrity I was once with with Dan Gurney. Right? So I'm right right behind Dan. One of the things about it, he gave everybody a Toyota Celica. Know? Right behind Dan Gurney. Okay. I'll do... Brake lights. Brake lights. Turn. Turn. Okay. Good. And then he's a little bit ahead of me. Okay. Now he's in my rearview mirror. I go, how did that happen? And then he passes me. He lapped me, I have no idea how he did. I go, okay, that's not it. I'm not a race car driver. I enjoy automobiles, I enjoy working on them, but I am not a race car. You know, driving is like sex, all men think they're good at it. They're not.

Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's the most hum... It's the most, like, actually driving on a track is the most humbling thing ever. Plus, you know what? Because something about cars, it's like, the reason that f one is still, I would say, almost challenged as a sport is that in almost every other sport, can tell what the athlete is going through and you can tell how intense it is. You can see the sweat. You know that they're running back and forth, all these different things. In a race car, can't, one, you can't tell that it's physical unless you've been

Speaker 5: in a race car. And two, they make it look so easy that it almost... Right. Right. And it's just like, oh, they're just going around in circles.: Well, that's what... We live an hour now where everybody thinks everybody else's job is easy.: Yeah.: No matter what you do, like, oh, it's night show, so you come in at like three and then you have jokes to read, then you leave at like 05:30.: Yeah.: No, no, I get there at seven in the morning, I leave at midnight, you know? Why? I gotta see the movie, I gotta read the book, I gotta pre interview, know, I mean, yeah, but that's kind of... See, I'm a huge believer in low self esteem. Sure. You know, it's the key to success. If you don't think you're the smartest person in the room, you just shut up and you pay attention. And that's what I did when I got to the Tonight Show. Give me the best lighting guy, give me the best director, give me... And please tell me when I suck. Just tell me when this show sucks. Sure. The show sucked. Okay, like what do got to do to make it better? But you know, I have friends of mine in the business, and, you know, nobody lies. Nobody tells them the truth. They go, no. You're good. You're really good. No. You weren't. Yeah. Okay. Whatever you're doing, change it because it's not working. So that's what's working. Did you have any rules for The Tonight Show? I was listening to a interviewer. He said he has one rule, which is that

Speaker 1: the the current guest cannot trash talk the previous guest. He didn't want his show to be in place. This is a random podcaster,

Speaker 5: Joshua Citarella, but he was saying that he didn't want each interviewer to be... Each guest to be a referendum on the previous one trying to score points on the last interviewer that he talked about. That was never a problem. Okay. But did you have any, like, rules that you felt Well, the rule I had was anybody can pull a cord and stop the train. Okay. You know, we had interns. You guys are in your twenties. Okay? I'm old. Tell me if a joke sounds corny or if it's if it's dated, or just let me know if I sound like an old I'll tell you if it's cooked. Yeah, yeah, and they'll go, you know, that's kind of an old reference. I remember one day, I'm watching TV, and the stones are on, and they're endless comeback tours, you know. And I said, my god, they look pretty good, you know. And I look over and the interns are, they're all laughing. They go, mister Leno, they're really awkward. Okay. Well, like, yeah. But they... I'm telling them, no. They don't look... It just it just made me laugh. Yeah. Yeah. Just made me laugh. I'm like, oh, you know, you're right. You're right. Guys, they look like old guys playing guitar. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Back on cars. The z r one axe.

Speaker 5: Fabulous. Fabulous. You know something? That is the greatest performance bargain in the history. Yeah. For less than the sales tax on a Ferrari, you get a car that's faster. Yeah. Okay. Not quite as sophisticated and all the things that go with it, but you know, it's very, very good. Yeah. And the nice thing about American supercars is you get in with your phone or your devices, and everything syncs up right away. You get in, even McLaren or Koenigsegg, Bugatti, hang on, oh, my phone... I forgot about that. It doesn't quite work, you And plus, know, a lot of them don't meet emissions or don't crash standard, do the phony Montana plate thing. Okay, now you're in jail. Know, that's the great thing about it. It's... And it's extremely well met. You know, the greatest thing that happened to Detroit was going bankrupt. Yeah. Because they fired all the marketing guys, the guy from Whirlpool, and you know, I'm with Maytag, but I And can sell it's all engineers now. And even Mark Royce, the president of Jim, he's at Nuremberg Ring like once a month. Yeah. He went two thirty three the other day in the new Corvette around Nurburgring.

Speaker 1: What CEO? What company would allow the CEO to run two thirty three miles So... An and it makes for a better car, a better vehicle. Is that worth chasing? Because the ZR1X has, you know, track car performance from just a few years ago, and now it's a road car. Is that worth the automobile

Speaker 5: chasing? I don't think you've ever seen an ad for the z r one. No. Because they're all sold out. Yeah. GTD Mustang sets the record at Le Mans. Yeah. I've never seen an ad, the new Mustang with a guy, know, with two days stubble and the girl, oh, looking over a toy. Know, none of the... If a product's any good, it sells itself. And, you know, early in days of automobiles, it was race on Sunday, sell on Monday. And that kind of fell into... It just didn't work anymore. They just stopped. GM had a ban on racing and, you know, all that. But once they got back into racing, once you could see American stuff as competitive, people like to root for the home team. I I mean, I do. I mean, I love my McLarens and everything, but I love to see Ford and and Chevy be... Cadillac's doing f one now. I know. How hilarious is that? I mean, you know, the last or the last... You go to the race on Sunday, you buy an Escalade on Monday. That's right. Or, well, or, you know, the great one is the is the Blackwing. That's what I got outside. Isn't that a great car? It's fantastic. You know, it's fantastic. The last stick shift Cadillac was 1948. Been a long time. And then you go up to... And, you and the fact that whoever thought that Cadillac would have a stick, but Ferrari, BMW, Lamborghini, no. Well, they're bringing them back. What do you think of the e manuals, the Manuale, the manual by wire? Well, same thing I think of a blow up doll. If you can't get a real girl, I guess it's it's okay. You know, I mean, it's kind of embarrassing and I hope nobody sees you, but, you know, I...

