Morgan Housel on honest marketing, the newsletter trap, and why AI-generated content can't replace human writing

waiting room. We have Sarah from Cultured Magazine. She's the founder and the editor and chief of Cultured Magazine. Let's bring her in to the

I hope you don't mind the holiday music. We're having a lot of fun here today.

We're in the holiday spirit.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. There's a bit of a lag. It's a bit disorienting.

Oh, I'm sorry. Um, well, hopefully we can hopefully you can hear us. Okay. I would love to just kick off

everybody. Can you hear me? Okay.

Yes. Yes, we can hear you just fine. Uh, hopefully you could kick us off with a little bit of an introduction on yourself since it's the first time on your show. Uh, tell us about uh, Cultured and um, and kind of your journey a little bit. That'd be great.

Gosh, where should I start? So, Cultured is uh, a uh, media company. uh we cover kind of everything under the creative umbrella

with a with a strong focus on the contemporary arts. So cover, you know, film and theater and literature. Um, and kind of look at everything through the lens of does it intersect with contemporary art. Um, and you know, if so, how? And kind of try to have a holistic approach to all of the content.

And, uh, I mean, uh, I I I would love to know your take on uh on Netflix and Warner Brothers if you have one. Uh, we we've just been going through all the different uh all the different IP there. I don't know if anything sticks out to you.

I don't know. I was in LA over the weekend and of course everyone was talking about it, you know. I I don't know. I mean, it's it's concerning on a on many levels. Um, do you think it's going to do you think it's going to go through fully or

I mean, Warner Brothers Discovery is definitely going somewhere. That seems clear. Uh, we're I don't know. Where do you stand on it? I think it probably lands with Netflix because there's just so much competition from YouTube. so much competition. Netflix has what, like 300 million subscribers now. I mean, they're the clear streaming winner.

Yeah. And so, even though, yes, it is consolidation, it's not a monopoly because people watch YouTube, they watch Instagram, they watch shows like this. We're not we're not on a network and we don't need to be. And so, uh, it still feels like, uh, no one's going to look, you know, a year or two from now, no one's going to be like, "Oh, yeah, Hollywood isn't competitive anymore." Like, no, it's Hollywood's extremely cutthroat. It's going to remain cutthroat. It's going to remain

even more cutthroat

potentially which means it's hard to block. I think a lot of people are so latched on to the past and we've uh

yeah, it feels like I mean we're we're we're based in Hollywood and so there's a lot of people that are that are uh still have tied their careers to like the old Hollywood and the way things were were done in the past. And it's just notable that like it's never been easier to just create content and create uh like when I when I think about Warner Warner Warner Brothers, it's like there's a bunch of like cartoon IP. It's like if you're mad about consolidation and you're a creative person, just make more make a cartoon. Make a new cartoon. Just make make things, right? I I uh the the frustration that people have when they're like, "Oh, this is going to this is going to hurt." Um uh I

theaters.

Yeah. The theater thing I The thing

theaters I think are already hurt, right? I think there is that sense of nostalgia and I think there is that slice of Hollywood that is rooted in that. Um, but I agree. Of course, there's no there's never been a time where there's been more channels, but it's still it's almost like there are certainly more channels to reach people, but it's also harder to reach people.

Yeah. Yeah. The there's something there's some interesting uh like ratio if you were trying to quantify it of like how much attention something gets relative to the the the revenue or the market cap or the value. Like uh theaters are they feel so culturally important. They feel such so everyone has a story or memory of their childhood going to the theater such an experience and yet I think the actual total revenue of of you know all the movie theaters in America is like a fraction of what video games make in a month you know like video the video game industry is like way way bigger or like the social media industry will be so so much bigger like a thousand times bigger um and so but but there's something where just just the legacy has broken through to such a degree that even though it hasn't been a big business in decades and it's smaller than ever, uh it's still culturally extremely relevant and so it's hard

and I think creatively extremely relevant.

