Cluely founder Roy Lee on his $15M raise, BCI ambitions, and building a viral AI product

They're doing everything over there. Uh thank you so much for stopping by. We'll talk to you soon. Cheers. Bye. Next up, we have Roy from Cluey, the man himself. Third time in the studio, third time on TBPN. Welcome to the stream that ready. Let's bring him in. Let's hope he's ready. Roy, give us the news.

Give us the headline number. How are you doing? How much did you raise? 15 million [ __ ] dollars. Clean hit. Clean hit. Um, congratulations. Uh, why'd you raise money? I thought you were printing so much money. You didn't need to raise ever. What happened? We're printing money, but we need more money.

We're trying every single day. We're looking for things to spend money on. Okay. Okay. Uh, uses of the funds. Uh, what are you going to spend on first? 14 million for brain computer interface development. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. We We have whatever you thought the viral content you thought this was cool, bro.

We're doing 10x this. Okay. More videographers, more more after more editors, more engineers, more everything, please. Moss. Moss. Yes. Let's go. Yeah. What's the morning routine like now over at CL? Everybody wakes up and we swipe on Hinge for 30 minutes. is mandatory.

Everyone swipes on Tik Tok, Instagram for an hour just to make sure the viral senses are refreshed. And we we uh we we all do cold plunges and we're we're ready to hit the day with um with caffeine. If you if you cold plunge though, does it negate like the the brain rot?

Like do you get to or is that is that intentional of like relocking like you know we we we we scroll to keep our viral sense up, but after that is is time to get to work. We're a serious company, you know. We're not just we're not just trolling over here. Okay, that's good to hear.

Uh, talk to me about the Hinge use case. I want to hear uh Clue's desktop app, you're not in the app store. If I'm if someone's using Hinge on their phone, how are they gonna take advantage of Cluey now or in the future? I mean, every single time you screenshot something and ask Chatbt anything.

I mean, like this entire use case like it is ridiculous that I have to do this like AI can already take the context of your screen and audio and and and and give you information out of it. Why can chatb. com not use this? Why is the main AI use case not already aware of what's going on on your screen?

We think this is crazy. Yes, but it's but but it's locked down for privacy reasons on the iPhone.

So the question is like what user interface innovation are you going to bring to bear on the phone so that you can actually unlock the vast majority of consu consumers who are realistically not using the most popular consumer apps on their desktop.

I would I would push back on whether we even have to enter the phone at all. really the technology is growing so fast. We might just be able to skip phone entirely. We might be able to skip classes entirely and like like whatever it is, I think the technology is growing super fast.

Like like I think phone like in five years, I would question whether phone is the dominant consumer use case. Okay. Uh I I I I get that you're BCI pill. It still feels a few years out. The meta-bands feel very much here today. Uh have you looked into those APIs?

How developer friendly is the Meta Rayband ecosystem versus the iOS ecosystem versus the MacBook Pro ecosystem, which seems to be where you're flourishing right now. I feel like you're going to have a really hard time on iOS.

Uh no matter how cracked your engineers are, Apple is just going to say I think I think Roy, if anybody can cook Cook, I I I won't I won't put it past you, but it feels like the Meta Rayband ecosystem might be a little bit more open. What are what's your read on the Meta Ray-B band or the Meta glasses roll out?

They just had an announcement this today. My read is that there is way more money in an all-in desktop assistant than people actually think. There's maybe two, three competitors in this, maybe maybe two, three competitors who are actually trying to take a meaningful stab at a desktop assistant.

And there's way more money and way more value in this than people think. We're still going to be using computers in a few years. Maybe we'll be using something else. But like like enterp bro these sales Oracle, Adobe these guys move slow as [ __ ] bro. Like they will be using Blackberry still, bro.

Like they are moving slow. We're going to have computers unlock a bunch of enterprise value for the next few years and we'll be here to capture all that. Yeah.

So I mean I I I get that the it I mean it feels like this is going towards uh enterprise note takingaking, enterprise assistant and and and would have a very positive. Yes, you use the cheat on your technical interview as like a viral hook, but you know, we're we're having our intern demo cluey today.

And you could see that if we're on a call, just having answers be pulled up ambiently is valuable. There's obviously a bunch of, you know, bots that plug in and listen and record your emails, but being more proactive seems like a step forward. Uh, it begs the question, why are you in the consumer group in Andre?

I guess that there still is a consumer angle long term, but how are you seeing Cluey users adopt the product? It feels like the logical cases at work on the desktop. Yeah. Well, of of I mean the question is how are Clue users using the product? Yes. Most people it is most helpful in a meeting.

Right now there's no product on the tool that gives you live assistance during a meeting. That's where all the proumer and enterprise values mo most proumer and enterprise value is being derived. Other than that, you're the gigantic consumer. The most viral use case ever of literally cheating, bro.

