Aaron Ginn on Nvidia GPU exports, the AI Belt and Road, and why the US must win the open-source race

Street Journal article you wrote. Aaron, how you doing? He's back. Yeah, doing well, man. Can you put on those sunglasses, Jordy? I can't recognize you without them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These ones. These ones. The Pit Vipers. Unfortunately.

So, so there's some crypto there's some cryptocoin that that people are using Pit Vipers to promote. So, we got to be careful putting be careful. But they do look great. But they were sent to us uh from a from the CEO, I think. From the CEO of Pit Viper. He just likes TVPN. He said, "Have some Pit Vipers.

" It's pretty cool that they like rotate up and down like this. Yeah, pretty cool. I've never actually worn any of these. I've been Anyways, it's great. Uh it's great to have you on. Um always great. the prime intellect CEO was on earlier and he said that you guys are working on some stuff together which is cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like they're handling the higher level like training layer if we're doing the underlying infrastructure uh distributed layer.

Uh but the yeah like going back to about the uh oped that I wrote I've been uh more or less battling encouraging the administration to take a more reasonable approach to the threats that Huawei has against our dominance on AI and uh when the uh I met and know the people who under the B administration that wrote the January 15 ruling that we don't really know by the way like what's going to happen.

We just heard rumors that things are going to change and they're going to be more positive towards Jensen and and Nvidia.

Uh but generally speaking, they wrote this kind of the the precursor framework that people understand is they created a G18 of AI countries which included like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, America, Canada, and some European countries about half of Europe. And the original Biden ruling, right? These are bureaucrats.

like there's not there's no it's not it's very vague law area under governance they're basically operating under 1980s missile technology proliferation law that was written back whenever we had Soviet Union but but so they're kind of regulating under that and the B administration you know a couple days before they're leaving decided that they would create this kind of G18 uh of countries and then a hundish other countries that were going to be basically prohibited or require license and you know absolutely countries tier three.

The tier three countries are quite logical. They're like Libya, you know, Venezuela, right? It's like, oh, okay, this makes sense. But the tier two countries required license was like Greenland, Portugal, you know, Switzerland, Austria, all of Eastern Europe was on the crap list.

All, you know, the president's right now and good in the Gulf region, all that was on the crap list. And then like kind of re random countries like Mexico. Mexico makes all of our servers and the original kind of press around this was regulating cheap power. So it was mostly competitive.

They they didn't believe Mexico gets used to send to China. They they just thought, "Oh, they have cheap power, so we should just, you know, say, oh, that's bad for America.

" And and so I've been advocating for this kind of idea of like this new Monroe doctrine of thinking that uh AI is more of a for operating base of America.

uh due to the neocons and neoliberals we have over 300 operating for operating bases in the world uh where our special forces are you know active and doing things that they don't tell us and so I basically was trying to like kind of you know think about the AI is kind of something similar where every deployment that is an American deployment is real estate that we own and that running the world growing like growing on our infrastructure is better than growing on Chinese infrastructure and It's either or.

And I think that under the B administration, there was this view that they couldn't do anything like, oh, they just make iPhones. Not to be overly dried, but they I think they had a kind of a less view where China was.

And as the data came out with uh more and more advancement on the ascent line under Huawei, more advancement under Deep Seek and Manis, it became very much clear that this actually was a race uh and that they were significantly closer than we thought. And so the goal then is proliferation.

Uh and that's essentially what the Trump administration uh the commerce department announced uh last week was that they were going to embrace a trusted proliferation model uh which is what I've been advocating for of this deployment of Nvidia gear running on an infrastructure running on our frameworks because it's either us or them.

Uh either the world uses dollars or uses something else like there there's not this kind of secular world where trade happens and it doesn't include a country. it involves us or involves somebody else and and that's becoming more socialized and more accepted.

Uh and so now they're trying to think of other ways to try to manage proliferation. Tom Cotton introduced a bill to GP track GPUs.

Not very bullish on that, but you know, like there there are other ways now people are trying to think about doing this rather than just saying, "Hey, Portugal, you have good beaches, but no GPUs for you. Saudi Arabia, we can sell you F35s.

We can sell you even, you know, ICBMs with no nukes on it, but hey, you can't get the Blackwell series. That's too risky for for us to do for you. So, there's a great resetting that's happening as good for America. Yeah. Yeah. What is your take on the recent Saudi Arabia deal?

