Summit Sotheby's CEO on Utah's luxury real estate boom: Deer Valley doubles terrain, buyers skew younger, wellness amenities replace theater rooms

Speaker 2: We have our first guest. First, let me tell you about Figma. Agents meet the canvas. Your AI agents now create and modify their Figma files with design system contacts. We have Thomas Wright from Summit Sublease International Realty.

Speaker 1: CEO Here he is. Principal broker. Welcome to

Speaker 2: show, Thomas. How are you doing?

Speaker 4: Hey. It's great to be on with you two. I didn't know I was a cow, but I learn something new every day.

Speaker 1: We're all cows of the future.

Speaker 2: You're you're a raging bull.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Hopefully.

Speaker 4: I don't know. You're not bull. Coming down on his back. That's right. Bull.

Speaker 1: Yeah. No. But you're the you're the cow. Yeah. So Matt's an owner. Guy is is the AI.

Speaker 2: Exactly. So you're... So in a world...

Speaker 4: I like to come down hard on people but not that hard. I mean, that's brutal.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That was a little...

Speaker 2: That that that's a little warning shot to the super intelligence.

Speaker 5: Oh, If

Speaker 2: you get out of line, I'm gonna buck you off.

Speaker 1: You're the cow.

Speaker 2: Smash you. I'm the futuristic cow. Cyber cow. Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to hop on the show. Since it's your first time on the show, I'd love for you to give us a little introduction on yourself and your business and set up the conversation for us a little bit.

Speaker 4: Yeah. My name is Thomas Wright. I'm the CEO of Summit Sotheby's International Realty, is the Sotheby's affiliate in Utah Mhmm. Based in Park City in Deer Valley. I've had the privilege of being with the Sotheby's International Realty brand since 2008. And since that time, have helped build and grow eight different Sotheby's affiliates in five Western states. So, residential real estate brokerage has been my thing, and the Sotheby's International Realty brand has been a big part of that. It's been a gift, and it's really launched me into the luxury real estate space that's kind of been my life ever since. So the Western resort markets are a thing for me and Yeah. Love selling real estate.

Speaker 1: That's great. Amazing. What were the stops on the... Along the way to Utah?

Speaker 4: You know, I was born and raised in Utah. I am a native Utah. Not... A lot of people have come here. They call it home now Utah's experienced tremendous growth, but I was born and raised here. I did go to high school back east, lived in DC, and spent some time in Southern California. But yeah, I've always been in Utah.

Speaker 1: But with with with Sotheby's, was it... You you you said you'd helped build out a few different offices? Or did I hear that wrong?

Speaker 4: Sorry. You just broke up a little bit.

Speaker 1: You said with with Sotheby's you had been... You had helped set up a a handful of regional Yeah. Offices. So where were those? All within Utah or or outside of the state?

Speaker 4: No. In Colorado, many of the resort markets of Colorado and in particular on the Front Range, also in Boise, Sun Valley, Reno and Lake Tahoe, Las Vegas, the desert, the Coachella Valley Of California, and then the Central Coast Of California from San Luis Obispo to Ventura.

Speaker 2: And Very cool. And and can you help explain just the structure of Sotheby's and how you fit into that as like a CEO and there's an affiliate? Like where... What is the structure of the corporation? Because it doesn't seem like you're just like a rank and file employee of a large corporation like so many other institutions.

Speaker 4: No. Really good question. Yeah. So it's a franchise model. Sotheby started... They had the idea that if we were gonna help people sell Rembrandts at the auction house that we should be able to help them sell their real estate.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: So in 1976, the auction house owned and operated different markets around the country. Some of the higher end markets like Manhattan and Palm Beach

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: Sun Valley, Jackson Hole. And then in the... In about the year 2000, they decided that it was better to franchise the opportunities to people in local markets that knew the markets, that were locally connected, and that had the entrepreneurial spirit that could build and grow those businesses in those luxury markets. Yeah. And so that's where it all started. And since then, it's become fully subscribed across the country, and it leads the way in the luxury real estate space.

Speaker 2: And then what is what is your business look like, your day to day look like? How much of it is recruiting and managing talent under you versus actually interfacing with clients, selling properties yourself? Is it a hybrid? What's the what's the balance there?