Speaker 1: No. You know... It seems like the young people might still... It might be good enough. I don't know.

Speaker 5: Well, they wanna know the difference. Yeah, maybe. Well, the young people... You know, when I was a kid, every guy pretended to be in certain cars because they got you girls. So even if they knew nothing, hey, what's the mill? You know, it's kinda stupid.

Speaker 1: Now, when I meet car guys, boy, they're committed. Men and women.: because there's lot of YouTube videos, all the data and Way more information.:

Speaker 5: They can learn all Like Sidney Sweeney, you know her, the actress?: Yeah.: She is a welder, a fabricator.: That's right. I mean, she really knows her style. It just makes me laugh now, she's like, oh, the sexy girl. Oh, she's always attractive. Yeah, yeah. But she used to, well, she worked for Rod Emory. Yeah. I worked with him, I guess. Yeah. You know, But she apprenticed in his shop and he taught her a lot. It just makes me laugh. So the young people I meet, men and women, are really into cars. Yeah. And unfortunately, fortunately, manual sells. I mean, it gets them in the showroom. Mhmm. You know? And then then the wife goes, I'm not driving this. Alright, honey. My wife doesn't like the the stick. What

Speaker 1: do you think of the idea that the car industry is currently going through their equivalent of the quartz crisis where auto... Customers will either be buying an appliance, which will be a self driving Tesla probably, or something that's completely manual, completely,

Speaker 5: you know, real engine, just a motion, and they'll have... Well, Yeah. I I think what you have now, electric cars are the quartz Yeah. Vehicles Yeah. And mechanical cars. I mean, I think supercars will be like snowmobiles or any other recreational vehicle. Take it out on weekends. Yeah. And people will continue to buy the one with the most valves, the most cams. Yep. I mean, this watch, Alon Ganzong. I mean, it's the most complicated way to tell time. Yeah. A Timex or Citizen for $50 is even more accurate because it's electronic. But there's a certain I enjoy winding it, it has a certain feel to it. I like it. And I think people will seek out the car. You know, I've got the Dodge the Demon, and I've got the Challenger. And the Challenger is a six speed manual. And then, obviously, the 10 speed is quicker with the automatic, but I I like driving the stick better. Yeah. Do you like... Do you think that...... Watches? Go for it. Do you like driver's watches? Oh, I've got a... I've got in that. 1921. Yeah. We have the Jay Leno watch we actually put out. It sold out three times. We're on our third or fourth. Amazing. Do

Speaker 2: you think going to the track, participating in motorsports will become more popular as more of the cars on the road are self driving?

Speaker 5: I don't know. I think so. You know, we have a situation now where unfortunately, whole company, there's no middle anymore. You have poor people or you have rich people that can afford. You know, I'm like with the Mission S, the new Porsche. I see Porsche moving upscale, and I want it to be like Ferrari, sell fewer cars to more money to fewer people. I'm starting to see, in the old days, every Porsche, you know, Ferrari had 800 miles, and Porsche had 60,000, and Corvette, same thing. They used to do the shootouts, which is fastest. The only ones that showed up would be Corvette and Porsche. Everybody else just didn't, And you now you have cars like people buy a GT3, and I'm putting it away. Yeah. They know it's going to be okay. I mean, that's the sad part. I would hate to see them become, partially they've always been expensive, but they're not rare. There's a lot of them around, they make a lot of cars. Using that Ferrari model, well you can make more money with fewer cars. But now you have this elite clientele, and The great thing about Corvette is it's an aspirational car. If you're a guy with your own plumbing business, boy, you can aspire to own... Yeah, it's over 100,000, but it's not 1,000,000. At some point in your life, you can get one. You can get one. And that's that's what I like about it. I hate... And everything is that way now. Hotels are either... Either Motel six or it's a Four Seasons. Yep. The middle dies, you know? Yeah. Fast food or top end restaurant. The Applebee's, the Denny's, just regular restaurants, because we we have no middle class anymore, that's the sad thing. Yeah, sad.

Speaker 2: Were LA's roads always horrible, or have you felt them get it? No, they've always been horrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I joke about the G Wagon being like the LA car, because you need like a four by four to get around. Well, because gee, these roads are awful. That's what people say.

Speaker 5: Yeah. You know, it's so funny, and there's no excuse for, I mean, you go to Detroit and you've got frosties and it's winter. Okay, understandable.: Yeah.: It's a beautiful day every day, except for that Thursday when it rained. I don't know why the roads have to be so awful. Yeah, it's crazy. It's really a... I've... And Tesla especially is susceptible to this. I've had five blowouts. Wow. Just bam! You hit a pothole and you go, and just a huge pothole. And it'll take weeks for the pothole to be fixed. And when you hit the same one twice, that's when you really go crazy. Yeah. There's a huge pothole on my commute here. I've hit it every day for a year.

Speaker 2: It's constantly, I need to report it or something. Our friend Jason had the idea of going and doing a performance art, going and filling up overnight, filling up all the pot holes with dirt and flowers as a way to try to draw I attention to think it would fix it. No. Maybe LA has bigger problems. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: You think Mission S will be fun to drive?

Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so. All Porsches are fun to drive. Yeah. The electric one is nice. Yeah. But that that's the classic example of quartz versus mechanical. Sure. Porsche people don't like electric. It's just, I mean, it's fast, it does everything it's supposed to do. You know, I drove the REMAK.: Yeah, That's the era.: And it's, although it's 2,500,000 more, it's a tenth faster than the Plaid.: Yeah. And it's either... And that's it. There's no click to the shifting, you know, the same way when you wind with these, you hear the...