Uh 18,000 Nvidia Blackwell chips going in with hundreds of thousands hundreds of thousands on the way. It seems like it's an affirmation of everything you've been saying, but what's your interpretation? Yeah, like like I I think that it's one way Huawei's already deployed there.

Uh so I think that that was a wakeup call and there's also a ton of Chinese um cloud companies that are doing deployments in the Gulf region. Uh but you know it's it's positive because it's again it's it's you have to realize that people are going to get this regardless.

So another good framework because because this is all like leading ed stuff and people get confused about what's actually happening. They also overly express our actual dominance on a particular area. But but think of it as like a MiG platform versus Lockheed or Boeing.

Like you're not gonna tell a country, hey, you just can't have a fighter jet. They're like, we're going to go get some MIGs, right? Or we're going to go get some I forgot the random the French one, right? That that dropped, you know, baguettes from the airplane, right? Whatever that French plane, right?

Whatever that that one is, right? Uh it like I forgot the name of it, but the the uh so it's it's like that. It's like it's like it's an either or question. So we either have a decision to engage with the country or not and then if they don't they're going to go somewhere else.

And with Saudi Arabia, which is a very clear ally of ours, very clear ally of Israel, the leader in the region with Israel, we have to be in a position of they understand this like like the the Gulf region kind of gets real estate and put crap in the in the building. They kind of like they understand that, right?

And and so this is something they can feel they can be very successful in.

And as well as it gets to kind of the the you know the Jedha Tower Burj Khalifa thing of like we're ahead we're winning the line right like all these like crazy projects that won't happen don't tell yeah but our data centers but but our data centers you know and obviously Saudi will have fantastic partners and Nvidia and I'm sure many other uh hyperscalers uh for their new factories that's the new we got to stop saying data center AI factories but uh but yes isn't just not is it is it is it correct to call it real estate today or is it something else?

Well, well, I think the dynamics behave like real estate like that's how the actual investors think that's how they get financed. The execution is different. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so I like the way that this blows out what I believe this is what like the premise of our model why we're part of like over about almost a dozen sovereign sovereign projects.

We're kind of the for for Nvidia, they they advertise us to a lot of their growing data centers internationally as Hydra is the best sovereign AI gotom market uh provider in the world.

So like we're really really good at this and and our operating model is is much more I think I mentioned this last time that think of it as like the airlines industry that that the the commercialization of AI is really resides in the platform and that platform is Jensen. It's not anybody else.

It's Jensen and and that's just like Boeing and you have these kind of like rare birds that that are coming out which is open AI but the the technology motor around open AAI as we come knownly accept is relatively commoditizable so its real value is the brand it's it's the accidental consumer product company as Ben Thompson likes to say.

Yep. So when you have the commercialization happening at the platform of Harvardly or like Boeing, you create lots of billion-dollar companies, you know, American Airlines, etc.

, Emirates, whatever, uh, but you don't really have this kind of parabolic power law outcome like you had with software defined like Google or Airbnb or Twitter or something to that effect. So when you have a world of works like that, Jensen becomes the play. Jensen is the platform.

You can still create lots of different successful companies that are very large. But I I'm very skeptical you're going to see this huge outlier into the stratosphere like we saw with other software defined modes.

Rather, it looks more like the airlines industry where there's lots of very successful people, lots of very successful uh you know winners, but there's no clear category leader.

There's no clear like so far ahead that nobody nobody kind of will ever touch it because the fundamental product is a product that gets deployed in a data center that gets run and commercialized and all the value is created there and everything else kind of plugs into it. It's the fastest way to become a millionaire.

Start as a billionaire and buy an airline. Yeah. This is a famous thing because like yeah the value doesn't really acrue to the airlines in the way that it does to consumer tech companies.

Of course, uh I want to talk more about uh this this idea that like it is valuable to America to have uh foreign AI models running on American infrastructure. Uh and maybe we could go back to the F-35. If we send an F-35 over to another country, they have the ability to use that however they want.

We don't really have control over that. We don't necessarily have a kill switch. Um obviously it's good economically because we sold it to them. We get some money. Uh that's nice.