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's been a hybrid for me. I I love the sales. I still maintain a very active sales business in the state of Utah. I think that's made me a better leader. It's allowed me to understand the changes that have happened in the luxury real estate space as well as the general real estate market. And it's kept me connected to building the services, that our real estate brokers utilize in their everyday businesses to give our customers the best possible experience. In yesteryear, real estate brokers kinda tried to do everything themselves. Mhmm. They were kinda the the jack of all trades and master of none. Now the industry has become much more sophisticated.

Speaker 5: Yeah. You have a

Speaker 4: lot more sophisticated people selling. The businesses are sophisticated. The assets are obviously worth a lot more than they've ever been. Yeah. And so you see brokerages, like Sotheby's Realty that builds a full service model to support those agents in their transaction management, videography Sure. Digital media, advertising campaigns, and and evaluating the asset and making sure that the contracts are set up, right, and there's good risk management for the clients.

Speaker 2: So what is the... Oh, sorry, Jordan.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to jump right in. I want to talk about the market Yep. Overall at a high level, and then I want to go into some of these submarkets. And, you know, we'll talk about Utah, but what you're seeing across the Western resorts markets.

Speaker 4: Sorry. You broke up again. I don't know if it's me or the connection. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: So so let's talk about the market overall right now. We're well aware that pending home sales are at their lowest level since it sounds like you started at at or even lower than when you started at Sotheby's back in...

Speaker 4: Overall real estate market is... It's very tricky. In the k shaped economy that we live in, there's a there's a... There's really become two different real estate markets. There's the general real estate market, and there's a luxury real estate market. And the luxury real estate market, has really surged forward. I mean, you have now the upper 1%. I was just looking in the Sotheby's Luxury Outlook report represents $54,000,000,000,000, and they are looking for more than just real estate. They're looking for lifestyle, time with family. They're looking for unique experiences, and the general real estate market has kinda separated itself from the luxury market. The way we evaluate properties, the way we market and expose luxury properties is very different than what we do in the general real estate market. And for example, one of the big things is privacy and security.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: That's become a real thing in the AI age. Yeah. People at the top of the market don't want their, you know, photos broadcast all over the internet for the general real estate market because the buyers for their property are a unique set of people.

Speaker 2: So how does that match against needing to promote properties through Instagram carousels and reels and bringing influencers in? It feels like the promotional machine around some of these properties is incredibly robust. Is there a tradeoff there? Or is there a strategy for that balancing act?

Speaker 4: Yes. There's definitely a strategy. I think now consumers demand more than a one size fits all strategy that we've seen in the real estate market in years past. Yeah. And we're fortunate to be led by a change agent, somebody that really understands this and is willing to bring change to our industry with Robert Revkin. Yeah. I mean, he understands that consumers want a custom approach for their property. And it could be somebody in the general real estate market that has a security concern. Maybe they don't want somebody somebody who has a restraining order against them knowing they're selling their property. Or maybe it's a high end client like those NFL players whose homes were targeted when they were on the road. Sure. You know, our job now is to sit at... In... With clients and ask them how do you want your property promoted? What do... What risks are you willing to take? How much exposure do you want? And what can we do to fulfill our duty to you? Yeah. And not to some one size fits all system that that we have with the MLS in yesteryear.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That makes sense. What about...

Speaker 1: What about like overall, like, imagine you you spent time in a lot of these different markets. You have somebody coming in that's interested in what Utah has to offer. But I imagine a lot of buyers are like looking at a lot of the other places you previously set up. Somebody might be trying to decide between, you know, Utah, Deer Valley versus Jackson or somewhere in Colorado. They might still be looking at Sun Valley and there's like trade offs in between all the different sort of regions. What's

Speaker 4: your

Speaker 1: what's your pitch for for Utah? And then when would you send people to other places?