Totally. Totally.

You know, I think I think filmmakers want us to see their movies mostly on the big screen.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think if you look at it just from a revenue standpoint, of course, I mean, like you said, it's probably been decades since there's been a shift, but I do think that there is still something

uh nostalgic and important about seeing certain things in theaters. I mean, there's still movies that people say, and I mean, obviously, you know, the filmmakers are often fighting for it to have the release first in a theater.

Yeah.

Granted, maybe they're all over 40, but still.

Yeah. I do wonder. I mean, I I wonder what the next generation will even look like if they'll they'll want to go to theaters. Like, we have a friend uh um Jason Carman, who's very much of the young and of the new new age, uh new creative organization, makes movies, but also makes short films and documentaries and all sorts of stuff. And he still definitely wants to release his films in theaters. He has. He's figured out ways to do that. Um, but uh I I I wonder I wonder how much that's at the same time we're friends with like Adam Faze.

I think we need new It's such an interesting time because like theater the theater business has been in decline and yet I think we need new theaters. Like we need

they're trying that. I think I don't know if that's working. You mean kind of like it a certain experience or something? Well, if I uh I think last time I went and saw a movie was with John and we got like 20 of our friends together to go see Dune. Uh I think

and like the actual experience of being in a theater under these like you go from being under like bright LEDs in a mall, which I don't go to malls

and I'm in bright LEDs and I don't like the smell of movie theater popcorn personally. It just I'm like that smells like poison. I don't want it. Uh, and then you go and uh, and so the whole experience for me is like, yeah, I'm never going to I'm never going to do that. But if you if you built a theater from the ground up as in an opinionated way, like some type of like almost treating it like a true hospitality experience, there's probably a much better chance that I would go. Not not certain that there's a real business there yet, but maybe there hasn't been enough attempts there.

The Among Giri of theaters, it's like two grand per ticket. That's the way they do it. to take over. Yeah.

I mean, that somewhat happened in my town. In my town, uh there's there used to be two theaters where you'd sit like shoulder-to-shoulder with everyone. And now both of those theaters have way down scope the number of seats. The seats are huge. They serve you dinner, there's wine, there's drinks, and like they're trying to get 500 bucks out of you or 200 bucks out of you. You're not going in on a matinea $10 with like cheap popcorn and getting out of there. They they want to monetize it like it's a restaurant because it's a lot of physical space. Like the square footage is a lot.

But basically, I mean, someone was just telling me that the theaters really are only still in New York and LA.

Oh, really?

Yeah. I mean, I was thinking the opposite, frankly. I thought, okay, towns, but someone said, "No, you can't even go to a movie theater in a small town anymore.

They've all closed." Wow. It's rough.

This is someone told me.

What?

Well, let's uh I'd love to I'd love to talk about the the art just the art market. Obviously Miami has gotten a lot of attention over the last week or so. Uh

for the people.

Yeah. And

going viral again. He's still going. He went viral a couple years ago.

Well, yeah. I'm particularly excited to get your opinion because every now you keep I I've been seeing some headlines recently where it's like the art market is back and then I talk to people that are actually working in art and they're like it's absolutely not back. Uh, and so I think there's somewhat of a a disconnect where maybe there's like a effort to like tell people that it's back, but I don't I don't know if the sales velocity is really there. But, uh, how are you processing things?

Of course, we we have to believe our own hype. I mean, I think that there's been a fundamental shift in the art world. um call it, you know, since 2024 or, you know, I think I think that there's been so many factors that have changed the landscape of the art world. Um certainly has it as it's been in the last 20 or 30 years. I think that look I think sure it it's better, right? Like we had Art Basle Paris, everyone said, "Okay, the art market's back. It's better." Um I think Freeze London had reported strong sales. I spoke to a big gallery uh recently that said that 2025 every single Basel this year was a record for them.