But uh is there is there is there some downstream benefit to well now we're really allied with you because yeah we sold the planes but you're still going to have to remain friendly with us as we resupply and send you more screws and bolts to to manu to to maintain these planes.

Is there a similar analogy in AI factories or data centers where yeah you bought 18,000 Nvidia Blackwells but if you don't keep working with us those are going to die. you're going to need to replace stuff and you need to keep us an ally. Is that the goal?

Yeah, like that's my goal because I I believe America should win. I don't I don't believe in a multipolar world. I believe in a new Monroe doctrine. I believe that we should resort to the Americas and and some of that will be here. Some of that will be Mexico. Some of that will be in El Salvador.

We're already, you know, monetizing El Salvador with prisoners. So like why not them make fiber optic cables? Why don't they make fans? Why don't they like for in this in the service supply chain or textiles? like Mexico is the cheapest place for us to manufacture.

It's been that way for over a decade, but they don't have the technical capability to do it, which is why you don't see that there.

But but in the new Monroe Doctrine, uh my my thesis is that we reshore critical things to the Americas and then we have these we have these external allies that reinforce that just like the old Monroe Doctrine was America's and we had Britain that enforced it and with us and so the same thing goes with the ring of fire from South Korea down in Singapore that becomes our allies in that region.

We ship America goods there. They become America enclaves, but they're relatively sovereign.

They're they're identity, their own military and and partnerships like that not only advance, you know, like you said, like sell goods like there's announcement with the Boeing like I mean they already bought Boeing like so it wasn't both Riot Air and Sadia but they they're Boeing platforms.

They don't they don't have as many Airbuses out there because Airbus has a is a just so you know like the it's a very technical thing but their engine design is not really compatible with sand that well. So that's why they they prefer belly because it's more adaptable high heat.

Um so like either way like that that's an advantage to us because it's a form of soft power that we can allow the proliferation of not only safety for Americans globally but it makes us rich. Like trade is American. It's not secular. It's not something that just happens like we define it. The dollar is a platform.

Trade is us. We define we we rule the open notions because we say that it's important for us to trade. So like I there's kind of like this weird thing happening on the right that there's like these two types of like uh China hawks.

There's like OG China Hawks which is like me who believe that the way you beat China is you win. Then there's these new China hawks which are like protectionist semi-ocialist and want to withdraw from the world.

They believe in a multi-point world and and they kind of crept in but they're actually a little they're more on the left side of the spectrum and the tariffs and kind of attitudes around Nvidia you that's when you hear these things of like we shouldn't sell the world like kind of can wait on us or we don't need their goods we shouldn't trade um versus the original OG China hawks were like no we should trade trade is peaceful it's great it it decompresses issues between countries but it doesn't mean we give away the farm.

It just means that we rebalance and we make it fair. And and it was kind of this hot minute where like these like new neo channels got in charge and start doing these kind of crazy things with terrorists where we had no freaking idea what was going on.

Like believing that terrorists make us rich is one of the most profoundly illiterate things like I've ever heard from. I my background is an economist but but like it's it's literally stupid.

The places that have highest terrors in the world are absolutely poor and the places that make Internal Revenue Service Like again, I'm pro that, right? Because I don't want to pay taxes, but taxes or theft, right?

So the the but I'm I'm willing to engage in some type of fevery if it means that I'm safe when I go to I just came back from Bise, but I'm safe when I go to Bise. I'm okay. I'm I'm okay engaging in that.

Uh but but America only wins when we have this peaceful economic transaction that occurs with countries that want to adopt more pro-western frameworks. We should support that because when the world becomes more west, it becomes safer, it becomes more prosperous, people have rights.

We had Sam from Impulse Stoves on on earlier and he was saying that free trade is almost becoming a a liberal policy. You know, it's a liberal position now to just be like free trade, you know, just because as from a reactionary uh standpoint.

Uh I'm curious if you uh what you're expecting out of the uh Qatar visit which I believe is happening in the next 48 hours. Yeah. Like I it one is a cutter. We we've already been talking to the royal family there. Like they they definitely want to get into GPUs. They're they're Have you ever been to Cutter by the way?

It's so it's you have you have? Yeah. Briefly. It's it's absolutely bizarre. It's a imagine like the largest country club in the world as a country and there's like everything is clean and well done but like in the street and you're walking it's mostly just like servants and there's like no people.