Speaker 4: I love that they shop all the resort markets. I think that's fabulous. I was in our office in Jackson Hole... Or I'm sorry, in Lake Tahoe one day. I saw a client. I came home, and then I saw the same client walking into our Park City office. So they're definitely shopping the resort markets, and they should. There are... They're... They are all very different. They all have different attributes and unique things to them. And I just want clients to find what they what what works for them. So if it's in another resort market, I'm happy to refer them to somebody with Sotheby's International Realty in that market and let them let them find the property that works for them. Utah is unique because Utah has consistently been number one in business opportunity. We have a very friendly tax structure. We have the newest airport in The United States, which has has been a boon for our economy. We're becoming a sports city with the recent addition of the NHL team to Utah. And then best of all, the East Village at Deer Valley doubled the terrain of Deer Valley, while Xtel Development simultaneously is building, Four Seasons, Waldorf Astoria, their ski in ski out lots at Deer Valley. They already finished the Grand Hyatt. And then there's even a great affordable option called the Piosche Village where you can buy a condo really close to the... To ski access for about $400,000. Woah. And I know one of your avid listeners that introduced me to your show, Gavin Van Wagner, would be stoked to hear his name. But there is a plethora of options there at the East Village Of Deer Valley, and it's really doubled the terrain. So our resort market has experienced this incredible growth because we've been able to double the amount of of skiable terrain. And Deer Valley, you know, is consistently ranked the number one ski resort in North America. And you can get there now without going through one traffic light from the Salt Lake City International Airport, the newest airport in the country.

Speaker 2: Woah. Yeah. That's huge.

Speaker 1: Pretty good pitch.

Speaker 2: What what what is the the the history of the real estate market in Utah? Like what what are the key inflection points? I imagine COVID was a big one. Is the the the housing crisis like what what are the turning points where you noticed, okay, business is different. We're in a new normal. Take us through some of the history throughout your career.

Speaker 4: Yeah. I think Utah's always had this insecurity complex that like people didn't know we were here. You know? Like I grew... I was born and raised here, so I can say that. I think now we're looking going, why did we want everyone to

Speaker 2: know? Yeah.

Speaker 4: You know? I've seen it in a twenty year run. We've gone from one extreme to the other. So it kinda started with the Olympics in 2002. We hosted the Winter Olympic Games. Mhmm. And I think people kinda got exposure to Utah. Wow. Okay. Like Yeah. This is a place that, you know, we have a lot of the Olympic athletes that are based here now and train here because we have all the venues. The Olympics are coming back in 2034, which we're really excited about. And I think we saw the really steady growth through the great recession, but COVID really changed Utah. Okay. And the reason it changed it was people realized that you can access these incredible mountain communities and this this unmatched outdoor lifestyle, whether it was the big Cottonwood Canyons where Snowbird and Alta are or the Red Rock, you know, National Parks Of Southern Utah or experiencing Park City and Deer Valley. Utah just has this incredible outdoor lifestyle. And I think during COVID people realized, hey, I'm gonna work remote anyway. This seems pretty affordable compared to Vail and Aspen.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: And, you know, the airport's closer. It's easier to access. It's tax friendly. The people here are super friendly. It's a great place to live. We have the highest volunteerism in the country. Like, Utahns are all about just helping their neighbor. And people kinda figured it out, and COVID was a huge turning point for Utah. And since then, it's just... It's been nothing but accelerated growth.

Speaker 2: What what features of houses at the high end are are are newly trending? Like... And what... I mean I guess what what what's on an upswing? What's on a downswing? Like what what what was in a previous era the the the hot amenity that is no longer and vice versa. I'm I'm interested in...

Speaker 4: Good question. I I want to host you guys in Park City, Deer Valley. So you reach out to me. Come. I'll show you some of these luxury homes in Deer Valley.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm

Speaker 4: Yeah. Let's do it. Come out and let's check them out.

Speaker 1: Yeah. We we actually talked to a couple buddies like last year about doing a... Like if we were to do a winter event, Utah would definitely be at the at the top of the list.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm I'll be your planner. Alright? I'll make sure you get in all the right restaurants and Perfect. Ski all the right runs and experience the Utah lifestyle. So you've reached out to me. I think the biggest amenity, it's life, it's wellness and health.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 4: People care more about their health and their wellness and their well-being than they ever have. And so you see in these homes a lot of red light saunas

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 4: Steam rooms, cold plunges

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 4: You know, advanced yoga or fitness opportunities. Those seem to be really popular. And maybe the one of yesteryear. I don't know. The theater room was kind of the thing at one point. And now you see those conversions back into fitness rooms. I don't know

Speaker 9: if you agree with that.

Speaker 1: Love the charge. Basement bar and I

Speaker 2: love a theater room, a full projector. Spot, but I'll be picking up for a bargain apparently, which is good. Good

Speaker 4: case for me. Well, you when you... And hey, they're still popular. Yeah. But when you come to... And people stream now too. Right? Like getting a video... A movie and watching it on DVD.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And TVs are so big that they're basically cinema quality now. You don't need the dedicated light controlled theater because the OLED's so bright. Like, there's a lot of other solutions.