Like, like like answers you questions and like what even when you're doing homework. I mean, like just immediate, bro. Like, you do all your homework instantly when you're doing quizzes, assignments, when you're watching lectures, bro. Immediate, bro. Just immediate help. Immediate on site. Um, yeah.

Got to give a shout out to the whole team. We we we were reviewing Cluey throughout the show today. We're pretty impressed with with the product. Um, I think a lot of people that are yapping on the timeline, haven't tried it yet.

And I think anytime going forward somebody leaves a negative comment, just say, "Hey, totally understand how you might think that. Why don't you just use the product for 5 10 hours and then come back and let me know if you feel the same way? Get a user out of it. " Uh, talk about the process for for the round.

You you did you you raised a seed round not very long ago. You know, did this come inbound? I will say right now to all the VCs watching, if you ever are trying to get a round, you get me an email thread and you say, "Hey, let me loop in my assistant and we'll schedule a call in two weeks.

You are not getting allocation and I'll rig up every single one of my friends to make sure you don't get allocation. " Bro, these rounds move so [ __ ] quick. You don't have too much. Your whole job is to find the alpha and invest quick and early. Why are you looping an assistant in two weeks?

My partners Brian and Eric, they came with steaks and Coke Zeros to the house direct. stakes are coke zero guys. This is how investors need to be. Your job is to find the [ __ ] album, bro. Why are you looping in this? There was a there was a preempt and I think all rounds you need to preempt the [ __ ] [ __ ] bro.

Preempted founders. If you're not getting preempted, just shut your company down. Even if you're running out of money, if you're not getting preempted, just shut the company down. Shut the company down. That's great. These rounds are going so quick. Companies grow so fast.

VCs don't have two weeks to loop in your system. Okay. Uh, what is your underlying motivation for building this company? I want to be conqueror of the [ __ ] universe. It is so obvious that AI is going to massively expand what is capable.

And I think like in even in 5 10 years, bro, if we keep growing at this rate, like we'll be on the next ship to Mars, we'll all be living at 400 years old and I'll be jacked till like die. And in that universe, bro, like these companies will converge into super companies.

And these super companies is going to be me versus Elon vers competing to be guardian of the [ __ ] galaxy, bro. I'm I'm going to be on top. Okay. Sounds like you're power hungry. Uh there's been a criticism which can be a strength. A strength.

Uh the uh there's clearly a subweet about you going around on X uh arguing that you are driven by fame, not greed or idealism. Uh is that true? To what degree are you motivated by fame specifically?

The only two things that I really care about in my life are working on is working on something that I find interesting and getting the work seen by people of Elon Musk. These are my inspirations. Like these people are known by every living conscious human being in the world, man. This guy founded Apple.

This guy did Tesla, bro. Like it's it's the coolest [ __ ] ever. 4,000 years ago, bro, you wanted to hunt big [ __ ] woolly mammoths and bring back the tribe. There's no more woolly mammoths. There's only startups. Okay. So, so you're not beating the allegation.

Wait, wait, but but but the more precisely uh if if the best path for Cluey forward is your interns getting up getting tons of social media views, you step out of the limelight because you're managing the company. People know Cluey, but they don't know Roy Lee. Is that still a win for you?

Of course, at one point the company becomes undistinguishable from the founder. What happened with every single big company and it's what is what what will happen with Clue?

Yeah, it's just it's just a unique situation because we we know of Palmer Lucky because of Oculus the product and many people know of Cluey because of you and the and the viral stunts that you've pulled and so you're kind of inverting it and the and the question that the the haters are asking of you is that is this is the long-term goal to build a great product or to build the brand of Roy Lee.

Bro, of it is to change the world in a meaningful way and you don't change the world by going viral a million times. You change the world by genuinely building a worldchanging product. Technology changes the world. I will I will build great technology and every person in the world will watch me do it. Okay. Amazing.

How how big are you going on the content side? Do you want to get a single video with a 100 million views? Are you are you going that big? Is that is that kind of the wrong framework to think about it? But but I but I imagine you're going to have more, you know, budget than ever.

and and you know it's easy now to get a million views on X on a video uh is is a 100 million views on YouTube the next you know uh challenge I will tell you right now and this might be the the most logical thing I I say on here but the biggest societal shift in maybe human history happened about five years ago when Tik Tok surpassed YouTube in terms of like virality and usage.

All of a sudden, the number of content creators stayed the same and the relative number of content being created stayed the same, whereas the quantity of content being consumed about 100x.

As a result, there is this gigantic gap where there is not enough viral content for people to consume, which is why you see the same subway surfers overlaid on a Reddit store. You see that a hundred times because there's literally not enough good content out there for the next maybe six months to a year.