Speaker 1: Yep. It's either get it or you don't. Well, feels like Mate learned a really valuable lesson from that project Yeah. Which is double down on heritage and Yeah. And mechanics and the emotion,

Speaker 5: and it doesn't seem like he's gonna be going deeper down that path. No. I I think... Because remember, they were all supposed to be electric at twenty thirty, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And that that went away. No. So now I think you'll you'll you'll have your high end Yeah. Extremely complicated mechanical Yeah. Cars Yeah. Which is what people like. The more valves, the more pistons, more weather. Yeah.

Speaker 1: It's interesting. What do you think of the Tesla Roadster demo? The circus act of the kick flipping. Well, I I think...

Speaker 5: People don't want electric cars. They put rocket engines on it. That's not technically electric. No. But I think you I think you're seeing Tesla move from a car company to a space company. Yeah. I mean, what you're doing is showing off your space technology. Yeah. Okay. Because you've got cars from China. You've got cars... Tesla's getting hit on every side, plus the politics of it, somehow getting involved in that cost But him a with the gas prices, well Tesla sales were back up again, so it did okay. But I think the car business is, it'll be hard to make money because somebody will always have something cheaper. Mhmm. You know? So I think that's their transition into

Speaker 1: driverless and outer space, Yeah. I How did you grapple with the pull of politics through your career as a talk show host? It feels like there's a lot of pressure from audiences to

Speaker 5: address the current Take a stance. Take a stance and... Well, yeah. I I'm I'm, you know, write joke, tell joke, get checked. Very simple. Very simple. You know, it depends. Johnny and I had the same theory, I'm not putting myself in Johnny's class, I just mean the fact that you may smell both sides equally. And that worked fine. And then all of a sudden other talk shows come out to you, You've to take a side. Well, it's not my job. It's not my job. You know, when you go out in the real world, when you perform in Hollywood, you get exactly the audience, you do a chump joke and they all cheer. Yeah. Okay, fine. You go to Indiana and half of them or a third of them boo. Yeah. That's unfair, it's whatever. And when you sell real tickets to real people, so I announce, I'm just taking politics out of the act. I made a few references or whatever. Yeah, of course. You know, ticket sales are up 20, 30 because it's people are like when I go see James Taylor, don't wanna hear a lecture, Well, yeah, I like the rainforest. It's good. That's a tree. I can't hear Sweet Baby James. I want to hear the music. So it wasn't that hard when I did it. It wasn't that... I mean, when I knew, Dim you and your Republican friends, I hope, Dim you and your Democratic buddy, when both sides like you and hate you at the same time, well, then you know you're doing something right.: Yeah.: What else did you learn from Carson? Well, I mean that as a model, that format is dead. I mean podcasting is the new thing.: Sure.: I mean, the thing that really killed it is not the fact that Letterman and I were so good or any of that nonsense, we just happened to be there at the right time. It's the last days. They passed a law, since they weren't making as much money, after 11:30 at night you could have another eight minutes of commercials in an hour.: Oh.: You know, if I see Jake from State Farm again, I'm gonna shoot myself in the head. You know, I mean, I try to watch late night, I watch the monologue.: Yeah.: And then there's six minutes of commercials, and and the thirty second spots are so well done. Yeah. They look like two minute spots. Sure. Cars and explosions and airplanes... Airplanes... Meaning. Oh, okay. Really? And I go, jeez, this is dumb. Then we come back. The market open on CNBC is brutal too, in that you have like one minute of content and then back to ads for Yeah. Lots of minutes. It's terrible. And it's like, it's actually so And it's funny because TV used you'd to go out and say, ever seen that commercial with a guy, oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it. Nobody knows. Oh, that's right. Because everyone's seeing slightly different ads Yeah. And he's connecting Nobody nobody sees. It's really hard for to break through. The only thing where network or traditional TV, sports Sure. And some event happening right now. Yeah. Let's go with our cameras right now and that kind of... Everyone used to know like the the Clydesdales or the Right. Pella Pella Bear and like those Well, example, they shoot game shows now in Ireland and they fly Americans over.: Woah. To be in the audience?: To be in the audience. So you think it's shot in America, but it's shot in Ireland.: Yeah.: I don't know why it costs so much. You know, we did an awful show for Mattel, this Hot Wheels show. It wasn't a very good show. And for two years, three years, we shot at my garage and I donated the garage, and they made a donation to a charity. It was cheaper to send 175 people to Ireland, put them up for two months, pay them a verdium Yeah. Than it was to shoot in my garage for two days. That's crazy. Is that taxes in Los Angeles and California Well, that's all or tax incentives Well, all the things. The other get the incentives here. Like here, if you go down Coahuenga, it's $5,000. You make a left, oh, it's another 7,500. But you can go right, but there's a formula. They figure out where you want to shoot. You can just go on those streets.: Yep.: You go down the other street. The guy... I saw you go down the other street. Yeah. You know. I mean, it's starting to change a little bit now, but it's a bit like the barn door, you know. The horse has left. I mean, everybody's in Atlanta and every other place now. Yeah. How did you navigate

Speaker 2: this relentless nature of of show business? This is something, you know, you You

Speaker 1: didn't find it relentless. You know, AM to midnight every day? Had real jobs. They suck. Okay.

Speaker 5: You know, you get paid pretty good. Sure. You know, if you're a cop or a nurse, your days are hell, you get hurt, you get beat up, and you make $400 a week.: Yeah.: You know, I always tell people, the wage war, you're going to get screwed, but when you get screwed, you get a big pile of money. Okay, so here's the thing, you're going to get screwed. Tell guys, don't fall in love with a hooker, because that's what show business is. Eventually, it's going to end badly. But when it does end, hopefully have a big stack of cash. Yeah. You know, my favorite joke, I did a joke about Charlie Sheen, you know, Sheen went through $200,000,000. Remember when he did that whole thing? And the joke was he spent it on cocaine, gambling, and women. And the rest of the money, he just wasted. That's that's my favorite joke. My favorite joke. What...