It's like it's very weird. Um and they have so much money. It's it's they they they even build like the cutteries, right? There's only I think 300,000 total citizens and the total number of like the broader servant class is like around 3 million uh in the actual city.

Uh but they're so wealthy they have they they do these um you know sand duning thing uh which I went to go do and they build these homes in the middle of the desert like these massive camps and they just like have these $100,000 uh they just going up and down sand dunes all over the place and there's like these huge encampments like they have so much money.

It's awesome.

uh and they're they're trying to get into uh power and energy is related to data centers but that but there is a there's a tricky problem which is that they have a habit of of being anti-israeli uh obviously something happened with Benji and Trump nobody really knows something happened uh you know Benji cannot be the most friendly uh you know person to deal with sure so something happened there but the cutteries like to think of themselves as like the Switzerland of the region in reality they're just more pro Iran and pro pro- al Qaeda.

Um and and so that that's a that's a the the one thing I'll never underestimate is that the ultimate goal of every Trump, you know, conversation is a deal. That's what he loves. He loves deals. And and so us being particular hawkish on any type of country, I think is kind of not who we voted for.

It's we voted for somebody to make deals for America. And if that includes a jet, which I don't know if it does or not. I I heard it was. It was not going to include Yeah. Yeah. It was a new S747 or something like that. Yeah.

Just it seems like a rumor at this point like no one really knows one way or another what's happening with that. But it's an interesting story certainly. Yeah. I I had no problem like he went to go see Kimcha Nun like whatever the No, I completely agree with this. That's a great take. Yeah.

So like I have no problem meeting with people and if that means more I want them to be more pro-Israeli and I want them to they release the last American that's a win for our country. Yep. And and that that's what I voted I I voted for Trump and I wanted him to do deals.

I wanted him to break the mold, reset relationships, and make it more pro and create more allies, like swing more people to our camp, like regardless of the history, uh figure out how to how to do deals and and build more allies in the American sphere.

Uh I want to talk about the learning curve, uh Huawei versus Nvidia specifically. Uh is that a dynamic here with uh pushing Nvidia chips abroad? uh is there is there value from actually advancing the technology staying on the cutting edge just by increasing the volume of shipments and manufacturing?

We've obviously seen this with TSMC on the learning curve. Um but uh but what is your take on the Huawei Ascend versus Nvidia Hopper Blackwell kind of uh uh fight that's that's unraveling right now? It Americans need to realize that like like lethography is not like a white technology.

It's not like white people like own it, right? It's a technology math. It's available to anybody that can work on it. Sure. And their their ability. Yes. It's not TSMC level. Stretch. They're probably at 5 nmter. They're more likely at seven, but probably stretch at five. TSMC is at two.

It's about to go to like uh you know 1. 5, I think, or something to that effect. Um but but the thing you don't ever underestimate is that China from a from a supply chain perspective is it's almost completely sovereign.

Not only do they dominate rare earths, uh, but they have the entire manufacturing infrastructure to make Huawei. Yep. And and that is a type of competitive advantage that we don't have. Yep.

And and so now again, like it doesn't mean we become central planners and like drift into, you know, Linius or Trosky thinking that like, oh, we should just centrally plan this entire thing. Like that's not my view. I view comparative advantage. It works.

like as as Jordy was saying like all of a sudden liberals remember that Adam Smith exists and and you know that TDS has benefits right is it it pushes people to because it's because it's not a philosophy it's a it's a it's a psychosis so yeah yeah so it doesn't have an orientation it's just not that big y uh but but you know like we we have the ability to to win because we still are the best but but they're just going to take a different approach like they're going to take advantage of their their power they're going to take advantage of the fact they move fast and they're cheap.

But a new AI button row initiative has already started. They're already around the world. We know this.

We see them at, you know, different data centers that we work with selling their stuff and it comes as a fully complete solution with deepseek open like a manis models combined with infrastructure combined with support. Manis has has that kind of distribution already.

No, like Huawei is designing for their their their open source ecosystem. So Huawei is being the hands of Pete out there building. I think what Joy's asking is like, have you ever run into a country that's not China?