Speaker 4: But when you guys come to Deer Valley, I'm gonna get you a beautiful luxury home with all these amenities and a theater.

Speaker 2: And a theater. Here we go. That's great.

Speaker 1: How... What... What's the seller's mentality right now? When when do people when do people leave? You know, they they... Is it is it changes in whatever period of their life? They're not using the property as much? Are there people that are waiting that wanna sell into this sort of liquidity cycle that's happening? I heard of a recently exited tech founder that immediately bought three, like within within three months of selling, he bought three homes within, you know, a very very, you know, call it a tenth of a tenth of a square mile, something like that. Yeah. So I do think that's gonna be potentially a driving force in a lot of these resort regions, but what what's what's the view viewpoint?

Speaker 4: Well, these buyers are much younger for sure. I mean, I've always viewed myself as young and now in my 50s, I look at these buyers, some of them are in their 20s and Mhmm. You know, early 30s. I I think they... Again, back to what I said before, I think they're looking for a lifestyle. They're looking for work life balance to the degree they can get it. They're looking for a retreat that's easy to access. They're looking for a place to unwind. They're looking for places to spend quality time with family and friends. Those are the drivers. And I think they're willing to hold that real estate when that's being offered. Like when they're getting that from the real estate, they tend to hold it. But we do see people that say, hey, Park City and Deer Valley has grown a lot and it has. Mhmm. And Sun Valley now appeals to me more because Sun Valley has been able to maintain its boutique small kind of feel. And so, you know, they migrate to different resort markets. We have somebody right now relocating from Aspen. Sure. And he's just kind of done with Aspen. He's had a great time there. He has nothing but positive to say and he wants to come and check out Deer Valley in Park City. So he sold his property in Aspen with, you know, Chris Kluge of Sotheby's International Realty and now he's coming to Deer Valley and looking for a property.

Speaker 2: Fantastic.

Speaker 1: In Utah, somebody that, you know, purely theoretically wants to balance winter and summer, you know, easy access, ski in ski out, also easy lake access, Where are you where are you putting them? Theoretically. Are you kidding?

Speaker 4: The Jordan L Reservoir is right there at the base of the East Village Of Deer Valley. Some of the best wakeboarding, water skiing, you can fish. The upper, Provo River, it's Blue Ribbon, Freestone, fly fishing, blow your mind. I'll take you guys when you come. But I think people come to Park City and Deer Valley for the first time in the winter, but it's the summer that actually gets them to buy here because the summers are spectacular. You know, 80 degrees, no humidity, fabulous, hiking, biking act... Opportunities, the ability to fish. What... Whatever it is you wanna do in the outdoors, it's here in Utah.

Speaker 2: How does that how does that compare to, Lake Castaic? Is that the one that we have here close to us? It's it's a not... No.

Speaker 1: I recently went wakesurfing in in in California and had a lovely time. Of the closest lakes to LA. Convenient. But it was extremely convenient. That that's my...

Speaker 2: The convenience factor. The

Speaker 1: convenience factor. Alright.

Speaker 4: And I think you just fly to Utah and be to one of these outdoor lakes in just the same amount of time. So Oh, boy. You guys dial me up and we'll trust me.

Speaker 1: We'll make it

Speaker 4: happen for you. You can wakesurf your heart out in the mountains of Utah.

Speaker 2: I love it. Amazing. What is your opinion or strategy around AI AI enhanced photography? When I look at properties, sometimes it's really nice to say, what would this look like with a renovation? At the same time, sometimes you click on one and you're like, okay, I have no idea what this house actually looks like. Disclosure, what's been your process for working through the new technology?

Speaker 1: Dude, I'll just jump in and say like there's an absolute epidemic of AI content on the on the Zillows and the And Compasses

Speaker 2: it's not disclosed?

Speaker 1: No. It's like Do clock it? People are taking it on themselves to AI enhance images of their home. And it's horrible because you're looking through and oftentimes it's like one real image, one AI image Confusion. And then one like just total render like Okay. And you come away from it being like this house, this asset must be terrible because

Speaker 2: If they're doing this to res.

Speaker 1: You won't even show let people do the AI work themselves. It's very easy. That's the point. Or at least very clearly label like real image, AI image. Real image, AI, you know, up res. But to me, it's like completely ruining these platforms right now and I think they need to take action to like do much better labeling of it. But anyways, I'm not I'm not in the...