Speaker 1: Can you explain to me Yes. Difference Yes. Between what it takes to perform at various time slots? 10:30, 11:30, 12:30. This informed so much of the late night wars, and I never fully understood why someone would work at midnight but not 11PM.

Speaker 5: We came up in the on demand era. Well, I think Yeah. Matter. Did. That's what I What what was it? Well, who's up late at night? College kids Okay. Out of work people Okay. Whatever it might be. Okay. So the audience is different. Yeah. Who goes to bed at nine? This person, that person. Okay. I mean, that's really the way they do it. Yeah. Because when you watch every ad now, it's

Speaker 1: Advil and all kinds of pain relievers and... Yeah. For the late nights. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. All that. And so you would see that feedback of someone took a particular slot and they're not performing well in the ratings because

Speaker 5: they had a more mature or maybe a younger target audience in mind for those jokes, they weren't landing... Well, I mean, it's really... You see what people laugh at. This is why I went... This is why I was on the road every weekend. Yeah. Because when you're in the studio, a guy pushes a button, laugh Sure. Applause. Yeah. So you do some... Exactly. I rest my kids. Yeah. Just got some... Yeah. Was ask. I mean, it's so much... It's actually... But you do some... People that make content today have it so easy because you put something out. Yeah. Like, we'll get text messages live from our friends that are that are laughing,

Speaker 2: whatever, something's funny or hey, you should have this person on right now or this thing just happened or the chat will update us or someone will leave a review and say, you know, John just talked for ten minutes straight, no one else said a word, stuff like that. And we take all that, some of the stuff you naturally take to heart, other stuff you ignore, whatever.

Speaker 5: You guys, you're just kind of like in a bubble. And so for you Well, the trick is not to be in the bubble. So you go on the road and you just deliver Yeah, you try if this is real, and you get a sense of where people are, and what's fair or unfair when you... The joke should be pure, you know? People always say to me, I bet you wish you were on TV now with Trump. I go, No, because I don't like Trump, I can't stand the guy. And when you don't like someone, it's harder to be, know, with George Bush, I go, you know, I don't think President Bush quite understands, and people would start to giggle because you're alluding to the fact that maybe he's not the brightest guy. You're not just saying he's a big jerk, he's stupid, you know, you're not doing that. Yeah, I think he quite gets it, and then there's snicker snicker, you know. And that's what worked for me, you know. When you truly dislike a guy, it's hard to be funny about it. I used to, there was a comic, I wouldn't say who he is, but he got divorced. It was the worst thing that happened. He'd be on the... Anyway, my ex wife.

Speaker 8: She had a lot. And the joke

Speaker 5: wouldn't be... Get funny because it's like, this is something... That's first thing.

Speaker 2: Did Yeah. You ever have... Is there anybody that stands out as somebody that you would sort of joke at or criticize on the show, but in real life you were you You got along really well? Well, that's just about everybody. I mean, that's what this show is. Yeah, Yeah,

Speaker 5: that's basically what you did. That was your living. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Think that's fair to say. Yeah.

Speaker 1: How do you think about the importance of repeatable formats,

Speaker 5: like top 10 lists and certain headline Well, if something works, you do it again. Headlines work for us. Yeah. The man on the street stuff works for us, because we never talked to any... And we never had a ringer. We never talked to more than 20 people a night. We'd use 16 of them. You know, how was Mount Rushmore formed? Erosion. You know, and Great. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Like, not only five... Five of our greatest presidents. I mean, the wind, the rain. Yeah. Magic. And in the right order. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's In the right order. I mean, what what's the odds Yeah. Of nature doing that? You know? People on the street. Yeah. But that that... Yeah. You know, Letterman had the top 10 list, and we had headlines, and jaywalking and some of the other stuff. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was fun. Did

Speaker 1: you and the team try and

Speaker 5: incubate those? Like, think of new formats that would be repeatable? Yeah. And you try some of the ones that are not repeatable. You don't repeat. Yeah. If they don't work, don't keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that that... Comics are inherently lazy. And they'll get, you know, this joke worked in Denver two years ago. Okay. That was in Denver two years ago. Yeah. Okay. It hasn't worked in two years. You either go move to Denver and keep doing the joke or you can come up with something new. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: The holy trinity. I wanna hear your reflection on the Holy Trinity and then Of Supercars, you mean? Supercars. We're back to cars. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I wanna hear, do you think we are about to enter the new Holy Trinity with the w one, the f 80, and the Mission S? There's been some grumblings about that, but people are debating.