That's like, yeah, we're we have Huawei Ascend and then we have Deepseek and then we have Manis because Manis came out of nowhere just a couple months ago. Feels like that would be a very quick ramp to be like it's deployed in another country as a part of the AI belt and road initiative. Deepse I can believe Manis.

So yeah, give give us the update on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's deploy like DeepS and Manis are everywhere in Europe like they're they're everywhere and again it's open source it it open source works as a distribution strategy they're not open source because they give they kind of carers they don't care about open source they care about defeating us and and and so the the approach that this is why uh OpenAI made that announcement of we're going to do like this combined deployments of software plus like infrastructure is because that's they're mimicking what China's doing u but but the proliferation of the open source models go look at open router like you can just see the growth in other models.

Those other models are Chinese. So, so it it's a it's a race that actually is legitimately an arms race where there's not much of a uh like like what is the ceiling, right? Like if if we have to kind of think of it as imagine your multiple countries that someone invented a new technology like the nuclear weapon. Mhm.

Like you're the reason why UK, France, Israel, uh USSR, India basic proliferation that happened was because America said no, we're not going to give you any intel even though we promised by by treaty actually that the UK and France would have our intel after Oppenheimer did what he did.

And then that's what started the race is like okay well we can't just have America have it.

we need to have it right and so what is the actual break point at which all of it stops it's like how do you it's like it's like it's a kind of different it's not an economic question right it's it's a question uh and that's why the the Gulf region announcements are really exciting is because fundamentally that region is going to serve Europe it's probably not going to serve America it's really going to serve Europe because they can say all they want they want to build this many data centers or whatever but that trying to make the EU do anything is is is you know it's trying to convince an OP peace person to stop eating.

They rather just use ompic. Like it it it's not going to go anywhere. Like they they they need some sort of like injection to finally do something. And the the Middle East region and Gulf region is just really good at this stuff. They're good at real estate, building power, deploying crap.

And uh and in the airlines world, that market is dominated by Europeans. Europeans use Emirates and cutter to fly to Asia to fly throughout the region. I think it's going to be really similar. So, we're able to dominate Europe through those those relationships.

But, but if we're if we weren't going to do it, my guess is like a year or two, Huawei would have some big announcement of doing with probably Qatar, probably the country I think of first. U maybe Kuwait.

Um, but but yeah, and we still have to lead, but we have to realize that Huawei is going to make inroads and places that we have decided to not and we just have to accept that we can't stop. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think of another like what um how did the how did the Manis investment from Benchmark sit with you?

Uh a lot of people that are a lot of people have pretty much everybody and Spiruhov are upset about it. Yeah, everybody's got an opinion on it. Uh but there's varying uh a lot of new comments actually. I I think everyone has an opinion but not everyone's willing to share them. A lot of people have Why not share it?

because of like competitive dynamics and benchmark. They don't necessarily want to talk if you're competing another firm. Yeah. And I think that's the right stance generally for the most part. Yeah.

But we I mean no I mean I mean I don't care like we could free change if if if they want to do that that's the prerogative. If Treasure Department wants to you know go after that investment as I told me they're going to that's their decision like is this a free market free exchange of ideas.

I believe your capital is your capital and if you want to deploy it to a Chinese model then would I question your patriotism probably but you know it's your right to do that and and it it doesn't need to go much farther than that but Vanis has serious adoption and we should think of it as I think that's a maybe benchmark would think about it is like you know one that they're going to create you know a Tik Tok style like relationship that's not real all that stuff is a figment of our imagination think it actually matters to Chinese it doesn't but it's that that's just an excuse the reality is they they want to win.

They want to make money. And in some respects, I understand that and we're capitalists here. Uh and in other respects, it you had to think about it from the the patriotism perspective of like we're not really interested in it's one thing to like maybe even allow GPUs to be sold there, which is going to happen.

And by the way, uh GPUs are all the trade deals include GPUs, man. Like to think that that we're really that serious about like we don't want them to have infrastructure, right? It's like it's it's it's total baloney. like they it's such an easy give for the administration. We're the best.

We want to make a crap ton of money. Uh we like that Nvidia is rebuilding here. It's an easy give. It's not it's not it's not even hard to to debate over. It's like, "Oh, you want that? Sure. Now give me reduction of fentanyl, right? Give me um you know uh stop tariffing autoimp imports by 100%.