Now of course like anything you take a fair like Art Basle there's 300 galleries. So you can take a really strong year where everyone says the market's on fire and you can find a dealer who didn't do well that year. Um I think that I think the statistic that someone was throwing around and I'm not sure if this is accurate is something like you know total volume of sales is down 10%. Um, I don't know exactly where the art market is. I think that there's definitely been a very serious correction. I think that a correction ultimately yields a lot of positive things in an art market. So, I don't think it's back to the kind of frenzy 800 person waiting list for, you know, a painter 2 years out of Yale that we were in. Um, but I do think that there's some momentum. I think that there's been speaking of some consolidation. There's been um you know some mid-tier even some bigger galleries closing and just you know I think a lot of shifts in the market but I think that Miami was you know net positive for the most people I talked to in sales.

And I think that you still have I mean look I call me optimistic but you still have these collectors who are you know they're not the speculative part of the market. they're not buying an artist because they think that they're going to get a multiple of, you know, 10 or 100. Um, I think I do think, however, that even if the the collector isn't looking to ever sell there, that kind of data sometimes does kind of feed a little bit of a sparkle and an energy. Um, but I do think that there there are collectors who buy in good markets and bad markets. And I think the last, you call it since fall, it's definitely gotten better. Are we back? No. But is it better? Yes.

What's the secret to successfully participating in Art Basil if you're a company or a brand? I I've seen a bunch of selling.

Just selling.

The selling. I mean, you know, as you as you know, it costs them. It's a significant investment, right? They're buying the space. They're shipping the artwork. They're having their team come. You know, they they put, you know, lots of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars behind the fair. So selling the art, which often can be up to $20 million of art, is success.

Mhm. Makes sense.

Uh yeah, it's been

we did an interesting story on the economics of a mid-tier gallery.

Okay. um that published last week that talks a little bit about how when you're not selling $20 million of art, how you get through Miami or how you get through a fair and make the economics work because there's certainly a tipping point in which it works and a tipping point in which sometimes dealers are trying to meet new collectors, show new work and it's financially not viable.

What? Yeah. What are the highest leverage things that a mid-tier gallery can do? Is that stuff like leave some of the art at home and you know more digital representations of the art and uh is is that the cost structure or the cost savings?

Part of it is that a certain gallery might represent like if you represent 20 artists

it's possible that there's ton of demand for two of the artists and almost zero like negative demand like

you have to pay people to take sure uh some of the other stuff. So that that's that's a factor I I think. Uh, but tell me if I'm wrong.

I mean, it depends. Look, I think that not every dealer is just, you know, market driven and there's maybe work that they haven't shown that they want to see how the reaction is or, you know, there's always a surprise of some interest. But yeah, no, it's it's it's financially difficult. I mean, a lot of these a lot of the galleries, you know, it's kind of like I I kind of equate it to emerging artists. You know, there's we all know so many artists who are so successful and so financially successful, but there is that point where, you know, you're just so close to losing money or not quite making it. Um, and that's like a very fine line between the other side and and and leaving, you know, at a loss.

What uh what what tech uh billionaires or tech elite are doing the most for the arts right now? Because I feel like there's historically been a criticism of the tech industry where you have uh people that make a lot of money and then they're just like, I'm just going to spend, you know, hund00 million on anti-aging. I'm not going to fund the next uh uh you know, museum or or uh build a castle or or etc.

I want to do

I don't know if that's entirely true. I think what the

I don't I'm not saying I I'm not saying I I believe it's true, but I'm just saying historically that's like one criticism.

Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I think what a lot of the tech billionaires that I know that have built unbelievable collections have done is not shown their work,

not shown their collections. So, I think a lot of people aren't aware of the level in which some of these tech billionaires are a interested in art and b collect so deeply. Um, so in terms of, you know, underwriting museums or programs, I don't I don't I don't know. I mean, do we need more tech billionaires to buy more art? Of course. And in Yeah, definitely.