Speaker 5: Well, I mean, that's kind of... I think the P-one has proved itself. The nine eighteen was good. But now the standard GT three nine eleven faster than nine eighteen was. I mean, progress moves. Yeah. It's... I mean, moves tremendously fast. Yeah. You never quite know what it's gonna be, what it is to one generation. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, the 04/27 Cobra, that was it. Mhmm. You know, Shelby used to put a $100 bill on the dashboard, and then he'd nail it. If you could you could get the $100 bill, you could keep it. And nobody ever could because you just, you know, you just. So that was sort of the that was sort of the the standard there. Yeah. Before that was Aston Martin, zero to 60 to zero in, nine seconds or something. Oh, that breaks and it goes fast. You know? Now those are, you know, an old lady who needs an Altima can do that, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I really buy the Holy Trinity, and you know, the Holy Trinity. It sells magazines, people need... Wanna take a side. Your your dad like Ferrari or you like Red or whatever it might be. They want structure. They want a format. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. People people like these formats. Well, they don't really read magazines anymore. I would hate I would hate to be in that business. Yeah. The magazine biz. There's a couple that are still doing well. Surprisingly... The Economist. I read the Financial Times. Well, yeah. Yeah. Those are... Those have do well, but it's just... Surprising thing is the coffee table book business is booming. Oh, really? Yeah. Is that true? Yeah. Interesting. Well, my favorite, I love celebrity books. Okay. Celebrity, you know, I've written a book, and it's a children's book, and it'll say, page one, cat, and I have some clever drawing. Yeah. Okay, that's not a book bomb, okay? That's a pamphlet, it says cat, school car. Okay. This is for someone prepubescent, some child at age five to six. You did not write a book. But I would have celebrities come. I've been working on this book for a while, Jane. Think it's a children's book. It's just the most simple poem, and it's usually roses... Oh, it begins the way they all... And I would pretend that, oh, this is really... Yes. That's not really a book. But you get... All you need is a good illustrator, and then you put the word cat or tree or something in there. Cat.

Speaker 2: Business Why don't you make the final children's book then? If it's so easy,

Speaker 5: I why don't you have a children's book. It was called A Roast Beef Could Fly. It did it did really well. That's great. No. It was really... But it was... You you think it was more of a book more of a book than a pamphlet? Well, was it was a it was a children's book. Sure. And it came with a CD where you can... Children's books for me, pamphlets for thee kind of Yeah, I think. I think We'll get copies of If you have more than 300 words, it can be a book.

Speaker 2: That's a very good When you have 15 words,

Speaker 5: mine was based on a true story. Yeah. Did you ever read the book? No, but I I'll order it, I mean, we through books. Well this you should burn through, and you can burn this one when you're done. Yeah. Oh, I'm No. No. Vehemently against burning books. What... Were there any particular business opportunities that you turned down while you were in the thick of Yeah. Routine. Million bucks to hold them a Budweiser can. Okay. Would that be on the show? Like, does that happen? Yeah. I don't drink. So I don't wanna I don't wanna be a guy, go to a bar, and I don't drink. Well, you... And plus, you can't get greedy. I was on TV every night. Yeah. I don't need to be on TV And when I'm in commercials in between when I'm on TV. Yeah. To come off TV and go, hi. I'm Jay Leno. You know? Yeah. So and so and so. You know? My favorite was, hi. I'm so and so. I'm here to tell you about... No. Shut up. I don't care really what a celebrity has to say. Okay. But it just makes me like, you don't know what you're talking about. You know. What about something more behind the scenes? Instead of being a spokesperson,

Speaker 1: someone comes to you. I mean, the car... The famous Carson story is the suits that he was not compensated for appropriately.

Speaker 5: Right. Right. I'm wondering about other business Well, have I have some... I have car accessory business. Sure. I do polishes and things, something that has a shelf life. But did that come up after you had finished your run-in Hollywood mostly, or were you... Came after The Tonight Show. Yeah. After The Tonight Show. Yeah. Were you getting your door beaten down by business opportunities throughout The Tonight Show? Well, people come with, you know, watermelon on a stick. This is gonna be a big thing. Sure. Okay. Great. Thanks, Bob. Yeah. You know? No. No. I... No. I... Stay focused. You know, I had... I make money doing this. Yeah. This seems to pay extremely well. I will stick with this. I had a friend of mine, he was a doctor, optometrist. He always wanted to open a hot dog stand. He opened a hot dog stand. And it was doing okay. Then, well, let me open another one on the other side of town where there's more people, and that did okay. And then he's running between... And then he lost his optometry business. Wow. Because he's... Really, really, Bob? The hotdogs? The eye thing is, I think, pays a little bit more money. Yeah. No, but this... Yeah. My my thing is when I have like...

Speaker 2: I have a guy that I've got my hair cut.

Speaker 5: And quite lovely, I must say, yes. Yeah, you do. I'm aiming for... I believe that is called a quaff.

Speaker 2: Anyway, so I'm sitting there, he's cutting my hair. Right. And he starts pitching me on the business that he's working on overnight. And I'm sitting there thinking like, you're sitting there with scissors around my head cutting my hair, I want you to be dreaming about cutting hair. I want you to be going to sleep. The last thought that you have is about the haircut that you're gonna do in the morning. Don't want you to, in this case, he was building some AI mumbo jumbo.

Speaker 5: No, you're correct. You know, there's... In my business, there's nothing harder than writing a joke. And I see comedians, hi, I'm so and so, but I'm being serious now, and I wanna do a special on it. Well, no, there are people that do this better than you. You know? Write the joke. Just... That's what you do, you write a joke. Why would I hire a comedian to give me a serious eulogy about whatever it might be? Why would I do that? But comedies all the time, oh, they want to sing. Oh, sure. Or they want to act. Yeah. You know? Know, Seinfeld and I always used to say, what if we went on vacation and we liked it? Then we'd be screwed, so we don't go on vacation. Yeah. Because telling jokes is it's... You show up, you get a huge amount of money. You know, I was in... Where is that? Alabama. Plane landed at 06:30, quarter to seven, got to the theater at 07:20, went on at 08:00, the tech come home. Fabulous. You know, no rehearsal, no teams, no, the drunk, the bass player's drunk, we've to find a replacement. You know, that's... Comedy is... If you can do it, it's pretty easy and it pays very well. And you get paid for doing the same thing over and over. You know, you can either do one HBO special and get this much money, or you can do a 100 dates and make twice that much money and you didn't give all your material away for free, you know? You make... You're on HBO, you're making a tenth of a penny per customer. You do a live show, you're making $25 a customer or maybe even $50 a customer. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Did you prefer comedy tours via plane or tour bus?