" Like that's the stuff they really care about. So this is just an easy win. uh but but there will be a uh like a separation is happening to where China clearly is embracing and winning open source.

They will have comparable advantage uh sorry a a at least a reasonable alternative on Huawei probably in like 12 months which will basically be like an H100ish uh and it'll be cheap, large scale, easy to install, all open source.

Uh so the the next phase if we want to actually win China is what the Trump administration is doing now which is trusted proliferation. The second phase is like we got to get serious about open source and we have to be we have to be very intentional that the closed model thing is just not going to work.

It's it's it's not a it's not a serious durable mode. I think most investors would probably agree with that. Now it's a myriad of models approach. Y uh and we we have to be in this game. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if if uh we have the best infrastructure in the world.

If the LLM themselves are all caught behind closed door, we're just never going to reach this traction. We're just never going to reach this level adoption and there there are so many levels of advantage China has on open source right now. Uh that we have to What are you What are you expecting from deepseek R2?

We've been we just asked the the prime intellect CEO that he had his own take. What are you expecting? I think it'll be uh the rumor is like mostly on Huawei. I haven't validated that. That's the rumor I keep hearing. Uh it probably again will be very good. Uh because this is accessible. This is math.

It's open research. It's uh it's like physics. It's like it's like thinking that we can control physics. Like if physics is available to everybody uh to explore and discover, uh I think it'll be very good. I think I think it's a Quinn 3. 5 was very good. Y and Maners had an update again.

It it shows that unless we heavily invest with I guess you know Gemini or or or Llama to really like up their game that Europe's going to continue to use that the Middle East continue to use it. Y um and it just is what it is. Like we can't stop people from doing this stuff. Uh it's available to everybody. Yeah.

So I mean walk me through this hypothetical scenario where uh let's just use like Switzerland as an example or something like Switzerland uh wants to control their own AI for their own population. So they build SwissGPT. com and every Swiss citizen is going there as the front end to their AI experience.

Uh and but that in one scenario you know that is run on airgapped Huawei Ascend data centers running deepseek and manis to actually do the computation but the data is not being excfiltrated. Uh what is the risk there?

Is it it just that we're losing the power from selling into Swiss Swiss the Switzerland market or or is are we worried about some sort of like Manurion candidate in the weights shifting the minds of the Swiss population or something like that? Like what what what is the risk of the power occurring in that scenario?

I mean I mean I I don't really worry much about like everyone knows what happens in 1989 like you don't need your tan score happened. It's not them when Deep Secret has deleted itself. Like everybody knows, right? It's very obvious.

Uh like, you know, is President Xi, you know, Winnie the Pooh would possibly be like, you know, we don't really know, right? He did he did disappear for six months after COVID. So maybe he's Winnie Winnie the Pooh in in a like little outfit.

So uh yeah, like the the the issue with the I what I believe about Sovereign AI is that most of the content internet is American English. Yep. I think the estimates are like 70%. Yep. Uh so that's most of the training data. Although if you look at the proprietary data, what does that mean? I just did it.

70% of the internet is American. Let's go. We're just excited about that. The the uh uh so so they they so think like sovereign AI, what is the data that they're going to be training on? Yeah. And because if the internet is American English, it's our slang.

It's our, you know, it's our the second is Spanish and the third is is Mandarin. Yep. It's it's actually government documents. That is how most people are training the governments are training their own subset sovereign AI legal cases. It's law, right? And none of that crap is going to Amazon.

None of that crap is going like they're they they're going to build that to to their liking. So then okay, what is the end end use case?

I one is that it most of this is mutual surge destruction sort of frameworks that if Switzerland doesn't do it then maybe Austria does and if Austria does it they have a leverage of Switzerland so like well I can't have that so I have to do that think of it as um uh you watch show billions I love that show so Axar Rod right everything he thought about was like both him it's like it's like two lanes of thought it's like him winning and him not being owned by one of his competitors and that's the way GPUs and AI works is It's like I'm thinking of it from the perspective like sure there's an advantage to my my country like I doing the investment but most of it is just like I want to screw over that other person and in in investing like traders today they're doing GPUs AI stuff not necessarily because necessary has a return today because they're trying to figure out is someone going to screw over me somehow because when you when you put something into an LLM it's immediately uh uh everywhere right like anything now like private information is even more valuable than ever before because LM make information so accessible and can substantiate content even easier and and so private information becomes significantly more valuable.