Speaker 4: Dead on. You just answered the question. I mean, in our organization, especially with Sotheby's International Realty, you know, we are trained and taught that AI enhancement images that mislead people into thinking about property something it's not as is is not ethical and not something that we should be involved in. Somebody wants to take those images and drop them in to see what kind of changes they could make or improvements they could make. That's, I guess, their prerogative. So we are very careful with AI enhanced images because one, it's a misrepresentation of the property and it creates liability for us and for our client. But at the same time, it's just misleading them. So we we believe in, you know, incredible photography, photoshop it a little bit to clean it up, make the light better, to be a great depiction of the property. But AI is a step too far when you're making your property look like something it's not.

Speaker 2: Yeah. What what then... Obviously, capturing, like, real images and footage is really key. Like, what is in the portfolio? What is the strategy for actually showing a property off? Obviously, like, do you have to bring in a specialized drone pilot and a videographer and a photographer and invite a real estate influencer? There's, like, 17 people around the table when you plan to market a property or Yeah. Is that it? Okay.

Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, at at at Summit Sotheby's International Realty, which is the Utah affiliate of Sotheby's International Realty Yeah. We have in house photographers videographers. They're drone pilots. Cool. They're certified to use the Matterport three d.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. That's a big one too.

Speaker 4: So yeah. I mean, I always tell clients in in a general sense, the first showing is online. Sure. Whether that's us emailing photos to a high end client privately or them seeing it on the internet. Yeah. The first showing is online. You know what people do when they look at properties. They're not really looking for the perfect property. They're eliminating properties that don't work for them.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 4: So you've got to package and present every property to draw as many eyeballs in, but also to not be disqualified. And I think the industry in general, certainly not our organization, really struggles with the visual presentation of properties. I think if you go online and look at real estate, you'll see a difference between what we're doing and what a lot of our competitors do. I think I think they've lagged behind and it's disappointing. Yeah. I... Know, I'll look for clients at pictures and it's... Man. Like, some listings you see like seven or eight exterior photos before you see anything on the interior. You know? And we know from studies that people look at five to six photos and that's it. Yeah. That's as much attention span as people have online. Yeah. So there... There's a there's a system. There's an art to this. There's a process. And there's a way to be effective in marketing properties online.

Speaker 2: So that's ultimately brand. Yeah.

Speaker 1: How do you guys navigate working with like, does Powder Haven allow for external like representation or do they own the full end to end buying experience? And how have you worked... That's from Netflix. Yeah. And I'm sure you've had to interact in different ways with with other community, you know, like Discovery properties and things like that that that want to own the experience entirely. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Good question. We were involved in selling Powder Mountain before Reed purchased it.

Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.

Speaker 4: And when he purchased it, he he went private. There is some opportunities to buy and to sell in there, but he largely changed the master plan and the way that the project was being developed. Mhmm. So they've been cooperative with the brokerage community, and we feel like we can take clients there and expose it to them, but it definitely changed it. There's another, Yellowstone Club type property in Utah called Wasatch Peaks, And they've been, great to have us on-site and to tour the brokers through, but that's a by invitation club only. And you have to be invited to join the club, go through their vetting process, and be approved as a member before you can even be considered to buy real estate in the development. And I think that's a growing trend. You guys talked about the Beverly Hills project where, you know, they were selling the bonds and... Mean, you're... Founder bonds. Founder bonds. I watched your show. But there's a lot of there's a lot of different ways to approach it and I have opinions on that but we won't get into that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. No. I really want to know your opinion on on how you would advise a client where the seller of the property wants you to loan them funds are junior to billions of dollars...

Speaker 2: On the lake.

Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll discuss that on the lake.

Speaker 4: Okay. We'll discuss it on... I think you just said

Speaker 1: it all though. I think so. Anyways, Thomas, great to hang. Thanks for breaking down

Speaker 2: Thanks so much

Speaker 1: for business. Hey, take

Speaker 4: me up on the Utah offer. I'm not kidding.

Speaker 2: Yeah. We'd love to.

Speaker 4: Want to

Speaker 2: have you

Speaker 4: guys out. Make it

Speaker 2: easy We'll talk you soon. Have a good one.

Speaker 1: Thanks. Can't wait. See Let

Speaker 2: me tell you about Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents. And next, we have Kyle Schiller from Marathon Fusion. Is it over for gold? Let's go back.