Speaker 5: Did you ever... I travel by myself. I don't... So plane? Yeah. Yeah. What what makes for a good tour bus experience? I have no idea. I don't believe there is such a thing as I don't believe there is such thing as a good bus experience. Okay. Okay. You know, this this... Hearing List your four wheels over here. The time. All the stuff. Big talk about being into motor vehicles and... No. I... You know, I I... He wants to hop in a plane the first chance he gets. You know, the trick is I can go to work Yeah. And when you have a plane, you fly, and you can do something else. I work in cars during the day Yep. And then I go out and I work... Know, it's that old saying, the heart, is healthy just where the head and the hands work together. Yeah. You work all day or something. Oh, then you stand on stage and go, this is so much easier than putting a transmission in. Yeah. And if I put a transmission on, I might have made $80 Yeah. For that day. I tell jokes. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's it's it's good. It's good.

Speaker 1: How much were you traveling? What was, like, your your peak travel year?

Speaker 5: Well, I'm doing 200 dates this year. 200 dates? I... I've done that. When I was doing The Tonight Show, I'd probably limit it to a 140 or so because it's only on weekends. Yeah. Or I would do Vegas after The Tonight Show during That the kind of stuff. So you fly? Yeah. So, yeah. I'm I'm still working. You know, I enjoy it. It's a lot of fun. You know, you think of a joke and you you tell it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah. Where where does your... Like, where are you where are you sourcing? How are you... You're in this bad spot. You're like, I I need some new jokes. What's your process?

Speaker 5: Is it sitting down and just and just, you know, not getting up until you got something? Yeah. I'm dyslexic, so I have nothing written down. Sure. If I don't carry it in my head, that's why like to work. Yeah. You remember stuff that's funny. You know, sometimes just simple jokes are easy to write, like this joke. Guy goes to the doctor. The doctor says, What's the matter? He says, Doc, it hurts when I press on my rib cage, it hurts when I press on my forehead, it hurts when I press on my cheekbone, it hurts when I press on my shoulder. Doc says, You got a broken finger. Fun. It's stupid, it's simple. You know, it's not... I didn't even need the laugh track for that one. They took the audience a little longer to get it. But I mean, just those kind of things, it's just... It's fun when you think of something like that. I would share with people anyway, so why not get paid? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Very simple. Did you always

Speaker 1: have the drive to continue creating, continue telling jokes, or was this something that, like, steamrolled you people? No, I always had, you know, I had depression era parents. Yeah.

Speaker 5: And if I don't work this week, I think I'm broke. You know, I have a pool I in my haven't been in it in thirty years. Every time I get near the pool, I hear, oh, is that what you do? You're a rich guy now? You sit in the pool? Okay. And then you're like, wait. You got nothing broken here? No. Alright. Yeah. I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go back and... Well, well, the McLaren, I'm driving it to fix it to... See, I I justify. Sure. Sure. There's way no to justify sitting in the pool. You're not... Got no time. The only time I did sit in the pool is when I went in to fix the light. Okay. Okay. And I fixed the light. Yeah. Now I'm wet. I'm wet for a reason.

Speaker 2: Do you maintain do you maintain your pool yourself? Like, you do all the --: Well, try to do what I can. Mean, you know, I don't do all work.: Well, but it's a good motivation, because if you've got to pay somebody else to maintain the pool, you're like, If I don't go to work tonight, right.: I'm gonna go broke.: Something, exactly. But that's the way I think. Mean,

Speaker 5: you know, funny stuff happens. You know, did a corporate event for McDonald's, and they gave me, like, a stack of Happy Meal coupons. So I'm not gonna throw them out. I might call you. So I'm driving the McLaren SR, which got so good. So I pull into the drive thru, I said, I may have two Happy Meals? Sir, we only limit to one Happy Meal per customer. I said, oh, well, okay. You just want... And he go, hold on. Oh, you're Jay Leno. Let me get to... No. Don't get to my... No. Don't get to my manager. Okay. Then the manager comes out. He's got the paper hat, you know. I'm busy. Could you pull up to the side here? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Pull up. Now the door goes up. Now all the kids see the door go up, so they come running open. Yeah. The guy goes, now we... Normally, we only allow one happy meal coming. I'm listening to this, and I hear a guy go, it's Jay Leno who's arguing over happiness. I'm not I'm not arguing over. I'm just talking to the guy, you know, and it just, to me, it just seems, it's just like, it just really made me laugh. Just the fact that he's, well here's normal, and we're gonna do this for you, but normally we we would only allow one happy meal. Yeah. You'd have to get in line again to get the second happy. You know? I feel like you... Yeah. You got the paparazzi being like, Jay Leno holds up... I like getting recognized. It's like high school with money. Known? Has phones changed the interaction? No. It's always... You know, someway, I generally like people. I like to talk to people. Nothing annoys me more than celebrities that just... Yes. What is it? I'm sure. Yeah. You know, why are you in this business? Okay. And does it take a little longer? Yeah. Sure. Like, for example, in the real world, one out of every 50 people I meet is a car person. So I can actually have a conversation. Sure. When I go to Pebble Beach, every single person there is a car. Yeah. So you can't go 10 feet. Yeah. We tended to get... So swamped. So... And now I find I kind of avoid those because I don't wanna be... I don't wanna say no to people. I know what you're... I'm sorry. Maybe it would be four hours to get Yeah. Right. One mile or something. Did you...

Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of your peers over the years retired. Is retirement... Anybody... Well, have a stroke. That's when you retire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But did any... Is there a way to do it well? Because I haven't seen No. I haven't seen anybody,

Speaker 5: at least so far in my life, like, retire that well. Yeah. What are you gonna do? Drink? Gamble? I mean, what are you gonna do? What are gonna do? Retire? I mean, to most people, it's it's your life, anyway. If you have a... If you're selling insurance, okay, that can get a bit tedious. You don't have to sell insurance when you're retired. But just... I mean, you're still gonna think of funny things to say when you're retired, but you don't want any place to say them. And see, the thing about comedy is when you stop, you can never go back. You can't go back five years later, because people now expect you to be five times better than the last time they saw you, and they think, you know, they think you're just talking off the top of your head all the time. They don't realize you've done this a million times and we've tried to perfect it and hone it and all this kind of stuff, you know. So when you haven't done it and when you haven't done it for a long time, the stage is in a strange place to be. When you're on stage every day, it's second nature. When you do it once a month and someone comes, your attention goes to that, you know. So you have to keep doing it. I mean, I remember Eddie Murphy said, oh, he's going to get back into stand up, and I would love to see him do it, but he was out of it for ten years. And where do you practice? Eddie Murphy's going be here tonight. Oh, I wouldn't have. Well, he's trying new stuff, you know. Muscle back, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I heard people say to me, I was on, him, not let him, a Fallon or somebody, and I said, I did new materials. The guy goes, You know, I saw you two weeks ago at the Comedy and Magic Club, you did the same material, so it wasn't new. I go, No, it's the first time I did it on TV. You have to, I tried to... You see, you have to practice. I could see this is just... Yeah. It feels like people have sort of lost the comedy conventions, like they don't fully... Because a lot of it's just... No, they haven't. Know, it's exactly the same. No. I I I mean the audience understanding

Speaker 1: the conventions.

Speaker 5: No. I don't find... No. I think it's always this... You know, somebody... If I showed you a Rudolph Valentino movie from the twenties that was... Had women swooning, you'd be laughing. Yeah. It's boring. It just takes a long time. You know, it's all, oh, okay. But if you see Keaton Chaplin, you know, fat guy in a tuxedo falls in a mud puddle, I'm sorry. People laugh Yeah. Just as much now as they did. It really has... Funny is fine. That stupid joke I just told you, you could have told that at any time from from from the from the... The discovery of broken finger. Yeah. From any point in history, from the Renaissance to now Yeah. It would work. It still works. Yeah. Yeah. Is is that all... I mean, it's funny because in

Speaker 2: tech world, everybody's been watching and and more broadly, everybody's been watching the new Nathan Fielder movie and it has this reference to Who's On First? Right. And so people have been watching that back and saying it's like it's a little hard to get through now because it's like six minutes long and they're going around and... Yeah. It takes long time. And you have to... I remember watching...

Speaker 5: You know, that came out right after Hiroshima. Wow. And they and the guy says, see Hiroshima looks like Emmett's field after a Dodger game. I go, okay, well that wouldn't work now. That would not apply now. No, But you just fought these people for five years. Yeah. The Japanese were the worst to the American prisoners of almost any people, torture So it seemed justified to say at the time it got a big laugh, but it wouldn't work now. Comedy's gotta change with the times. Mean, when I was a kid, you'd see racial jokes on TV, oh my God. Or women drivers. Well, women are fine. Why can't, why couldn't a woman drive? Are you talking For sure, sure. You know? Yeah, all the tropes change. Yeah. That's right. Remember when The structure. I think it was when Harry Reasoner retired, he said, Bringing women in to be anchors is not something I think because people will listen, I'm shut up. That kind of stuff, you know? He also said, I'm glad I'm leaving now because I don't wanna have a computer in my house. I mean, people talk that way. Why would you want a computer? Well, how how bothersome and annoying would that be? Yeah. But, you know... Now everyone does. There you go. Everyone does.

Speaker 1: Do you like the cell phones going in those sealed bags during a comedy show? I I don't care. You don't care? I I I don't care. I mean, it's like,

Speaker 5: if your stuff is good enough for somebody to steal, I guess that's flattering, I suppose. But you know something, what are you gonna worry about everything? Yeah. Somebody told them the jokes I told them. Oh, yeah. Well, okay. You you didn't pay anything for the joke. Just thought of them. I mean, if somebody steals your movie, I won't cause that's different, but... Sure. No. I don't do that. I I don't like I don't like charging people for autographs or or a picture. Yeah. You know? It's $300 to take a picture. Really? People charge for photos and Yeah. Autographs? I've never... A lot of people... The thing that I've heard is people will grab the photograph and say, I'd love to sign it. Who should I make it out to? Because they don't wanna sign to no one so that it... Oh, when it shows up on eBay. Yeah. When it shows up eBay. Who cares? Yeah. Oh, and somebody paid $50 for your picture. Oh, that's that's that's pretty good. Yeah. Pretty nice. Somebody actually bought my picture. Well, that's... You know, it's fun. Be happy. Be happy. You know? Just be happy. Be happy you don't have a real job. Yeah. Because real jobs are horrible. I read my case. Yeah. It's true. This is a pretty good gig. No. No. But it is. I mean, it's fun. You come to work and, you know, it's

Speaker 2: not the same thing every day. No. No. Because the news moves... That's so refreshing. Yeah. People people have asked us. I mean, we we never John had done to media stuff prior to this, but I'd always been more behind the scenes and I never would have imagined being on being on camera. It wasn't something I aspired to. I didn't Yeah. I I didn't necessarily do it for attention. But the fact that every single day, like, John and I would be having the same exact conversations whether or not we were getting...