And so how Switzerland would deploy that in my view would be basically spying on other people to uh providing an alternative within its own government about like how to actually use LLM internally.

Uh, and so it the the I I think we as Americans need to just kind of stay take a step back and realize that not everything the world does has to make money. People just kind of do stuff sometimes because they think they should do it. And and how we as Americans, we don't really get that.

Like it's hard for us to kind of put our hands around. So commercial. U Exactly. is like like the we're so far away from Reagan where we just uh built crap because we're like Soviet Union could do this to us, so we're just going to do it. Yeah. We're so far away and we're we're so dominant for so long that we're lazy.

We're we're we're self-absorbed lazy people who think that Pope Leo had, you know, is a Chicago Democrat. It's a I'm not a Catholic, but he's certainly not. And like, oh, he said this about immigration. I'm like, do you know anything about Catholic doctrine? Like, do you read anything?

Like do you don't like it if it's we and what I mean by that was we define so much international dialogue by America's framework when the world doesn't work that way. Yeah. Yeah. Uh real quick I want to have a couple couple more questions and then we have a a pretty hard stop here.

But uh who is going to be the American open-source AI frontr runner? Uh XAI did an open release of Grock one. Open AI is planning to have some strategy around open source. Uh do you have any type of do you have any expectations here? I I don't think it'll be open AI.

I think it's either going to be Zuck, Elon, or somebody else that we just don't know about yet. Yeah. Cool. Uh last one.

Uh, do you expect to be satisfied when a Tik Tok deal gets announced or extremely disappointed because the rumors that we've heard so far are that uh it doesn't necessarily get at the rumors of the inference. What's wrong with that? The inference is the important part, right? Yeah, that that's a good question.

Uh, so do I think it's propaganda? Oh, absolutely. Do I think it matters in terms of the trajectory of our culture? No. Like like creating blaming Chinese boogeyman but like on the fact that our kids are lazy and stupid is is asinine.

It's it's classic like white guilt sort of ducking Freudian frameworks and like the reason why it's actually you know like your kids will actually be fine. They're leaning very heavily libertarian, so they're actually good. This kind of like late millennial, because I'm I'm a midlife millennial, so I'm more Gen Xer.

So this kind of like late millennial and early nextgen, uh, that are very Marxist in their kind of like frameworks and they've been told things about there were objectively lies about our country, about how like life works and success works.

And yeah, I feel bad for them like because they were told things that were not true. Uh but like saying that oh the reason why you know Chinese kids are doing math is because Tik Tok like encourages math is is is pretty stupid.

Like it's like it's like no just like no my my frustration was uh you know if you're if you're in the middle of an ideological war trade war you know sort of great power conflict we're not you know multi-olar is not possible. It's just sort of like the US or or nothing.

Uh why would you allow your adversary to own what is effectively like the one of the largest news channels into the US population? And why would you kind of ignore that, right? Because even even Yeah. getting uh you know delivering brain brain rot like Americans are going to get brain rot from somewhere, right?

They have an insatable brain. I'd prefer to be No, I'd prefer to be an American made brain. No, but the but the you know, you know, the these platforms do influence public opinion and and but anyways, probably a longer conversation.

We'll have you back on when the news gets announced and um always a pleasure, have a good day. God bless, guys. Talk to you soon. Cheers. I want a hat. Jordy will want a hat. Oh, I got you. I got I got you. You get a jacket, too. You're going to get the full You get the full set. You're going to get the full set.

Thanks, Aaron. Great chatting. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Find your happy place. Find your happy place. Book a wander with inspiring views, hotel grade amenities, dreamy beds, top tier cleaning, 247 concier service. It's a vacation home, but better, folks. Also, head over to getbzzle. com.

Your bezel concierge is available now to source any watch on the planet. Seriously, any watch. And our next guest is Dan Gray. I have been following him for just a few days, but I wanted to have him on the show.

uh he's put out some fantastic posts about uh venture capital market dynamics and I thought it'd be interesting to have him on the show and pick his brain and have him break down what he's seeing in the venture capital markets.

I want to talk to him about large scale up VCs, the cradown in the angel and seed market, all the fun dynamics. So, welcome to the show. Dan,