This is we're putting we're putting the word out. I'm sure I'm sure that will actually that should catalyze at least at least a few million of of new art purchases for people in our audience that are kind of maybe on the fence about buying.

Not sure. Should I not?

What do you think about what do you think about the sphere? Uh because we we have a general belief that it is

in Vegas.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it just feels like it there was again a criticism that we we forgot how to make beautiful massive we forgot how to make cathedrals

and yet the sphere feels like a it is the most commercial piece of art maybe ever but when you look at it on the skyline in Vegas like this is this is a modern

it's America's Mona Lisa.

Okay, let me say I have never been to the sphere.

Wow. Uncultured. Uncultured. This is unculted uncultured magazine never.

That's what I should really name my magazine. But I have to tell you that I do know a few artists who have been to the sphere who say that's pretty incredible.

Yeah, it is wild. But yes, I mean it's it's it's it's remarkable in like a cyberpunk way. Totally. Not necessarily like a beautiful way. Absolutely. You should absolutely go um to to experience the new canvas that is the the sphere. Uh, no, obviously it is a it is a uh it's a it's a it's a capital.

How do you rate how do you uh how are you processing LA as of late? To me, it's starting to feel like uh Detroit of the West. It feels like uh uh I

No, it just feels like this was a center for art and culture and entertainment and traditional Hollywood has been so battered that it's like the beauty the buildings are less beautiful. Uh it I I think the streets were always dirty. Uh but the restaurants are less full. There's not as many like new great restaurants as I think there there may have once been. Uh it feels somewhat um kind of uh uh in secular decline. Heartbroken too.

I mean, look, I I did open an office in New York this year and uh I've been mostly in New York this year. I I think look, LA is a great city. It's a downturn. I think that's, you know, I think most people that I know that could leave left. Um, someone was saying to me the other day that we're like we're kind of like just postco now with LA and how out of co kind of LA was really all of the sectors and all of the things that you just mentioned were kind of growing on the up and up. There was a lot of energy around it and then after the fires last January things kind of leveled out and I think that you know look we all know it's a great city the energy moves. I think the energy is not there right now.

Um I'm sure it'll come back.

Yeah.

Yeah. I asked uh a good friend of mine uh very controversial figure in the in the art world, Stefan Simquitz.

Oh, I know him well.

I was like, give me

What did he say? He probably said, "Lie's great."

No, no. The example I was like, "Hey, we're we we our lease expires next year. We're looking uh for a new space." And I was like, "Are there any like uh massive amazing art galleries that you think are going to shut down?" And he was like, "I can." He immediately was like, "Here's four." And uh and so again uh uh

are you texting him right now?

No, I didn't text him. Um they're not four. He's he's exaggerating. Um but that's funny.

Well, I think there there's there's a handful because I got offered to tour them. Um but uh

uh any anyways um

I mean look, LA is not known for its collectors.

Sure.

There was a great experiment. I mean, look how many galleries opened in LA post 2020. I mean, I know some dealers who said, "I'm just I'm opening in LA to show great work, not to cultivate more collectors." A lot of the great collectors in LA sometimes buy in New York.

So, I think the fact that LA is having a, let's just say, a more challenging moment and some of the galleries there are closing. Um, I I talked to a few of my friends who have uh great galleries in LA and they said, "Let's not even talk about sales. foot traffic is down.

So,

yeah. And some of the places we've looked at, like you're spending $100,000 a month for a place that doesn't get any foot traffic that is like I mean, when we're when we're visiting, it's like during normal hours and they're just empty. Uh so anyways, definitely correction in in the works, but uh as you said, it can be healthy. So,

um anyways, I wish we had more time. This was super fun. uh any anytime anytime you want the the tech industry to to do something like buy more art, come on the show and but it was uh great great to meet you and um

yeah, nice to meet you. Look forward to talking again soon.

We'll talk to you soon.

Thanks so much.

Cheers.

Merry Christmas.

Uh our next guest is from the General Intelligence Company of New York. He's