Speaker 5: It was a career or not. Right? Well, here's the thing that will save you. Please. No matter how much you're in media now, nobody knows who the hell you are. Yeah. They they really don't. Yeah. You know, the people. One guy came to see me and he said, oh, I didn't know you're a comedian. I thought you just, like, would bring a couch out and interview people. No. No. I was a comedian. Oh, good. Yeah. Most Yeah. Nobody pays... So the world's huge. Nobody gets recognized. I mean, unless you're the the it girl or you're the athlete or something. Like when I when I was... When we were doing The Tonight Show in the seventies and eighties, every... Next day, everyone, hey, you that guy I saw you last night? You would have to do 25 or 30 appearances to get more than a dozen people, because nobody... So fractured now. Everybody's watching streaming, and we all just there's no central... You know, I used to watch, like, the network news because I would learn about stuff I'm not interested in. Mhmm. So, oh, now I have that. Now I don't have that knowledge I just watch the news that I wanna watch. Yep. So you watch either your Trump news or you watch your, you know... Or members of the media.... To it. Yeah. Yeah. People only agree with you. Yep. They're in the bubble. Yeah. That's what I mean. So I I... That's why I like the road. You get outside your bubble, and it's fun. Yeah. What advice do you have for people that are afraid of AI? Well, the same thing I have. You know, I have a steam engine from 1866 in my garage, a big thing, and Luddite used to break in and smash it, because with the big wheel, it ran a thing, and it put 125 people out of work at a factory, because it's a big, you you didn't need all the people doing that. You know, there's a book you guys are probably like, by Simon Wrenches, it's called Precision. It's the history of precision. And before mass, you know, the, what do you call it? Mass manufacturing. Mass manufacturing. Every town had a craftsman. You had a guy, you'd have a gunmaker, and he would make a gun. That's right. Or maybe three a year, and a few people in town would have it. Sure. And then coal comes along and the mass manufacturing of guns, and everybody can have a gun. Not quite as precise, not quite as nicely made, but at least you can have it, you know. And so the craftsman went out of business because craftsman you don't really have craftsman anymore, even woodworkers that can really make furniture. What about Christian von Koenigs? Like, he's a Yeah, craftsman, isn't he yeah, sure. Yeah, is. But he... I think he's independently wealthy. Sure. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's... He can afford to build $5,000,000 automobile. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like the craftsman do stick around. They just become incredibly Well, what I'm They're saying is not a vital They'll always top part of every town. Yeah. They'll always be they'll always be crashing. Sure. Sure. It's just... It's not like it used to be. The reverence is not there. A 100%. You know? Yeah. The name and all that kind. Yeah. Now we're sort of getting back to it. You... When you buy a Corvette, the guy who built your engine, his name is on the block and Yeah, I understand. Oh, and in fact, I had the guy and his family come out to visit my car and the kids got to see their dad's name on the... You know, they like... That's cool. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of cool. So to a certain extent, we're getting back to that a little bit. But... Yeah. Yeah. I'm a very optimistic person. I think it's fine. I mean, for all the... You know, I like watches. I have a very obscure watch, 1873, and you wind it by... When you open the the case Yeah. That... That's how it winds. Very interesting. Yeah. Built eight... Oh, the guy only made three of them. I said Woah. Let me see if there's anything on the Internet. Second and a half. Full history. The guy exactly... Well, all this... I was trying to find how long the stem was. Yeah. All the information. I I went, oh my god. Yeah. This is unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, that would not have been possible. Yeah. If you're if you're, like, an enthusiast in, like, a very niche category, it's, like, the most amazing

Speaker 2: thing in the world. Because before, I mean, I just remember It's awesome. Even in cars, you're like, let me spend eight hours navigating Yep. Around some forum Yeah. Or or let me look at all these old YouTube videos. And again, it's just like, as much as it's part of the process of like searching and hunting for information, I don't really miss like spending three hours trying to find one fact that I'm just trying to get that so I can Well, get sad thing is the disappearance of libraries.

Speaker 5: And that's really sad because that... Now you have poor people who could not afford a computer or whatever, could go to a library, and they were now equal to everybody else because they had access to the same information. That's what's bad. Really, I don't know. Everyone has would phone almost would And everyone can get information, but the phone also has all the distractions on it, whereas the library didn't. Right. Right. Yeah. What do you think, Yeah. Was just gonna say, I mean, I I...

Speaker 2: Technology is more... I thought you were just saying the disappearance in libraries is like a place that people would go. Me too. We still massively utilize our local library and... Yeah, but you do, most... Going to any library,

Speaker 5: When I was a kid, it would be very crowded. Yeah. Now there are a few people milling around. Sure. Sure. Sure. You could get the homeless guy looking at porn and, you know, that... That's that's about it. Yeah. Oh, well. You can't look at... See, you have to go to the library to look at porn. That's sad. You

Speaker 2: can't look at You should have an Apple Vision Pro. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. Well, you could you could start a new library or museum or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5: But, no, I I think it's all good. It's... You know, you can't stop progress. Sure. You know, this... That's the stupid thing with these tariffs. Yeah. You know, the the great thing about America was you could get stuff that was restricted in other countries. Sure. You know? It's like... It wasn't the Soviet jeans thing. Yeah. That's right. So you could just buy... Get whatever you want. Now, oh, no. We we can't have that because, you know, we're gonna build a wall. So we don't get the new technology. We'll live on the old technology. Meanwhile, everybody else is Yeah. Exactly. This is why we got to where we are now because we didn't have tariffs. Yeah. That's that's my idea.

Speaker 1: Do you have a bucket list?

Speaker 5: No. I'm trying to get out of doing stuff, actually. Nothing I don't wanna go anywhere. No. I'm I'm fine. I'm doing alright. I'm okay. Write joke, tell joke, get checked. Very simple.

Speaker 1: Simple process. I love it. That's a great philosophy. Well, that's a fantastic place to end it. Thank you so much for... Well, thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Thanks, you guys. Thank you. We'll close out the show with you. You can just hang out. Thank you very much. Give us five stars on Apple Podcast and Spotify. We'll see you tomorrow at 11AM Pacific. It makes all the lights in the studio go very bright. We love you. Boom. Oh, I like it.