Anything you post that has the potential to go viral will go viral. Which is why you see our marketing team is all influencers with viral sense. We know we independently all have 20 ideas a day that we know will go viral. And this extrapolated out over a year will literally generate a billion views a month.

And if you're someone who thinks a billion views a month is not going to convert to to some money like bro you're [ __ ] bro. Go back to school, bro. Uh a billion views a month. Is that is that like will you run into a cap? Is there a set market size that you will saturate and then we'll be seeing Super Bowl ads?

I have no idea. But I'll tell you right now, like like Super Bowl ads, it's it's it's all old. Like this is the old meta. The new meta is in content is in short form. And nobody seems to have captured the the gigantic delta in generating more viral content.

I still think it'd be funny if you forced 127 million people, the number of people that watch the Super Bowl to just watch a video of you saying, "Hello, I'm Roy Lee. I encourage you to go to clue. com and sign up for Cluey today. " So don't count it out. Uh but uh anything else you want to share while you're here?

I know it's a big day for you. The timeline's blown up. You you uh not very many people have the stones to to launch a series A on a Friday, a summer Friday to go headtohead against Meera, too. Yeah. Yeah. And you pulled it off. Again, I think people worry too much about the little things.

In reality, if you post something that deserves to go viral, you will 100% go viral. And this will only be true for maybe the next few years, maybe. And I encourage more people to post. Most businesses will die not because the product sucks but because you can't get enough eyeballs.

And I think we if we win if and when we win we will show to the world that there needs to be a fundamental difference in how companies are built. You start with distribution and eyeballs because right now that is where the gigantic delta is. And if you can't have then you stick with us stick with us for a minute.

I want to play your uh fundraising video live on the stream and then if we have any questions from that I want to ask you please. So let's play that video. Mr. Lee, Columbia University has found you guilty of academic integrity violations. Do you have anything to say? Color grade.

I've already apologized to school, but to be honest, in 2 years, nobody's going to think this is cheating. Yo, the Andrea wire just hit. You think it can last us through the summer? Oh, welcome to Clue. Great video. Great video. Congratulations. Banger. I got to hit the gong again. Very well done.

Very well done and beautiful. Beautifully shot. Like the lighting. I mean the cinematography you have on very very good very very good nailed it. Uh anything else for Roy that's it for now in house studio. It's crazy that you can shoot that in-house. That that that really is remarkable. Congratulations.

We are excited to follow [ __ ] We just got $15 million. Oh yeah. Tell us about the fundraising leak. What's your deal with R for Rock? Were you able to How much do you have to pay him to shut up? Man, I I was I was begging him. You guys have no idea.

For the last few weeks, I've been begging this man, please do not leak. Why? Why? I feel like I feel like it already leaked separately and like having I feel like you would be leaning into a leak. I was expecting like a collab almost.

I think what whatever leak there could possibly be, I have very strong faith in my ability to make my announcement go more viral. Oh, sure. This video will go more viral than any leak would have, even if I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You actually don't want to take the gas out of the out of the tank. I love it.

Uh thank you so much for stopping by. This is fantastic and good luck. Congratulations to you and the team. Excited to watch you guys cook this summer. And hopefully the 15 mil makes it, you know, back. You know, August, just remember August, it's going to be hard to get the autoresponders will be on.

It's going to be hard to be, you know, get those 24-hour meetings. Uh and so just make sure you got the runway to September. And this comes IPO underwriters do not preempt. So at some point you will have to stop with the preempt everything mantra.

I don't know there's some spack sponsors out there that who knows maybe yeah maybe you'll get preempt spack in the fall. You know I wouldn't be I wouldn't be surprised. So you're you're saying it as a joke. I I feel like it might be in the cards. Uh we're we're we're going to be tracking it.

Thank you so much for stopping by. Awesome. Great chatting with you. We'll talk to you later. Talk soon. Bye. Wow. Uh what a sensational run for Roy Lee. I'm I'm I'm very excited for him. just getting started too.

Uh and uh I won't I won't dox any uh any particular names but uh Roy Lee is the most controversial guest within my family group chat. Uh very very divisive part of my family absolutely loves him and is like he is a national treasure and another member of my family is like I cannot stand this guy which is why it's good.

The internet loves people that are you know divisive.

But I did I did I I I feel like uh this was like a more serious interview and I feel like we broke through a little bit more and and obviously like there is the idea of Roy Lee the character who is who can play a character that can go viral and there is the Roy Lee who is like an entrepreneur the man and we got a little bit through and you know I'm fine with either showing up.

I'm I'm actually fine to do an interview with the character and have fun on the stream. I'm also interested to talk to him, you know, as just a person who's building a company. And I think we got a little bit of both. Uh, still, you know, lots of uncertainty. It's an early stage company, but, uh, I'm I'm rooting for